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Panzeh posted:Let me put it this way: the best astromech the rebels couldve gotten for the X-wing would be a 0 point astromech with no text on it. I like the idea that someone came up with in one of the design threads on the official forum: "Incessantly Beeping Astromech: 0 points. All ships within range 1 treat all (eye) results as (blank) results." Could be really interesting and really fun. But yeah 'R1 astromech, 0 points, exists' would be perfectly balanced at this point.
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Jul 12, 2016 23:34
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Eimi posted:If only Targeting Astro was one and a half points. Or one point, let Rebels have something criminally undercosted for once. At one point Targeting Astromech would be playable, not undercosted.
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Jul 12, 2016 23:47
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Devlan Mud posted:At one point Targeting Astromech would be playable, not undercosted. 
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Jul 13, 2016 00:17
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I maintain that what X-Wings need is a one point upgrade that reliably provides a focus or evade token each round. Otherwise you'll be taking a B-Wing if you're taking a generic jouster.
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Jul 13, 2016 01:06
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Endman posted:I maintain that what X-Wings need is a one point upgrade that reliably provides a focus or evade token each round. A one point with that kind of effect and IA would be an obscene jouster. Then again, FFG has been putting out stuff on another level with the imperial aces. A 0 point blank astromech would make it as good as a B-wing. A 1 point astromech that provides a free token or even a K4-security like effect would be obscene.
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Jul 13, 2016 01:09
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X-Wings are already close to B-Wings. The issue is competing with poo poo like the new Defenders.
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Jul 13, 2016 01:13
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Panzeh posted:A one point with that kind of effect and IA would be an obscene jouster. Then again, FFG has been putting out stuff on another level with the imperial aces. A 0 point blank astromech would make it as good as a B-wing. A 1 point astromech that provides a free token or even a K4-security like effect would be obscene. A -2 point upgrade that gives a free Evade token every turn without spending an Action is obscene on paper and yet here we are.
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Jul 13, 2016 01:15
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Corbeau posted:X-Wings are already close to B-Wings. The issue is competing with poo poo like the new Defenders. This. 4BZ ain't exactly repping right now. Some Numbers posted:A -2 point upgrade that gives a free Evade token every turn without spending an Action is obscene on paper and yet here we are. The defender was dogshit before and needed singificant change but then this is pretty crazy going the other way!
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Jul 13, 2016 01:20
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Wraith Squadron Infiltrators -1 point, T-65 Only For every friendly ship with this title, deal one damage to another ship before the first Activation Phase. Hire me, FFG.
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Jul 13, 2016 01:25
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The need to deliver high quality attacks to deal with imperial aces and to a much lesser extent brobots has reaaally warped the game as a tournament guy. The basic way to gently caress up Imperial aces either being able to deliver potent 4 die attacks(crackbots/jumpmasters/dash) or loving with their green dice (crackswarms/zuckuss/wedge/wes). The party bus is a good ship, though. Wonderful ship.
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Jul 13, 2016 01:35
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Scum's crew options are outstanding, especially with wave 8's. Also the whole differential between 2 and 3 green dice has really gotten worse. Take for example Strobe's Defender list. Sure Imperials might not be able dodge every shot, but they can, while Rebels are just utterly vulnerable to tractor beam in an insane way. So the tools to fight Imp Aces just utterly steamroll statistically average Rebels. Probably too much  from me though.
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Jul 13, 2016 03:51
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Panzeh posted:A one point with that kind of effect and IA would be an obscene jouster. Then again, FFG has been putting out stuff on another level with the imperial aces. A 0 point blank astromech would make it as good as a B-wing. A 1 point astromech that provides a free token or even a K4-security like effect would be obscene. Considering how quickly X-Wings melt at the moment, even with IA, I think calling it obscene is a bit of an exaggeration. X-Wings have terrible action economy, no repositioning and are made out of papier mâché. Reliably getting a token each turn fixes two of those problems. As a good comparison, a Blue Squadron B-Wing with Fire Control System is more durable, has the ability to barrel roll and gives you a target lock without needing an action all for only 24 points. If giving X-Wings something similar counts as "obscene" then the game has been obscene since wave 3.
