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Chuck Boone posted:I'd say that this is definitely not a good thing for a number of reasons: so he basically declared himself super ruler and has the army to back him up now. fun times ahead.
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Jul 13, 2016 02:27
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This is basically another giant bribe to the Armed Forces, and probably a backup plan in case Maduro is kicked out due to the Referendum. Probably the only hope Venezuela had was the military turning on Maduro and being noble enough to call for a democratic process after he was out. After this, it's a lot less likely. Every piece of news from Venezuela depresses me to no end. Just sent 100€ to my mom, and between the black market exchange and the commission she got enough to buy food for a month for her two dogs, and about a week's worth for herself. My mother-in-law received the same amount of money and managed to pay some of her debts and buy some groceries, once.
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Jul 13, 2016 09:55
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I worked with some South Americans from Ecuador, Venezuela (and also Colombia) during my PhD. The Ecuadorians and Venezuelans told me about the clown version of economics they teach there (in most but not all courses). Personal highlights were socialist economics courses and Marxian economics, but also the "normal" courses were pretty funnily distorted if I remember right. Then of course the stories about the corruption and cronyism in the administration and economic regulation agencies. Wow were those guys bitter, which is kind of sad for such an otherwise cheerful bunch. Stories about their times in the administration/regulation work usually resulted in the evening becoming one of those "sad drinking nights". On the other hand my Colombian buddy had responded by becoming demonstratively libertarian. We really should not be surprised at all is what I am saying. Haramstufe Rot fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Jul 13, 2016 |
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Jul 13, 2016 10:20
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Clown version of most subjects imo. One of the locals working with our team in Pto. Ayacucho asked our Colombian PhD student with a straight face (but seemingly no malice) "por que los Colombianos no quieren ser nuestros hermanos?" Turns out there is a version of "the Jews killed Jesus" being taught in Venezuelan schooling, subbing out Jews with Colombians and Jesus with Simón Bolivar.
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Jul 13, 2016 10:33
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Ok we've been joking about North Korea comparisons, but decreeing the military to be the most important thing in government and in charge of things under the ruler is literally what Kim Jong-Il did in the 90s in response to their economic collapse and famine.
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Jul 13, 2016 14:14
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fishmech posted:Ok we've been joking about North Korea comparisons, but decreeing the military to be the most important thing in government and in charge of things under the ruler is literally what Kim Jong-Il did in the 90s in response to their economic collapse and famine. Would it be fair to make a distinction of kind between Venezuela-bad, and Syria- or DPRK-bad? Venezuela seems like the unraveling of a relatively-coherent civil society, plagued by criminality. Syria is intractable multi-factional civil war. Norklandia is just what-the-gently caress singular Moonie-level bad. In Venezuela, the body count, relatively low, is from crime and lack of medicine. In Syria, which has probably the highest mortality rate today, it is from armed conflict, starvation, and lack of medicine. In DPRK, it is from an omnipresent government (and lack of medicine). I don't mean to be making an argument for Borneo Jimmy or other tankies, but from my outside vantage point Venezuela just seems Really Bad. It's a place I'd still consider (still am considering, actually) visiting for work.
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Jul 13, 2016 14:19
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TheImmigrant posted:Would it be fair to make a distinction of kind between Venezuela-bad, and Syria- or DPRK-bad? Venezuela seems like the unraveling of a relatively-coherent civil society, plagued by criminality. Syria is intractable multi-factional civil war. Norklandia is just what-the-gently caress singular Moonie-level bad. In Venezuela, the body count, relatively low, is from crime and lack of medicine. In Syria, which has probably the highest mortality rate today, it is from armed conflict, starvation, and lack of medicine. In DPRK, it is from an omnipresent government (and lack of medicine). No, I think it's very bad. That's also because while the country seems to be sliding downwards steadily, no one - not government nor the ideological supporters - has voiced any critique about what has been done and sees any reason to stand back, say, "well, maybe we were wrong. Maybe our clown economic policies and ideologies are stupid, just like everyone told us, and perhaps things can not be solved by more of the same".
