|
So, just about finished my Orc campaign. I definitely find fights against the Empire, Brettonia or Warriors of Chaos to be a much more even match than a battle against Dwarfs or Vampire Counts. Chaos Warriors have a decent challenge due to their high level warriors, but they also have marauders to give their stacks some variety and provide areas for Orcs to exploit along their battle line. Empire has decent morale and a huge range of units that make them fun to fight against, and theirs and Brettonia's cavalry focus actually give you a good reason to use orc archer units. But Dwarfs and Vampire Counts are just unfun slogs due to their ungodly morale, samey armies, and the fact that killing their hero does poo poo all. Even the vampire counts, which are supposed to be a lynchpin army where killing the hero should cause them to crumble, take way too long to do so, leading up to heavy casualties while you just wait for an arbitrary timer to run out and the enemy turns to dust. For Dwarfs, I get it, you need a high morale army to cover your lack of mobility, but you also have a poo poo ton of armour, which makes exploiting any weaknesses along the line hopeless as a unit of regular dwarf warriors will frequently fight to the death against three orc boy units which have no chance of overwhelming them. And that's just the basic warrior unit. I'm fine with something like Longbeards fighting to the death, but regular dwarfs are just too frustrating. I'd either drop their morale somewhat to make them more likely to rout when ganged up on, or make it so that if you do manage to rout them at all, they immediately shatter and don't regroup. I have yet to have a fight with Dwarfs on even numbers that didn't end with a close or pyrrhic victory because the bastards will just not loving die. This is also using armor piercing units and rock lobbers. It also doesn't help that Orcs don't get much that can stand up to basic dwarf units until tier three buildings are unlocked, and even then Big'Uns sacrifice a shield and so get mulched by Quarrelers, who are also strong in melee and will tie up your cavalry if you decide to harass their rear lines.
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2016 19:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 20:30 |
|
|
Angry Lobster posted:Fun matches, really liked the second one, dwarfs vs vampires, it was all good and great for the undead until Mannfred died and his army went poof!. The last match was a bit of a clusterfuck, corner camping aside, the dwarfs were completely surrounded and in a completely hopeless position and a few minutes later the entire group of brettonian infantry was gone, and it was the major part of the army, that shows that peasants aren't trustwhorthy, except the ones manning the trebuchets. Yeah, these were my first real multiplayer matches and it was a lot of fun. I played the vampires in the second match and the dwarfs in the last one. As the dwarfs, I was terrified of the greater bretonnian mobility, which is why I tried to keep in a block formation as I inched forward. In the end, it wasn't enough to counter the cavalry's ability to cycle charge but it was really tense for a while. I think I may have been able to win the vamp vs dwarf match if I had just been more careful with Mannfred at the end there, but 420gankmid played really well and I had no problems admitting defeat. My most embarrassing match was definitely my loss as Empire though, I completely failed to redeploy once I saw that his initial position completely countered mine. No idea what I was thinking there, but I'll just be sure to do better next time!
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2016 19:48
|
|
|
madmac posted:CA has said stuff in interviews like "Lets just say you'll definitely not be paying for Brettonia" that makes it really obvious that they're the FLC race, but they're not scheduled to come out for a while even so. Where would we be guessing the Beastmen would start? If I had to guess, maybe work them in between the southern borders of the Brettonian area and Tilea somewhat close-ish to the wood elf hellforest. It would give that area of the map some strategic purpose rather than the plurality of the action being mostly centered toward the east half of the map.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2016 19:48
|
|
|
DeathSandwich posted:Where would we be guessing the Beastmen would start? If I had to guess, maybe work them in between the southern borders of the Brettonian area and Tilea somewhat close-ish to the wood elf hellforest. It would give that area of the map some strategic purpose rather than the plurality of the action being mostly centered toward the east half of the map. I would guess that big open area west of Middenland and north of Marienburg. It's currently a huge wasteland (appropriately enough) and there's enough dense forests there to make a plausible beastman start location
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2016 19:50
|
|
|
Kaza42 posted:I would guess that big open area west of Middenland and north of Marienburg. It's currently a huge wasteland (appropriately enough) and there's enough dense forests there to make a plausible beastman start location Like that area isn't already miserable enough with all the loving vikings. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2016 20:06
