|
Polyakov posted:I'm not sure that the A-Bomb would be that decisive, just because in a situation where you have the entire production of the rest of the world churning out fighters and have the capability to man the IADS that would be set up, unescorted bombers are not getting through especially not after the x-thousand mile flight over the atlantic to reach a target, also suddenly the japanese dont have to deal with the chinese so have a lot more men and machines to throw into the pacific to hold islands. It's not necessarily the bomb itself, but the bomb paired with the B-36. The Peacemaker was literally designed for the task of flying across the Atlantic and Pacific to drop bombs on target from above the effective altitude of AAA and interceptors, and in the narrow window of 1946-48 (Assuming it's rushed into service far quicker than it was IRL), when paired with the bomb it would have been a nigh-unstoppable machine of unimaginable destruction. (Of course, this is assuming that enemy interceptors don't get better faster, or that the British don't collaborate with the Germans to develop SAMs, etc... it's alt-history, what can you do  )
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 04:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 18:35 |
|
|
Isn't the US's population vastly more widely distributed than Russia's? Like even if you got through from the east coast to Chicago, you'd still have the west coast cranking out stuff, and if you tried to take the west coast first, you'd have even more of a nightmare trying to get a handle of the endless tracts of nothing in the midwest before you confront the east coast population centers. Theoretically, the way that the US has moved out of manufacturing would screw us in the event of another massive-scale world war, but I think the general consensus of most people is that we could probably put the world into a quick apocalypse if we really needed to, so none of that would become relevant.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 04:29
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:Isn't the US's population vastly more widely distributed than Russia's? Like even if you got through from the east coast to Chicago, you'd still have the west coast cranking out stuff, and if you tried to take the west coast first, you'd have even more of a nightmare trying to get a handle of the endless tracts of nothing in the midwest before you confront the east coast population centers. Russia has less than half the population and nearly twice the land area of the US, with a good chunk of Russia being nearly depopulated and downright inhospitable weather-wise.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 04:48
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:Isn't the US's population vastly more widely distributed than Russia's? Like even if you got through from the east coast to Chicago, you'd still have the west coast cranking out stuff, and if you tried to take the west coast first, you'd have even more of a nightmare trying to get a handle of the endless tracts of nothing in the midwest before you confront the east coast population centers. Yeah, it'd be something along the lines of pushing to Chicago against the Union or something like that. Also I'm pretty sure military manufacturing isn't nearly as fungible with civilian manufacturing as it was in WWII.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 05:30
|
|
|
xthetenth posted:Yeah, it'd be something along the lines of pushing to Chicago against the Union or something like that. Also I'm pretty sure military manufacturing isn't nearly as fungible with civilian manufacturing as it was in WWII.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 05:51
|
|
|
Unless the Pacific Navy was magically split so that more mainline ships were in the Atlantic, I could see the US East coast hit hard by the combined British/German Navy. And something similar would occur with ground forces in the Pacific Front as the entirety of the conflict in China would end and all troops involved would be sent to boost up the islands to make it even more costly to try and take.Acebuckeye13 posted:It's not necessarily the bomb itself, but the bomb paired with the B-36. The Peacemaker was literally designed for the task of flying across the Atlantic and Pacific to drop bombs on target from above the effective altitude of AAA and interceptors, and in the narrow window of 1946-48 (Assuming it's rushed into service far quicker than it was IRL), when paired with the bomb it would have been a nigh-unstoppable machine of unimaginable destruction. (Of course, this is assuming that enemy interceptors don't get better faster, or that the British don't collaborate with the Germans to develop SAMs, etc... it's alt-history, what can you do I am not so sure how the timeline for the B-36 would change though. With the need to bomb almost everywhere the need for a plane like that would be very crucial, but on the flip side a lot of resources that the US was able to pump into research thanks to being almost untouchable would vanish as they would need to produce enough goods to make sure they had enough conventional planes to work with before anything else. In fact depending upon how we want to play this all out, I could see the US being hurt internally by the more extreme Communist cells making any ambitions for major development goals unsure.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 05:52
|
|
|
The two oceans make it very unlikely anything would happen in either direction in any reasonable amount of time assuming the 1945 timeline we all know. The problem with this though is that once you start advancing the clock you get into gay black hitler territory so fast and throuoghly that it becomes impossible to really make any reasonable inference about capabilities. Maybe we militarize the entire US population and nuke everyone before 1950, or maybe the entirety of Eurasia gets their poo poo together and pulls off a full invasion through Iceland > Canada that wrecks the industrial heartlands in the midwest. I mean who the gently caress knows. It's too far gone from reality to paint a solidified picture in either direction. Mazz fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Jul 14, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 06:35
|
|
|
Braveheart will always be one of my favorite movies despite all it's hilarious and ridiculous anachronisms but something it definitely does right: conveying that winning a battle sucks, too. War just sucks.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 07:20
|
|
|
Also surprisingly good at conveying that idea: children's novel The Hobbit.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 07:21
|
|
|
I'm a bit out of the loop here, but have this article http://shannonselin.com/2016/07/napoleonic-battlefield-cleanup/
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 07:44
|
|
|
quote:It is certainly a singular fact, that Great Britain should have sent out such multitudes of soldiers to fight the battles of this country upon the continent of Europe, and should then import their bones as an article of commerce to fatten her soil!
