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Actually a 5-man Bolt link with Squalo Lt. is a completely legit list, albeit with specific strengths that you really must leverage to get your points worth (Lt. order safety via Veteran, Drop Bear midfield control). If I wasn't already committed to Fusiliers due to also playing MO then I'd be super interested in Bolts.
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Jul 12, 2016 21:59
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Corbeau posted:Actually a 5-man Bolt link with Squalo Lt. is a completely legit list, albeit with specific strengths that you really must leverage to get your points worth (Lt. order safety via Veteran, Drop Bear midfield control). If I wasn't already committed to Fusiliers due to also playing MO then I'd be super interested in Bolts. I was not expecting that, hopefully this will go pretty well. The last ITS I played in was a 200 point all super-tough objectives one where everyone brought incredibly killy lists then proceeded to put their opponents in retreat in their first turn and get 0 points in the first round... Watching the guy who thought he'd be clever and bring a Dragao and a few Regulars have to complete objectives was quite amusing.
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Jul 12, 2016 22:19
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It's not going to be as forgiving as a more "standard" ~14 order list with camo infiltrators (read: Ariadna, Haqq, Nomads). But boy howdy is it going to kill the poo poo out of stuff with the orders you've got, assuming you set it up just right. e: Any list with more expensive troopers and fewer orders is going to rely on reactive turn strength, which is intrinsically more difficulty to make work due to the game's design. On the other hand the game is designed to favor offense precisely because of how defensive strength can totally cripple the opponent's options, so if you can make it work... Corbeau fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Jul 12, 2016 |
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Jul 12, 2016 22:51
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How the gently caress do I defend against link teams? Playing Haqq, Azra'ils and everything else just doesn't loving last when I have to constantly face 5 dice of whatever. Playing 400pt Annihilation both games came down to Maggie and an engie hiding behind it, and something else prone on a roof. They were at least super scared of her, but I ended up having no orders to actually do anything. Do I just have to be hyper aggressive in hunting them down? Everyone is using them like mad and I barely can fill out either sectorial to 300pts since 90% of my stuff ended up being vanilla.
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Jul 13, 2016 01:38
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PirateDentist posted:How the gently caress do I defend against link teams? Playing Haqq, Azra'ils and everything else just doesn't loving last when I have to constantly face 5 dice of whatever. Playing 400pt Annihilation both games came down to Maggie and an engie hiding behind it, and something else prone on a roof. They were at least super scared of her, but I ended up having no orders to actually do anything. Shoot them with templates. Use a dumb guy with a flamethrower or chain rifle because the template vs shot ARO fork is even worse for link teams. Also the non-leader link guys are fairly vulnerable to AROs since they can't shoot back and the leader has to dodge for them to dodge. Panzeh fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Jul 13, 2016 |
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Jul 13, 2016 01:42
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I'm a newbie, but I thought the Squalo was the coolest thing ever and spent quite some time painting him up, only to get poo poo on repeatedly. After those losses, I don't really see what he can do that an Aquila Guard with and HMG can't (that is worth *that* many points). TAGs also seemed like newbie poison to me. If you make a positioning mistake with some 30pt model and lose it, not the end of the world. I would always lose the tag to something I was completely unprepared for and instantly lose. The skill floor and ceiling are so wide apart in Infinity. I would see other newbies with Ariadna lists with 20+ models. They would lose just like me, but they didn't seem to get completely loving annihilated because no matter how bad they messed up there was 19 other fill in bodies available.
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Jul 13, 2016 01:46
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Tags will occasionally be really good but a lot of the time they will not get much done. The basic tag template CB seems to use is kinda just a jumped up heavy infantry with a couple points of armor and a wound for a lot more points- the usable ones tend toward the extremes, the dirt cheap tags or the expensive ones because they offer interesting capabilities. Most of the advantages tags offer have more to do with mobility than firepower or survivability typically being 6-4 move models.
