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thespaceinvader posted:Am I crazy for wanting to try Delta/TB/D/Mk2 + Delta/Ion/D/Mk2 x2? Nah, even one TB is brutal, and combing Ion's with it for control/extra damage is a nice combo. But yeah it isn't as nigh invulnerable as x7s. Still you're a 6 hp 3 agi ship. It's not like you're an Xwing or something. Eimi fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Jul 15, 2016 |
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Jul 15, 2016 23:13
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I've contemplated replacing one of my TB/Ruthlessness Defenders with an Ion/Crack Shot Defender, but I love that Ruthlessness gimmick so much.
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Jul 15, 2016 23:43
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thespaceinvader posted:If it's the mouse doing this it's hosed forever, but I'd hope they'd have the sense to know how big esports type stuff is and not gently caress it up. We didn't need any special kind of permission or anything for Origins. Doesn't seem like there are any special rules for this either, since there are all sorts of pictures coming out.
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Jul 15, 2016 23:53
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 Photos of the TIE Striker and Krennic's Shuttle from Rogue One.
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Jul 16, 2016 00:04
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The Striker looks like it will definitely have crew. That shuttle is uglier than Kylo Ren's so I guess that's....impressive?
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Jul 16, 2016 00:10
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Striker is pretty. It really looks inspired by that unused concept art for the /sf which if I had any meaningful modelling skill or knowhow I would be trying to replicate right now.
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Jul 16, 2016 00:10
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Neato. Not sure if X Wing Miniatures needs another shuttle for the imperials besides the Lambda (and the TIE shuttle upgrade too I guess). I don't expect we'll see Kylo Ren's shuttle either for the same reason. I wonder what role the Striker would fill in the game.
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Jul 16, 2016 00:13
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I'm hoping for a fast ordnance carrier (like, Interceptor fast) with 2 attack, 3 agility, 3 hull, 0 shields, a good dial, and a slot each for torpedo/missile/bomb/crew.
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Jul 16, 2016 00:16
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Also, both of them are just way too loving big. Striker I could see being the a 2/3/4/0 or something like that - the punchy glass cannon swarm ship to the TIE fighter's evasive nerf bat.
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Jul 16, 2016 00:16
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Based on the description plaque saying it's primarily an atmospheric craft that is also spaceworthy, I wouldn't expect the dial to be very high speed. Maybe it will suck as much as the Scyk dial!
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Jul 16, 2016 00:25
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canyoneer posted:Based on the description plaque saying it's primarily an atmospheric craft that is also spaceworthy, I wouldn't expect the dial to be very high speed. Maybe it will suck as much as the Scyk dial! Atmospheric craft can be very high speed, and most ships we've seen in Star Wars are able to be used in both. The Imperial gimmick is supposed to be fast/cheap/expendable things and I would like more of them TIA.
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Jul 16, 2016 00:26
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What sort of design space is left for ships? Feels like they're going to run into a wall of "What does this ship do?" soon. I'm not a designer.
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Jul 16, 2016 02:01
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Ships with a primary and aux arc that are both on the sides of the ship.
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Jul 16, 2016 02:04
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Ships that move othagonally in 4 directions like chess rooks!
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Jul 16, 2016 02:06
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Tiny drone ships with a base that's only the width of the measuring rulers!
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Jul 16, 2016 02:07
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Ships that have a lance-type attack that only strike directly ahead. No arc, just a single beam, but it could have special rules or high damage to compensate.
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Jul 16, 2016 02:18
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Otis... do you need a hug? *sets phaser to stun*
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Jul 16, 2016 02:21
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More stuff like the aux forward arc on the YV, or ships with different arcs than 80 degrees? I don't know it is hard to have lots of fighter variations.
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Jul 16, 2016 02:25
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Admiral Joeslop posted:What sort of design space is left for ships? Feels like they're going to run into a wall of "What does this ship do?" soon. I'm not a designer. The z-axis.
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Jul 16, 2016 02:26
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An attack where the arc is between the nubs
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Jul 16, 2016 02:34
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How ordnance should have been handled from the beginning (with reduce points cost for the difficulty). Nera's ability could have been using the whole arc instead.  EDIT: No wait but for serious, between the nubs is the arc between which you can fire your ordnance without the thing it normally requires you to spend.
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Jul 16, 2016 02:41
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Strobe posted:How ordnance should have been handled from the beginning (with reduce points cost for the difficulty). Nera's ability could have been using the whole arc instead. Only if you have the option to attempt to shoot the ordnance like Poe did. 
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Jul 16, 2016 02:43
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Boarding parties 
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Jul 16, 2016 03:08
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canyoneer posted:Boarding parties It's actually a sort of interesting design space, but for it to make any sense at X-Wing scale it would have to be able to only target like a large based ship with at least 1 crew slot, which would so limiting as to make it a scenario-only thing.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:00
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Boarding parties is a STAW thing and should stay there. That being said, I think there's a lot that could be done to add some design space for ships, like having different kinds of attack dice and defense dice.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:06
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Panzeh posted:Boarding parties is a STAW thing and should stay there. Something that could probably have been done to make ordnance more attractive from the outset, with the benefit of hindsight, would have been to use special attack dice specifically for ordnance the way that Armada has three flavors of attack dice to represent different classes/ranges of weaponry. So when you're using primary weapons you roll your standard red dice with the standard distribution but when you use ordnance you roll a different color of dice that has a breakdown of, say, 2 crits, 3 hits, 2 focus, and 1 blank or something.