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Jul 13, 2016 04:39
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The more I think about it the more I think 4 Reds with R3 and Integrated might be one of the best jousting lists in the game. You're not losing a lot on offense, but you're adding an evade token to a ship that's already 6 EHP and you're still getting offensive mods with a target lock (or doubling up on defense by taking a focus and just not spending it). You out PS the generic Defenders that x7 turns into such magnificent jousters, out PS Scouts, and (at worst) match the 5A Crack swarm. With what's effectively 7 EHP and two green dice you can reliably survive two torpedoes (not just require, but survive) and that's not a small thing in today's alpha strike meta. I really, really doubt it's top tier due to its serious disadvantage against ace builds of any stripe, but it might show up a couple times in tournaments.
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Jul 13, 2016 04:51
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Dumb question. I want all my TIE series starfighters to match color, in ESB and ROTJ blue. I'm way too lazy to paint them, so I'm looking to swap them out as I get them. Right now I have a single Gamma Squadron Bomber mini from Imp Vets that I'm looking to trade for a regular bomber. Anyone game?
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Jul 13, 2016 07:18
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Kilo147 posted:Dumb question. I want all my TIE series starfighters to match color, in ESB and ROTJ blue. I'm way too lazy to paint them, so I'm looking to swap them out as I get them. Right now I have a single Gamma Squadron Bomber mini from Imp Vets that I'm looking to trade for a regular bomber. Anyone game? Sure?
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Jul 13, 2016 08:32
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Strobe posted:The more I think about it the more I think 4 Reds with R3 and Integrated might be one of the best jousting lists in the game. You're not losing a lot on offense, but you're adding an evade token to a ship that's already 6 EHP and you're still getting offensive mods with a target lock (or doubling up on defense by taking a focus and just not spending it). You out PS the generic Defenders that x7 turns into such magnificent jousters, out PS Scouts, and (at worst) match the 5A Crack swarm. With what's effectively 7 EHP and two green dice you can reliably survive two torpedoes (not just require, but survive) and that's not a small thing in today's alpha strike meta. Would you put Flechettes on them to finish out the points? 92 point bid seems a little high 
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Jul 13, 2016 08:33
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Strobe posted:The more I think about it the more I think 4 Reds with R3 and Integrated might be one of the best jousting lists in the game. You're not losing a lot on offense, but you're adding an evade token to a ship that's already 6 EHP and you're still getting offensive mods with a target lock (or doubling up on defense by taking a focus and just not spending it). You out PS the generic Defenders that x7 turns into such magnificent jousters, out PS Scouts, and (at worst) match the 5A Crack swarm. With what's effectively 7 EHP and two green dice you can reliably survive two torpedoes (not just require, but survive) and that's not a small thing in today's alpha strike meta. Remember that you're not even remotely guaranteed to get the evade token and that when you do your offense is taking a hit. R3 is okay at best, but the fact that you have no control over which ship will get an evade is pretty big. Like sure, in a joust, some of them might get an evade, but it's really unlikely that all 4 would. So I'd just shoot the one without and kill it. Rinse and repeat. Admiral Joeslop posted:Would you put Flechettes on them to finish out the points? 92 point bid seems a little high It's 100 points, Red squads are 23 base.
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Jul 13, 2016 09:11
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Some Numbers posted:Sure? Kilo147 (at) Live.com The same goes for TIE Fighters and Tie Advanceds when I get them, I'll be wanting the blue TIEs from the Gozanti and the blue Advanced from the Raider. I don't really care about the cards, just the ships. Kilo147 fucked around with this message at 10:49 on Jul 13, 2016 |
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Jul 13, 2016 10:31
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We're not expecting any more releases between now and Gencon, are we? I need to figure out what to play for Nationals and Launch Bay. Thinking Inqy+Soontir+Palpatine for old faithful, and a brobots list for my 2nd launch bay list.
