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Kitchner posted:So I need some advice. I'd recommend playing Machiavelli. You're in no actual hurry to kill off Archaon - while everyone is focused on Chaos, this is the best time to build confederations, war coordinate buddies north to fight Vikings, make gigantic amounts of trade agreement dough, and so on and so forth. As long as the Chaos Warriors are under control, feel free to drag out the war for your own political advantage.
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Jul 10, 2016 23:46
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On that topic, just completed Hard Dwarves long campaign on turn 87. Highlight was kicking Grimgor's butt all over the Badlands, then sacking the VC over and over until they chose to become vassals. Ended up literally allied with the entire map, except Archaon and his Norsca buddies. Turns out I'm reaally incompetent vs Chaos as Dwarves in battle. Oops. But the NE corner of the map was literally covered in full stacks of my allied troops, and Chaos was utterly wrecked. Got a bit dicey trying to grab a few provinces for the victory condition. Empire declared war on VC, who I happily released as my vassals to be convenient punching bag for the entire world. Bribed the rest with my saved up 200k in dwarven gold to keep them happy until I won.
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Jul 10, 2016 23:56
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Kainser posted:When they add chaos dwarfs I won't play anything else because nothing comes close to their hats What if Ogre Kingdoms have maneater units that are wearing Chaos Dwarf hats?
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Jul 11, 2016 00:04
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Kitchner posted:So I need some advice. If you're in the late late game post chaos you should have an unstoppable doom stack of demigryphs and steam tanks that no AI army will be able to beat because they insist on building lower level units that don't accomplish anything. Just go start sacking the poo poo out of everything without taking losses and drain their treasuries dry. As long as you win battles you'll win the battle of attrition.
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Jul 11, 2016 00:04
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Congrats to Doc Crime, we had some hard fought games and he came out 3-2.
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Jul 11, 2016 00:19
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Carnalfex posted:Congrats to Doc Crime, we had some hard fought games and he came out 3-2. rockopete posted:Chomp won all 3 of our games, well fought!
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Jul 11, 2016 00:25
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. Good call bringing Chaos spawn, I hate those unbreakable sacks of hp. Fate of Bjuna barely takes a third of their health.
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How are you supposed to use Steam Tanks? Like, for me they just seem like really lovely cannons that have a lot of HP. I don't even think they have a charge bonus that high, so punching through lines and using them for a medieval blitzkrieg is a no go.
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Jul 11, 2016 00:32
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Archonex posted:How are you supposed to use Steam Tanks? Stick them on the flanks. At the start of the battle drive forward and start shooting (I like to target the enemy general), falling back to your line as the enemy approaches. Once the lines clash advance them slightly and use enfilading fire (raking along the enemy line), this is deadly with cannonballs. If needed use them to engage enemy flankers in melee.
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Jul 11, 2016 00:46
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Olive Branch posted:Be sure you took replays and give us more breakdowns on unit composition and strategy! Or will Yukitsu bless us with that? Unfortunately I don't think got a replay of every game. But the 4th and 5th games were both Chaos v Dwaves and it seemed like the deciding factor in both cases was the Chaos' totally inability to deal with gyrocopters. Wraiths stomped my butt in our first match, VC vs Empire.
