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i can just wait for decent subs to come out. it isn't like i have a burning need to watch every kamen rider series RIGHT NOW.
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Jul 7, 2016 01:50
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Serious Frolicking posted:i can just wait for decent subs to come out. it isn't like i have a burning need to watch every kamen rider series RIGHT NOW. Most of them have subs now too! We're missing Faiz, Ryuki, Hibiki, Kiva....is that it for Heisei shows?
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Jul 7, 2016 01:59
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Den-O? edit: And a lot of the old ones, of course.
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Jul 7, 2016 02:04
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Cliff Racer posted:Den-O? Most of the old series are in some stage of being subbed, but of the ones TVN has done there's five left to go. That's ten modern series before you run out of Kamen Rider
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Jul 7, 2016 02:09
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i'm not really into the shows older than kuuga anyway.
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Jul 7, 2016 02:16
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The problem with bad subs is that unless you have knowledge of them the end result is that you're getting wrong characterization and information which can significantly impact how you view a show. Not even OT or whatnot are immune to this because translation a show as it airs means you can miss hints or context you wouldn't necessarily notice but with TVN if it 'looks' right people will take it right even if it literally gets plot info wrong. That is a reason why it is worse than nothing.
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Jul 7, 2016 02:19
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OT has also gone back in batches and tweaked stuff iirc
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Jul 7, 2016 02:22
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Cliff Racer posted:TVN is worse than OT and GUIS but they aren't garbage. If you want to watch a show and can only get TVN subs then go for it. Although, having said that, I should probably warn you that what I've seen was their later pre-OT sentai series, which are apparently of a less cringe-worthy nature than stuff like Faiz and Blade, which were translated a few years previously. Also IIRC they had lovely hard subs too at the time? Back in the day when 90 percent of these series didn't have any subs at all something like TVN was a godsend and they still are for those ones which didn't get scrubbed. I can't speak to their new releases, but again, their Ultraman Nexus subs they literally inverted the meaning of major plot points. That is just the worst.
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Jul 7, 2016 02:27
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ImpAtom posted:The problem with bad subs is that unless you have knowledge of them the end result is that you're getting wrong characterization and information which can significantly impact how you view a show. Not even OT or whatnot are immune to this because translation a show as it airs means you can miss hints or context you wouldn't necessarily notice but with TVN if it 'looks' right people will take it right even if it literally gets plot info wrong. That is a reason why it is worse than nothing. Getting a slightly off version of a show is better than nothing. My personal peeve as far as them "changing stuff" was that adding visual gimmicks to the role-calls and attacks names changed the meaning of them, pumping up fights that were often times just quickie filler and meant to be viewed as such by the audiance. Still better than still waiting on something which I decided to watch years ago to be subbed.
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Jul 7, 2016 03:30
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Blade and Faiz are way more than slightly off though, like they butchered both of those series from what I heard
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Jul 7, 2016 03:31
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Everything in just about the whole last page of posts is why I never come here. Jesus loving christ. Stop making demands of what people download/not download.
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Jul 7, 2016 03:55
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Don't tell us not to try to steer people away from subs that don't actually tell you what's happening from a group that calls translating things cultural whitewashing, if you don't fuckin like it don't read it or change the subject Jesus Christ
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Jul 7, 2016 04:12
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Literally The Worst posted:Don't tell us not to try to steer people away from subs that don't actually tell you what's happening from a group that calls translating things cultural whitewashing, if you don't fuckin like it don't read it or change the subject Jesus Christ The way you talk about it is very obnoxious and it has, among other things, resulted in this thread's OP being lovely and in some ways incomplete.
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Jul 7, 2016 04:35
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Cliff Racer posted:Getting a slightly off version of a show is better than nothing. My personal peeve as far as them "changing stuff" was that adding visual gimmicks to the role-calls and attacks names changed the meaning of them, pumping up fights that were often times just quickie filler and meant to be viewed as such by the audiance. Still better than still waiting on something which I decided to watch years ago to be subbed. It isn't a case of 'slightly off.' They've actively reversed character motivations or ignored very important things. It is, in fact, worse than nothing unless you care more about it sounding right than being right. Like from your description you literally don't care about the show, just that whatever text is below is close enough to readable and sounds right even if it is objectively wrong.
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Jul 7, 2016 04:37
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I want something to watch on TV, see what the characters are saying, and have it actually make sense. If they are off about something that is a shame but its better than not being able to watch at all. I sometimes hear people say that watching raws is preferable but thats bullshit and the fact that almost no-one watches raws of old shows, even in enthusiast communities like this, goes a long way to prove it.
