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I told you so, jerk!
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Jul 13, 2016 19:53
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Dragonshirt posted:I told you so, jerk! What do you believe in?
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Jul 13, 2016 19:56
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Eskaton posted:Like if you went into this whole religion thing looking for testable claims, you kinda completely missed the point, dude. Why should religious claims be immune from testability?
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Jul 13, 2016 20:02
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GAINING WEIGHT... posted:Why should religious claims be immune from testability? They're not..? I didn't say that. That's not the point of religion.
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Jul 13, 2016 20:03
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Dragonshirt posted:I told you so, jerk! I still want McDowell to post, though.
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Jul 13, 2016 20:03
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Can you at least masturbate in heaven, McDowell? This is sounding awful.
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Jul 13, 2016 20:04
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McDowell posted:What do you believe in? Dragonshirt posted:My god is the sun, and he has been very angry lately.
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Jul 13, 2016 20:04
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Buckwheat Sings posted:I like how crazy things are getting. Though you could argue they're only crazy because the ideas aren't centuries old. Eh, There are precidents for most of it in Gnosticism. A lot of the crazy of this type is reacted to and rejected in the Nicene Creed.
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Jul 13, 2016 20:09
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Since I'm new to the thread, I'm directly addressing the thread title question. I've never really explained this to anyone, and never articulated into words what I feel about this subject. I was raised, in a sense, as a catholic. I remember attending church when I was a child, and I went to CCE (continuing christian education) classes at said church for years, during my middle and high school years. I received confirmation. Currently I would say I'm a atheist who desperately wants to believe God exists. I want to believe that beyond death there is a Heaven. I had nightmares about dying growing up. As a child, as a tween, as a teen -- let me rephrase that; it wouldn't be nightmares, it would be sudden episodes where I'd realize that when I die, I cease any awareness. That's what frightened me the most. Still now, if I think about it, I'll break out in a sweat and probably have a panic attack. I want to believe because ceasing to exist terrifies me. Heaven, Hell, reincarnation, a formless void, anything is better than the absence of any form of awareness.
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Jul 13, 2016 20:12
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Jizz Festival posted:Can you at least masturbate in heaven, McDowell? This is sounding awful. You wouldn't want or need to. I'm still human so I understand how that can make you hesitate. Heaven isn't a TV and an EZ-chair made from clouds - it is a place of joyful service. In 'Beyond Human' there is brief mention that there may be a level above the next, which could involve going completely outside this universe - but that isn't for us to concern ourselves with here on Earth.
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Jul 13, 2016 20:13
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I really enjoy the idea of Double Secret Heaven.
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Jul 13, 2016 20:21
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McDowell posted:You wouldn't want or need to. I'm still human so I understand how that can make you hesitate. Heaven isn't a TV and an EZ-chair made from clouds - it is a place of joyful service. In 'Beyond Human' there is brief mention that there may be a level above the next, which could involve going completely outside this universe - but that isn't for us to concern ourselves with here on Earth. Wait, do you think heaven is in space, inside the universe?
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Jul 13, 2016 20:37
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Who What Now posted:Wait, do you think heaven is in space, inside the universe? You think it isn't or could not be? The sky has always been 'The Heavens'. We only perceive linear time and particular forms of matter/energy - consider how our sense of passing time is completely dependent on a gravitational field.
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Jul 13, 2016 20:47
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McDowell posted:You think it isn't or could not be? The sky has always been 'The Heavens'. We only perceive linear time and particular forms of matter/energy - consider how our sense of passing time is completely dependent on a gravitational field. If this is true then if humanity ever becomes a space-faring race we're going to find and conquer heaven. This sounds rad as gently caress. Now I do want to live forever so I can lead my space marines in glorious battle and charge against the pearly gates.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:19
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This may not be the thread we need (or want) but I guess it is the thread we deserve. 