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Jul 11, 2016 00:52
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The Lone Badger posted:Stick them on the flanks. At the start of the battle drive forward and start shooting (I like to target the enemy general), falling back to your line as the enemy approaches. I get that formations are a big part of their use, but I guess my question is --- Why take steam tanks over artillery? Like hellstorm rockets and even mortars seem to just annihilate stuff compared to their single cannon and steam cannon. And the main cannon on a steam tank seems really weak compared to the empire cannon used to take out larger/monstrous units. An Arachno-whatever or even a giant will just straight up charge into a group of tanks and knock them down one by one while they just machine gun fire into it without it caring or taking much damage at all. Granted, the steam cannon seems to roast lighter infantry, but at that point why not just screen some common artillery with infantry and have them blast entire chunks out of the blobbed up enemies from behind your lines? What do they do that makes them a better choice than other artillery units? Is it the terror trait that makes them so appealing? I thought that required being close to enemies, which invalidates their ranged abilities since I think they'd switch to melee attacks only? Also, I notice that height-wise both cannons on the tank are higher up than infantry. Can they fire over top of infantry? Because if so that's something. Having advancing artillery (It gets more accurate as enemies get closer.) accompanying tanks that can fire explosive shells and whatever damage type steam damage is would be very useful. Edit: As a side note, Grenadier outriders are absolutely devastating due to means of firing and possibly height advantage. Their low fire rate, short range, single fire direction requirement, and squishiness means that they aren't really good for being main harassers. But holy poo poo if you stick them behind infantry like they're normal ranged units two units of them can single-handedly route entire armies (And probably murder the gently caress out of any allied screening troops until they level up and get more accurate. But still.) by creating a never-ending wall of explosions. Ditto if you mod them in as normal ranged infantry without the horse. I did a test map with nothing but a bunch of dismounted grenadiers versus a full stack of zombies and a few vampire hero's and the carnage was incredible. It made the chaos a bunch of hellstorm rockets produce seem tame by comparison. My top of the line machine finally almost came to a halt as a result of the sheer amount of particle effects. Also, I discovered from that that the the explosions from grenadier units not only disrupt ranks and tear apart everything from zombies to chosen, but also knock them down and prevent units from attacking due to being stunlocked. Archonex fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Jul 11, 2016 |
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Jul 11, 2016 01:07
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So I wasn't going to get this until it went on sale or an expansion added more factions I like or I cleared some of my backlog but whoops what how'd it end up in my library anyway I don't remember clicking that buy button at all hey where'd my weekend go? I haven't played a TW since I got burned on buying Empire at release but wow no regrets on this one AT ALL. I started my first campaign as VCs (since I hate them the least of the initial roster) and I've managed to do pretty well strategically - I'm probably going to win this despite my subpar tactical game. (I remember how to play well enough to still win but my micro/reaction time isn't perfect so I lose a lot more troops than I feel I should, but hey I'm VCs who cares about losses?). It's helped that the Greenskins were the only major faction to do a decent job rounding up their minor factions, and then spent a hundred turns eliminating the Dwarfs before now mostly being kept too busy by a huge Savage Orc presence in the south to really bother me much at all besides sending the occasional stack to get butchered. Meanwhile the Empire never really got off the ground. They only managed to confederate Stirland and Ostermark, then I took both those provinces off them in a war leaving them with only Altdorf. (most of the minors rolled with Imperial Distrust so they may just have been hosed from day 1). Then Chaos showed up. Sigvald and Kholek razed literally everything outside of my territory between Praag and Bretonnia before Archaon ever made an appearance, while STILL ignoring me - then when Archaon spawned and they finally turned on me, all four of their LL stacks died like chumps without any really challenging fights (aside from that one where the AI reinforcements appeared directly behind me and my reinforcements appeared three screens behind them, which I reloaded because fuuuuuck that). Now I've been spending the past forty turns colonizing ruins, burning Orc settlements, and rebuilding my alarmingly vast territory in a more efficient way (I had way too many recruitment buildings before). I'll probably restart as Bretonnia or something once I finish either the quest chains or campaign objectives, but I have a couple of questions (finally!): 1) is it even possible to vassalize the remaining Empire minors as VCs, or should I just backstab and kill them? We've been NAPped forever because I wanted them off my back while I dealt with Karl Franz and then Chaos, and they're asking for military alliances already but the "probability of accepting" vassalization never moves off Low no matter how much money I include in the deal. Do the Aversion and Great Power diplo penalties mean I'm just hosed on that plan? Kind of a shame if so, it's pretty much the von Carstein-est ending to have What's Left of the Empire finally peacefully acclaim him as overlord. Also, it seems like I still can't issue commandments to provinces where I own three settlements and a military ally owns the fourth even though this thread says I can, is that a bug or do I need to vassalize/kill them to get all of Reikland? 2) I know you can teleport to quest battles for money, but will it teleport you back or do you have to walk? Because gently caress sending VC armies to eat four turns worth of attrition walking back from the buttfuck Badlands after a major battle, for a couple of items. 3) Are VCs meant to be using Skeleton Spearmen as anti-cav forever, or is there some better alternative I'm missing? (besides just using better cav or swarming them with Vargheists, which are pretty awesome alternatives but kinda pricey!)
