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Paul MaudDib posted:A black person does not need to be involved in extremist movements to own a dashiki. gently caress off. i was saying i'd hope that's their reason, not that it's legitimate or should be applauded, but at least then they're not trying to tie BLM to a guy who said he wasn't a part of them i just wish they would just a normal picture of the dude in a t-shirt and jeans, his actions speak for themselves, don't need to use caricatures
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Jul 8, 2016 21:11
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Reason posted:BLM protesters and other anti-police/state violence often refer to police as an occupying force in their neighborhoods. Sorry if that wasn't clear to you. Actually, I am pretty sure most of the people in the BLM movement don't use that kind of language to describe the police. Sorry if I am challenging your kind of stupid assertions.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:12
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computer parts posted:The Second Amendment doesn't really have anything to do with policemen (armed or otherwise), unless you're literally trying to get rid of every gun in America. I...I know that. My point is that too many of the people they're charged with policing have guns. I would like to have a basically gun-free society, but you need to disarm the populace before you can disarm the police force.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:12
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:It's a goofy half-formed, probably dumb idea, but I think that it'd be interesting to pair police with trained social workers for patrols. Recently there was a story on the local NPR station (KUOW) of a police reform advocate whom had worked with the LA department recounted a story of how when some reforms were implemented, one officer in particular complained "I didn't sign up to be a loving social worker" and was told "then hand in your badge and gun" Found the story I think KUOW quote:Police officers should be guardians, not warriors, says civil rights lawyer
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Jul 8, 2016 21:13
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Dude that was open carrying and turned in his rifle after/during the shooting is gonna be interviewed on MSNBC after the commercial break.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:14
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Karl Sharks posted:i was saying i'd hope that's their reason, not that it's legitimate or should be applauded, but at least then they're not trying to tie BLM to a guy who said he wasn't a part of them It's perfectly valid for a BLM protester to own/wear a dashiki. The dashiki has nothing to do with this shooting. Using that picture is a dogwhistle that blames black culture and blacks as a whole. It's like using Trayvon Martin pictures with his hoodie and sagging pants or whatever.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:15
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Probably another good way to improve policing is to majorly increase hiring standards and pay rates and do better psych profiling of applicants and cadets and weed out psychos. Of course that will cost a poo poo load of money so it's a non starter.Paul MaudDib posted:It's perfectly valid for a BLM protester to own/wear a dashiki. The dashiki has nothing to do with this shooting, and using that picture is a dogwhistle that blames black culture and blacks as a whole. I think we're all on the same page here man.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:15
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zoux posted:Probably another good way to improve policing is to majorly increase hiring standards and pay rates and do better psych profiling of applicants and cadets and weed out psychos. Of course that will cost a poo poo load of money so it's a non starter. Don't a lot of police forces hire veterans? They'd think it was a good idea because they'd have extra training, but running checkpoints in Baghdad is way different than patrolling american cities.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:18
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One of the biggest things we can do to improve policing is shift towards community-oriented policing. It's something I actually know a little about, having helped draft the manuscript for DoJ on the issue.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:19
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Paul MaudDib posted:Even if the public at large was disarmed it's absolutely inconceivable that cops would be willing to give up (or accept significant barriers to utilizing) their armaments. Cops here have way too much of a warrior mentality compared to someplace like the UK. That's why this post from a day back is so precious. Baby steps and compromise - put police guns in a locked container (glovebox, center console, etc) with a seal on it. Every time the seal is broken, require the officer to fill out extensive paperwork justifying the need to introduce deadly force into a situation.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:19
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Did someone say dashiki? https://youtu.be/TBv3BKY_604
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Jul 8, 2016 21:19
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twistedmentat posted:Don't a lot of police forces hire veterans? They'd think it was a good idea because they'd have extra training, but running checkpoints in Baghdad is way different than patrolling american cities. Indeed they are! The army apparently has much better training regarding the continuum of force, for one.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:21