|
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:So, just about finished my Orc campaign. I definitely find fights against the Empire, Brettonia or Warriors of Chaos to be a much more even match than a battle against Dwarfs or Vampire Counts. Chaos Warriors have a decent challenge due to their high level warriors, but they also have marauders to give their stacks some variety and provide areas for Orcs to exploit along their battle line. Empire has decent morale and a huge range of units that make them fun to fight against, and theirs and Brettonia's cavalry focus actually give you a good reason to use orc archer units. The best thing I ever did in my Greenskin campaign was take out the Dwarves as soon as possible for the reasons stated. The fuckers simply won't die with difficulty buffs added in.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2016 20:08
|
|
|
Dwarfs really are a pain in the rear end when you aren't playing as them. And sometimes even then. You really need to get some boar boyz and tusk the poo poo out of their flank. Quarrellers more or less require you to tie them up somehow so they aren't making pincushions out of your boyz. Shooting dwarfs also seems incredibly useless. Night gobbos might be good for their artillery if they field any. Just hide them well and give them the business when their front lines are fully committed to engaging yours.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2016 20:28
|
|
|
Fangz posted:Is it actually an advantage to put Manny on a flying mount in multiplayer? Seems like he is better off on a horse, say, which lets him use his army to meat shield against sniping spells and makes him less vulnerable to missile units. Matchup dependent. It's suicide vs. Brets, a bit questionable vs. Empire but often works fine, is safe vs. Orcs but isn't necessary, shits all over dwarves and is kind of risky against chaos.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2016 20:29
|
|
|
I mostly autoresolved my way through my orc campaign when fighting dwarves, but something like this will probably work - mix of cavalry, cavalry archers, artillery and big uns. No foot archers. It's mainly a matter of timing. March up your biguns to the edge of the dwarf quarreller range and no closer. Then approach their flanks/rear with cavalry archers. The dwarves will turn their quarrellers to fire on your cavalry archers. Immediately charge your infantry as soon as the quarrellers have finished turning, and pull back your cavalry archers. Well timed, you can get your biguns stuck in before too many shots are got off. Once the quarrellers turn back to the fray you can rear charge them, shoot them, do whatever. All this time you've been softening up their warriors with your rock lobbers, of course.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2016 20:40
|
|
|
Kaza42 posted:Yeah, these were my first real multiplayer matches and it was a lot of fun. I played the vampires in the second match and the dwarfs in the last one. As the dwarfs, I was terrified of the greater bretonnian mobility, which is why I tried to keep in a block formation as I inched forward. In the end, it wasn't enough to counter the cavalry's ability to cycle charge but it was really tense for a while. I think I may have been able to win the vamp vs dwarf match if I had just been more careful with Mannfred at the end there, but 420gankmid played really well and I had no problems admitting defeat. My most embarrassing match was definitely my loss as Empire though, I completely failed to redeploy once I saw that his initial position completely countered mine. No idea what I was thinking there, but I'll just be sure to do better next time! Rewatching that Brettonia vs Dwarfs match it looked a lot closer than it felt when I was playing, didn't realize how quickly my infantry evaporated at the end there (probably in part to my own trebuchets) I think if you had brought quarrellers instead of thunderers and had you taken a strong line at the crest of the hill instead of a box at the top you could have beaten me pretty soundly
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2016 21:15
|
|
|
One fun thing you can do as greenskins against dwarfs is artillery the poo poo out of them with catapults (and later, doom divers) and make them come to you. Also, cavalry to charge into their flanks is a must and is a case when regular boar boyz may be the superior option since they have shields. Either way, you shouldn't let them get shot at for long. Try to get their warriors mixed in the goblins and boyz while your boar riders hit the quarrelers and grudge throwers over and over. Early on you can cause a lot of trouble with wolf riders. Sometimes the AI will break off a couple of units to deal with you if you dance just outside of their range. They aren't great to add to your 'real' army but since a lot of garrisons have them you may as well make them useful. You can also charge them in and out of quarrelers to keep them occupied and do a little bit of damage. The key is to avoid the warriors and hit the quarrelers, since the warriors don't do much damage.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2016 22:01
|
|
|
