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gandlethorpe posted:Yeah, one of the things that turns me off of the series at first glance is the cramped feeling of the small screen. The other main thing is the inferior art style compared to the X series. the art in zero is really good, though?? toru nakayama is a really awesome illustrator unless you specifically mean the sprites, in which case, i dunno, i think they're cool. i don't think you'd be able to do the ps1 x-style sprites on a gba, and the look the snes games had would have been a bit goofy for the tone zero took
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Jul 9, 2016 01:06
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I do mean the sprites. The general art style is great and fitting. It just didn't translate well to GBA. They try to show too much detail in too small sprites. I'm mainly talking about bosses, since boss design has always been one of the biggest draws for me when it comes to MM. A lot of them are kind of blobby.
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Jul 9, 2016 01:25
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TheKingofSprings posted:There's a universe out there where the first two parts of Omega were properly redone on the DS collection like how they were planned before GBA limitations kicked in. Elaboration?
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Jul 9, 2016 01:55
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The Colonel posted:the art in zero is really good, though?? toru nakayama is a really awesome illustrator Yeah a lot of Nakayama's style gets lost in the sprites, especially Zero's sprite which has him in an odd hunched over position and with an odd bright orange-red as his default. I think they did a decent enough job though all things considered and a lot of the bosses do look quite nice.
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Jul 9, 2016 06:38
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Is using cyber-elves the only way to raise your max health (thereby lowering your score)?
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Jul 9, 2016 07:09
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According to people I asked on social media earlier today : yes
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Jul 9, 2016 07:15
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Shovel Knight's in Gunvolt 2! (as a boss fight) (locked behind the Shovel Knight amiibo) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4DlaJNeusc
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Jul 9, 2016 07:23
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gandlethorpe posted:Is using cyber-elves the only way to raise your max health (thereby lowering your score)? Sub tanks basically do the same thing, and Z2 gives you two of those for free if you explore the jungle stages. Z3 should too IIRC, and technically Z4 does but gently caress that game's crafting system. Z3 and Z4 let you use some elves without penalty, too.
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Jul 9, 2016 07:32
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i can't remember if zero 3 does, actually, but zero 4 totally overhauls the elf system with croire and lets you use increasingly more without any penalty as the game progresses
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Jul 9, 2016 07:33
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Seems like an odd design choice to make something a major part of the game and then discourage you from using it.
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Jul 9, 2016 07:53
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gandlethorpe posted:Seems like an odd design choice to make something a major part of the game and then discourage you from using it. zero 1 and 2 have lots of weird design choices, like making you level up weapons instead of starting with full basic movesets
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Jul 9, 2016 08:03
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That was my major issue with the zero games. "Hey, here are all these cool effects you could have, and here's a pickup that's literally worthless unless you use that system, but if you actually use it we're going to lock you out of some special moves. They're hugely situational 90% of the time anyway, but there's no way you'd know that without spending time to get gud, at which point you don't need any of the cool stuff this mechanic unlocks. Good luck!" I love the zero games and getting good enough at them to blitz through stages like a ninja for top scores is super satisfying but I never understood why the cyber elf system was included. You've already got weapon leveling in the early games to give people having trouble a little help with faster charges at max level, is an entirely separate system to boost health or not instadie to pits that requires you to go out of your way to find said help before penalizing you for daring to not be good enough really necessary?
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Jul 9, 2016 08:10
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The idea is that you're ideally supposed to be able to beat all the levels without needing extra bonuses, but if you can't do that then just use a powerup. You'll get a lower score, but it's not like the points really mean anything so who cares? Unfortunately players really hate getting F's. The Colonel posted:i can't remember if zero 3 does, actually, but zero 4 totally overhauls the elf system with croire and lets you use increasingly more without any penalty as the game progresses Z3 introduced Satellite elves. The Colonel posted:zero 1 and 2 have lots of weird design choices, like making you level up weapons instead of starting with full basic movesets The entire Zero series is an example of developers wildly trying to compensate for the previous entry. Z2 tosses out the entire flexible mission structure of Z1, Z3 completely rehauls Z2's forms and EX skills, gets rid of weapons levels, and also throws in a new way to use cyber elves without penalty, and Z4 just straight up threw away everything for a whole new system.
