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I heard they got fewer furious letters over Kirk and Uhura than they expected. I think the only one that got reported was some Southern guy saying "I do not approve of the mixing of the races... however when a red blooded American like Kirk ends up with a woman who looks like Uhura in his arms, this response of his is only natural." I'd agree that the progressive content of Trek in so far as representation goes can easily be overrated. The progressiveness in it that I see, fumbling and imperfect as it is, is more of an attitude thing: "the future will not necessarily be brutal grinding shittiness." As for the money talk in the others in TOS: the obvious reason is that they hadn't decided the Federation was explicitly a moneyless economy at that point (even  had cash after all). But I imagine the hew-mons still knew what money was in the broad sense, sort of like a lot of farming metaphors are still broadly understood or used even if most people don't farm any more.
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Jul 9, 2016 19:37
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Nessus posted:I heard they got fewer furious letters over Kirk and Uhura than they expected. I think the only one that got reported was some Southern guy saying "I do not approve of the mixing of the races... however when a red blooded American like Kirk ends up with a woman who looks like Uhura in his arms, this response of his is only natural." "I don't like the blacks but I sure would like to have sex with one."
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Jul 9, 2016 19:43
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FilthyImp posted:Actually Voyager is very progressive. It shows us that alien blacktinas, negroid Vulcans, cat pedophiles, autistic robochicks, holohumans, space Indians and Harry KIm can all become boring, bland honkeys. It doesn't matter who you are, what you believe, or where you came from; you're telling bad jokes while sipping replicated tea in a set of technicolor pajamas.
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Jul 9, 2016 19:44
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Rhyno posted:Sulu's sexuality is so repressed that in STIII he locked another dude in a closet. That was Uhura who locked a guy in a closet. Sulu flipped a big burly security guard on his back and told him "Don't call me Tiny."
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Jul 9, 2016 20:39
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Cojawfee posted:"I don't like the blacks but I sure would like to have sex with one." - Earth, Jefferson, 1795
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Jul 9, 2016 20:44
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Apollodorus posted:- Earth, Jefferson, 1795 - Earth, Limbaugh, 2016
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Jul 9, 2016 21:16
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- Earth, Thurmond, 1924
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Jul 9, 2016 21:20
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I think the point is, that's not an uncommon sentiment...
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Jul 9, 2016 21:23
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Astroman posted:Pegg just said something that's making the rounds to the effect of "things are different in this timeline, so for whatever reason Kelvin Sulu might have turned out gay but Prime Sulu might not be." I think all the differences between the normal universe and the new movies' timelines being attributed to the Kelvin/Narada encounter is kind of annoying and lazy, even as far as Star Trek reasoning is concerned. All things considered, a Romulan ship from the future isn't really that exceptional....well, I guess it did blow up Vulcan....but the Vulcans outside of Spock and their involvement in Enterprise the show, really have never been that critical to the franchise. At the very least I wish the incident that changed the timeline so drastically was a more of a protracted conflict. Some weirdo Romulan mucking things up because he was demented just strikes me as a boring reason for the divergence. I'd rather the writers/creators just make it different just for the sake of novelty. Either come up with a thorough reason for the timeline divergence or just say it's a reboot and let it stand on its own Merritt.
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Jul 9, 2016 21:31
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Which Merritt? Stephen Merritt from the Magnetic Fields? Nathan Merritt formerly of the South Sydney Rabbitohs?
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Jul 9, 2016 21:36
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Allen_Aldo posted:I think all the differences between the normal universe and the new movies' timelines being attributed to the Kelvin/Narada encounter is kind of annoying and lazy, even as far as Star Trek reasoning is concerned. All things considered, a Romulan ship from the future isn't really that exceptional....well, I guess it did blow up Vulcan....but the Vulcans outside of Spock and their involvement in Enterprise the show, really have never been that critical to the franchise. Well, the changes in the timeline had to have happened long before the Kelvin/Narada incident. If Kirk's dad was serving in Starfleet, the timelines were already different.