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Jul 13, 2016 16:24
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Boner Slaem posted:"well, maybe we were wrong. Maybe our clown economic policies and ideologies are stupid, just like everyone told us, and perhaps things can not be solved by more of the same". "... No. It is the
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Jul 13, 2016 16:46
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TheImmigrant posted:I don't mean to be making an argument for Borneo Jimmy or other tankies, but from my outside vantage point Venezuela just seems Really Bad. It's a place I'd still consider (still am considering, actually) visiting for work. What makes you think it is in any way a good idea to go work in Venezuela right now when anyone in their right mind and the ability to do so is bugging out? People are getting shot waiting in line and the rest just shuffle on because it is more important to keep your place in line.
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Jul 13, 2016 16:54
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TheImmigrant posted:Would it be fair to make a distinction of kind between Venezuela-bad, and Syria- or DPRK-bad? Venezuela seems like the unraveling of a relatively-coherent civil society, plagued by criminality. Syria is intractable multi-factional civil war. Norklandia is just what-the-gently caress singular Moonie-level bad. In Venezuela, the body count, relatively low, is from crime and lack of medicine. In Syria, which has probably the highest mortality rate today, it is from armed conflict, starvation, and lack of medicine. In DPRK, it is from an omnipresent government (and lack of medicine). I think it's important to have nuanced views, and certainly there are differences between those three countries. That said, Venezuela is spiraling harder and faster and every indication points to it getting much worse before it gets better... if it even does. Also, even putting issues of safety aside, what makes you think you would be paid for any work you did in Venezuela?
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Jul 13, 2016 17:06
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He'd be traveling for work he already does, not working in Venezuela for a Venezuelan company. Like say he's a travel agent writing Lonely Planet's 2017 edition (I mean he's not and no one is writing those, but you get the idea). Still sounds like a terrible idea unless you're connected to someone important who can keep the border copa from robbing you on entry to the country.
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Jul 13, 2016 17:20
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To be fair, if he's coming to Caracas for work he'll probably be alright. You can still find mostly everything here if you've got enough money and as long as he sticks to hotels, restaurants, malls, and the likes, he'll have a nice time. If his work were to take him to the countryside, then that's an entirely different matter.
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Jul 13, 2016 17:34
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I know a Venezuelan who refuses to go back even to see his own family. That is how bad it is. If you can handle being extorted for money they by all means go their for work; though there is nothing more dangerous than a people who are desperate for food. You almost have to put the whole thing in perspective; nothing is as bad as Syria is right now. Though the whole situation is very fluid as the economy is in a death spiral and the situation will change from week to month to year. This puts the people in a situation where they constantly have to adapt to what is currently going on. You also have a regime who is doing everything it can to stay in power. Everyone is in survival mode at this point including the leadership. I would really reconsider your work travel plans(unless you happen to be a wealthy drug dealer).
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Jul 13, 2016 17:42
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NLJP posted:What makes you think it is in any way a good idea to go work in Venezuela right now when anyone in their right mind and the ability to do so is bugging out? People are getting shot waiting in line and the rest just shuffle on because it is more important to keep your place in line. I'm the only person willing to consider doing the trip, which would be a paid-for Wednesday evening to Sunday evening thing. I'd be staying in (maybe not even leaving) a business-class hotel, meeting a few people. Really only worried about getting through and from the airport to the hotel, and then back to the airport. I did a similar trip to San Pedro Sula (Caracas's old homicide rival) a couple of years ago, and survived. As for leaving the hotel, I'd assess things once on the ground, and take it from there. A lot of places I've been, I just take the attitude that I don't go out with anything I can't afford to lose. If I went out to check things out in Caracas, it would be with cash bolívares and nothing else, maybe a burner phone to have something to hand over in case of a mugging. TheImmigrant fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Jul 13, 2016 |
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Jul 13, 2016 18:00
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It's not about surviving or not, I haven't been killed yet for instance and I've lived here my whole life, but about risk, it's simply not worth it risking coming here imho.
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Jul 13, 2016 18:10
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I think the biggest danger would be me getting drunk in the hotel and then wanting to go explore and meet people.
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Jul 13, 2016 18:40
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The biggest danger would be you stepping off the plane.
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Jul 13, 2016 18:48
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Maybe you could wear a Chavez T-Shirt? I think you have one.