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Jul 9, 2016 08:37
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Here's how I played the first Zero game as a kid: I used the cyber elves when I needed them. I loved the game so much I played it a couple more times with that file and when I felt I could handle the challenge, I started a new one with the goal of not using the elves. Finally I moved on to trying to get the EX skills. By the time I got Zero 2 (which was right before Zero 3 came out), I didn't have to go through that progression anymore.
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Jul 9, 2016 12:59
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:Shovel Knight's in Gunvolt 2! Okay, I really really really like Shovel Knight, but i'm not buying a loving DS, much less a doll to put on top of it. Fargin Icehole fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Jul 9, 2016 |
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Jul 9, 2016 15:26
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I already have a DS and a doll to place on it so this is really cool!
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Jul 9, 2016 19:52
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How are the Gunvolt games? It seems like the mechanic to damage enemies is just a little too roundabout and can become tedious.
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Jul 9, 2016 22:39
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JetpackHowwy posted:How are the Gunvolt games? It seems like the mechanic to damage enemies is just a little too roundabout and can become tedious. azure striker gunvolt is really good, it's not tailored very well towards casual play but the game gets really good as you get better at it
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Jul 9, 2016 22:46
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JetpackHowwy posted:How are the Gunvolt games? It seems like the mechanic to damage enemies is just a little too roundabout and can become tedious. Did you like the Megaman Zero games? It's like them but with an electricity gimmick to damage enemies. I think it's pretty fun, not as good as the Zero series but not bad for a first attempt. I'm looking forward to the sequel because of the second playable character playing more akin to X from the X series.
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Jul 9, 2016 23:41
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BlitzBlast posted:The idea is that you're ideally supposed to be able to beat all the levels without needing extra bonuses, but if you can't do that then just use a powerup. You'll get a lower score, but it's not like the points really mean anything so who cares? It's loving insulting to tell someone they're playing the game wrong.
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Jul 9, 2016 23:47
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Mr. Fortitude posted:Did you like the Megaman Zero games? It's like them but with an electricity gimmick to damage enemies. I think it's pretty fun, not as good as the Zero series but not bad for a first attempt. I'm looking forward to the sequel because of the second playable character playing more akin to X from the X series. i was already planning on buying gv2 when they release it on steam, if copen makes it play more like x then i'm totally grabbing it
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Jul 9, 2016 23:49
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Lurdiak posted:It's loving insulting to tell someone they're playing the game wrong. Why? Like... yes. There is a right way to play a game. Video games are games. Not all of them do but many are designed with rules, concepts and eventual endgames in mind. If you choose not to play in the sandbox the game provides that's totally your prerogative but that doesn't mean the game is designed with that in mind. It's nice when developers put thought processes for multiple playstyles in mind but games are designed with the idea you play them in a certain way. I think Zero's design has problems in that it too harshly discourages things not just with poor scores but plotwise (you're murdering fairies) and rewardwise too, but merely the fact it grades you at the end of a stage isn't an insult unless you only want games that praise you.
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Jul 9, 2016 23:54
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ImpAtom posted:Why? Because when I grabbed a heart container or an sub-tank in Megaman X, the game didn't tell me I sucked for using them. Having a ranking system in the game that penalises you for using the rewards that are in the stages is dumb as hell.
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Jul 10, 2016 00:03
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What's this? Games have mechanics and design choices that feature gameplay in certain directions and have failure/victory states and even...optimal playstyles that the design pushes you towards? How insulting it is for these to exist.TaurusOxford posted:Because when I grabbed a heart container or an sub-tank in Megaman X, the game didn't tell me I sucked for using them. Having a ranking system in the game that penalises you for using the rewards that are in the stages is dumb as hell. This is slightly a more legitimate point but it's also dumb because those Subtanks were put there as crutches just in case the player screwed up/made a mistake and need a heal in the middle of a fight. That's literally the entire reason they exist so it's not crazy for the game to say "Yeah you got through, but you needed that little boost so you didn't exactly do it perfectly" and then give you a non-perfect score. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Jul 10, 2016 |
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Jul 10, 2016 00:05
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TaurusOxford posted:Because when I grabbed a heart container or an sub-tank in Megaman X, the game didn't tell me I sucked for using them. Having a ranking system in the game that penalises you for using the rewards that are in the stages is dumb as hell. I don't really agree. (Though I think Zero had execution problems which I've mentioned before.) The thing is that it's possible to design items-as-handicaps. DMC for example does this. You can find items in stages that are incredibly powerful and allow you to brute-force most bosses, especially on the game's default difficulty level. At this point you have a few options: A) Don't punish item usage in score at which point it deemphasizes other elements of the game because why bother mastering mechanics and dodging when you can pop 9 Holy Waters and then facetank a boss's remaining HP? B) Design all bosses around item usage being a thing which probably will mean increased damage, higher HP and so-on which throws off the balance of the game and can potentially wreck difficulty curves C) Punish item usage which has the twin goal of adding an optional handicap for players who need it to get by while encouraging them to improve within the context of the game. The latter *is* necessary. Games that have powerful optional choices but no punishment for using them universally have people lean on them and go "the game didn't tell me not to, the game sucks!" Figuring out how to offer handicaps to lower-skill players while incentivising players to not lean on those handicaps is a difficult problem in gaming.