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 07:54
|
|
|
JaucheCharly posted:I'm a bit out of the loop here, but have this article Interesting article. The bit about the bones was really something.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 08:05
|
|
|
finally, i found an area where my guys are more humane than their descendants
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 10:15
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:It's not necessarily the bomb itself, but the bomb paired with the B-36. The Peacemaker was literally designed for the task of flying across the Atlantic and Pacific to drop bombs on target from above the effective altitude of AAA and interceptors, and in the narrow window of 1946-48 (Assuming it's rushed into service far quicker than it was IRL), when paired with the bomb it would have been a nigh-unstoppable machine of unimaginable destruction. (Of course, this is assuming that enemy interceptors don't get better faster, or that the British don't collaborate with the Germans to develop SAMs, etc... it's alt-history, what can you do Counterpoint: in this weird world we've just imagined where the British Empire, France, Germany, the Soviet Union and Japan are all on the same side, the only people with jet fighters of any sort are in Europe. No Rolls-Royce Derwent engines for you, America! And if anyone's going to develop an effective SAM on a crash basis, it's going to be the Germans. They were working on it as-is, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henschel_Hs_117 and suchlike.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 10:20
|
|
feedmegin posted:Counterpoint: in this weird world we've just imagined where the British Empire, France, Germany, the Soviet Union and Japan are all on the same side, the only people with jet fighters of any sort are in Europe. No Rolls-Royce Derwent engines for you, America! See also: radar, computing, etc.. Additionally, plenty of nuclear scientists to go round. Also the USN is great and all but the RN + IJN + Kriegsmarine is no joke if it collectively turns its attention to naval aviation. It's a goofy thought experiment anyway.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 10:24
|
|
|
HEY GAL posted:finally, i found an area where my guys are more humane than their descendants Don't think for a moment that Wallenstein wouldn't have done that exact same poo poo if the principles of fertilization would have been better understood in the 17th century.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 10:32
|
|
|
I just want to know what faux pas Roosevelt did to unite the entire world against the US.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 11:18
|
|
|
Fangz posted:I just want to know what faux pas Roosevelt did to unite the entire world against the US.  I'm really, really bad at 'shopping
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 11:54
|
|
|
Fangz posted:I just want to know what faux pas Roosevelt did to unite the entire world against the US. He knows what he did.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 11:59
|
|
|
quote:the good farmers of Yorkshire are, in a great measure, indebted to the bones of their children for their daily bread. The bigotted "THANK ARE TROOPS!" newspaper columns certainly were more interesting back in the day.  Even if I'm catching a satirical tone in the writing... right??
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 12:29
|
|
|
cheerfullydrab posted:Also surprisingly good at conveying that idea: children's novel The Hobbit. Children's novel The Hobbit, written by 2nd Lieutenant JRR Tolkien (ret'd), late of the 11th (Service) Battalion, Lancashire Fusiliers, veteran of the Somme. If ever there was a collection of battles to teach people that you can win on paper and yet it still sucks a whole lot...
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 12:51
|
|
|
P-Mack posted:Chinese bandit fact- Nothing wrong with being into bears
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 13:04
|
|
|
Disinterested posted:See also: radar, computing, etc.. Additionally, plenty of nuclear scientists to go round. Also the USN is great and all but the RN + IJN + Kriegsmarine is no joke if it collectively turns its attention to naval aviation. Combined, the RN, IJN and Kriegsmarine (not sure why you picked them since France and possibly Italy have stronger navies) have less carrier aviation capability than the US. In fact they probably have comparable capacity to just the short hull Essexes. They do have closer to parity in modern battleships though if I don't miss my count!