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Jul 13, 2016 21:30
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Who What Now posted:If this is true then if humanity ever becomes a space-faring race we're going to find and conquer heaven. This sounds rad as gently caress. Now I do want to live forever so I can lead my space marines in glorious battle and charge against the pearly gates. If those ideas appeal to you sure, but know that is the opposition's outlook.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:37
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McDowell posted:If those ideas appeal to you sure, but know that is the opposition's outlook. Why is that bad?
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Jul 13, 2016 21:46
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Annual Prophet posted:This may not be the thread we need (or want) but I guess it is the thread we deserve. I'd rather this oddball discussion than the countless normal ones where all the religious folks either scamper off or echo chamber themselves in increasingly long paragraphs of dogma. Instead we get cool stuff like how heaven is actually a pocket universe inside Mcdowell's dad's bowling ball at a flea market in Bakersfield CA.
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Jul 13, 2016 22:27
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Buckwheat Sings posted:Heaven is actually a pocket universe inside Mcdowell's dad's bowling ball at a flea market in Bakersfield CA.
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Jul 13, 2016 22:54
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McDowell posted:You wouldn't want or need to. I'm still human so I understand how that can make you hesitate. Heaven isn't a TV and an EZ-chair made from clouds - it is a place of joyful service. In 'Beyond Human' there is brief mention that there may be a level above the next, which could involve going completely outside this universe - but that isn't for us to concern ourselves with here on Earth. "Joyful service" sounds like PR speak for "slavery". If the order spirit's domain is inside the universe, destruction of his plantation for the enslaved and decieved would be a moral action. The real god doesn't need servants. She wouldn't demand you bow to her. She wants you to be free, not to clothe yourself in chains. The creature that craves order and worship, that wants servants who call it Lord is the bad guy, McDowell. I hope you realise that some day.
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Jul 13, 2016 23:30
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McDowell posted:If those ideas appeal to you sure, but know that is the opposition's outlook. Perhaps you should rethink your service to the Demiurge and pursue true understanding.
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Jul 13, 2016 23:50
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Reveilled posted:The creature that craves order and worship, that wants servants who call it Lord is the bad guy, McDowell. I hope you realise that some day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VImnpErdDzA Jokes aside, this is pretty much true through pockets of history especially in light of recent things like being a part of repressing gay rights, black rights, and women's rights.
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Jul 13, 2016 23:57
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Perhaps you should rethink your service to the Demiurge and pursue true understanding. The Demiurge / Lucifer is the one building an army, pursuing stronger (less perishable) bodies, and offering 'cosmic consciousness'. The Kingdom of Heaven is never aggressive and there are many stepping stones to get there, they don't need humans - they welcome us as prodigal sons.
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Jul 14, 2016 00:05
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McDowell posted:The Demiurge / Lucifer is the one building an army, pursuing stronger (less perishable) bodies, and offering 'cosmic consciousness'. The Kingdom of Heaven is never aggressive and there are many stepping stones to get there, they don't need humans - they welcome us as prodigal sons. It sounds like Lucifer has our best interests at heart while heaven is a bunch of arrogant jerks who think they're too good to deal with us directly. Why shouldn't we ally with Lucifer, again? I'm look at the man:  I'd follow that man into a war on heaven. He's dreamy. 
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Jul 14, 2016 00:11
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McDowell posted:The Demiurge / Lucifer is the one building an army, pursuing stronger (less perishable) bodies, and offering 'cosmic consciousness'. The Kingdom of Heaven is never aggressive and there are many stepping stones to get there, they don't need humans - they welcome us as prodigal sons. On the contrary, cosmic conciousness is yet another flavour of the same scam that the order spirit always offers: "Obey me and cheat death".