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Jul 10, 2016 00:10
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Lurdiak posted:It's loving insulting to tell someone they're playing the game wrong. good
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Jul 10, 2016 00:29
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:This is slightly a more legitimate point but it's also dumb because those Subtanks were put there as crutches just in case the player screwed up/made a mistake and need a heal in the middle of a fight. That's literally the entire reason they exist so it's not crazy for the game to say "Yeah you got through, but you needed that little boost so you didn't exactly do it perfectly" and then give you a non-perfect score. The weird things is (outside of the first game where they're tied to elf usage) Subtanks are a crutch that doesn't penalize you.
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Jul 10, 2016 00:29
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They only give you two as pickups, the other two are still from elves.
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Jul 10, 2016 01:12
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Schwarzwald posted:The weird things is (outside of the first game where they're tied to elf usage) Subtanks are a crutch that doesn't penalize you. They technically do, in that if you reached the point where you have to use a subtank you've probably taken enough damage that your score will have taken a hit.
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Jul 10, 2016 01:16
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Lurdiak posted:It's loving insulting to tell someone they're playing the game wrong. Wowza that's a whole lot of insulting games 
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Jul 10, 2016 06:55
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Lessail posted:Wowza that's a whole lot of insulting games I'll have you know that as a masochist and a pacifist, games that punish you for taking damage or not killing enemies are incredibly insulting to me because 
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Jul 10, 2016 07:08
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zero 3 is the best zero game because it's cool and fun and sick jumps and also the satellite elf system is the best. elpizo's theme (this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vceTwcu6ik ) is the best song in the series. megaman zero owns. god bless
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Jul 10, 2016 07:10
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alcharagia posted:zero 3 is the best zero game because it's cool and fun and sick jumps and also the satellite elf system is the best. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhYoOU_b_lI
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Jul 10, 2016 07:13
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Zero 2 has the best intro stage ever. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxbEoUAqtAs
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Jul 10, 2016 07:49
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I still hate Zero's redesign in those games.
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Jul 10, 2016 08:24
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Lurdiak posted:I still hate Zero's redesign in those games. i like it more than his x design. zero looks goofy in x, i think his cleaner look fits the zero series better
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Jul 10, 2016 08:26
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Lurdiak posted:I still hate Zero's redesign in those games. You're making it hard to love seeing you post 
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Jul 10, 2016 08:27
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My big problem with the MMZ design is they changed most of his body to black but kept the white crotchplate so it really looks like he's got a diaper on or something. They should have gone with a darker color instead since they did white-to-black for the rest of his design.
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Jul 10, 2016 08:29
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tbh, zero and zx probably have my favorite character design work in the series, outside of legends. classic and x have some designs i really like but i think zero and zx have the most consistently good design work all around.
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Jul 10, 2016 08:33
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The Colonel posted:i like it more than his x design. zero looks goofy in x, i think his cleaner look fits the zero series better Zero's look in the original SNES X games is the coolest thing my kid self ever saw. It got kinda stupid in the playstation games with the gigantic feet, but it was still really cool. I just can't associate that with his dumb anemic design in the Zero games. I get that they were going for a new art style, but they didn't need to completely change everything iconic about his look. Hell, he's not even really red anymore, he's kinda orange.
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Jul 10, 2016 08:52
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