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Jul 11, 2016 01:13
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Kitchner posted:So I need some advice. It's a little counterintuitive, but one thing that helped me a lot on VH was conquering the Brettonian sub-factions (Tilea, Carcasonne, Parvonia, etc) first. They're surprisingly weak, they have a ton of ports, and best of all, taking their lands doesn't expose you to Viking Armageddon. In fact if you take everything to the Southern tip of the map, they're not really exposed to attack from anyone except Savage Orc spawns. It's also generally a good idea in the Empire campaign to keep an eye on diplomacy and bribe any of the provinces that start hating you and you don't want to fight right now.
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Jul 11, 2016 01:13
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Obstacle2 posted:Unfortunately I don't think got a replay of every game. But the 4th and 5th games were both Chaos v Dwaves and it seemed like the deciding factor in both cases was the Chaos' totally inability to deal with gyrocopters. I haven't tried it out but couldn't Chaos use Manticore riders and Marauder Horsemen with Throwing Axes against gyrocopters?
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Jul 11, 2016 01:13
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Triskelli posted:I haven't tried it out but couldn't Chaos use Manticore riders and Marauder Horsemen with Throwing Axes against gyrocopters? Chaos doesn't get manticore units in any significant quantity unless you're running the Chaos Undivided mod. If you do have it you can get manticore riders which show how hilariously destructive a bunch of manticores working in sync can be. Dwarves probably win out on any air focused strategy against Chaos. You'd need to spend money on an exalted hero and their best mount to get a decent anti air unit. Plus dwarves can literally swarm you with gyrocopters (Though it's only a good idea if you're some sort of freak of nature that can micro the bombs properly.) compared to your one or two manticore units. While they're slowly knocking individual copters out of the sky the rest of the aerial units can be blowing the hell out of any Chaos units that were stupid enough to slow down and engage in a fight. And to be fair, if you're good enough to place gyrocopter bombs accurately in MP the dwarf player probably deserves to win with the current meta. Using the "have them move to the opposite side of a target and pause when they're over top of them" strategy from single player isn't possible there.  Edit: The best strategy I can think of for countering Dwarves vs Chaos with an army that leans heavy on gyrocopters would be to go mobile yourself. IE: Lots of mounted marauders, knights, any moderately fast monsters like Chaos Spawn, maybe some trolls for their regenerative soak, and some warriors to even things out for the inevitable clash of armies. Basically you'd want to bait them into dropping bombs on your mobile units when they could disengage quickly and force them to miss the majority of their targets. Ditto for making them tag trolls, if you could somehow avoid them getting into melee until they were healed up. This is of course assuming that there's not some sort of secret trick to using gyrocopter bombs properly that i've missed. In which case Chaos is probably hosed. Archonex fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Jul 11, 2016 |
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Jul 11, 2016 01:15
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Archonex posted:I get that formations are a big part of their use, but I guess my question is --- Why take steam tanks over artillery? Steam tanks are incredibly self sufficient. Normal artillery is great if protected but kinda suck if out of position or if the enemy harasses them with fliers or cavalry. Steam tanks don't have that problem. They can drive anywhere on the battlefield with impunity to dish out damage.