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Jul 13, 2016 15:03
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So the next local tourney is a hired guns event, 100 points of rebels or imperials that must include between 35-45 points of scum. The kicker is that unique pilots can use crew and EPT from either faction in the list. So I'm racking my brains for the most broken poo poo. This is where I'm at: VT-49 Decimator: •Rear Admiral Chiraneau (62) •Experimental Interface (3) Expose (4) •Gonk (2) •Dengar (3) •Ysanne Isard (4) Jumpmaster 5000: •Manaroo (38) Guidance Chips (0) Deadeye (1) Plasma Torpedoes (3) Extra Munitions (2) Recon Specialist (3) R4 Agromech (2) Do greens all day with the decimator and you can gonk, expose, and evade (once you're damaged) every turn. Between Dengar and RACs ability you've got decent mods for your 4-5 dice. Manaroo can also throw focus out, when she's not torping. The other option is swap Manaroo out for 3Zs to fly interference as your opponent will beeline for the Decimator and Zs are annoying as hell if left alone. The other option is the Party decimator with Dengar, zuckuss and 4LOM. Has a lower damage ceiling than expose version but probably does more consistent damage to imperial assholes. Dies a lot faster without the 2 damage mitigation per turn. I still feel there's a more broken combo out there though... Mindlink swarm? Kavil with Ruthlessness?
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Jul 13, 2016 15:11
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No man, you set up a loving Decimator party bus. Jesus, the idea gets me loving stoked. Rear Admiral Chiraneau (46) Predator (3) Zuckuss (1) 4-LOM (1) Darth Vader (3) Total: 54 You're going to get a full 3 hits with your primary almost every time, actionless, and then you deny your enemies the ability to evade it. Then you finish them off with Vader. Alternately swap out Predator and Vader for VI and Dengar at 52 points, but I think that having Vader to finish off enemies is going to be better. Maybe back it up with a YV-666. Latts Razzi would let you reduce the agility of an enemy ship by 1 for your Decimator party bus. Latts Razzi (33) Dengar (3) Gunner (5) Bossk (2) Total: 43 This would leave you at 97 points. Maybe inertial dampeners on latts?
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Jul 13, 2016 15:43
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The thing is my first list is a super hard counter to what you posted. Our offensive output is about the same, 4 hits 1-2 crits, but it costs you two health for that extra crit, meanwhile I'm evading one of your damage and getting myself a shield every turn even on the bump by using EI from the Ysard evade. I don't really expect any imperial assholes lists because Scum don't really have any ships worthy, though a fat Guri with omega and Palp may be the only competitive version of the archetype. Do to crew swapping being the most interesting interaction I'm expecting lots more big ships with crew, which becomes a straight up damage race. Also toying with the idea of a Howl, 3 black crack, serrisu and kaato swarm.
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Jul 13, 2016 15:56
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hoiyes posted:The thing is my first list is a super hard counter to what you posted. Our offensive output is about the same, 4 hits 1-2 crits, but it costs you two health for that extra crit, meanwhile I'm evading one of your damage and getting myself a shield every turn even on the bump by using EI from the Ysard evade. 4-Lom can prevent you from using your evade token. Granted not forever but perhaps for long enough.
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Jul 13, 2016 16:07
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Eimi posted:Also the whole differential between 2 and 3 green dice has really gotten worse. Take for example Strobe's Defender list. Sure Imperials might not be able dodge every shot, but they can, while Rebels are just utterly vulnerable to tractor beam in an insane way. So the tools to fight Imp Aces just utterly steamroll statistically average Rebels. Probably too much This is exactly how I feel. Three greens are a nice asset. Two greens are a weird bonus that allow you to occasionally get lucky, but you've got to plan your moves like they don't even exist. I think the Wang could use some consistency help. It should never be allowed to token-fort like an interceptor or defender, but something to allow it to *reliably* get two evades would help a lot. And with any luck, because two evades is a relatively modest amount, this wouldn't feed into the meta's problem with attack inflation! e: I guess R3 Astro was someone's attempt to do this, maybe?