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Jul 9, 2016 21:38
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Merritt ButrickCythereal posted:Well, the changes in the timeline had to have happened long before the Kelvin/Narada incident. If Kirk's dad was serving in Starfleet, the timelines were already different. I think the whole ST09 event was a crossover between parallel timelines, and those two sections of spacetime were entwined by the red matter or some other goddamn bullshit
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Jul 9, 2016 21:38
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But seriously, I wish people would just let more stories be retold in different versions without the differences having to be explained somehow. The X-Men movies have had weird time fuckery too, though the Spider-Man movies haven't and they've been rebooted TWICE.
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Jul 9, 2016 21:39
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Cythereal posted:If Kirk's dad was serving in Starfleet, the timelines were already different. No? George Kirk was a starbase security officer.
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Jul 9, 2016 21:40
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Star Trek needs to get its head out of its rear end, seriously. It's just about spaceships and exploring poo poo and the human condition expressed via alien cultures. It doesn't matter what is or is not canon.
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Jul 9, 2016 21:46
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Canon is great when used to effectively tell interesting stories, add to the feel of a real living universe and for the occasional bit of fan service for an anniversary episode or something Like anything else, it's a depressing waste of a good thing when abused to market a bunch of "shared universe" horseshit or otherwise done poorly
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Jul 9, 2016 22:26
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:No? George Kirk was a starbase security officer. Wasn't he a farmer in Iowa who hated his son's decision to join Starfleet? Or am I getting him mixed up with Picard's family?
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Jul 9, 2016 23:58
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Cythereal posted:Wasn't he a farmer in Iowa who hated his son's decision to join Starfleet? That's Picard's dad. He was a winemaker.
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Jul 10, 2016 00:16
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Big Mean Jerk posted:That's Picard's dad. He was a winemaker. I'm sure he was no mere winemaker. He was a vintner.
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Jul 10, 2016 00:47
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Big Mean Jerk posted:That's Picard's dad. He was a winemaker who died in an offscreen fire. fixed.
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Jul 10, 2016 01:26
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Instant Sunrise posted:fixed. No that was his brother and nephew.
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Jul 10, 2016 01:38
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Nessus posted:As for the money talk in the others in TOS: the obvious reason is that they hadn't decided the Federation was explicitly a moneyless economy at that point (even
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Jul 10, 2016 01:39
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Yeah that'd make sense, since presumably replicators got widespread in between TOS and TNG. That'd probably be the point where you just stop bother keeping count on a daily basis at all.
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Jul 10, 2016 02:04
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Stop trying to make TOS material fit with post-TNG 'canon'. The writing philosophies were totally different and no such intent to build a consistent universe existed. Balance Of Terror refers to impulse as a slightly older FTL tech, for god's sake.
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Jul 10, 2016 03:19
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mossyfisk posted:Stop trying to make TOS material fit with post-TNG 'canon'. The writing philosophies were totally different and no such intent to build a consistent universe existed. 
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Jul 10, 2016 03:23
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Tighclops posted:Canon is great when used to effectively tell interesting stories, add to the feel of a real living universe and for the occasional bit of fan service for an anniversary episode or something I take the opposite view. I don't get why people get so blase or against canon, like it "ruins" the story. These universes have a large, shared history. It's no different for me as a fan to learn and know about it than it would for me to learn and know about real history I'm interested in, like the Roman Empire. I wouldn't like to watch a documentary about the Roman Empire where they play fast and loose with poo poo I thought I already knew, and for me things like Star Trek are no different. Plus it's not like the old days of the 60s-80s where most of the canon facts were hard to find, usually locked into the episodes themselves and you'd have to watch them all constantly to make sure you were being "correct." Nowadays all sorts of minutiae is cataloged and written about online and in reference books, easily indexed for anyone to see. And if a writer doesn't have time to factcheck, there are literally thousands of fans who would do it for free. Changing up or ignoring established stuff about the fictional universe annoys the poo poo out of me, whether it's a biographical fact, technical detail, or something big like completely changing the physical appearance of a character (Zefram Cochrane, Khan) especially when new characters could have been slotted into their place easily. Some canon stuff is impossible to reconcile, especially when you are dealing with stuff from the 60s-80s, before there was a large shared universe with established facts, technology, and history. Thus we'll always have vagaries about Earth history from 1990-2100 that don't make sense, or stuff like the UESPA. But there's no excuse for modern Trek movies and shows, often written and made by fans, to gently caress up canon. 