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Jul 11, 2016 01:19
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How much of an effect do Curse of Undeath and Life Leeching have does anyone know? Googling around they seem to be damp squibs for a general leading an army of high tier units at least. Also, anyone know if the last ability in the Vampire Lord combat line (think it's called Red Mist, or Red Rage) affects the casteras well as nearby allies? I know the precursor ability doesn't
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Jul 11, 2016 01:21
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Curse of Undeath is a must-have in any army, it isn't that great on necromancers who are basically only casting nehek, but on a hero like Manfredd with some of the best magic in the game who can cast over a dozen spells in a battle all that extra healing you poo poo out basically doubles the staying power of your undead armies
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Jul 11, 2016 01:25
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Surprise Giraffe posted:How much of an effect do Curse of Undeath and Life Leeching have does anyone know? Googling around they seem to be damp squibs for a general leading an army of high tier units at least. Also, anyone know if the last ability in the Vampire Lord combat line (think it's called Red Mist, or Red Rage) affects the casteras well as nearby allies? I know the precursor ability doesn't They're sort of useful if you're going to be casting high duration spells. Otherwise leave them off the hero or lord. If you time Mannfred's Black Arts with a couple Life Leeching bonuses I think they'll stack and you'll pretty much have infinite mana to work with. Really, i'd take Curse of Undeath for combat focused characters either way. If only because you're basically healing your entire army a small amount no matter where they are on the field. It can add up in long attrition fights on an army build that has near infinite magic reserves. Which Vampires can easily get with a little bit of luck and some careful equipment builds in the campaign. WarpedLichen posted:Steam tanks are incredibly self sufficient. Normal artillery is great if protected but kinda suck if out of position or if the enemy harasses them with fliers or cavalry. Steam tanks don't have that problem. They can drive anywhere on the battlefield with impunity to dish out damage. This is good to know. Maybe my tests just aren't balanced right. Guess it's time to give them another shot in a few test battles.
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Jul 11, 2016 01:25
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Dallan Invictus posted:So I wasn't going to get this until it went on sale or an expansion added more factions I like or I cleared some of my backlog but whoops what how'd it end up in my library anyway I don't remember clicking that buy button at all hey where'd my weekend go? I haven't played a TW since I got burned on buying Empire at release but wow no regrets on this one AT ALL. I'm not sure what calculations go into letting you vassalise. It seems like you pretty much need to be in a war with them, and have knocked them around a bit. I've never been able to vassalise in peacetime. 2. It does teleport you back. Your army basically doesn't move. 3. Grave guard are reasonably tanky vs cavalry charges. Otherwise, you are indeed expected to use your own monsters and cavalry for this.
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Jul 11, 2016 01:29
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Olive Branch posted:Be sure you took replays and give us more breakdowns on unit composition and strategy! Or will Yukitsu bless us with that? The first match I tried to just outlast Doc and grind him down with attrition using heals and units with regeneration and physical resistance (so heals were more effective). He came really close to finishing off Mannfred and my necro hero a couple times and managed to totally wipe out a couple squads so I could no longer heal them. He made good use of cav charges, arty bombardment, and Karl Franz beatdowns to shock units down once he realized my main goal was to maintain a protracted slugfest and slowly win through the undead's stubborn refusal to die. I mostly managed to keep my lord and hero safe behind/inside other squads though, so he was never able to finish them off and stop me from using all my mana on buffs and heals. In the end the regeneration, general leadership buff, and defensive magic allowed me to pull through the melee grind. Second game Doc went fairly heavy cavalry as greenskins which helped him a lot as I was doing a poor job dealing with his mobile threat. His giant spider was also monstrous, with me not really sure how to handle it. I tried targeting it with my steam tank but that really didn't seem to work out for me very well as it kept on the move quite a lot avoiding most fire directed at it. I also didn't get much use at all out of the grenade outriders I brought, tearing up one infantry squad before being forced to flee for most of the rest of the battle as Doc's cavalry constantly pressured them. Once our infantry lines clashed the orcs overran the empire foot soldiers. I also didn't use Karl very well as he took tons of fire from archers and magic without helping very much. Third game was fairly close. I got some good spells off tearing up his terrorgheist, black