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Jul 13, 2016 01:49
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Mobility and armor. Put that Squalo behind cover, kill off your opponent's AP options, and watch him burn 20 orders trying to kill your TAG. There's a very good thread on the Infinity forums about playing with TAGs, but I'm headed out the door for Infinity night.
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Jul 13, 2016 02:35
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PirateDentist posted:How the gently caress do I defend against link teams? Playing Haqq, Azra'ils and everything else just doesn't loving last when I have to constantly face 5 dice of whatever. Playing 400pt Annihilation both games came down to Maggie and an engie hiding behind it, and something else prone on a roof. They were at least super scared of her, but I ended up having no orders to actually do anything. Muttuiah. Stay out of Line of Sight, get within 8", and jam. Isolated models can't be in links.
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Jul 13, 2016 02:36
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I don't run TAGs very often, but have played against them a fair bit. What makes them annoying, if you aren't prepared for them, is that they have absurd armor and generally really high stats. Get them into cover and the Squalo becomes effective ARM of 11, which is pretty hard to scratch with anything not AP. But of course there will probably be a sniper or missile launcher somewhere in a good ARO spot, which is why you need infiltrators and AD (or anything else that can trade with them at range) to try and take out those threats before you start going full Rambo with the TAG. Take advantage of the heavier B in the active turn and make sure the opponent doesn't get multiple shots at you with those weapons in the reactive turn. Don't underestimate good engineer coverage either, it's hard to put these things down once, and having good enough cover to continually repair one up can be brutal. Also a HGL can be pretty brutal now that shadow zones aren't a thing. There's good enough range on it that a few speculative shot have a decent chance of hitting on a 9. Most of the midrange TAGs shouldn't necessarily gimp your list building, so don't think that you need to just pile on the cheerleaders and rely solely on them. Relying solely on anything is a really bad idea in Infinity, since for the most part anything can kill anything with a bit of bad luck and poor rolling. Really the biggest thing for me in N3 that I have to keep a look out for is how effective CC can be in locking down/taking out a TAG.
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Jul 13, 2016 02:47
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I have this list almost painted and ready to go (and it has been for like half a year) but I haven't run it yet because I've been busy. Looking forward to actually trying it though. Military Orders──────────────────────────────────────────────────  10  SERAPH Spitfire, Nanopulser + AUXBOT_1 / EXP CCW. (2 | 82) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) FATHER-KNIGHT Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 50) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) SPEC. SERGEANT (Multispectral Visor L2) Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 24) SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33) FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
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Jul 13, 2016 03:06
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Starting with that much TO can gimp your starting order pool a bit, especially if you get first turn and get docked a further two.
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Jul 13, 2016 03:12
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I didn't think there was anything forcing you to start them hidden, but that you could just use it as a super camouflage.
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Jul 13, 2016 03:14
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I love the models for Nomad Geckos. How much of a newbie trap are they?
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Jul 13, 2016 03:17
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BattleMaster posted:I didn't think there was anything forcing you to start them hidden, but that you could just use it as a super camouflage. Yeah definitely true. HD is one of the greatest strength of TO though. I guess unless the enemies packing a bunch of MSV they'd be pretty safe in standard deployment.
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Jul 13, 2016 03:19
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Hortism posted:Yeah definitely true. HD is one of the greatest strength of TO though. I guess unless the enemies packing a bunch of MSV they'd be pretty safe in standard deployment. Okay good; I'll need to try to get a feel for when I should and shouldn't use it since as you said I can't spare that many lost orders as it is.
