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He tries to have sex with her in the wagon shortly before he takes off for the eclipse. She says no and then easily gets out from underneath him because he's got no real ability to move or push back. I don't really read that scene as him trying to rape her, rather him trying to claim her because he hears that Guts wants to take her and he had given up on his dream of a nation to be with her because he couldnt have it anymore. Once that was taken from him, he escapes and tries to kill himself because he has nothing. So him getting his body back means he can take anything that he wants now. He can take Casca and have his way and she can't stop him anymore, no one can take what he wants from him at that point and him doing what he does is also a way to break Guts for taking his last resort away from him, even though Casca actually chose to stay and care for Griffith in the end. He's directly fulfilling an act that he'd failed to do prior to becoming Femto as well, which is also kind of him reassuring himself of his rebirth, having just gone from suicidal and disabled to superhuman. Like, it's important to see rape as something more than sex or violence, it's a power thing too. Him doing that establishes his power over Guts, Casca and proves to himself that he has power over himself again. It will certainly prove to be his undoing in the end, but its not something he did for the sake of it, it was all part of punishing Guts and proving himself to himself. It would possibly also play into the thing after he is reincarnated in the world where he goes to see Judeau and Guts to prove to himself that he no longer feels ties to Casca and Guts. Tl;Dr Griffith doing that makes plenty of sense in the frame of the narrative. He's a total poo poo Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Jul 11, 2016 |
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Jul 11, 2016 21:48
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Rickert underlined "recently" the point of Griffith always having been a shady motherfucker, he just used to be mildly more subtle about it and Guts, being himself rather amoral, didn't think much of Griffith telling him to do things like assassinate nobles and whatnot. We've been listening to Guts talk about the "Griffith we knew" and the like for a long time butas Rickert points out, Femto IS the Griffith they knew, just scaled way the gently caress up. As for Griffith giving up, that dream sequence he has where he's been reduced to life with Casca and Gut's kid would be a nightmare even if he weren't a power obsessed, sociopathic control freak with a superiority complex. Being as he is, in fact, that, hitting rock bottom at that juncture is hardly surprising.
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Jul 11, 2016 21:57
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It's OJ Simpson motivation
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Jul 11, 2016 22:11
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Ironically, if they'd never rescued Griffith he probably never would have been in enough despair to use the behelit. He was helpless, but he was captured and had hope that he could be rescued some day. But then he is rescued and it dawns on him that he can never achieve his dream now. Even among his friends he's a miserable wretch and only sees himself as a burden to them. Griffith's dream is to be an inspiring presence leading from the front, being confined to the back of a wagon while his friends fight for him without his leadership is his ultimate nightmare. They don't need him as a leader anymore. That's why I always found the part where he tries to commit suicide first so effective. His only choices were to die or become a monster and he did consider both.
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Jul 11, 2016 22:22
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skasion posted:There's nothing whatsoever in the way of serious critical reading of Berserk except what bored nerds can come up with, That's fine, I think criticism as a genre is getting past the point where it can only be interesting and relevant if it's published in a literary journal Thank you all for the thoughtful replies on the subject, I'll read the whole thread when I have time and see what people have said before. RE: Casca being raped, I seem to recall the egg-shaped apostle eating the demon baby that Guts/Casca/Griffith created together, and then that baby rapidly aged into an empty physical vessel Griffith could inhabit on not-Earth. Which would mean Griffith would also have a utilitarian purpose in demon-impregnating Casca. But as I'm typing it I think I must be wrong because (a) Griffith assumes they will be killed as part of the sacrifice, (b) I did not really understand anything that was going on with the egg-shaped apostle, and (c) I do not really understand what's going on in my life at any one moment
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Jul 11, 2016 22:38
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Crabtree posted:I'd say both the child scene and the fight and death of Wylad sets up the dream is the most important thing of all for Griffith and sort of make it understandable how he'd view them all as that expendable when they're about to give up on him. In Griffith's mind, post Wylad, the Band was already going to betray him first so there is nothing left but the offer of the Eclipse. A nice bit of causality and tragedy to tie up any loose ends Griffith could have. And once he becomes Femto, even his poo poo with Caska makes a sort of sense at by that point he's just above any reprehensible poo poo he could pull. Nothing matters but his dream, gently caress it all. See, this seems nuts to me. The band of the hawk was going to betray Griffith? All I remember is Guts saying he was going to leave, and the raiders saying they wanted to go with him. But Guts had already left, because of his conversation with Griffith where Griffith said that any true friend or equal of his would have their own ambition and not simply be a pawn in his own dream. So Guts left, because of what Griffith said. Griffith then getting depressed and deciding everybody left him because he told Guts to go be his own man doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I missed a page where Griffith overhears soldiers saying "gently caress Griffith, he's