420 Gank Mid posted:Rewatching that Brettonia vs Dwarfs match it looked a lot closer than it felt when I was playing, didn't realize how quickly my infantry evaporated at the end there (probably in part to my own trebuchets) I was expecting more heavy cavalry than the light infantry you ended up pinning me with, hence taking thunderers to pierce their armor. I probably should have trusted the sturdy dwarfs to stand up to the charges more
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2016 22:13
|
|
|
Well the tzeentch daemon is prowling around the border princes uncomfortably close to barak varr, so time to cancel my romp through the empire. Barak varr is a fortress however so should it be besieged I can hold out long enough to get two stacks back home while leaving the third and it's waaagh to distract the empire. Meanwhile azhag finally has his crown and is happily attacking the northern empire provinces plus loving over any skaelings coming down for a fight. Altdorf is a smoking crater that gave me a juicy 35000 teef for razing it first however. That was fun.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2016 23:01
|
|
|
Watching that video, coordination between cavalry and infantry seems generally kinda poor in multiplayer. But I guess that stuff is pretty hard if you can't just pause and issue orders. With respect to that final battle between Brets and Dwarves, surely the Brets would have been much better off positioning their trebuchets someplace with a forest between them and the enemy and just firing away to force the dwarves to come to them from the beginning? Given that the dwarves have no indirect fire artillery, they could have done a lot of damage. Fangz fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Jul 12, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2016 00:01
|
|
|
I've got a soft spot for Beastmen, even if the army was terrible the last few editions of warhammer TT. I like the lore and the skirmish/ambush feel of the army. It would be neat if they gave the bulk of Beastmen units vanguard deployment, at least while in forests
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2016 00:05
|
|
|
Grumio posted:I've got a soft spot for Beastmen, even if the army was terrible the last few editions of warhammer TT. I like the lore and the skirmish/ambush feel of the army. I once saw a funny multiplayer match in Attila, where both sides brought celtic armies and ambushed each other's deployment areas. No real point being made here, just remembering a funny story. Also amusing: when both sides in a battle deploy their hidden ambush troops in the same stand of trees, seeing them get wiped out two seconds into the fight
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2016 00:10
|
|
|
Grumio posted:I've got a soft spot for Beastmen, even if the army was terrible the last few editions of warhammer TT. I like the lore and the skirmish/ambush feel of the army. Me too, they have changed a lot through the years since they decided that Chaos should not be a single army but three, to the worse unfortunately.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2016 00:15
|
|
|
Goblins are hilariously bad to use vs chaos on Legendary, they practically rout from adjacency alone
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2016 00:18
|
|
|
Kaza42 posted:I once saw a funny multiplayer match in Attila, where both sides brought celtic armies and ambushed each other's deployment areas. No real point being made here, just remembering a funny story. Also amusing: when both sides in a battle deploy their hidden ambush troops in the same stand of trees, seeing them get wiped out two seconds into the fight I have done that in this game online. I deployed my wolf riders in the exact spot he put outriders, so the instant the battle started there were fight notifications and it just like wtf!!!
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2016 00:28
|
|
|
Had a fight in a greenskins campaign where Chaos Gathering decided to attack Grimgor's WAAAGH while it was using the underway, Grimgor reinforced and the autoresolve odds were as close to 100% as you can get, so I decided to play the fight to have some fun and kill the feathery bastard. Well, Chaos and the WAAAGH were set up on opposite sides of the underway, and I started the battle, only to notice that I had the reinforce bug. My entire stack ran pretty much one by one into immediate melee range and got chumped by chariots/chosen/birdman, and all the while, the waagh just sat there and watched. I just reloaded and ran the autoresolve for the easiest win of my life.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2016 00:43
|
|
|
Yeah reinforcement and retreat paths are still hosed in this game. Also waaagh armies are kind of wonky where enemies can sometimes target them and attack them even if they moved alongside their mother force without the main stack being in range. I know lightning strike can let you attack before reinforcements arrive but sometimes waaagh wander off in the wrong direction and get ganked the same turn they spawn. I'd also like to see better units spawn in certain waaagh armies. Maybe make a skill that increases the chance to spawn waaagh stacks with higher value forces.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2016 00:52
|
|
|
thorgrim the chair dwarf posted:Once more we will ally with the Manlings, just as Grimnir did ten-score centuries ago does the warhammer fantasy timeline really go back 20000 years or is thorgrim confused here