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Jul 13, 2016 03:30
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PirateDentist posted:How the gently caress do I defend against link teams? Playing Haqq... I also really like Tuaregs with Boarding Shotguns used in ARO from Hidden Deployment. Here's how it works: look where your opponent has deployed his or her Link Team (you can do this if you deploy second or if you are forced to deploy first but hold your Tuareg in reserve). Look at what their objectives are and where they are likely to go to accomplish them, and use your Hidden Deployment to put yourself in a position to cover that lane. Then wait, chortling softly and rubbing your hands together like a freak. When the enemy Link Team moves up to/near/past where your Tuareg is hiding, use your Boarding Shotgun to ARO the crap out of a bunch of them with your impact template. Now they are faced with a dire choice - dodge and effectively waste an order (and maybe still get hit anyway), or do whatever it was that they were going to do and suck down Damage 14 ARM rolls with no cover. This tactic is especially useful if the Link Leader exposed himself to one of your other troops as the first part of his order (i.e. as a prelude to opening up on your dude with the inevitable HMG), as you now have multiple AROs coming at him. If he elects to Dodge, you're nearly doubling the chances of beating him in FtF, and if he doesn't, he too is sucking down a Damage 14 ARM roll with no cover. Chances are good the link will break or be greatly reduced in efficacy. Your Tuareg will likely die in the following activation, but god drat it's funny to watch people scramble when this happens, especially if the player relies very heavily on their Link Team.
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Jul 13, 2016 03:35
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KPC_Mammon posted:I love the models for Nomad Geckos. How much of a newbie trap are they? Not a trap at all. They are costed at a good sweet spot that lets you have the intimidation and durability of a TAG without paying through the nose, so you can bring two or field plenty of other dangerous stuff like Intruders and Zeros. Just don't expect them to level all opposition like an Avatar would. Think of them like boosted Heavy Infantry that you can repair with an engineer. And with Duo, you can achieve a great order efficiency/threat presence by bringing two.
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Jul 13, 2016 04:57
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Got a tourney later this month where they're allowing us to run spec ops with 15xp. Probably going to run Military Order's since I'm too lazy to paint anything new and haven't used them in a while. Was thinking of using this as a kinda 'all or nothing' counter hacker build who could potentially get shoved right up the grill of something nasty like a TAG to cause problems, or fail and get stuck in the back running support programs on the 5 knight link I'm running/REMs/AD units.  INDIGO Spec-Ops (15 XP) (PH:11, WIP:15, Inferior Infiltration, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)It's kinda boring though, and I feel like 15xp could probably build something a bit more fun. Anyone have any cool build ideas? I can shift armies to one with better base stats on my Spec Op if that helps. As long as it isn't Nomads, Aleph or Ariadna I should be able to field an effective force.
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Jul 13, 2016 07:13
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PirateDentist posted:How the gently caress do I defend against link teams? Playing Haqq, Azra'ils and everything else just doesn't loving last when I have to constantly face 5 dice of whatever. Playing 400pt Annihilation both games came down to Maggie and an engie hiding behind it, and something else prone on a roof. They were at least super scared of her, but I ended up having no orders to actually do anything. Lot of it can be up to the terrain, but here are some of my ways 1) Make sure your terrain has Saturation zones! 2) Bring template weapons, 3)Try and get the link team to trigger multiple AROs. If your opponent is able to snipe with just the link team leader then try and prevent that. 4) Shoot the non link team leader! 5) Hacking! Also ask your opponents if you can proxy? Sounds like you are using the real models.
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Jul 13, 2016 15:33
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Panzeh posted:Shoot them with templates. Use a dumb guy with a flamethrower or chain rifle because the template vs shot ARO fork is even worse for link teams. Also the non-leader link guys are fairly vulnerable to AROs since they can't shoot back and the leader has to dodge for them to dodge. WAR FOOT posted:Muttuiah. Stay out of Line of Sight, get within 8", and jam. Isolated models can't be in links. Ilor posted:Two words: Ghazi. Muttawi'ah. They are super-cheap war-band troops and the best link-breakers in the game bar none. And they are AVA 4 in a vanilla list. Use Mutts, got it. I'll check out the Tuaregs also. Exmond posted:Also ask your opponents if you can proxy? Sounds like you are using the real models. I am using the actual models, and I probably could proxy. Local group is pretty chill, I'd just have to proxy a fuckton to use sectorials well. I had the dumb luck of buying mostly vanilla stuff while learning all this. Naffatun and Muttawi'ah are going to be getting a lot of playtime soon.