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 13:28
|
|
|
so britain and japan are on the same side here, but has this scenario managed to put the ija on the same side as the ijn?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 13:31
|
|
|
My initial question was strictly in terms of industry but I like the direction this thing has taken
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 13:39
|
|
HEY GAL posted:so britain and japan are on the same side here, but has this scenario managed to put the ija on the same side as the ijn? The IJN and the Royal Navy built a tree house and currently hanging a 'no landsmen' sign on the front. JaucheCharly posted:I'm a bit out of the loop here, but have this article Interesting and delicious!
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 13:48
|
|
|
xthetenth posted:Combined, the RN, IJN and Kriegsmarine (not sure why you picked them since France and possibly Italy have stronger navies) have less carrier aviation capability than the US. In fact they probably have comparable capacity to just the short hull Essexes. They do have closer to parity in modern battleships though if I don't miss my count! Timing matters, of course. If this is in 1945, most of the IJN is at the bottom of the Pacific, most of the surface Kriegsmarine is at the bottom of the Atlantic, and most of the French navy is at the bottom of the Med. But yeah, Glorious Eurasia's fleet certainly isn't going to steam straight across the Atlantic and show the USN what-for. That's true in the other direction as well though given the sort of combined land-based aviation we'd be looking at. Same sort of reason the modern USN can't just park a carrier right off the Chinese coast with impunity.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 13:49
|
|
|
SeanBeansShako posted:The IJN and the Royal Navy
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 13:49
|
|
|
feedmegin posted:Timing matters, of course. If this is in 1945, most of the IJN is at the bottom of the Pacific, most of the surface Kriegsmarine is at the bottom of the Atlantic, and most of the French navy is at the bottom of the Med.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 13:50
|
|
HEY GAL posted:how much whiskey are we talking here A lot, and then the Royal Navy showed the IJN the whole carrier concept and well, they got interested. Also, I believe the IJN to be the best at building ramshackle on the spot tree houses because have you seen the signal towers on their ships?
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 13:52
|
|
|
xthetenth posted:Combined, the RN, IJN and Kriegsmarine (not sure why you picked them since France and possibly Italy have stronger navies) have less carrier aviation capability than the US. In fact they probably have comparable capacity to just the short hull Essexes. They do have closer to parity in modern battleships though if I don't miss my count! It would take quite a while to get Axis naval aviation up to a workable level. Also, can you imagine a combined RN / IJN TF or even separate TFs trying to work together? There's a lot of value to having everyone working out of the same playbook with the same equipment, training and doctrine.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 13:52
|
|
|
KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:It would take quite a while to get Axis naval aviation up to a workable level. True. I'd sort of expect the RN would handle the Atlantic, the Japanese the Pacific, and each be the prime movers in each case. Nazis, Italians, Soviets etc get to train on Zeros or Fairey Fulmars and fly off British/Japanese built carriers. (which, btw, does this mean Britain and Russia have both gone full Nazi? ick. There are some unfortunate implications here)
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 13:57
|
|
|
feedmegin posted:(which, btw, does this mean Britain and Russia have both gone full Nazi? ick. There are some unfortunate implications here) except america
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 13:57
|
|
|
HEY GAL posted:other way around, everyone's the good guys MacArthur coup, Kaiserreich style.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 14:05
|
|
|
Clearly, a MacArthur coup would end by a bunch of privates killing him outside a bar or something with consecrated Patton-model cavalry sabres or something.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 14:07
|
|
Kemper Boyd posted:Clearly, a MacArthur coup would end by a bunch of privates killing him outside a bar or something with consecrated Patton-model cavalry sabres or something. The best ending in this hosed up alt history reality we're playing with here.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 14:11
|
|
|
KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:MacArthur coup, Kaiserreich style. Or Amerikareichsfuhrer Lindbergh. I'm down for a war of liberation by the united Eurasian Democratic Union to free America from tyranny. Gotta admit, it'd be interesting to see Pearl Harbor done with the IJN, the RN and why not the Graf Zeppelin as well.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 14:19
|
|
|
in fascist america, bismarck sinks you
HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Jul 14, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 14:21
|
|
|
Nenonen posted:The bigotted "THANK ARE TROOPS!" newspaper columns certainly were more interesting back in the day. I got a little bit of an "A Modest Proposal " vibe too. Harvesting teeth for dentures was the most sickening part to me.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 15:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 18:35 |
|
|
Tree Bucket posted:I was thinking the exact same thing. "Zeuge mich, Blutsack" sounds kinda naughty it should be "bezeuge" I just realized that I have no idea how they translated all this for the localized version. It has to be hilarious.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 15:23
|
|
