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sbaldrick posted:That was some proper popular history there. The biggest part it doesn't drive home is the fact that the game might have gotten wrapped up in Egyptian religion which is why it didn't travel. There's discussion about that towards the end of the article.
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Jul 5, 2016 20:31
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That article was great for making it clear that while ancient people were people with motivations we can understand they also had wildly different cultural frameworks to develop those motivations within Great article.
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Jul 5, 2016 20:39
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Cyrano4747 posted:That article was great for making it clear that while ancient people were people with motivations we can understand they also had wildly different cultural frameworks to develop those motivations within
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Jul 5, 2016 20:51
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HEY GAL posted:also: what other cultures/times think is funny fart jokes never go out of fashion
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Jul 5, 2016 23:24
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NLJP posted:I recently read an absolutely surprisingly good article on Eurogamer of all places about the ancient Egyptian board game Senet, how it was probably a little poo poo but was nevertheless popular throughout Egyptian prehistory and history, but oddly nowhere else. It contains great interviews with archaeologists, better allowed their own voice than basically all popular journalistic articles on ancient history I've read: I mean just because a board game isn't fun and is pretty poo poo to play doesn't mean it isn't popular. cf monopoly.
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Jul 6, 2016 00:18
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One thing that seems obvious is that there wouldn't have been a single rule set.
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Jul 6, 2016 00:28
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Arglebargle III posted:One thing that seems obvious is that there wouldn't have been a single rule set. I suspect for Senet the attraction wasn't so much the game itself, but the conversation/bullshitting that went on around it - like what the various throws meant and how the gods were feeling about the latest events in their lives. The Royal Game of Ur seemed more like something fun strangers could share, while Senet seemed like more of an intimate pastime with family and friends.
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Jul 6, 2016 00:34
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Deteriorata posted:I suspect for Senet the attraction wasn't so much the game itself, but the conversation/bullshitting that went on around it - like what the various throws meant and how the gods were feeling about the latest events in their lives. The Royal Game of Ur seemed more like something fun strangers could share, while Senet seemed like more of an intimate pastime with family and friends. So basically tarot poker?
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Jul 6, 2016 00:36
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Arglebargle III posted:One thing that seems obvious is that there wouldn't have been a single rule set. Yeah, this is the big one that jumped out at me reading that article. From playing Monopoly with cousins when I was in grade school to table top RPGs and horrible nerd wargames every time in my life I've slid tokens around on cardboard has involved some kind of house rules. If the game as they've figured it out is kind of unfun chances are that the way people were playing it in bars and docks was a bit different than what the priests were doing while thinking deep thoughts about the afterlife.
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Jul 6, 2016 00:37
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Tunicate posted:I mean just because a board game isn't fun and is pretty poo poo to play doesn't mean it isn't popular. You take that poo poo back, Monopoly is the only socially acceptable way I have to abuse my family and friends.
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Jul 6, 2016 00:44
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NLJP posted:http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-06-01-why-did-ancient-egypt-spend-3000-years-playing-a-game-nobody-else-liked Fascinating article NLJP, thanks for linking. Mind if I crosspost it to the boardgame thread? Incidentally, there's a comment implying that one of the article's premises is wrong: Senet was actually exported beyond Egypt. But it's still a fascinating article. Cyrano4747 posted:If the game as they've figured it out is kind of unfun chances are that the way people were playing it in bars and docks was a bit different than what the priests were doing while thinking deep thoughts about the afterlife. Yeah, that's what I was thinking too: even if the rules are the same, people can still think of the game very differently. Think of the difference between people thinking of Monopoly as a traditional family fun, as a critique of capitalism, or a pointless horrible roll-and-move snoozefest; or chess as just a game, a grandmaster's object of study for years, or artistic inspiration. I mean, even the two people playing it could have different opinions on it!
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Jul 6, 2016 03:04
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House Louse posted:Fascinating article NLJP, thanks for linking. Mind if I crosspost it to the boardgame Not my article, friend, so of course you can. As for monopoly, that was one of my examples of a technically rather crap but culturally important game when I sent this article to my friends and family.
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Jul 6, 2016 03:36
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I bet you could have a lot of house rules though, governing everything from movement to turn passing to capturing. Also so many house betting rules.
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Jul 6, 2016 03:48
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Cyrano4747 posted:... the way people were playing it in bars and docks ...
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Jul 6, 2016 08:51
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Figs and dates for sure, probably some kind of crackery things. Crunchy snacks seems to be a universal human desire. I'm not sure what else snacky grows in Egypt, I would assume they had some varieties of nuts.
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Jul 6, 2016 10:20
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Can't find anything by googling, but apparently well-preserved honey cakes have been found in Egyptian tombs. So presumably they would have indulged in such sweet pastries as well.
Kopijeger fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Jul 6, 2016 |
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Jul 6, 2016 11:03
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Kopijeger posted:Can't find anything by googling, but apparently well-preserved honey cakes have been found in Egyptian tombs. So presuambly they would have indulged in such sweet pastries as well.
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Jul 6, 2016 12:47
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I wonder if winning after landing in the water house doubled your earnings etc.
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Jul 6, 2016 13:13
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HEY GAL posted:not while you're playing senet, your fingers'd get all sticky This wouldn't matter to Egyptian Goons.
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Jul 6, 2016 14:22
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That was an awesome article, thanks for posting it. I have a senet set and it's, like, okay, but it's hardly a thrill. I just love that even in ancient Egypt people were smack-talking each other. Everyone always things ancient societies were so different, but really, human nature never changes.