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Jul 10, 2016 04:54
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Astroman posted:These universes have a large, shared history. It's no different for me as a fan to learn and know about it than it would for me to learn and know about real history I'm interested in, like the Roman Empire. I wouldn't like to watch a documentary about the Roman Empire where they play fast and loose with poo poo I thought I already knew, and for me things like Star Trek are no different. It's hard to take you seriously when you won't even fix your spellcheck back to Romulan. 
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Jul 10, 2016 04:56
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Otisburg posted:It's hard to take you seriously when you won't even fix your spellcheck back to
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Jul 10, 2016 05:12
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Astroman posted:Changing up or ignoring established stuff about the fictional universe annoys the poo poo out of me, whether it's a biographical fact, technical detail, or something big like completely changing the physical appearance of a character You are That Guy, sorry.
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Jul 10, 2016 06:21
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Yeah no loving kidding. Saavik (which amusingly my phone autocorrects to David) isn't a real person, who cares if she looks like Rebecca Howe or like Tallera/T'paal. Come the gently caress on. I mean jfc
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Jul 10, 2016 06:42
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Astroman posted:
Wait are you talking about casting? So you think if an actor gets injured or dies, or just has other commitments a show shouldn't use the character anymore? Or they should but only if they can book the original actors clone? I mean sometimes an actor can define a role to the point were recasting or replacement can hurt, but you seem to object to it happening ever. I think times like the second part of Unification is saved by Leonard Nimoys return but someone like Ziyal from DS9 getting recast didn't seem to be that big of a deal, or the Borg Queen to pick a few examples*. *I honestly didn't notice until I was told.
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Jul 10, 2016 07:16
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To be honest, it did weaken Ziyal for me that they went through three different actors in as many episodes; it's hard to get a grip on a character when it feels like they're radically changing after every appearance. (Plus, the last casting change felt like it was at least partially motivated by someone realizing "Crap, Garak and Ziyal is creepy as hell; quick, age her up a decade or so!")
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Jul 10, 2016 07:27
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I think he's talking about more like when they decide Khan's a white guy or Zephram Cochrane's completely different personality between TOS and First Contact, rather than when they have to swap actors for real life reasons. If they had cast Saavik-A as, say, some Asian woman instead of another brunette Caucasian, it would be pretty distracting. And I agree with everything he said about canon, I like it when there's a rich in-universe environment to get immersed it. Otherwise it's like why bother even watching if anything that happens can be retconned later when some writer gets a different idea. I'm not talking about little things like messing up stardates or character's extended family trees or something like that, but when they can't keep straight the number of decks their starship has it just seems lazy.
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Jul 10, 2016 09:40
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egon_beeblebrox posted:No that was his brother and nephew. Agh. Now he's going to be bummed out next time he watches Family. 
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Jul 10, 2016 10:01
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There is no "quantum flux". There's no "auxiliary". THERE'S NO GODDAMNED SHIP. You got it?
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Jul 10, 2016 11:21
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Otisburg posted:There is no "quantum flux". There's no "auxiliary". THERE'S NO GODDAMNED SHIP. You got it? It's all real
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Jul 10, 2016 11:37
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Just watched "If Wishes were Horses" on my new DS9 runthrough and couldn't help thinking how awesome it would have been to have the Rumpelstiltskin from Once Upon a Time rather than that second rate goblin.
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Jul 10, 2016 12:10
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Knormal posted:I think he's talking about more like when they decide Khan's a white guy or Zephram Cochrane's completely different personality between TOS and First Contact, Cochrane had a personality in TOS?!
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Jul 10, 2016 12:31
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Cochrane had a personality in TOS?! Standard issue 50s b-movie white male scientist. It's puzzling that they forgot his pipe.
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Jul 10, 2016 15:08
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The best episode of Star Trek was "Galaxy Quest"
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Jul 10, 2016 15:35
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