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Robot Mil posted:Yeah I'm not sure the current situation means much, there wasn't a lot of choice. 50% women was good but I'm sure there was criticism before about the women MPs not being in major positions. If Angela Eagle and Liz Kendall are the best recent propositions for leadership material maybe they do have a problem... Again criticism from Blairites, because in the 19th century the 4 major offices of state were Prime Minister, Chancellor, Foreign Secretary, Home Secretary. When positions are announced it is now traditionally these four that are announced first. In modern times you should probably add Health, Education, Work and Pensions and Defence for a start (especially Health and Work and Pensions considering the enormous budgets they wield compared to Foreign and the impact they have on day to day life). With Hilary Benn gone Emily Thornberry is now Shadow Foreign Secretary. Under 13 years of Blair/Brown women held 'great offices' twice, Margaret Beckett as Foreign Secretary 2006/7 (reshuffled to another position after a year due to incompetence, as she was with every cabinet role she had) and Jacqui Smith as Home Secretary, and we remember how well that went.
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Jul 7, 2016 21:49
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nopantsjack posted:The proviso "by force" is basically the only thing you've slipped in there that makes this not what the SNP are doing. Well yes, because "by force" is the only thing which stops that being applicable down to the level of the individual. There is a distinction between the imperial oppression of a vast group of people by a small group because they posses a monopoly of force, and "representative democracy".
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Jul 7, 2016 21:50
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nopantsjack posted:The proviso "by force" is basically the only thing you've slipped in there that makes this not what the SNP are doing. No the SNP are using left wing ideas to get people behind nationalism, they believe in nothing but ideological nationalism.
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Jul 7, 2016 21:52
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OwlFancier posted:Well yes, because "by force" is the only thing which stops that being applicable down to the level of the individual. It's going to be worth it in 10 years time. Thundercloud posted:Jacqui Smith as Home Secretary, and we remember how well that went.  , but not very much worse than the other Blairite Home Secretaries.
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Jul 7, 2016 21:52
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XMNN posted:i have a direct line to whitehall and they are saying that we are "extremely hosed" Oh, do you read Civil Service World as well? Which has had so many 'Why we are hosed because of Brexit' and 'They did it! They loving blew it up!' articles that the email I got today had 3 non-Brexit articles as a selling point.
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Jul 7, 2016 21:53
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Wonder if some of the saner Tories are legitimately worried about the fascist path they put themselves on and now cannot get off.
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Jul 7, 2016 21:55
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StoneOfShame posted:No the SNP are using left wing ideas to get people behind nationalism, they believe in nothing but ideological nationalism. Beats the poo poo out of the tories using racism to get people behind neoliberalism, imo but I suppose nobody here is arguing the SNP are worse than them. If the SNP would step up to their hype they'd be pretty great.
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Jul 7, 2016 21:55
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nopantsjack posted:Beats the poo poo out of the tories using racism to get people behind neoliberalism, imo but I suppose nobody here is arguing the SNP are worse than them. I guess we'll see what happens when article 50 happens in September. They're going to have an enemy in westminster that would actually consider sending tanks in. Things are going to get very lovely. They're going to need to get tough and decisive because they're going to get lied to again and any concessions will be traps. edit: Granted none of us could predict how lovely things would get but man Cameron seems like an ok guy about now. Makes me think he got the job because the kingmakers knew he could control the crazy. Until he couldn't. Regarde Aduck fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Jul 7, 2016 |
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Jul 7, 2016 21:57
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Helen Highwater posted:Mhairi Black? Mo Mowlem? Glenda Jackson? Off the top of my head. Glenda Jackson is responsible for bring Dan Hodges into this world, an unforgivable crime
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Jul 7, 2016 22:02
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Thundercloud posted:Again criticism from Blairites, because in the 19th century the 4 major offices of state were Prime Minister, Chancellor, Foreign Secretary, Home Secretary. When positions are announced it is now traditionally these four that are announced first. It's a shame Mo Mowlem a) died and b) didn't end up as foreign secretary because it would be nice to have a foreign secretary who prefers diplomacy.