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Jul 7, 2016 04:41
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Cliff Racer posted:I want something to watch on TV, see what the characters are saying, and have it actually make sense. So yes. You don't actually care if what the characters are saying is right, just that it 'makes sense' to you. I mean that's your choice but it means you're being upfront about the fact you don't care about characterization, writing or plot, just that dialogue looks right to you. Most people are probably not going to feel that way and that is why it is recommended they avoid TVN. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Jul 7, 2016 |
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Jul 7, 2016 04:43
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It's fine though, Faiz is truly awful. Second worst rider series ever, great costumes though.
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Jul 7, 2016 04:48
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Cliff Racer posted:The way you talk about it is very obnoxious and it has, among other things, resulted in this thread's OP being lovely and in some ways incomplete. cultural loving whitewashing if not linking to some morons who think that translating shows nthat they are subtitling for people who don't speak japanese is fuckin racism make the OP lovely maybe go make your own toku thread for people who don't actually want to know what's happening in the shows
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Jul 7, 2016 04:54
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here you go everyone it's time to reread it because some moron decidedd it was time for this, the third iteration of the thread, to have the stupid loving tvn discussion for the millionth timequote:So last week some guy was mad at me for some reason in the Gokai 2 release thread. In it, he suggested that the Medals be translated instead of using stuff like Taka and Tora and Batta and stuff. It seemed strange to me, since even if you don't know Japanese, it can't be that confusing to keep track of which Medal goes with which animal. this is the garbage you're defending.
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Jul 7, 2016 04:55
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"why aren't you linking to subs where, in some cases, they were just wholesale making poo poo up or literally translated it so that the opposite of the plot was happening, and also they think putting poo poo in a language you can read is bad and that's why they subtitle things in a language you can read" - a moron
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Jul 7, 2016 04:57
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But for real, I don't know that much Japanese but I can even point out where TV-N is mistranslating things. Refusing to translate "Henshin" because it's iconic to the series is fine, but it's "We are no longer using the word "Crew" or "Friends" because Nakama has no English equivalent that can properly convey the emotion and feelings of this word that means "Friends" or "Comrades" or "Crew members" TV-N is bad and there's no real reason to debate about it, it's not objectively bad, it's just bad. Just read this blog to see people a lot more fluent in Japanese than any of us pointing out how bad TV-N is. They're marginally better than nothing, but can often be misleading or just wrong.
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Jul 7, 2016 05:03
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RealFoxy posted:But for real, I don't know that much Japanese but I can even point out where TV-N is mistranslating things. Refusing to translate "Henshin" because it's iconic to the series is fine, but it's "We are no longer using the word "Crew" or "Friends" because Nakama has no English equivalent that can properly convey the emotion and feelings of this word that means "Friends" or "Comrades" or "Crew members" magenta and caphi did some posts about it while translating gaim https://notquitepurple.wordpress.com/2013/11/16/tv-n-gaim-5-the-roast-with-the-most/
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Jul 7, 2016 05:06
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My favorite TVN thing is still when takenoko wrote that the real romanization for Gaim's jinbaori forms was Zimber because an unrelated line of fashion coats or something used that romanization on their website.
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Jul 7, 2016 05:07
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Caphi posted:My favorite TVN thing is still when takenoko wrote that the real romanization for Gaim's jinbaori forms was Zimber because an unrelated line of fashion coats or something used that romanization on their website. Mine is still that post, it's why I paraphrased for the thread title
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Jul 7, 2016 05:11
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I'm almost mad at the whole "our subs help people learn Japanese!" thing. One, no they don't, two, we make subtitles so people don't have to learn Japanese.
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Jul 7, 2016 05:12
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But dude you're just dumbing it down if you translate it!
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Jul 7, 2016 05:13
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Cliff Racer posted:The way you talk about it is very obnoxious and it has, among other things, resulted in this thread's OP being lovely and in some ways incomplete. You should love the OP then, it should remind you of reading TVN subs
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Jul 7, 2016 05:19
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hm. I think I might have had TV Nihon for some early gaim.. maybe I went with aesir for later episodes. But that post is enlightening about who Kaito is in a way that I never felt like I had grasped. I might need to torrent Gaim with Aesir and give it a rewatch at some point.
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Jul 7, 2016 05:24
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Acne Rain posted:hm. I think I might have had TV Nihon for some early gaim.. maybe I went with aesir for later episodes. I just did a full watch with a friend. It's rea good poo poo
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Jul 7, 2016 05:29
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People defending TVN in TYOOL 2016, lmao
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Jul 7, 2016 06:44
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Let's just end this by saying that TVN is not better than nothing.
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Jul 7, 2016 07:28
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Jyuohger Why?