knights, and ghosts. The giants I brought seemed to be doing a solid job of stomping the line infantry, but in retrospect despite the amount of damage they did it was mostly on zombies and skeletons, allowing more dangerous units to put the hurt on the line orcs I had brought. My doomdivers got a few hits in but were shut down pretty quickly. I think they actually helped a decent amount just by virtue of forcing some high cost units into a situation where they could be swamped with orcs and/or nuked. We both lost a lot of units but once Azhag went down orc morale started breaking and the tide turned. Game four and five were very similar to each other with each of us taking turns as dwarves and chaos. We both quickly figured out that armor piercing brimstone gyrocopters are brutal against chaos. They are mobile enough to outmaneuver the only real answer chaos has, the axe chucker viking cavalry. Doc went heavier on armored spikeymans and I went heavier on mutant chaos spawn monstrosities and giants, but in the end both lost protracted fights against a dwarf line backed up by relatively unmolested range threats and heroes. Carnalfex fucked around with this message at 11:08 on Jul 11, 2016 |
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Jul 11, 2016 01:37
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Olive Branch posted:Be sure you took replays and give us more breakdowns on unit composition and strategy! Or will Yukitsu bless us with that? Been recording rundowns all day. Trying to get into the mood of the fast talking e-sports commentator. Triskelli posted:I haven't tried it out but couldn't Chaos use Manticore riders and Marauder Horsemen with Throwing Axes against gyrocopters? personally I use fireballs. One fireball seems to take out one gyrocopter. Yukitsu fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Jul 11, 2016 |
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Jul 11, 2016 01:39
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Avasculous posted:It's a little counterintuitive, but one thing that helped me a lot on VH was conquering the Brettonian sub-factions (Tilea, Carcasonne, Parvonia, etc) first. They're surprisingly weak, they have a ton of ports, and best of all, taking their lands doesn't expose you to Viking Armageddon. In fact if you take everything to the Southern tip of the map, they're not really exposed to attack from anyone except Savage Orc spawns. How do you get there from Drakenhof without going through most of the Empire? Or do you abandon your starting province?
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Jul 11, 2016 01:41
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The Lone Badger posted:How do you get there from Drakenhof without going through most of the Empire? Or do you abandon your starting province? You can go through Stirland and Averheim to get to the Border Princes?
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Jul 11, 2016 02:00
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WarpedLichen posted:You can go through Stirland and Averheim to get to the Border Princes? Then sail to Bretonnia? Seems to leave you with a two-part kingdom, not sure if that's a problem.
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Jul 11, 2016 02:06
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Tilea is way in the South with Estalia, so I assumed you were conquering your way through not Spain.
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Jul 11, 2016 02:07
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Avasculous posted:It's a little counterintuitive, but one thing that helped me a lot on VH was conquering the Brettonian sub-factions (Tilea, Carcasonne, Parvonia, etc) first. They're surprisingly weak, they have a ton of ports, and best of all, taking their lands doesn't expose you to Viking Armageddon. In fact if you take everything to the Southern tip of the map, they're not really exposed to attack from anyone except Savage Orc spawns. Tilea isn't Bretonnian, Slaanesh drat it. 
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Jul 11, 2016 02:25
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Got roped into a war with tilea and azhag gets engaged by three tilean armies. Rather than retreat into friendly territory literally right on the border next to him, azhag retreats towards the enemy settlement and another two tilean armies. Time to do some smacking and then rebuilding
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Jul 11, 2016 02:48
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Cheers for the breakdown, Carnalflex! I agree with Yukitsu on Fire Mages being good against Dwarves as Chaos. I usually take either a Death Mage or Fire Mage as them, a 50/50 coin toss, since I have come to love fireballs after seeing how powerful they can be vs. Yukitsu and in his videos.
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Jul 11, 2016 03:50
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Ammanas posted:Haha I just had grimgors starting unit of black orcs get routed by 2 AI goblin spearmen units in a head on fight on VH/H. There is definitely something off with greenskins man. The auto calc says I'll lose 50 men in a battle, play it and my units just loving melt. I've been playing Empire on Hard and I have zero problems like I did with Greenskins. There's definitely something up with Greenskins and routing too soon. I am guessing the most recent patch broke them somehow.