crippled now" but I seriously don't remember that at all. He was in the wagon and he overheard Casca and Guts talking about how Guts was going to leave again. Actually, now that I think about it, what happened was that Casca said she wanted to leave and do her own thing but felt duty-bound to protect Griffith and stay around as his caretaker. That made Griffith feel like a burden, and pushed him towards god-hand-hood. But the band of the hawk never deserts Griffith. tbp posted:the casca rape doesnt make sense to me from griffiths pov. like his ambition doesnt line up with "do some reprehensible poo poo for the sake of it" and even beyond that, the rest of the gods seem really "above it all". like because of their unnaturalness they dont specifically seem to exist to just really be mean, and griffith might have seen the hawks as pawns and everything but i dont think that goes so far as to say he wants to be terrible to them without it achieving something. so sacrificing makes sense, weirdly forcing guts to watch casca be raped doesnt But remember that Guts and Griffith are like both friends and rivals, Guts had already left to go become his own man. And Casca was previously Griffith's, she just completely loved him in every way since he rescued her life. She wanted him completely. She wanted nothing more than to serve him and be with him. But he went off with the Princess, and she got jealous. And then she kinda fell for Guts, and they had their whole thing together. Griffith was aware of Guts' and Casca's relationship. The Casca rape is partially because of that. Its like Griffith has to have everything, he has Casca, he has the Princess, but then Guts steals his Casca and so he has to take her back. With force. I think it fits the plot pretty well, although really its just an excuse for Guts' to be SUPER loving MAD the rest of the entire series. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jul 11, 2016 |
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Jul 11, 2016 22:39
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The entire Golden Age arc is just a reason for Guts to be super loving mad. It's a very good reason and Guts is very good at being super loving mad as a result.
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Jul 11, 2016 23:03
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Wylad was different because he showed that human suffering was innate to demons. The snake demon bargained with town's major and treated humans as entertainment. The worm demon wanted to protect his kingdom and himself. Zodd wanted war. But Wylad didn't care about anything, he was nihilistic. Demons naturally kill and rape humans. There was no higher value than inflicting suffering. Griffith's use of rape was purely about power. He was a demon, he didn't have any mortal desire. He had no use or gripe with Casca. He simply wanted to extort his force over Casca and thus over Guts. He proved a point that no matter what Guts (or Casca) does, there were still under Grifith's influence by hurting what they cared the most about. It was jealousy for sure. It would have been weird to have Griffith to rape Guts directly and would have made their relationship appear sexual in nature, despite the story trying to establish otherwise. skasion posted:There's nothing whatsoever in the way of serious critical reading of Berserk except what bored nerds can come up with, what reputable academic is going to play dice with his career over the deep meaning contained within Japanese ultra violence rape horse comics? For Miura to think up and draw Berserk, he isn't a regular person. But because he is outside of the norm, I think he capable of telling truth. There was an interview where he said that he reads the news and that helps think of plots for Berserk. And the exploitation of women is something that happens all over the world. It is intrinsic to war, so much so that people have created fairy tale representations of what happens to girls who stray to far from safety (little red riding hood, hansel and gretel). There is no way a writer like Miura could omit rape from the story if he wants to address women in society and the scope of human suffering. temple fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Jul 11, 2016 |
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Jul 11, 2016 23:16
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temple posted:
Tell me more about your women's studies degree and/or link your tumblr
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Jul 11, 2016 23:19
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Moonshine Rhyme posted:Tell me more about your women's studies degree and/or link your tumblr  You must think I'm some kind of monster?
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Jul 11, 2016 23:23
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Moonshine Rhyme posted:Tell me more about your women's studies degree and/or link your tumblr lmao that's your takeaway from temple's posting i loving wish
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Jul 11, 2016 23:28
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I mean I think that the evil of Apostles is well established by the snake Baron drinking the blood of a child impaled by his halberd, or literally everything that the Count does, but yeah no I think it'd be so much easier to get it if they also had penis tongues and had a go at Casca. As far as acknowledgement of rape in war goes, that scene in Vinland Saga where Thorfinn leaves that peasant girl to Askeladd's men does the job better than anything in Berserk simply because it doesn't revel in it. Griffith and Casca skates by because for the Eclipse all bets are off and that's where that story led to properly. Wyald doesn't have that, the trolls don't have that, Rape Horse doesn't have that, they're all just there for shock value. E: incidentally Wacky Old Man Daiba joining Team Rickert is rather jarring considering the poo poo that dude is party to
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Jul 11, 2016 23:58
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Rodyle posted:I mean I think that the evil of Apostles is well established by the snake Baron drinking the blood of a child impaled by his halberd, or literally everything that the Count does, but yeah no I think it'd be so much easier to get it if they also had penis tongues and had a go at Casca.