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Jul 7, 2016 22:03
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Bryter posted:Glenda Jackson is responsible for bring Dan Hodges into this world, an unforgivable crime If The Force Awakens has taught us anything, it's that if you're a great person you'll have a lovely kid.
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Jul 7, 2016 22:04
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Thundercloud posted:If Tony Benn has taught us anything, it's that if you're a great person you'll have a lovely kid.
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Jul 7, 2016 22:05
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OwlFancier posted:It's a shame Mo Mowlem a) died and b) didn't end up as foreign secretary because it would be nice to have a foreign secretary who prefers diplomacy. Err I think if you listen to Tony Blair who never lied about anything or shamelessly promoted himself that Mo Mowlem basically just made the tea whilst he fixed Norn Iron.
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Jul 7, 2016 22:05
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Regarde Aduck posted:They're going to have an enemy in westminster that would actually consider sending tanks in. Do they really care that much about keeping Scotland? I mean they care a little bit because Glorious Bretane but it's not as if they get many MPs from it
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Jul 7, 2016 22:09
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OwlFancier posted:3. Highly improbable that anyone who hates political correctness either a) knows what it means or b) isn't a tool. This. Back around the time of the election, everyone else in my office was busy agreeing with each other that political correctness was the biggest problem in the UK. I tried to figure out what they were on about (before telling them all to gently caress off, obviously) and while it was all frustratingly vague there were a few coherent bits. It seemed to be partly racism (there was some whining about the MOBO awards, and how racism is over and black people should shut up about it, and did you know there were white slaves), but it was also about a feeling that in the past few years things have started getting complicated for straight white men, and they're not happy about it. They know that some ways of talking about people aren't allowed any more, but they don't really understand what those are, or how to avoid them. They don't think of themselves as racist (they even have black friends, and my boss employs a lesbian, which means he is officially Not A Bigot), but at the same time they don't like having to think about other people's feelings. There's a feeling that things used to be better when white men were in charge of everything, and they'd like to go back to that please.
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Jul 7, 2016 22:15
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nopantsjack posted:They lost my scottish lass by abstaining on fracking, abstaining when you have basically all the seats is a pretty cowardly thing to do imo but I may be misinformed. Haven't been paying a huge amount of attention to them, although I like Nicola and voted for them in the general. Am now a Corbynista though and luckily Kezia has gone from very stupid to inoffensive so I can vote Scots-Lab without feeling bad. There's an interesting blog post by a lawyer specialising in Environmental Law which explains why the SNP might have gone that route. https://talkingmince.wordpress.com/2016/02/17/its-not-easy-being-green-part-two-along-came-a-lawyer/ While I'm personally opposed to fracking I also appreciate the idea of producing more research on the issue and having a public consultation before making a final decision.
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Jul 7, 2016 22:22
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgQwPwuAPr4
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Jul 7, 2016 22:23
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She's running on anti-austerity AND anti-political correctness? I like this hag.
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Jul 7, 2016 22:23
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Regarde Aduck posted:Assuming someone is not overtly racist or bigoted what does "waging war on political correctness" actually mean? Does it have a meaning beyond letting people be racist without social stigma? Like what is the pure uncorrupted meaning behind it? Is there one? Can someone be against political correctness and not be a gigantic prick with a nasty agenda? Of course they can. If someone was to, I dunno, say islam's subjugation of women and demonizing of homosexuality is a travesty and should not be tolerated in certain left wing circles I'd be lauded as a bigot. It's just too tempting a false dichotomy for those who believe in political correctness to say you can't hold a view like that without hating Muslims. It is literally the fuel for the whole anti-Semitism fire within labour. Israel != all jews. Try and explain that to someone like John Mann who wants to use acusations of bigotry and by extension political correctness as a weapon. It's loving weak.
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Jul 7, 2016 22:34
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welp https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/750799914008018944 (no +/- because it's survation's first)
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Jul 7, 2016 22:37
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As well as racism I'm expecting womens and LBQT rights to get a good kicking if Andrea Leadsoms war on political correctness goes ahead. It'll probably include things like saying women should stay at home and look after babies, gay people shouldn't be able to adopt or get married, sex education should be just telling girls to keep their legs closed and probably nothing good on abortion.