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Jul 14, 2016 00:18
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Reveilled posted:On the contrary, cosmic conciousness is yet another flavour of the same scam that the order spirit always offers: "Obey me and cheat death". I'm not trying to cheat death, I could be considered 'suicidal' in Next Level terms because I am still on this planet, risking dissolution of the mind back into raw spirit material if that is deemed necessary. This Discordian ideology is interesting, I could be wrong but it seems like the mindset of Luciferians who have surrendered to their inevitable 'disorder' at the end of the universe - even a clever way to play possum and gather followers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-15KBICWiQ quote:I'll try to just put it as briefly as I can and as clearly as I can. This planet is about to be recycled, refurbished, started over. That doesn't mean it's going to be destroyed, it doesn't mean it's the end of the world. But it does mean that it is going to be spaded under. Now, you can say, "Well, who are you to say that?" And I'll tell you who I am. As to whether or not you believe who I am is up to you. And whether or not you believe that this civilization is going to be recycled or refurbished is up to you. Now, the purpose of this tape is to warn you that this is about to happen, and that it's going to happen very soon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7H00OUf1lA quote:Now, I've got to go back to the beginning of this tape, because I don't want you to listen to my philosophy, my ideology, the knowledge that I have. I want you to be aware that the focus is on the fact that this is the End of the Age. At the End of the Age the planet is wiped clean - refurbished - rejuvenated. The mess that the humans have made of it during this civilization is cleaned up. It is healed. It is probably done on "fast forward." It probably wouldn't take very long to do it by standards of human time. But even if it took a thousand years to do it, that's a very brief time according to Next Level time. We don't know how long it's going to take to do it. We can't estimate that because we're talking two different times anyhow. I mean, I'm trying to relate to you in human time and yet I am more at home in relating to the time of the Next Level. The USA invasion of Iraq started 6 years after the class departed - it is also around my vehicle's birthday. The Recycling process does not necessarily have to be an agonizing or fearsome event, however the bulk of human history suggests otherwise. Be the change you want to see in the world. Mc Do Well fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Jul 14, 2016 |
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Jul 14, 2016 00:42
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I'm really digging these random rear end youtube clips. All the way from ISIS to First Contact and Madtv
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Jul 14, 2016 00:48
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McDowell posted:I'm not trying to cheat death, I could be considered 'suicidal' in Next Level terms because I am still on this planet, risking dissolution of the mind back into raw spirit material if that is deemed necessary. This Discordian ideology is interesting, I could be wrong but it seems like the mindset of Luciferians who have surrendered to their inevitable 'disorder' at the end of the universe - even a clever way to play possum and gather followers. So what are you going to do when this world isn't recycled?
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Jul 14, 2016 00:53
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Who What Now posted:So what are you going to do when this world isn't recycled? It's happening in one form or another. Some people believe HIV is God* punishing humans for the Sex, Drugs, and Rock & Roll - but with Zika isn't that a fulfillment of the Pope's advice not to breed like rabbits - a condemnation of people who have schemes to outbreed the others? It is a fact that we are in a new geologic age - Anthropocene *HIV and other STIs have been present in human populations for a long time and we have just recently obtained the power and discipline to understand and create pandemics. McDowell posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OzV53zj1PA Zizek briefly mentions Fukushima and the human history of mass migrations. Stay Woke
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Jul 14, 2016 01:04
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McDowell posted:I'm not trying to cheat death, I could be considered 'suicidal' in Next Level terms because I am still on this planet, risking dissolution of the mind back into raw spirit material if that is deemed necessary. This Discordian ideology is interesting, I could be wrong but it seems like the mindset of Luciferians who have surrendered to their inevitable 'disorder' at the end of the universe - even a clever way to play possum and gather followers. But all this just typefies what I'm saying. The order spirit speaks to Heaven's Gate, and the result is death. It speaks to Joshua, and the result is death. It speaks to the crusaders, and the result is death. It speaks to ISIS, and the result is death. Death, death, death, over and over, at the hands of the order spirit or its agents and followers. And the promise, and the threat, are always the same: "Obey me, and get life eternal" "Obey me, because one day I will destroy the world" What horrific design could such a creature have, that craves our deaths so much that it makes us the false promise of eternal life? What do our deaths fuel? No altruistic being would demand worship, no altruistic being would be so vain as to demand we call it Lord. You can call it "recycling" or whatever euphemism you like, but I'd call it by it's true name: murder. Human history is full to the brim of murders and atrocities carried out by its agents. It corrupts mankind and tells us to kill each other and kill ourselves. That you'd face your death with such apparent eagerness saddens me; you only get this life, and you're using it in service to that thing. It has an ulterior motive, and that motive is not good.