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Jul 12, 2016 00:08
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temple posted:Why should rape be depicted less and off screen but murder and war depicted frequently and graphically? 
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Jul 12, 2016 00:12
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I literally just told you guys to talk about something else. Time for a hiatus.
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Jul 12, 2016 00:14
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Welcome back, friends. Let's have less nerds arguing over the proper place of rape in literature this time around.
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Jul 14, 2016 10:01
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Guts is a cuck.
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Jul 14, 2016 10:28
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Interview on Crunchy yesterday said the OC in ep 1 was Miura, ep3 is all OC and kinda insinuated that was Miura too and conviction key art that was released hints at what the first 12 episodes contain, which may mean millennium is happening too. Don't have the link right now cos mobile posting
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Jul 14, 2016 10:34
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scientific fact: guts riding zodd was really cool
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Jul 14, 2016 12:49
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Am I only one who thinks that Guts in the Berserker armor, while retaining his senses, looks a little goofy and a little like Batman
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Jul 14, 2016 13:16
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Nah, I've seen that sentiment a bunch. I prefer being able to see his full face while fighting.
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Jul 14, 2016 13:18
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Pewdiepie posted:Guts is a cuck. lol
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Jul 14, 2016 14:49
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  Uncanny
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Jul 14, 2016 18:29
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This summer Nicholas Cage IS ... Guts
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Jul 14, 2016 18:36
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Bad Seafood posted:Time for a hiatus.  Second release for which I've been an active reader. So excited.
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Jul 14, 2016 23:23
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Well, all these fun discussions in the previous few pages got me thinking about doing an informative speech on Berserk for a public speaking class. Then I saw all the rape. That aside, it could have been fun to try.
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Jul 14, 2016 23:40
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Lecture on learned behavior in patriarchal dictatorships, and the societal outcomes of dictator betrayal. Or the dialectic issues raised by the dogmatic view taken by Corkus. Or the parallels between the religiosity of Farnese and... anyone. The effect of de facto adoption on children in high stress environments.  Puck and Puck, from Shakespeare to Miura.  Musculoskeletal stress from various hand cannons.  I mean there are tonnes of choices. PhantomOfTheCopier fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Jul 15, 2016 |
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Jul 15, 2016 00:03
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka-nXPpkNQk
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Jul 15, 2016 14:53
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He showed up. http://www.koeitecmoeurope.com/berserk/ Berserk Warriors seemingly brought forward in the west. Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Jul 15, 2016 |
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Jul 15, 2016 14:58
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Ganon looked better in Ocarina of Time than he did in this episode
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Jul 15, 2016 15:59
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 The flashbacks were just weird, nothing to worry about in the end. Pretty rough episode again, more 2D when it mattered (also when it didn't quite...), but not offensively bad.
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Jul 15, 2016 16:21
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Josuke Higashikata posted:He showed up. Hadn't seen this image before  Berserk Armor Guts and Grunbeld 
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Jul 15, 2016 16:26
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If the game gives me Berserker Armour Guts and the Skull Knight, I''ll buy two copies.
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Jul 15, 2016 16:41
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For a moment there I thought Episode 3 cut straight to the Kushan invasion.
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Jul 15, 2016 17:42
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Josuke Higashikata posted:Pretty rough episode again, more 2D when it mattered (also when it didn't quite...), but not offensively bad. I'm still confused about the production of this thing. They animated the entire section with Charlotte at the end in 2D, including all of the extras in the background, but will use CGI for stuff like all of the knights in the second episode? What? loving pick one or the other, it's jarring.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:27
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Mr. R Horse doing Mr. R Horse things was 2D animated as well, but at like 1/2 frame rate.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:28
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Josuke Higashikata posted:
This anime really is all over the place.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:51
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Bad Seafood posted:Might just be the lighting here but is Casca back to being dark-skinned? She's how she's usually portrayed, and this is the first time she's ever appeared in actual present day content. So my takeaway from it all is that when Guts is flashing back, and it's also the case in the OP, everything appears lighter, and that includes Casca. It might be some strange hamfisted way of making it appear like it's Guts remembering the good days because they're heavenly or whatever.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:54
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Whoever's making this show has no idea what they're doing with the pacing.
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Jul 15, 2016 18:55
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Josuke Higashikata posted:She's how she's usually portrayed, and this is the first time she's ever appeared in actual present day content. So my takeaway from it all is that when Guts is flashing back, and it's also the case in the OP, everything appears lighter, and that includes Casca. It might be some strange hamfisted way of making it appear like it's Guts remembering the good days because they're heavenly or whatever. possible, but she was also paler than guts in the flashback
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