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2016 01:11
|
|
|
Flavahbeast posted:does the warhammer fantasy timeline really go back 20000 years or is thorgrim confused here When it comes to Dwarfs and history who knows.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2016 01:14
|
|
|
Kaza42 posted:I was expecting more heavy cavalry than the light infantry you ended up pinning me with, hence taking thunderers to pierce their armor. I probably should have trusted the sturdy dwarfs to stand up to the charges more I thought for sure it was going to be a loss vs Dwarves because the halberds are basically the only armor piercing troops for Brettonia so I just piled in as many as I thought I could put to use
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2016 01:16
|
|
|
Flavahbeast posted:does the warhammer fantasy timeline really go back 20000 years or is thorgrim confused here Not really, only goes back 17000 years or so, when the Old Ones arrived at the planet, other life existed before that like dragons and such, but the planet was a frozen wasteland back then. Grimnir lived during the first great war against Chaos and that was much more recent than that, so dunno, probably something is wrong. Angry Lobster fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Jul 12, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2016 01:20
|
|
|
Sigmar fought alongside Grimnir ~2500 years ago. So onescore centuries ago, give or take 500 years
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2016 01:29
|
|
|
Flavahbeast posted:does the warhammer fantasy timeline really go back 20000 years or is thorgrim confused here Are you calling Thorgrim a liar? Sounds like a grudgin' to me.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2016 01:29
|
|
|
Not a liar just old
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2016 01:30
|
|
|
Angry Lobster posted:Not really, only goes back 17000 years or so, when the Old Ones arrived at the planet, other life existed before that like dragons and such, but the planet was a frozen wasteland back then. Grimnir lived during the first great war against Chaos and that was much more recent than that, so dunno, probably something is wrong. When you consider that fact, technology in warhammer has advanced blisteringly fast.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2016 01:30
|
|
|
Kaza42 posted:Sigmar fought alongside Grimnir ~2500 years ago. So onescore centuries ago, give or take 500 years
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2016 01:32
|
|
|
Safety Factor posted:Sigmar didn't fight alongside Grimnir, Grimnir was gone way before he ever arrived on the scene. Sigmar founded the Empire like 2500 years ago though and was cool with the Dwarfs. Agreed, the only moment Grimnir and Sigmar met is in the Age of Sigmar lore. unwantedplatypus posted:When you consider that fact, technology in warhammer has advanced blisteringly fast. True, but if you consider that the Old Ones and the Slann had super high tech, like technology capable of moving the planet into a closer orbit to the sun and spaceships, the world still had a long way to go, sadly it imploded before that. However, the Slan and the lizardmen escaped the destruction of the world with said spaceships, so it was not a total loss.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2016 01:38
|
|
|
Angry Lobster posted:
It's a shame they killed the setting. It would have been super cool to see the timeline advanced. Brettonian Napoleon, weapons factories under skavenblight, mass-production of steam tanks.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2016 01:45
|
|
|
"Once more we will ally with the Manlings, just as Grimnir did ten-score centuries ago" I thought this was referring to Sigmar fighting alongside the dwarfs against the orcs. When did Grimnir ally with the manlings then?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2016 01:56
|
|
|
As an aside, Thorgrim has an incredible voice actor.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2016 02:10
|
|
|
unwantedplatypus posted:It's a shame they killed the setting. It would have been super cool to see the timeline advanced. Brettonian Napoleon, weapons factories under skavenblight, mass-production of steam tanks. There are already weapons factories in Skavenblight. Clan Skryre basically operates on World War 1 level technology with their warpstone powered ratling guns and chemical warfare. drat Dirty Ape posted:As an aside, Thorgrim has an incredible voice actor. As does Azhag the Slaughterer. Grimgor is great for being straightforward and smashy, but Azhag sounds like an Orc trying to be sophisticated, and kind of pulling it off.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2016 02:22
|
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:
...Hat's grumbling.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2016 02:24
|
|
|
drat Dirty Ape posted:Are you calling Thorgrim a liar? Sounds like a grudgin' to me. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2016 02:27
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2016 02:30
|
|
|
Beautiful.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2016 02:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 20:30 |
|
|
lol
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2016 02:39
|
|
