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Countblanc posted:in case no one mentioned it, Ana's super is basically an Install, and im glad I'm just calling it a mini-Uber and I don't even care if there's an actual TF2 thing that fits it better. I'll use Nana's Xmas money to Uber to their stupid turret nest
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Jul 12, 2016 23:27
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Dias posted:I'm just happy pubbies will be able to pick their snipers on Anubis offense and meaningfully contribute to the team, for a change. 
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Jul 12, 2016 23:28
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I don't know what you're all talking about, the quad Dva pro game rush strat was hilarious to watch. Though I guess it would be pretty silly with the incoming buffs.
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Jul 12, 2016 23:28
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MinibarMatchman posted:lol please tell me about the "dynamism" of stacking 3 torbs 
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Jul 12, 2016 23:31
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Not balancing for pros is silly. If the game got more unbalanced as you got better, it'd really take out a lot of the incentive TO get better.
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Jul 12, 2016 23:33
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objects in mirror posted:Dear god. So what? hero limit is only in competitive mode. quick play still allows you to make whatever weird fun comps you want
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Jul 12, 2016 23:33
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Zoness posted:when the goal is to make an esport it makes sense to make the game balanced around being an esport Esports are a complete joke and making games less fun in the service of Esports is a ghastly thing to do.
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Jul 12, 2016 23:36
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It'd be cool if they did something based on how many bullets Dva's matrix eats a la Zarya. Like give her a boosted fire rate for X fractions of a second stored as an RMB skill.
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Jul 12, 2016 23:37
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objects in mirror posted:Esports are a complete joke and making games less fun in the service of Esports is a ghastly thing to do. If Blizzard ever does that to this game make sure to let them know.
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Jul 12, 2016 23:37
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DolphinCop posted:hero limit is only in competitive mode. quick play still allows you to make whatever weird fun comps you want Like I said though, there's now a non-zero concern that if they start making balance changes based around the idea of single-hero limit competitive play that quick play now stands the risk of becoming shittier over time. Take these D.Va changes, it's too early to say for certain yet but what happens if these changes result in a single D.Va per team being balanced and good but multiple D.Vas are even worse than before, so now quick play starts filling up with people D.Va spamming constantly.
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Jul 12, 2016 23:38
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Mystery Machine posted:Not balancing for pros is silly. If the game got more unbalanced as you got better, it'd really take out a lot of the incentive TO get better. ^ yes. Essentially if the game is balanced at a level where everyone is playing it as close to the limit of optimal play as humanly possible, then when the skill differences are bigger they will matter more and it will be more fun to improve in it. Also, anyone who has ever played a competetive game at a level where people aren't 100% pigheaded about that games equivalent of offensive torb will know that the pro scene strats, meta and gimmicks will trickle down to the general public eventually. Kehveli fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Jul 12, 2016 |
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Jul 12, 2016 23:38
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Zoness posted:when the goal is to make an esport it makes sense to make the game balanced around being an esport There's no such thing as "balanced around being an esport." There's just balanced, or not. A competitive, PvP game is designed so that the more skillful player wins. A balance problem exists when improving at the game herds you into a narrower or more homogenous way of playing. Esports has nothing to do with it, except that a game with an active professional / competitive community is more likely to uncover balance issues because people push the envelope further.
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Jul 12, 2016 23:42
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Does Reaper gain ult appreciably faster with his self-heal on ptr
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Jul 12, 2016 23:42
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Holy poo poo, the D'Va changes feel fantastic. I love playing her now.
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Jul 12, 2016 23:44
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Nehru the Damaja posted:Does Reaper gain ult appreciably faster with his self-heal on ptr No idea, but that's a good question. Does it even count as self-heal, since it's essentially just a health pack?
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Jul 12, 2016 23:44
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I think limit 1 hero is going overboard and is going to make solo queuing even more cantankerous than it already is. Limit 2 would be wayyy more reasonable.
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Jul 12, 2016 23:46
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:There's no such thing as "balanced around being an esport." There's just balanced, or not. I agree and disagree with this - but mostly in that balancing around a game being an esport also means there needs to be a dynamism in how the game is viewed by a spectator. Hero balance is theoretically not an important part of competitive play existing for a game (look at most fighting games) but is a big deal for spectator/casual player interest
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Jul 12, 2016 23:47
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:There's no such thing as "balanced around being an esport." There's just balanced, or not. Well, yes and no. It's been a complaint by commentators that no hero limit is a nightmare to commentate for instance. Additionally spectators don't like certain things - namely Stopwatch and some things related to stacking. There are definitely reasons to balance the game in a way friendly to esports rather than not, many of them financial. We might have seen very different changes if they weren't aiming for a spectator-friendly game.