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Actually, I am pretty sure most of the people in the BLM movement don't use that kind of language to describe the police. Sorry if I am challenging your kind of stupid assertions. I guess are not listening hard enough. Maybe you should examine your privilege and decide whether or not you're part of the problem? In news from Ferguson, Missouri, a panel formed in the aftermath of the police shooting of Michael Brown has called for reforms to address racial injustice in the St. Louis region. The report calls for merging police departments and courts, and curbing police use of force through new policies, training and a statewide database of use-of-force incidents. It concludes, "The regular use of force has led many citizens to view the police as an occupying force." BI NOW GAY LATER posted:One of the biggest things we can do to improve policing is shift towards community-oriented policing. It's something I actually know a little about, having helped draft the manuscript for DoJ on the issue. Oh haha, you are part of the problem.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:22
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theflyingorc posted:Yes, because we have the second amendment, meaning that it is significantly more likely that the person you are attempting to apprehend has a gun. No, just disarm the police. zoux posted:Happy to repeal the second amendment, myself. Which will do rear end-all to address the problem of cops extrajudicially executing minorities but it'd piss off your political enemies so gently caress it, right? computer parts posted:The Second Amendment doesn't really have anything to do with policemen (armed or otherwise), unless you're literally trying to get rid of every gun in America. So close, so close, The Second Amendment has nothing to do with police choosing to murder (or overreact with excessive force) to minorities, and then getting off without penalty. You could wave a fairy wand and tomorrow pass full gun bans, wave it again to magically make every non-felon line up to toss their guns in the shredder, and cops would still be killing minorities, the mentally ill, etc. They will either nullify your ban with spurious logic like; "Well I assumed he was a criminal (He was black you see., and criminals don't obey bans, QED he had a gun, which is why I had to empty my magazine into his back as he laid on the ground, handcuffed.' Or not even bother, as we've seen from the last several decades the actual possession of knives, thin air, or wallets have made no difference in Officer Hogg's choice to pull the loving trigger. They'll continue with their bullshit because of the toxic police culture encourages them to 'be assertive' and 'control the situation' and to crush with overwhelming force. They'll continue to get away with said bullshit because the same toxic relationship between DA's, judges and cops keeps them out of the courtroom. They'll continue to pay lip service to the notion of the public good because nobody holds them accountable, in any respect. Until one of those three things, which are pretty self evident and direct, get changed, people will continue to die and suffer under the auspices of people who swore an oath to protect them. LeJackal fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Jul 8, 2016 |
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Jul 8, 2016 21:22
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Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:So Seattle PD tweeted (and quickly deleted) a tweet for their fellow boys in blue lost in Dallas last night, which is fine I guess, they're allowed to grieve. But then ended their tweet with #WeShallOvercome, which I think we can all agree is really gross to co-opt. It was actually the SPD union that sent out that tweet. They have a history of being huge pieces of reactionary poo poo.  Our police department is currently under a consent decree by the Justice Department too Teabag Dome Scandal fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Jul 8, 2016 |
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Jul 8, 2016 21:22
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Reason posted:I guess are not listening hard enough. Maybe you should examine your privilege and decide whether or not you're part of the problem? What is this infant tier bullshit
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Jul 8, 2016 21:23
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:One of the biggest things we can do to improve policing is shift towards community-oriented policing. It's something I actually know a little about, having helped draft the manuscript for DoJ on the issue. Can you link to a copy of that manuscript or a relevant research document? It's unclear to me exactly what community policing describes but would be interested to read something on the subject.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:23
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twistedmentat posted:Don't a lot of police forces hire veterans? They'd think it was a good idea because they'd have extra training, but running checkpoints in Baghdad is way different than patrolling american cities. Veterans being hired to police forces are 100% not the cause of increased police militarization or adversarial approaches to policing.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:24
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GalacticAcid posted:Can you link to a copy of that manuscript or a relevant research document? It's unclear to me exactly what community policing describes but would be interested to read something on the subject. Broadly, community policing emphasizes the officer as a part of and friend to the community. You try to get cops out of patrol cars and walking beats and interacting with people in your area. It fosters trust between police and citizens, it makes cops become "experts" in their areas so they know how best to enforce in those areas, police are less likely to choke to death people they see every day. People feel safer, cops feel safer, everybody is happy.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:25