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Jul 13, 2016 19:07
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TheImmigrant posted:I'm the only person willing to consider doing the trip, which would be a paid-for Wednesday evening to Sunday evening thing. I'd be staying in (maybe not even leaving) a business-class hotel, meeting a few people. Really only worried about getting through and from the airport to the hotel, and then back to the airport. I did a similar trip to San Pedro Sula (Caracas's old homicide rival) a couple of years ago, and survived. Are you selling Juche management consultant training?
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Jul 13, 2016 20:45
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gobbagool posted:Are you selling Juche management consultant training? Heh. I'm a lawyer from the US, definitely on the side of capital and emigration on this one.
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Jul 13, 2016 20:57
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Just a reminder, few months back someone got mugged and murdered right after getting of the plane. Not as they were leaving the airport, but literally when they were walking into the terminal.
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Jul 13, 2016 23:08
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I dont know posted:Just a reminder, few months back someone got mugged and murdered right after getting of the plane. Not as they were leaving the airport, but literally when they were walking into the terminal. poo poo, this wouldn't even happen in a Mad Max film http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2016/03/20/egyptian-murdered-during-robbery-attempt-in-venezuela/
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Jul 13, 2016 23:12
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TheImmigrant posted:I think the biggest danger would be me getting drunk in the hotel and then wanting to go explore and meet people. I mean if you do this, you're in very real danger. That said if you only go hotel-meeting-hotel with a private driver? Yeah you'll probably be fine. But seriously stay off the streets unless you have a local guide that comes heavily recommended, and you don't do stupid poo poo like insist on going out at night. It's a bit dependent on how much you look like an American or if you can pass as white Latino, but not that much. Sure it might not be the most dangerous place you can travel to right now., but it's definitely part of the top 5. That's not a moderate risk. edit: I'm Venezuelan, went just last year, and yet my mom basically forbid me to go there this year because she would be extremely scared for me. But hey if you go, bring along simple medicines to give away if you meet someone you like, acetaminophen is better than roses! Hugoon Chavez fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Jul 13, 2016 |
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Jul 13, 2016 23:24
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The thing about being in a place like Venezuela is that everyone says "be careful", but if you've only ever lived in a developed country what it means to "be careful" isn't necessarily obvious. My go-to story for this is one of the times that my dad went back to Venezuela. This must have been about 8-10 years ago. Anyway, when my dad came back to Canada, he told us a story about how he had this huge moment of panic because he had gone out alone to a supermarket with his sister's car. He parked the car and got out, but he quickly went back to it because he'd forgotten something in it. He opened the door to the car and leaned in. He was rummaging through the glove box, the little side console, looking under the seats... all while with the door open and his back turned to the outside, completely exposed to anyone who might come along and want to rob him or worse. He'd been in Canada for so long (where he'd sometimes leave his car unlocked or with the windows rolled down with no fear) that he'd forgotten how to be careful. He told us that after leaning into the car like that for a a few seconds, he felt like a switch went off in his head that said "YOU ARE IN VENEZUELA!". He immediately realized what he was doing, slammed the door and quickly walked into the supermarket. So, if you do go to Venezuela, "be careful", but make sure you have a really, really good idea what that means.
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Jul 13, 2016 23:34
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Hugoon Chavez posted:
Not Latino, but dark-haired and swarthy, speak Spanish like a Mexican. Lots of experience in Latin America, lived in Mexico City and Medellin, visited dodgy places like San Salvador and San Pedro Sula for work. I'd definitely take orders from Venegoons for stuff if I came. Work isn't even pushing the issue, but professionally it would be good to go, and I'm curious.
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Jul 14, 2016 00:33
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I have a white as hell friend who went earlier this year. He was fine. He's a 6'4 and blond so he definetly stood out. Outside of work he went straight from hotel to nice bar back to hotel, taking a car the hotel provided the whole time and was with locals though. Only notable story he had to tell was when he wanted to go home with some woman from the bar and the Venezulans he was with straight up wouldn't let him, telling him it was way too dangerous.