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Jul 7, 2016 07:34
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I'm just mad that people are this vehement, and I guess by people I mean LTW but whatever. I was downloading poo poo from XDCC bots in TVN's IRC when in 2003 when any outsider visiting was expected to renounce PR like a Clinton supporter at a Trump rally. I remember being concerned when that Sailor Moon thing they did was becoming popular because I was afraid I'd lose all the access to toku I had if they blew up (remember Disney was distributing PR at the time). I realize there was a whole loving Tumblr about their subs being poor. So, yknow, their reputation precedes them at this point. I'm not actually defending TVN as much as I am annoyed that you apparently can't even mention some shows without some guy saying "Don't watch that the only subs for it are garbage" often in repeated posts. Straight up directing people to avoid something because you disagree with the sub group just seems like the most classical otaku bullshit ever. My last post was just sort of a generic, "dude who cares" in hopes you could move on. Instead I got back this sort of "well you should care unless you're some kind of moron" response that... gently caress. There's nothing wrong with the message to avoid a group or whatever, but it's the irrepressibly passionate way you're approaching it that rubs me the wrong way. I'll just take a timeout and maybe it'll pass soon. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Jul 7, 2016 |
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Jul 7, 2016 08:02
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Craptacular! posted:I'm not actually defending TVN as much as I am annoyed that you apparently can't even mention some shows without some guy saying "Don't watch that the only subs for it are garbage" often in repeated posts. Straight up directing people to avoid something because you disagree with the sub group just seems like the most classical otaku bullshit ever. So here's the deal, you might have an argument to stand on if people were saying to avoid shows just because you disagree with a translator's style, but that is not what is happening. TV-N, on top of all the non-translating style, regularly gets translations factually wrong to the point of them typing what is actually the opposite for what the characters are saying and what's happening in the plot or they cannot translate something/don't know what they're doing so they just make up poo poo to put into subs. This is objectively bad poo poo because it actively takes away from the reader's understanding of the show and letting people understand what is being said is the entire point of subtitles in the first place. They're bad, and get things wrong. In some cases they get enough wrong consistently that whole plot points and character nuances are completely removed from the show and because the viewers probably don't speak the language since they're reading translated subs those viewers will not know that the subs are actually getting things incorrect. That's bad, you're dumb to get mad that people tell others to avoid it.
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Jul 7, 2016 08:29
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Plus, unlike something like the Duwang scans for JoJo, they're lacking in any sort charm that might be redeeming or endearing in the face of being godawful.
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Jul 7, 2016 08:36
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:So here's the deal, Oh yeah, I sympathize. I don't need it explained to me why they're bad, I certainly know. I just think LTW treats the issue with undue importance (if people know what they're getting into and download anyway, whatever right?) and telling people to go make your own thread if they don't like his/her incessant posting on the issue just turned it into the most inane thing. There's a point where you need to shoot the messanger. Anyway, I only tried to take control because the subject began as an honest attempt to warn me in case I didn't know. I thought saying, "yup I know TVN is bad; thanks but how about going back to the shows?" would not create.... Well, this.
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Jul 7, 2016 08:42
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It's a little weird to tell someone to not be passionate about something they care about, especially on a board all about Japanese animation and also bugmen. At least to me. But to try to get things back on track, I finally watched the newest Zyuohger, and I still really like Tousai Zyuoh a lot. There's something about CROCODILE ARM that's so adorable 
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Jul 7, 2016 08:58
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Also LTW works at a comic shop, by this point vehemence about nerd stuff has to be his default state of being.
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Jul 7, 2016 09:23
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T.G. Xarbala posted:Also LTW works at a comic shop, by this point vehemence about nerd stuff has to be his default state of being. The year I didn't work at the shop was beautiful, because it freed me from this curse And then I went back
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Jul 7, 2016 13:08
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TVN isn't even consistant in what they translate and what they don't. Sometimes in one series they won't translate a word even though it has a direct english equivalent (like refusing to translate the word "Mother" in Magiranger for some reason) but in another series they'll translate the same word all the time. Not to mention at times where they mistranslate lines and end up bringing up plot points that don't exist. For example, there's a line in their Blade translation about Tachibana being able to control the Undead. This is never brought up again in the series because, well, nobody actually said it begin with. Also in Hibiki there's a scene where Asamu's mother mentions that Hibiki looks a lot like Asamu's father, though you'd never know it if you watched the TVN subs as they subbed it as something different. While I have watched TVN subs if that was my only option (Hell, I've watched HK subs or even raws if they're the only thing available, I'm not terribly picky) and in fact, still enjoyed shows like Den-O (The series mind you, the movies are a different story), Shinkenger, and Gokaiger despite seeing them for the first time using TVN subs I still wouldn't defend them by any means.
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Jul 7, 2016 13:54
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