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Jul 13, 2016 16:30
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The Gate posted:
I was looking at the mobile squad builder; it said the R3 was 0 points and I didn't even question it 
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Jul 13, 2016 16:54
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hoiyes posted:The thing is my first list is a super hard counter to what you posted. Our offensive output is about the same, 4 hits 1-2 crits, but it costs you two health for that extra crit, meanwhile I'm evading one of your damage and getting myself a shield every turn even on the bump by using EI from the Ysard evade. No it's not a hard counter. 4-LOM denies that evade token, if you get it, but you won't because you used EI to gonk and expose, giving you stress. You can't Ysanne if you're stressed. So you regen one shield a turn, but you're taking like 6-8 damage per turn. That decimator still dies in 3 rounds, tops. Making a defensive decimator is futile. Even if you add Gonk.
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Jul 13, 2016 17:13
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X-Wings are in such a weird spot in the meta. Both versions seem like holdouts from the early days of the game when positioning was pretty much the only thing. Positioning still is the most important part, but dice consistency is the thing floating to the top. Now it seems like X Wings only hit the table for the great unique pilots like Poe, Biggs, and Wedge who only get on the table in spite of their lousy ships. If I could run 4x generic X Wings with Crack Shot I'd be all over that. But whoops, there are no generic T-65s with an EPT (the first one in ascending cost order that gets one is Porkins, at PS7 and 26 points) T-70 Red Squadron Veterans are 26 points, so too expensive for 4 cracks in a squad. (I'll note that they're 3 points more expensive than their T-65 counterparts, and for that they get the T-rolls on the dial, an extra shield, and an EPT slot.
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Jul 13, 2016 17:13
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ConfusedUs posted:No it's not a hard counter. You can't use Ysanne if you've Gonk'd anyway, you either gain a shield OR get an evade token not both.
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Jul 13, 2016 17:24
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ConfusedUs posted:No it's not a hard counter. You use EI off the Yssane action then green next turn.  Your decimator dies in 2 rounds just about every time if you use vader both rounds. That's an extra round of shooting against latts before my deci probably dies, though I can also bump the deci against latts as I please, and gonk my shields back up at my leisure forcing you to be proactive to avoid any bump.
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Jul 13, 2016 17:27
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ConfusedUs posted:No it's not a hard counter. Only defensive decimator build is Veteran Instincts/Engine Upgrade Chiraneau.
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Jul 13, 2016 18:34
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Where do people go for the private market for this game? Individual ships and all that. EBay seems to have a lot of cards but I don't see any big wholesalers for ships there.
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Jul 13, 2016 19:44
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JerikTelorian posted:Where do people go for the private market for this game? Individual ships and all that. EBay seems to have a lot of cards but I don't see any big wholesalers for ships there. Are you trying to buy the models without buying the blisters?