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Jul 14, 2016 05:03
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Is there a resource that compiles previous releases by date? Seeing photos of the previous Nomad starter next to the current resculpts is pretty jarring and I was wondering how the model lines have evolved over the years.
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Jul 14, 2016 05:05
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KPC_Mammon posted:Is there a resource that compiles previous releases by date? Seeing photos of the previous Nomad starter next to the current resculpts is pretty jarring and I was wondering how the model lines have evolved over the years. You can just sort the official store by release date.
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Jul 14, 2016 06:00
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PirateDentist posted:Use Mutts, got it. I'll check out the Tuaregs also. Vanilla Haqq good
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Jul 14, 2016 10:23
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admanb posted:You can just sort the official store by release date. This wasn't quite working for me, at least a few of the releases were definitely out of order. Luckily after much searching I found a spreadsheet, which I'm pretty sure is maintained by Pierzak. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sw32V6iaGqXJutpa4tvAFL6gy5oqQnTGoXzWDxgUdsU/edit?usp=sharing
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Jul 15, 2016 01:16
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KPC_Mammon posted:This wasn't quite working for me, at least a few of the releases were definitely out of order. Yup, that's mine. Here's the general folder link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B957zKbO1rsvUkpxU0ZmeG1LTUU&usp=sharing
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Jul 15, 2016 04:03
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Painted up the world's coolest questionably effective link team over the past couple weeks, here's a bad phone picture. Now if only I could get the Samaritan to stand up on his own (there are already lead fishing weights in the base, I think I'm going to have to add some scenery to get more weight in there), I could take the world's worst silhouette marker and friends out for a spin.
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Jul 16, 2016 07:17
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drat, that red really pops! In the new Red Duel starter set, what kind of unit is the Al Fasid? Just HI?
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Jul 16, 2016 07:28
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Yeah, HI. Quite expensive (for haqq) but versatile hi. 53 pts 2 swc for hmg, lgl (smoke and normal grens), ap mines w minelayer, sixth sense lvl 1, veteran. 4-2 mover, otherwise decent hi stats.
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Jul 16, 2016 14:11
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stabbington posted:Painted up the world's coolest questionably effective link team over the past couple weeks, here's a bad phone picture. Those models are really poppin! Write us up a trip report when you finally get them on the table. My most recent game was with Supplies with my vanilla Ariadna against Military Orders featuring Joan and the Pain Train (De Fersen, Hospitaller Knights), and some TO camo and scrub cheer leaders. I really like Supplies because it has the potential to play out a lot of different ways. Of course, it ended with some Knights living in the centre and me trying to kill them but that's basically every game against MO. Some highlights involve my Ariadna Scout criting De Fersen. A Veteran Kazak punching Joan in the face (before being chopped apart), a Kazak Spetnas walking on from the side and shooting a ton of cheerleaders in the back. And then.... a mad dash for the objectives where I burned all my orders trying to roll a loving 13 and was left totally exposed for last turn. I know Ariadna has slightly better WIP than Pan O but good God do I ever suck at making specialist rolls for objectives. I want to play some more ITS missions because we've mostly been sticking with 20x20 in our group - but some seem a little excessive. What missions do you guys recommend as a good balance of action and objective work?
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Jul 16, 2016 17:20
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Sanguine posted:Yeah, HI. Quite expensive (for haqq) but versatile hi. Feels like it falls into the borderline-TAG kind of HI...
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Jul 17, 2016 11:31
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Slicing the pie, yes or no? I'm new to the game and want to know which way I should learn it. I'm leaning towards pro-slicing, since it is a real world tactic and seems to favor quality units over quantity (which are already favored by the order system).