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Jul 7, 2016 22:37
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hookerbot 5000 posted:As well as racism I'm expecting womens and LBQT rights to get a good kicking if Andrea Leadsoms war on political correctness goes ahead. It'll probably include things like saying women should stay at home and look after babies, gay people shouldn't be able to adopt or get married, sex education should be just telling girls to keep their legs closed and probably nothing good on abortion. Women shouldn't have babies out of wedlock, that's the root cause of child abuse and murder.
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Jul 7, 2016 22:40
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Total Meatlove posted:Women shouldn't have babies 
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Jul 7, 2016 22:46
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Cerv posted:welp Nothing there I didn't expect. Most of the country still thinks Brexit was good and the Tories were the party that gave them it. Also Labour have only just finished their latest implosion. Or is this about the fact UKIP is going to become the third party. Because yeah that's bad.
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Jul 7, 2016 22:48
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All goons come to #ukgoons on synirc for Question Time. This week: Brighton. Come and gawp in horror as actual fascists who have been living in our midst all along feel emboldened by Brexit to share their toe-headed opinions with our very silly nation. 
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Jul 7, 2016 22:50
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Regarde Aduck posted:Wonder if some of the saner Tories are legitimately worried about the fascist path they put themselves on and now cannot get off. Sexual disfunction is a pretty small punishment for the quantity of chaotic shite they've helped usher in imo.
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Jul 7, 2016 23:00
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Regarde Aduck posted:Nothing there I didn't expect. Most of the country still thinks Brexit was good and the Tories were the party that gave them it. Also Labour have only just finished their latest implosion. UKIP were already the 3rd largest party in England by vote count, but because of how the system works they only got one seat. About Brexit, the immediate fallout from the referendum was in the abstract for a lot of people. Stock market dropped, investment funds got frozen and the pound weakened. Nothing that's going to affect the majority now.
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Jul 7, 2016 23:01
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If Leadsom wins, I'd put cash on Section 28 coming back. Which is going to lead to a massive spike in LGBT* suicides. Also, no, there are no Tories having their Oppenheimer "what hath science wrought" moment, because one does not become a Conservative minister without being at least partly fascist. If they weren't fascist, they'd be in a different party.
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Jul 7, 2016 23:15
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Because I'm not amazing at Economics, I'm getting this from a friend of a friend on Facebook: "For those not set in their ways and want to learn something..... The decline in the pound is a VERY GOOD THING for it will stimulate your economy and save it when you need it the most. The closing today was the lowest in sterling since the 2nd quarter of 1985. The strong dollar is what will bring the US economy down. Capital inflows will pump up the dollar. As the dollar rises, stocks will benefit and foreign capital will be attracted by that move. If you look at the performance of the FTSE today compared to the DAX, you will see that this is currency inflation. The decline in the value of the pound means tangible assets will rise in proportion to the decline of the currency. The financial calamity will unfold. As long as Britain stays out of the EU, it will be continental Europe which collapses." Armstrong Economics apparently. What kind of horseshit is this? Different poster: "Don't allow yourself to be brainwashed by Euro beaurocrats. The EU is crumbling rapidly, I feel for our youth as they have very little knowledge, only what the media influences them. It's actually really sad how they are targeted as it is always easy to influence youth particularly when dictating. Goodbye EU, you will NOT be missed." Original friend who is not insane, and from NZ, is pissed off because a)Brexit, and b)they go on holiday all over a lot, and it just got expensive as gently caress given the crashing £. Where the gently caress are these people coming from, the EU is about to collapse/US etc?
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Jul 7, 2016 23:15
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Goldskull posted:"For those not set in their ways and want to learn something..... I like how often completely wrong/stupid statements begin with "Heh I hope you're ready 'cause it's time to drop a TRUTH BOMB"
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Jul 7, 2016 23:20
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Ah yes, our already poo poo income to cost-of-living ratio getting worse due to a failing currency is a good thing.