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Jul 8, 2016 04:36
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Mad Hamish posted:Everyone always things ancient societies were so different, but really, human nature never changes.  you didn't read the whole article did you ?
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Jul 10, 2016 01:09
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Cyrano4747 posted:
That's what I thought when I saw the comment about the game being connected to religion.
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Jul 10, 2016 11:09
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Oh hey this is pretty cool - Ancient philistine cemetery discovered. Edit: For the love of God don't read the comments 
Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Jul 11, 2016 |
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Jul 11, 2016 04:58
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I didn't know that ultra-orthodox Jews impeding archaeologists was a thing. Archeology must be a really complicated field to manage the politics of. Pretty neat that they're finding physical evidence for one of those biblical peoples though.
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Jul 11, 2016 05:54
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SlothfulCobra posted:Archeology must be a really complicated field to manage the politics of. It's probably a nightmare at the best of times, but I can't even imagine trying to walk the tightrope that would be dealing with the various Mideast conflicts... which is where a ton of really loving cool poo poo can probably still be found. 
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Jul 11, 2016 06:11
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If something is happening in Israel, just assume the ultra-orthodox have an opinion on it and are being annoying about their opinion.
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Jul 11, 2016 06:22
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Elyv posted:just assume the ultra-orthodox are being annoying. This works for every religion too, including crossfit and veganism.
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Jul 11, 2016 06:35
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Can anyone recommend me a good book on Sassanid Persia?
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Jul 11, 2016 10:12
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Elyv posted:If something is happening in Israel, just assume the ultra-orthodox have an opinion on it and are being annoying about their opinion. Probably still not as bad as the Saudis.
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Jul 11, 2016 15:32
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SlothfulCobra posted:I didn't know that ultra-orthodox Jews impeding archaeologists was a thing. Archeology must be a really complicated field to manage the politics of. Yeah and beware of anything touting itself as 'Biblical Archaeology', I'm afraid most of the time the term has been hijacked by highly-politicised attempts to prove the bible or old testament true. At least this was correct the last time I looked into it a few years ago. Not to say that no good work has been done in the field, of course, and it is a valid area of research. The good work done has certainly exploded a lot of myths i.e the whole idea that a large amount of Israelites were ever slaves in Egypt. NLJP fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Jul 11, 2016 |
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Jul 11, 2016 16:05
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If a Vestal Virgin was raped, would she get buried alive for it?
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Jul 11, 2016 16:20
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Jack of Hearts posted:If a Vestal Virgin was raped, would she get buried alive for it? Well, Elagabalus had a go at one and she lived at least until his assassination
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Jul 11, 2016 16:41
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SlothfulCobra posted:I didn't know that ultra-orthodox Jews impeding archaeologists was a thing. Archeology must be a really complicated field to manage the politics of. The Philistines have been known for a long time. They were a tribe or two of Sea Peoples that Egypt gave some land to in exchange for peace. The main issue is their origin. They have long been assumed to be generally Greek, but this should pin it down more specifically.
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Jul 11, 2016 17:38
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NLJP posted:Well, Elagabalus had a go at one and she lived at least until his assassination I was reading about certain religious fanatics in our present days who have executed rape victims for their supposed sexual misbehavior. Their motivations are wholly different from the Romans, and it seems unlikely to me that the victim would have to die, but on the other hand, what do you do with a Vestal Virgin who isn't a virgin? That's my real question. I feel in my (non-scholarly) reading of classical historians there are various references to something like "X was put to death for the rape of a Vestal Virgin," but what happened to the Virgin in question is left unsaid. Did the Romans maybe have a different perception of virginity than we do?
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Jul 11, 2016 18:20
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What I'd read somewhere was that for Vestal Virgins who got raped or otherwise lost their virginity, they were usually quietly shuffled off to temples/etc for other purposes, even though they were "supposed to" be killed for it. I'm not sure how accurate that is
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Jul 11, 2016 18:26
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fishmech posted:What I'd read somewhere was that for Vestal Virgins who got raped or otherwise lost their virginity, they were usually quietly shuffled off to temples/etc for other purposes, even though they were "supposed to" be killed for it. I'm not sure how accurate that is Would make sense, one of the big pieces of evidence for how scared the romans were of hannibal was that they actually sacrificed 2 people. Seems most of the old "super serious" punishments and practices were treated as antiquated and too harsh.
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Jul 11, 2016 18:57
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Vestal Virgins retired eventually anyway, so just leaving the order early seems like the most likely resolution. Death for violation of vows was more of a Kingdom and very early Republic thing.
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Jul 11, 2016 19:02
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Would make sense, one of the big pieces of evidence for how scared the romans were of hannibal was that they actually sacrificed 2 people. Seems most of the old "super serious" punishments and practices were treated as antiquated and too harsh. I remember being nonplussed by how dispassionately Livy mentioned that. It really must have been the Great Patriotic War times a dozen for them.
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Jul 11, 2016 19:06
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Would make sense, one of the big pieces of evidence for how scared the romans were of hannibal was that they actually sacrificed 2 people. Seems most of the old "super serious" punishments and practices were treated as antiquated and too harsh. Decimation was another one of these iirc. One emperor (claudius?) got super pissed and decided to decimate his army. Nobody remembered how to do it properly so they just killed 10 guys and called it a day.
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Jul 11, 2016 19:18
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Come to think of it decimation was treated the same way. When Crassus revived it apparently most people were like "really? what the gently caress?" Same for the other smattering of times generals used it post 100 BC.
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Jul 11, 2016 19:19
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