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Jul 14, 2016 01:30
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McDowell posted:It's happening in one form or another. Some people believe HIV is God* punishing humans for the Sex, Drugs, and Rock & Roll - but with Zika isn't that a fulfillment of the Pope's advice not to breed like rabbits - a condemnation of people who have schemes to outbreed the others? So what're you gonna do when we cure those illnesses.
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Jul 14, 2016 01:49
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McDowell posted:but with Zika isn't that a fulfillment of the Pope's advice not to breed like rabbits - a condemnation of people who have schemes to outbreed the others? Yeah, that doesn't sound racist at all.
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Jul 14, 2016 10:20
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GAINING WEIGHT... posted:Why should religious claims be immune from testability? Religious person's claim: I believe that God is real because of my experiences Your claim: You do not believe that
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Jul 14, 2016 11:00
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Nude Bog Lurker posted:Religious person's claim: I believe that God is real because of my experiences Come on, you can think things through a little harder than that. I would never claim they don't believe it; on the contrary, as we saw in the other thread, I seem to be alone in arguing they do believe what they say they do, and are motivated by it. I would probably claim that their experiences don't actually lead to that conclusion. To the person who says they believe aliens are real because they were abducted the night before, I would not try to dispute that they actually believe it, but would instead explain the phenomenon called sleep paralysis and how the aliens were, to put it bluntly, all in their head. A religious person's claims would be no different.
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Jul 14, 2016 14:45
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whoah mcdowwel went crazy drat. um i blieve in god because some jewish guy 2k years ago said some nice things that apparently resonated enough taht i was taught them and its pretty cool my god's main super power is turning water into liquor so eh if someone can do that im a bliever
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Jul 14, 2016 16:58
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GAINING WEIGHT... posted:I would probably claim that their experiences don't actually lead to that conclusion. This here's yer problem. *kicks tires
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Jul 14, 2016 17:06
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Baloogan posted:whoah mcdowwel went crazy Still not as rad as the new zoroaster-donut religion.  I'll stick with my science fetishism, Jesus never sent a man to the moon or a robot to Mars. 
Mo_Steel fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Jul 14, 2016 |
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Jul 14, 2016 17:42
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one of the first things we did on the moon was ritualistically eat and drink the blood of jesus
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Jul 14, 2016 17:47
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BrandorKP posted:This here's yer problem. *kicks tires No, I really don't think so. To be clear, I'm not one to deny that believers have the experiences they say they do. But these transcendent experiences happen in so many contexts, both within and outside of religion, that there's no way they can be used to prove one specific doctrine or another. Yes, you feel good while singing in church, or you convince yourself your prayers are answered, or you partake in some indescribable feeling of love, but none of these things prove a Palestinian rose from the dead 2000 years ago. That's a complete non-sequitor. I think the "religious experience" angle is one of the most prolific reasons that convince believers of their respective doctrine - in fact testing that hypothesis was one of my main reasons for starting this thread. And I think too often believers assume that these experiences only happen to people in their religion, or that it doesn't take the same form in other contexts, or isn't felt to the same degree. It's cultural ignorance, essentially; a lack of empathy. A refusal to examine the lives of others because of a presumption that you've got it all figured out already. Unless you've had a "religious experience" of the sort that entailed literal supernatural events, like a vision of Jesus appeared to you and five other people in a room and told you in a booming voice that he was the son of God, but I take it that this hasn't happened to you. If you can give me something that is literally only explicable by the tenants of Christianity and the existence of a God, then I'll recant the above.
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Jul 14, 2016 18:35
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OK, You are doubling down on: Other people who have had different life experiences than I have had reach conclusions I disagree and are wrong. You don't see the problem or the fundamental hypocrisy with thinking that way? Isn't how a fundamentalist thinks about the gay community? And again not all religious people have had spiritual experiences either.
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Jul 14, 2016 20:08
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