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Jul 7, 2016 23:25
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Goldskull posted:Because I'm not amazing at Economics, I'm getting this from a friend of a friend on Facebook: Paul Krugman had a couple of thoughtful columns on it, mainly on all the short-term doom and gloom: The Macroeconomics of Brexit: Motivated Reasoning? More on the Short-Run Macroeconomics of Brexit tl;dr: It is unlikely that there will be large short-term consequences. Krugman is of the opinion that scare-mongers are doing their usual scare-mongering. Things will settle out in a few weeks as the future gets clearer. Longer term, quote:OK, let’s start at the beginning. Brexit will almost certainly have an adverse effect on British trade; even if the UK ends up with a Norway-type agreement with the EU, the loss of guaranteed access to the EU market will affect firms’ decisions about investments, and inhibit trade flows.
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Jul 7, 2016 23:27
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Goldskull posted:Because I'm not amazing at Economics, I'm getting this from a friend of a friend on Facebook: See the problem is that just looks like "this bad thing? It's a good thing!!!!!" bullshit that is so popular at the moment. But I don't have any background in economics so maybe, just maybe, something in what he says has merit. But that's dangerous because I know that people love to lie. So the option I have is to waste years learning economics so I know if these arseholes are speaking even a gram of truth. Nah.
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Jul 7, 2016 23:27
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So how significant is it Falconer hung Blair out to dry re: Iraq?
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Jul 7, 2016 23:30
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nopantsjack posted:This is dumb, left-nationalism is a thing (and not lol national socialism) and basically implies looking after your own country and people in it first. The variant the SNP uses doesn't give a poo poo what ethnicity or nationality you are as long as you vote SNP, which seems perfectly appropriate to me. Fixed for accuracy. The SNP are all too happy to gently caress over Scots and foreigners alike who don't support them. (E: Not that this makes them unique, but they do like to pretend they're a broad church.)
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Jul 7, 2016 23:34
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So how much is stuff likely to go up by? Like, are my families weekly shop/rent/utility bills going to go up a shitload? I was finishing college in 2007/08 and lucked into a not terrible job so I was kind of insulated as to the change between pre 2006 and 2008 and now I'm super worried, it's hard to tell the difference between accurate but depressing pessimism and the absolutely brutal sounding, possibly hyperbolic proclamations? Edit: Oh hey, someone posted something exactly like what I was asking for, while I was asking for it. Cheers. That makes me feel a little more hopeful (economically at least, everything else is still brutally depressing). Also got some interviews for much better jobs lined up, so that'd be nice if I can actually convince someone to hire me again and not have to do this sometimes lucrative, sometimes not zero hours bullshit anymore. thebardyspoon fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Jul 7, 2016 |
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Jul 7, 2016 23:41
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XMNN posted:welcome to the dark timeline B... but we voted to kick them out 
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Jul 7, 2016 23:48
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If you read something on facebook related to the economy, it's wrong. Stop looking for better reasons to refute it, they don't exist.
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Jul 7, 2016 23:48
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Caveat: Unless it's along the lines of 'it's hosed'
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Jul 7, 2016 23:50
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Goldskull posted:Because I'm not amazing at Economics, I'm getting this from a friend of a friend on Facebook: A lot of this isn't wrong but it is incoherent. Currency devaluation CAN improve exports and boost those industries, however it's not a guarantee and is bad if you're importing lots of vital things (the UK is doing that). Most of our export industries are apparently pretty insensitive to currency fluctuations so it might not really help anything at all. They then seem to argue that the US is in trouble because capital is flooding into its stock market, which is just kinda silly. Sure they might be causing a bit of a bubble but that's the nature of stock markets, not necessarily currency speculators selling pounds and buying up dollars. Suggesting it'll ruin the US economy is fanciful. quote:The decline in the value of the pound means tangible assets will rise in proportion to the decline of the currency. Er I think this is trying to say that the closer the tangible economy is to the intangible (financial instruments) in terms of size then it's a good thing. I can't imagine why they think that as the UK economy is based on intangibles so shrinking them is bad for the economy and recessions and crisis can still arise in the tangible sector so.... quote:The financial calamity will unfold. As long as Britain stays out of the EU, it will be continental Europe which collapses." Well the Eurozone and the EU is still in crap shape so this could be right.
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Jul 7, 2016 23:51
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