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Jul 14, 2016 02:53
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I'm sure every Venezuelan can relate to this woman http://elestimulo.com/blog/no-te-perdono-chavez/ if you know Spanish read it It's unbelievable the damage Chavez did to this country
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Jul 14, 2016 03:25
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themrguy posted:I have a white as hell friend who went earlier this year. He was fine. He's a 6'4 and blond so he definetly stood out. Outside of work he went straight from hotel to nice bar back to hotel, taking a car the hotel provided the whole time and was with locals though. He knew another student who was also visiting from the U.S. and that guy got robbed by cops.
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Jul 14, 2016 03:34
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themrguy posted:I have a white as hell friend who went earlier this year. He was fine. He's a 6'4 and blond so he definetly stood out. Outside of work he went straight from hotel to nice bar back to hotel, taking a car the hotel provided the whole time and was with locals though. One of Venezuela's particular quirks is that it's pretty freaking hard to move out of your family's home even if you're a professional earning a 'decent' income. Out of my circle of close friends, the only ones that don't still live at home are those who left the country, and a couple which moved to the countryside where rent is cheaper (but public services are even less reliable). These people I'm referring to are mostly engineers, so it's not like they have bad jobs. I bring this up because a side effect of this quirk is that if you're young and single, yet still live at home, bringing strangers over for some drunken fun is complicated since your parents are probably asleep in the next room. So it's pretty common even for established couples to just go to cheap motels when they get the chance. In short, if some girl picks you up at a bar in Caracas and wants to bring you home, you're probably going to wind up either waking her granny thanks to a squeaky mattress or just robbed and dropped off in the middle of nowhere. The guy's friends were probably right not to let him go.
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Jul 14, 2016 04:25
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Chuck Boone posted:I think that the way that Maduro introduced this announcement last night is really telling. When he was making the announcement, he set it up by saying, "this crisis needs a unified command, a single command", as if to say, "one person in charge". And that one person in charge turns out to be Maduro... and Padrino? Together? But they're two people, so what was Maduro talking about when he introduced this measure out of a necessity for a single, unified command? I may be reading too much into it, but it sounds like Maduro gave away that there's only one person in charge, but I don't think I know which one it is. It definitely sounds like an arrangement that would create conflicting structures of authority, but logic says to go with the one who has the gun(s). If the PSUV has been running things with the military like a criminal gang (figuratively and literally), then it's not difficult to foresee that someone with ambition and the confidence of his power (like Padrino, if he has military backing behind him) would make a move against someone like Maduro, who basically has nothing but his position, his legacy as Chavez' picked successor (but political sacredness seems to be in short supply, anyway), and an aura of being an incompetent, bumbling schmuck. http://www.voanews.com/content/venezuela-military-seizes-major-ports-as-economic-crisis-deepens/3416195.html Look at the two of them in the image at the link above. As inaccurate as it typically is to judge by appearances, Padrino looks physically authoritative and in control. He looks like a schemer. He looks annoyed. Maduro looks like someone's rich dopey dad, who lucked into fortune and power but has never really had to fight for it. Obviously, Padrino can't just out-and-out take over right now, but it's hard (for me, at least) to avoid seeing Padrino as strong-arming Maduro, and Maduro in turn either ultimately ending up in a prison or executed with minimal decorum once Padrino consolidates his position and feels he can assume control of the country. It may be the uniforms, but he definitely has the look of the hardline South American fascist about him, with all that might imply...
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Jul 14, 2016 07:02
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TheImmigrant posted:Not Latino, but dark-haired and swarthy, speak Spanish like a Mexican. Lots of experience in Latin America, lived in Mexico City and Medellin, visited dodgy places like San Salvador and San Pedro Sula for work. I'd definitely take orders from Venegoons for stuff if I came. Work isn't even pushing the issue, but professionally it would be good to go, and I'm curious. Well it's high intensity tourism I guess! Just be paranoid and mindful and, unless you simply get poo poo luck and a random terrible thing happens, you should be fine. Do -not- go out at night though, it's not worth the risk for some lame entertainment. If you're going to be accompanied by a decent group of locals then driving around the "good" part of Caracas can be alright, and if you leave the city and go to a beach or something you can have a nice time. Since you have experience on dangerous places I doubt you'll be dumb about it. Eat a bunch of Arepas and street burgers then come back and tell us your impressions!
