Lladre posted:

So I did not want to post anything until the balances hit my account.

While my story may not be the 3k windfall of Streetroller, It was still predicated on the same principle.
And we both had filed our own BBB reports unbeknownst to each other. I received my response a few
days before he did.

Back in January 2014, everyone was still believing that the game could be made and be fun. So I bought
a Constellation (Large multi-person ship for exploration) package. (It was my guess that the package was
like most games in the sense that the six month’s insurance would amount to a 14 dollar a month style
charge, plus I would get a nifty USB drive and some other poo poo I cared nothing about). So I filled in the
goonrathi spreadsheet, I tried out the hangar when it came out, then I completely forgot about the
whole thing. I had moved on, you know doing stuff in real life having fun. Hell even playing games
online.

Fast forward to June 2015: I got major reconstructive surgery done on my rotator cuff to fix what was
basically a debilitating injury that left me unable to throw anything with my dominant arm (Like eggs at
the wife) even opening a door at times would be excruciating pain, and sleep was often interrupted
from it. I was on oxycodone for the pain (it’s a hell of a drug) and I got an email from RSI with a LTI sale
for a Reliant (small cargo ship) for only $50, mind you I pay that much for a fancy tank in WOT couple a
times a year. Important thing to remember though since I was so hopped up on these pain pills I literally
did not recall buying this ship. I had to piece it together from fragments.
Fast forward to January 2016: I get another one of these emails from RSI, so I go hey I haven’t looked at
that game in forever I should probably go check it out. And check it out I did. And I quickly realized that
this game they had sold me on in January 2014 was not the game I was getting. And from the looks of
things I was not getting a game ever. I logged into my account to get the details of my purchase, noticed
I had a Reliant, figured had been given to me a stretch goal (I didn’t realize I bought this thing till I saw
the separate purchase and order number attached to it). So I get all this information together and I
asked for a refund. And I was promptly denied. I asked again, denied again. Pointed out to them that
they had not delivered a product which is when any “grace period” starts. Ray gets involved at this point
and tells me I’m out of luck since I agreed to the new TOS when I bought the Reliant. I check the dates.
And I am out of luck. Or am I?

Fast forward to June 2016: I request a refund once again from RSI. They say no. I say yes, the TOS
promised date has passed, give me back my money. They respond with silence.
This goes on several times. I finally say hell with this. I file a complaint with the FTC and the BBB. I
receive a response from RSI that I had complained about the wrong company and that I had agreed to
their TOS (The new one which I never did) but that they would refund me my money anyways.

Well I wait. Nothing. So I ask for my money again. Get the same answer, no. I ask what exactly is this
statute they are referring to and when does the fourteen day grace period start. No answer. I email
again. Point out that they claimed in the BBB response they would refund me. Told them I would wait
three days for a response then start proceeding. Finally I get a reply. “Are you 100% sure you want your
money back?” …. I respond, Yes, I am 100% sure. They ask for a PayPal account to give the money to.
And finally I am in the clear. $325.00 USD is back in my hands. July 2016. Worth. Every. Penny.



LTDR: Do not give up. File a complaint with the BBB and the FTC if you reside in the states.

PS: those google charges are the wife playing Candy Crush.
PPS: See AP, I told you I hadn't given up.

Tullius posted:

I'm sure MOMA will appear in a few days saying he's been really busy and what did he miss. Then will avoid every question about his thoughts on the last few days.

AP posted:

Daztek posted:

MoMA is staring at the airtight ToS he wrote and wondering how those meddling goons defeated it

quote:

A backer of the infamously expansive space shooter Star Citizen has argued for, and won, a sizeable refund on his $2550 pledge to the game on the grounds that “the product remains unfulfilled and no longer constitutes the product(s) I originally purchased.”

quote:

Where do you stand? Is this a victory for consumers against companies who hold millions of dollars? Or does it simply set the scene for an exodus of disenfranchised consumer-investors?

quote:

The game, which was originally due in November 2014, is still in Alpha. The road forward is murky.

quote:

the company points out that “takebacks” aren’t fair to the other backers

quote:

the delivery dates were simply estimates.

quote:

Update: Cloud Imperium Games has responded to our request for comment. "Any refunds with respect to Star Citizen are made on a discretionary basis," a representative told us via email. "There was nothing special about this situation. The fact that this particular party used a complaint form that is online and openly available, doesn’t make this any different."

quote:

Our Take
Yes, asking for a refund for a crowdfunding pledge is antithetical to the process. Backing a campaign is a risky endeavor.

However, CIG did include that clause in its terms of service, suggesting that it would deliver within the 18 months of the expected release date (November 2014). It’s hard to suggest that the original projected release was a mere estimate when you’re tying the ability to request a refund to that tentpole.

Star Citizen has experienced mission creep, has missed milestones, and is one of the biggest enigmas in gaming right now. I suspect with “Steamroller’s” victory here, we’re likely to see the crack in the dam widen. The controversy around this game isn't likely to calm soon.

AP posted:

Tank Boy Ken posted:

Yes, asking for a refund for a crowdfunding pledge is antithetical to the process. Backing a campaign is a risky endeavor.

Tank Boy Ken posted:

I suspect with “Steamroller’s” victory here, we’re likely to see the crack in the dam widen. The controversy around this game isn't likely to calm soon.

Tullius posted:

I'm sure MOMA will appear in a few days saying he's been really busy and what did he miss. Then will avoid every question about his thoughts on the last few days.

Justin Tyme posted:

dear cig/reddit lurkers

crowdfunding is not charity or donation

in what rational sense is "pledging" for star citizen not a preorder of digital goods with the promise that this order will be fulfilled. hopefully the failure of this loving poo poo farce will bring solid precedent for consumer protection laws governing crowdfunding

Jobbo_Fett posted:

Ortwin Frothingmouth

Tippis posted:

Also, note that the word “pledge” is probably the last one you'd want to use in this situation.

Legally, a pledge is the collateral you hand over to someone to secure a loan or promise of future delivery of service. It is a way of saying “I owe you; in the mean-time, have this.” Note the direction of this transaction: A pledges to B; B gives A a loan or similar future demand of repayment. By pledging, A owes something to B, not the other way around. If A defaults on their debt, the pledge is there so that B can sell it off and recuperate the cost of this broken promise.

If you go into a pawn shop and pawn (rather than outright sell) your guitar for $50, the guitar is the pledge — it's the thing that the pawn shop does not own (yet), but which they can sell off if you don't come back an repay the $50 (+fees) within the agreed-upon timeframe.

The backers are giving CIG money. If this is supposed to be a “pledging” exchange, then this makes CIG the pledgor, not the backers; it make the money given to CIG a loan, not a donation; and the problem is that CIG does not offer any security against this loan so in reality, there is no pledge — the transaction is void by default. The fact that they intend to pay back the loan with future services is all fine and good, but there is still no pledge because there is no change of ownership; there is no security or collateral.

Daztek posted:

MoMA is staring at the airtight ToS he wrote and wondering how those meddling goons defeated it

Yolomon Wayne posted:

If i would try to catch people with a bulletproof gently caress-them-over TOS, id have a lawyer check if its really as bulletproof as i think.

Phobophilia posted:

congratulations you lunatics your all famous

Daztek posted:

Ortwin was out sharpening his teeth so MoMA was like "IT COMPILES IS FULL OF poo poo, RELEASE IT"

Hamburger Test posted:

Has EuroGamer been posted yet?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-07-15-through-gritted-teeth-star-citizen-developer-gives-player-whopping-usd2500-refund