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Jul 17, 2016 17:47
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Infinity is what GW games should be. The rules are cinematic but clear when played using cooperative communicated intent and charitable interpretation of table state, but break down immediately if you try and execute them with the 1mm gotcha mentality that people played games like 2nd ed Warmachine with. So declare intent and slice the pie in a cooperative manner, because the game is god awful if it becomes about trying to use surgical precision when placing your miniatures lest they get got. It even says point blank in the rulebook that BOTH players are responsible for making sure BOTH players are aware of AROs, and while distances are not open information, LOS is.
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Jul 17, 2016 18:17
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I've just always gone with "don't be a oval office". Bit brutal but to the point. I'm a simple man.
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Jul 17, 2016 19:16
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A horrendously unsuccessful tournament today as I comfortably bottomed out the table. My first game was spectacular, a 9-1 win on Highly Classified as every roll went my way, but then everything unravelled. The second game had a horribly laid out table for one player - I failed to realise exactly how bad until after deployment when I realised my opponent had two sniper towers in his deployment zone overlooking all of the objectives and 3/4 of my deployment zone. Even accounting for the fact it's a good idea to provide an incentive to pick deployment over initiative, that was a truly horrendous setup. As a result I lost 7-3 incredibly quickly to a pair of MSV snipers in high places. The third game ended up a massacre as every single dice roll that could go wrong did. Every roll felt like my opponent outrolled me by 1, or I failed a save by 1. As a result I was in Loss of Lieutenant end of Turn 1, and Retreat end of Turn 2 with no objectives to my name and a single model left on the board at the start of my Turn 3. A 10-0 defeat.
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Jul 17, 2016 21:07
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KPC_Mammon posted:since it is a real world tactic It seems to me you'd either have to rely on extremely slight movement that would get you shot in the face by the second enemy with the slightest mistake, or you'd have to step back, which works better for positioning but would deny you cover in Infinity. And it's commonly cited as an example of what should be allowed/disallowed as pie-slicing. Seriously asking, how's this stuff done in actual military?
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Jul 17, 2016 21:55
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Bob Smith posted:A horrendously unsuccessful tournament today as I comfortably bottomed out the table. My first game was spectacular, a 9-1 win on Highly Classified as every roll went my way, but then everything unravelled. I wouldn't say winning 1 of 3 games is that bad mate, poo poo happens. What army were you playing and which ones did you play against?
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Jul 17, 2016 22:13
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Genghis Cohen posted:I wouldn't say winning 1 of 3 games is that bad mate, poo poo happens. What army were you playing and which ones did you play against? I was running Neoterra, and my opponents ran vanilla Ariadna (the game I won), Imperial Service (the one scuppered by terrain) and an almost exact mirror of my own list for the final. This was my list, limited mostly by the size of my collection (I haven't had a chance to buy the Fusilier SWC pack yet). The missions were Highly Classified in round 1, something involving capturing three antennae (one in each deployment zone and one in the middle) in round 2 and something with 9 antennae in a grid for round 3.  Neoterran Capitaline Army────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10  AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) BOLT Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 27) BOLT Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 24) BOLT Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27) BOLT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) BOLT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) SQUALO (Armored Cav.) Lieutenant MULTI HMG / AP Heavy Pistol. (2 | 93)GROUP 2 1  GARUDA Tacbot Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 22)5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
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Jul 17, 2016 22:21
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Infinity has some really inventive mechanics but the amount of hidden info in the game is the one thing that turns me off of it.
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Jul 17, 2016 22:48
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I feel like, as long as your opponent knows what could be coming their way, it's all fair game. Maybe don't break out TO camo Oniwaban in hidden deployment with superior infiltration against someone playing their first game. But other wise going "yup, that doesn't add up to 300 points this is going to suck" and trying to anticipate the sucker punch is just part of the fun. Hidden information is really not that bad at all. It's not like you're going to know what a lot of your opponents units are anyway unless (until?) you get an encyclopedic knowledge of the miniature range and rules. Just my two cents.
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Jul 17, 2016 22:53
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