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Jul 11, 2016 04:51
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I literally beat the Greenskins campaign on VH a couple days ago, they work fine just like they always have. Greenskins do have low LD and break easily, it's part of their playstyle and something you have to work around. Also autoresolve is incredibly kind to them for some reason, they're the one race where using autoresolve almost feels like cheating a lot of the time.
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Jul 11, 2016 04:55
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madmac posted:I literally beat the Greenskins campaign on VH a couple days ago, they work fine just like they always have. Autoresolve seems to be extremely lenient with morale checks so orcs keep swinging away with their decent offensive stats and huge unit sizes in the autoresolve calc way longer than they normally would stick around in a real battle.
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Jul 11, 2016 05:03
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madmac posted:I literally beat the Greenskins campaign on VH a couple days ago, they work fine just like they always have. They're breaking way too quickly, especially the elite units surrounded by lords.
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Jul 11, 2016 05:11
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Olive Branch posted:Be sure you took replays and give us more breakdowns on unit composition and strategy! Or will Yukitsu bless us with that? I'm sure Yukitsu will do it better but I ran through replay of our first battle VC-Chaos and posted the run through on youtube. I may do the steam tank-pegasus fight later. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64srdApg3LI Archonex posted:I get that formations are a big part of their use, but I guess my question is --- Why take steam tanks over artillery? WarpedLichen posted:Steam tanks are incredibly self sufficient. Normal artillery is great if protected but kinda suck if out of position or if the enemy harasses them with fliers or cavalry. Steam tanks don't have that problem. They can drive anywhere on the battlefield with impunity to dish out damage. This. I was debating taking cannons instead of steam tanks, 800 for one 3 cannon unit vs 2200 for 1 steam tank. It would have been a one way slaughter rather than a rough defeat if I had. Chomp's pegasus knights would have suffered a few volleys and then torn them to shreds. The steam tanks were able to fire as they pleased unmolested and then charge into melee with a knockback when things got hairy.
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Jul 11, 2016 05:28
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My first battle with archaeon was a typical anticlimax. Had four huge orc armies move to encircle him, and he intercepted the weakest army underground and got crushed by a level one warboss leading a middling army
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Jul 11, 2016 06:04
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First set of matches that I got are up, I'll be uploading the remainder through out tomorrow. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC678gZOlRI
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Jul 11, 2016 06:13
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Yeah I won a Greenskins campaign on Hard just now and there's something squiffy between autoresolve and actually fighting out battles going on at the moment.
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Jul 11, 2016 07:18
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The Lone Badger posted:How do you get there from Drakenhof without going through most of the Empire? Or do you abandon your starting province? I was replying to a guy asking for help with Empire. GreyjoyBastard posted:Tilea isn't Bretonnian, Slaanesh drat it. Sorry, you're right. I thought everyone down there had the Brettonian unit types. Well, just kill them anyways. Sigmar will know his own!
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Jul 11, 2016 08:22
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Auto resolve is just incredibly broken, and I'd wish they'd fix it somehow, its hilarious how badly it estimates odds or values an army to the point it almost feels like its based on a completely random number generator. I find the only way to fully enjoy a campaign with any sort of challenge is to just forget that auto resolve exists for anything besides repeat mop up fights against already broken armies/garrisons. The other problem with auto resolve is that its also very misleading for anyone newer to the game in terms of giving an idea of how hard a fight would be with the "balance of power", a 70-30 odds in your favor is way more likely to be a super tough fight that you can easily loose, while a 10-90 against you can be a fight you can rather easily take on with just some losses.
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Jul 11, 2016 11:47
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I was playing a dwarf campaign last night and felt as others have said orcs are overestimated or Dwarfs are underestimated. With dwarf warriors and a bunch of quarrelers you can slaughter orc armies a lot bigger that you
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Jul 11, 2016 12:23
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Dwarfs are incredibly buff in the early game. Warriors and Quarrelers are top-notch units and you can recruit them both from turn 3. Their later units aren't gamechangers like the tier 4 / 5 Empire units though (though Ironbreakers are the toughest thing in the game)
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Jul 11, 2016 12:27
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