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zoux posted:What is this infant tier bullshit BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Sorry if I am challenging your kind of stupid assertions.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:25
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LGD posted:Veterans being hired to police forces are 100% not the cause of increased police militarization or adversarial approaches to policing. Yeah, I think the paper released by the UCLA a year or two ago about the militarization of American police highlighted an increase in military grade hardware and adversarial approaches to criminals combined with the lack of training that comes with either of those mindsets being the cause behind an increasingly violent police force in this country. Like they highlighted how even in an active warzone and on patrol, American soldiers are trained to avoid escalation, and basically never reach for their weapon unless someone actually shoots at them first. edit: to tie it back into the quoted comment, even with the perceived increased risk of PTSD, a veteran should have the appropriate weapons and interaction training to avoid the kind of stupid poo poo most cops seem to pull.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:26
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Durr to prove my assertion that most BLM activists call cops occupiers here's a report in a single region in one of the most abusive oppressive police regimes in the country gently caress off please
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Jul 8, 2016 21:27
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Karl Sharks posted:i just wish they would just a normal picture of the dude in a t-shirt and jeans, his actions speak for themselves, don't need to use caricatures Agreed, why do they always show Bin Laden in his getup? Why can't they show him as the cool, normal guy he was, in a t-shirt and jeans?
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Jul 8, 2016 21:27
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GalacticAcid posted:Can you link to a copy of that manuscript or a relevant research document? It's unclear to me exactly what community policing describes but would be interested to read something on the subject. I'll see if I can dig it up -- I helped edit the manuscript that was submitted to DOJ's COPS office as part of a grant but http://cops.usdoj.gov/ has a bunch of resources on it. Basically community-oriented policing is the idea of strengthening the bonds between police and community so that both community leaders and police work to better to achieve outcomes desirable to both. Reason posted:I guess are not listening hard enough. Maybe you should examine your privilege and decide whether or not you're part of the problem?  Reason posted:Oh haha, you are part of the problem. Are you really going to argue against community oriented policing as one of the best methods for policing that reduces the kind of tensions and problems we've seen erupt in the last years, because if so...
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Jul 8, 2016 21:29
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zoux posted:Durr to prove my assertion that most BLM activists call cops occupiers here's a single statement from a single person in a single region in one of the most abusive oppressive police regimes in the country gently caress off please Sorry I didn't want to fill a whole page with links that is annoying, but I felt that this thing really kicked off with Ferguson and would be one of the most pertinent sources of information. Community policing is an interesting idea, but so long as police can carry lethal weapons, don't live in the areas they police and are not accountable by the community for a single thing that they do they will never be a part of the community and community policing won't work. Community policing is one of those fuzzy happy ideas that liberals get behind because it makes them feel good about themselves while not addressing the issues of racism and the police violence and economic violence that go along with racism. Doorknob Slobber fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Jul 8, 2016 |
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Jul 8, 2016 21:29
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Reason posted:Sorry I didn't want to fill a whole page with links that is annoying, but I felt that this thing really kicked off with Ferguson and would be one of the most pertinent sources of information. Community policing is an interesting idea, but so long as police can carry lethal weapons, live in the areas they police and are not accountable for a single thing that they do they will never be a part of the community and community policing won't work. Dude if youre concerned about filling pages with annoying poo poo, I have some bad news https://twitter.com/ZekeJMiller/status/751512898401337345 Good.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:30
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LGD posted:Veterans being hired to police forces are 100% not the cause of increased police militarization or adversarial approaches to policing. I would flip that around a bit and say it's not 100% the cause. It is however a contributing factor, even if only a small one. A larger one is the massive military surplus built up by a decade and a half of permawar and the need to dispose of that to eager police departments wanting to be tacticool army men and not lame Andy Griffiths.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:31
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If this stops the lovely tradition of having single cops in cars, it'd be great. Cops pairing up is better for them and the people in literally every way imaginable.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:31