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Jul 14, 2016 08:17
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Keep in mind, there's no way to be absolutely safe in Caracas. Like they say there, cuando te tocó, te tocó. As a tourist, you're a much juicier target than regular Venezuelans, and regular Venezuelans, even the most paranoid ones, get robbed and kidnapped every day.
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Jul 14, 2016 08:21
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Dapper_Swindler posted:so he basically declared himself super ruler and has the army to back him up now. fun times ahead. Kthulhu5000 posted:It definitely sounds like an arrangement that would create conflicting structures of authority, but logic says to go with the one who has the gun(s). If the PSUV has been running things with the military like a criminal gang (figuratively and literally), then it's not difficult to foresee that someone with ambition and the confidence of his power (like Padrino, if he has military backing behind him) would make a move against someone like Maduro, who basically has nothing but his position, his legacy as Chavez' picked successor (but political sacredness seems to be in short supply, anyway), and an aura of being an incompetent, bumbling schmuck. I like that theory that Padrino walked into Maduro's office on Sunday and said "Make me co-President on live TV or I'll make myself President". The other option is that the PSUV pressured Maduro into making the play to ensure chavismo has absolute control of the country until at least 2019, which is when the next presidential term is set to start. With Padrino as the head of the military and for all intents and purposes the head of the Venezuelan state, the PSUV is set up perfectly if either of these things happens:
I remember when Isturiz was named VP that some people said that Maduro had shot himself in the foot, because any faction of the PSUV looking for a relatively moderate, more popular leader would have been in the perfect position to make their move with Isturiz as next-in-line. It looks like by handing over the keys of the country to Padrino, Maduro is sending out the message that "Fine, you can recall me - but you're getting a military dictatorship as a reward if you do". In a bit of good news, my mom's cousin's husband was released from captivity yesterday. He was kidnapped about 55 days ago on his way to work. The kidnappers originally demanded $500,000 for his release, which I think is just a bargaining tactic because who has $500,000? I'm not sure how much my mom's cousin paid, but her husband is home safe.
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Jul 14, 2016 14:39
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I'm looking forward to the perpetrators being brought to justice. Apparently Citibank is pulling out of Venezuela as well: quote:Venezuela's President Nicolas Maduro said on Monday that Citibank NA C.UL, planned to shut his government's foreign currency accounts within a month, denouncing the move by one of its main foreign financial intermediaries as part of a "blockade." I'm not really sure about this site (ZeroHedge) but it had some related analysis: quote:Just over a year ago, cash-strapped Venezuela quietly conducted a little-noticed gold-for-cash swap with Citigroup as part of which Maduro converted part of his nation's gold reserves into at least $1 billion in cash through a swap with Citibank. With a picture of better times: 
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Jul 14, 2016 17:38
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Zerohedge is alright, it mostly just reposts articles from mainstream sites with a "we are so boned" spin.
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Jul 14, 2016 18:04
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Earlier this morning, a truck carrying flour spilled some on the Sucre Avenue in Catia, Caracas. A crowd of people quickly gathered at the site and started scooping up the flour off the street and into bags. Here's a video showing the event: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4k6rab_escasez-ciudadanos-de-catia-recogieron-del-piso-harina-de-trigo-que-se-cayo-de-una-gandola_people
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Jul 14, 2016 18:36
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In December last year right after the PSUV lost the elections, and while they still controlled the National Assembly, they illegally filled the Supreme Court with handpicked judges, mostly the Constitutional court, now 8 months later the National Assembly says that act was null. Why the gently caress didn't they do this in January as soon as they gained control of the NA? they are so loving incompetent and then they get angry when people call them out...
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Jul 15, 2016 01:11
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The Supreme Court is just going to say that declaring that act null has been declared null.
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Jul 15, 2016 01:19
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The Lone Badger posted:The Supreme Court is just going to say that declaring that act null has been declared null. Yeah of course they will but they should've done this poo poo as soon as they took control and they shouldn't have complied with their order of not swearing in the Amazonas deputies either.
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Jul 15, 2016 01:24
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Also right now they are showing on "cadena" some loving movie meaning every single TV channel and radio station(lol) has to air the movie, I cannot believe this poo poo, its like living in the twilight zone.
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Jul 15, 2016 01:29
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