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Jul 13, 2016 19:53
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Some Numbers posted:Are you trying to buy the models without buying the blisters? Yeah. Specifically, I want to get my hands on two of the blue TIEs from the Gozanti, so I have have a full compliment of four.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:05
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Quick ebay search for x-wing gozanti shows 3 listings that are the TIE models and dials only
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Jul 13, 2016 21:09
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General Battuta posted:This is exactly how I feel. Three greens are a nice asset. Two greens are a weird bonus that allow you to occasionally get lucky, but you've got to plan your moves like they don't even exist. Multiple focuses maybe? Or an autothrusters like ability to change a blank to an evade, but doesn't add results? canyoneer posted:X-Wings are in such a weird spot in the meta. Both versions seem like holdouts from the early days of the game when positioning was pretty much the only thing. Positioning still is the most important part, but dice consistency is the thing floating to the top. The sad thing with the T-70, and I'm sure Strobe will fight me on this, is that it needs help too. Because the T-65 exists and is overcosted, but because they couldn't just flat out obsolete the T-65, it was priced in accordance with an already overcosted ship, so it remains overcosted. Both need some kind of cost reduction or way to get more out of your points.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:43
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JerikTelorian posted:Where do people go for the private market for this game? Individual ships and all that. EBay seems to have a lot of cards but I don't see any big wholesalers for ships there. Facebook X-wing swap and sell. People are always elated when you just want to buy the ship models.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:52
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Eimi posted:Multiple focuses maybe? Or an autothrusters like ability to change a blank to an evade, but doesn't add results? This is "Finster Star Wars headcanon" but I always figured the X-wings were tougher AND more maneuverable than TIE/ln fighters, but not outright faster in terms of top speed. That's why the empire made Interceptors. Now the empire has a fighter that can maneuver as well as the X-wing, if not better than! And then the B-wing is the bigger cousin of the clunky Y-wing and the A-wing is faster and more maneuverable than them all! But instead, Every TIE is better than every comparable rebel ship in terms of maneuvers. IMHO, Imp Aces should never be a thing. It should've always been swarms as the dominant Imp list. And FWIW, Palpatine is less of a factor in that environment because his effect is spread out over more ships. But somewhere along the way, Fel happened. And then The Inquisitor. And suddenly Imp Aces trump Rebel Aces. Rebels should've always been the dominant hotshot pilots, and TIEs should've always been the "swarm" ships. In my headcanon, Darth Vader is probably reasonable for an Imp Ace, and should be top tier in terms of being the go-to option for an Imp list that has an ace. Just like Rebels have A-wings or Z-95s as a swarm option. But I dunno, this is all moot, because to do anything like that at this point just won't ever happen. Instead, the only thing I can think of is that they should have cheap astromechs that open up the dials and these lovely ARC pilots should all be thrown in the trash, tbh. Why doesn't Shara Bey or Norra Wexley have a Soontir-like ability? The EU material supports in both of their cases. I think they should've just straight up given them Soontir's text. Get a focus token when you get a stress token.
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Jul 13, 2016 22:39
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Shara not being a hotshot ace stings me the most, because firstly she's Poe's mom and then secondly she is normally an A-wing pilot.  I also never saw B-wings as incredibly clunky, more the P-38 Lightning to the Xwing's P-51 Mustang. (Or is the Xwing the Spitfire? I don't know enough about British planes to know what that makes the B-Wing though.) I do think both sides should have cool ace pilots and characters, but yes that Imperial generics should've been more useful and comparatively Rebels would have more weight to go with named pilots. c'est la vie. I still have no idea why as a space superiority fighter the Xwing can't make a 1 hard though.
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Jul 13, 2016 22:49
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I've always based my own interpretation of ships from X-Wing/TIE Fighter, in which the TIE/ln is indeed more manoeuvrable than an X-Wing. IIRC both the X-Wing and TIE FIghter were meant to have the same speed in space, with both of them clocking in at 100 Megalights, while the TIE Interceptor had 111 and the a-wing 120. The only discrepancy between the film and the video game is the Y-Wing IMO, which isn't too bad in the film but in the video games it's a huge pile of crap. Also imp aces should be a thing, and I think it makes sense in a canon way because in order to survive as an imp ace you need a heck of a lot of balls, so only the truly good remain. I agree that reb aces should still be dominant though, but these are just all issues that were created in the first few waves because they didn't really see what direction the game was going afterwards.
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Jul 13, 2016 22:49
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Chill la Chill posted:Facebook X-wing swap and sell. People are always elated when you just want to buy the ship models. That sounds great. I sold off the ties from the old core set to my buddy who just wanted to use them for academy swarms...without realizing that they had the named pilots on the other side of the cardboard things that go on the stands!
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