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Vets who aren't hosed by PTSD would have far better training and discipline for domestic law enforcement than what we currently have.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:31
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Why are the vets coming back today so traumatized? Far, far more people saw combat in WWII and yet society didn't start to unravel because of it, as it is today.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:32
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Reason posted:Sorry I didn't want to fill a whole page with links that is annoying, but I felt that this thing really kicked off with Ferguson and would be one of the most pertinent sources of information. Community policing is an interesting idea, but so long as police can carry lethal weapons, don't live in the areas they police and are not accountable by the community for a single thing that they do they will never be a part of the community and community policing won't work. Reason posted:Community policing is one of those fuzzy happy ideas that liberals get behind because it makes them feel good about themselves while not addressing the issues of racism and the police violence and economic violence that go along with racism. Well, if you actually wanted to ask me about what I was talking about instead of being dismissive out of hand, I would tell you I actually agree and that you need to have a number of those things as part of an effective community policing strategy. I could also tell you about the number of places where the model has worked and the research involved in it, beyond just a "liberal idea," since again, I've been part of the academic field research on the subject and worked with experts in the field of community policing. Or you can keep making dumb poo poo posts. Your choice.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:33
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call to action posted:Why are the vets coming back today so traumatized? Far, far more people saw combat in WWII and yet society didn't start to unravel because of it, as it is today. haha man what a great post
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Jul 8, 2016 21:33
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call to action posted:Why are the vets coming back today so traumatized? Far, far more people saw combat in WWII and yet society didn't start to unravel because of it, as it is today. Gee, where could you be from I picture TFR guys trying so hard to just lurk this thread so they can make scoff noises and roll their eyes but after the third guy calls it a clip they just can't help themselves.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:34
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call to action posted:Why are the vets coming back today so traumatized? Far, far more people saw combat in WWII and yet society didn't start to unravel because of it, as it is today. Among other things, most soldiers survive injuries these days.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:35
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Actually people who never have even been in combat and have just been in a warzone have higher instances of PTSD. Like just soldiers who are the base carpenter or something like that.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:35
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Among other things, most soldiers survive injuries these days. Makes sense. Thanks for not being a prick. btw you can call it a clip all you want, I don't really "give a care"
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Jul 8, 2016 21:37
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zoux posted:Gee, where could you be from the dude used an SKS so it totally might have been a clip
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Jul 8, 2016 21:37
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zoux posted:If it turns out that his "problems" with BLM were in fact that they were dedicated to peaceful opposition, and they find a 35k word manifesto detailing how much this guy hates BLM and disagrees with it and is not a part of it, I bet some conservatives still try to blame BLM. It's also an extremely nifty shirt that I wouldn't mind culturally appropriating. 
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Jul 8, 2016 21:37
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Ice-t plays a cop, snoop"187 on an undercover cop" at the podium. Makes total sense.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:37
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zoux posted:Broadly, community policing emphasizes the officer as a part of and friend to the community. You try to get cops out of patrol cars and walking beats and interacting with people in your area. It fosters trust between police and citizens, it makes cops become "experts" in their areas so they know how best to enforce in those areas, police are less likely to choke to death people they see every day. People feel safer, cops feel safer, everybody is happy. From a ways back but I just wanted to share a heart-warming story. The town over from me is amazing about this. The town itself isn't really conducive to "walking the beat" (because it's the Midwest) but the police are terrific about showing up at public events and just being generally awesome. There was a police officer making balloon animals at the Fourth of July Fair. My girlfriend who's a pre-school teacher took the kids outside in the park nearby and they were making box forts and structures and a police cruiser pulled up unannounced so the two officers could have a fort building competition with the pre-schoolers. Legitimately great. My one complaint is that there is no such thing as a warning. If they get called to the scene someone will get arrested.
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