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Jul 12, 2016 23:47
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Supercar Gautier posted:I think limit 1 hero is going overboard and is going to make solo queuing even more cantankerous than it already is. Limit 2 would be wayyy more reasonable. I'm totally find with competitive having hero limits, especially when quick play doesn't. That being said, multiple X isn't really an issue I've run into all that much in competitive. What I have run into is Zarya + other tank (typically roadhog or Reinhardt) or double healers and both of those comps are way more annoying than multiple X hero (thought not something I would ask to be changed, there's no way you can really "fix" that)
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Jul 12, 2016 23:51
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I see where you guys are coming from, I just wouldn't have thought to call spectator-friendliness a balance issue. It's more like an external corrosive effect. 
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Jul 12, 2016 23:52
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Ddraig posted:No idea, but that's a good question. Does it even count as self-heal, since it's essentially just a health pack? It counts in his medal total so I'd imagine it counts toward ult.
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Jul 12, 2016 23:58
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I see where you guys are coming from, I just wouldn't have thought to call spectator-friendliness a balance issue. It's more like an external corrosive effect. Yeah it's less "balanced for spectators" and more "designed for spectators, and then balanced [theoretically]". If they didn't care about spectators we might have seen more drastic changes to core mechanics or maps but kept hero stacking, for instance. Maybe. It's basically another timeline at this point.
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Jul 12, 2016 23:58
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tf2 comp play doesn't have class stacking but the purpose there is to keep the game interesting; if they didn't have class limitations then every game would be something like 5 soldiers/demos + maybe a medic i know the knee jerk reaction to comp rules is "UGH WHY DO PEOPLE HATE FUN" but a lot of them are to encourage variety when without them comp play would be the same thing over and over
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Jul 12, 2016 23:59
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oh whoops reaper yeah I imagine it contributes toward his ult but not appreciably so because of how much damage he usually has to do to get healing Zoness fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Jul 13, 2016 |
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Jul 12, 2016 23:59
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Adding hero limits is basically an admission of balance failure, and they were fighting it for a really long time but the pro community got loud about it and started putting in soft hero caps themselves, so Blizzard capitulated.
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Jul 13, 2016 00:01
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More than 1 of a hero ruins my immersion of these being actual characters on a special ops team. Thanks Blizzard.
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Jul 13, 2016 00:02
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Brosnan posted:Adding hero limits is basically an admission of balance failure, and they were fighting it for a really long time but the pro community got loud about it and started putting in soft hero caps themselves, so Blizzard capitulated. balancing the game to the degree that there wouldn't be a comp involving character stacking would be basically impossible, there's too many variables
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Jul 13, 2016 00:02
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President Ark posted:tf2 comp play doesn't have class stacking but the purpose there is to keep the game interesting; if they didn't have class limitations then every game would be something like 5 soldiers/demos + maybe a medic That sorta depends on what you consider variety. KotH was sort of a lost cause, but in payload we see less variety now in 1 hero limit tournaments than we did in no limits. Teams basically run the same core set of Rein/Lucio/Mercy/Pharah + filler, and even that filler is generally "a hitscan and another tank". Even when the classes do get mixed up a bit the actual comp structure is very similar. Stacking enabled some really wacky things like 4 tank comps and some other stuff. Whether that's good or bad is personal preference, of course, but "well now I see 6 heroes instead of 4" is sorta oversimplifying what goes into team composition.
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Jul 13, 2016 00:02
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Mei's ice block wasn't factored in to the changes to ult charges, so her block also super boosts her ult charge now on the PTR... Can't be going live but that's kinda super funny.
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Jul 13, 2016 00:03
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Bust Rodd posted:Mei's ice block wasn't factored in to the changes to ult charges, so her block also super boosts her ult charge now on the PTR... mei and her ult are loving terrible so why not
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Jul 13, 2016 00:06
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I wonder if there's an Ana combo where you sleep, throw your biotic thing in such a way that you have enough time to land a shot and a melee hit to deal 200+ damage. If that could be a consistent thing that'd be rad.
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Jul 13, 2016 00:10
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Ana is like the cool biker grammas from Fury Road. She is cool.
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Jul 13, 2016 00:12
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Minrad posted:mei and her ult are loving terrible so why not yeah stealth mei buffs are better than no mei buffs
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Jul 13, 2016 00:13
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did they fix the stupid hanzo dog costume?
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Jul 13, 2016 00:15
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Also I'm that guy...the one who has been shooting at Mei's ice wall this entire time.
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Jul 13, 2016 00:23
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So I played through the patch what changed
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Jul 13, 2016 00:26
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objects in mirror posted:Also I'm that guy...the one who has been shooting at Mei's ice wall this entire time. Can Symmetra still charge her beam on them?
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Jul 13, 2016 00:31
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verbal enema posted:So I played through the patch what changed Many things
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Jul 13, 2016 00:32
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Bust Rodd posted:Mei's ice block wasn't factored in to the changes to ult charges, so her block also super boosts her ult charge now on the PTR...
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Jul 13, 2016 00:34
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So I hear that D.Va got a buff in the PTS. Just wondering, what did they do to her, as she and junkrat are my main character choices, and I love using D.Va as a backfield harrasser.
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