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Jul 16, 2016 05:51
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Kai Tave posted:Something that could probably have been done to make ordnance more attractive from the outset, with the benefit of hindsight, would have been to use special attack dice specifically for ordnance the way that Armada has three flavors of attack dice to represent different classes/ranges of weaponry. So when you're using primary weapons you roll your standard red dice with the standard distribution but when you use ordnance you roll a different color of dice that has a breakdown of, say, 2 crits, 3 hits, 2 focus, and 1 blank or something. That would be better if it wasn't possible to stack consistency measure on top of consistency measure. I'm sure Guidance Chips is the key to JMK5k but a maneuverable large ship with crew and an astro gave a lot of tools to work with to find that consistency and action efficiency. Being able to guarantee your results on a hard hitting attack is the problem, because then it pushes out ships that get shot at, so the consistency needs to be reduced, but with ordnance, without that consistency it doesn't get brought. It's a mess. Personally I'm not a fan of an alpha strike build in general, but I'd prefer Ordnance as more like...one shot interesting effects like Flechette Torps or Ion Torps, though of course the issue with those is that they aren't price effective compared to the cannons they are supposed to be alternatives to. I don't see a real way to fix things unless there's an Xwing 2.0 coming. Like change it so that you can recover spent ordnance and in general don't make them spend TL's just require. Eimi fucked around with this message at 06:16 on Jul 16, 2016 |
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Jul 16, 2016 06:11
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Eimi posted:That would be better if it wasn't possible to stack consistency measure on top of consistency measure. I'm sure Guidance Chips is the key to JMK5k but a maneuverable large ship with crew and an astro gave a lot of tools to work with to find that consistency and action efficiency. Being able to guarantee your results on a hard hitting attack is the problem, because then it pushes out ships that get shot at, so the consistency needs to be reduced, but with ordnance, without that consistency it doesn't get brought. It's a mess. Personally I'm not a fan of an alpha strike build in general, but I'd prefer Ordnance as more like...one shot interesting effects like Flechette Torps or Ion Torps, though of course the issue with those is that they aren't price effective compared to the cannons they are supposed to be alternatives to. I don't see a real way to fix things unless there's an Xwing 2.0 coming. Like change it so that you can recover spent ordnance and in general don't make them spend TL's just require. Well ideally if we were doing like an X-Wing 2.0 or something I'd be inclined to explore alternate avenues for making ordnance viable and useful without having to bring stuff like Guidance Chips into the mix.
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Jul 16, 2016 06:21
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Kai Tave posted:Well ideally if we were doing like an X-Wing 2.0 or something I'd be inclined to explore alternate avenues for making ordnance viable and useful without having to bring stuff like Guidance Chips into the mix. If I were doing x-wing 2.0 (and I wasn't eliminating the dice entirely because gently caress dice) I'd be looking at three different die types, the general one (the current red die), a high-accuracy low damage one (would have no crits and a bunch of double-hits which counted twice when comparing against evades but only once for damage) and a high-damage low-accuracy one (basically the inverse, more crits, but evades count twice against crits, or something). This would allow a lot more definition between guns, missiles and torpedoes - missiles were always supposed to be fast and hard to avoid, but relatively low damage, whereas torps were slow and ungainly and easy to outrun/dodge - and intended mostly for capital ship assaults - but if you got hit by one you were hosed. And obviously, a better planned set of timing points, and no new ones every wave. And a better planned system for turrets to be included, but to still have a strong incentive to shoot in arc - probably setting their base dice at x, and shooting out of arc at x-1.
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Jul 16, 2016 09:47
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thespaceinvader posted:If I were doing x-wing 2.0 (and I wasn't eliminating the dice entirely because gently caress dice) I'd be looking at three different die types, the general one (the current red die), a high-accuracy low damage one (would have no crits and a bunch of double-hits which counted twice when comparing against evades but only once for damage) and a high-damage low-accuracy one (basically the inverse, more crits, but evades count twice against crits, or something). This would allow a lot more definition between guns, missiles and torpedoes - missiles were always supposed to be fast and hard to avoid, but relatively low damage, whereas torps were slow and ungainly and easy to outrun/dodge - and intended mostly for capital ship assaults - but if you got hit by one you were hosed. My initial instinct is that these high-accuracy dice would always be the way to go because being able to guarantee more reliable hits on target is better at ensuring that ships die faster than a less accurate but potentially highly damaging hit. Even though crits can be very powerful I'd always take an attack that rolled three regular hits versus a roll of a hit and a crit, for example. You could make the argument that "low accuracy but potentially heavy hitting" was basically the state of X-Wing ordnance right up until Guidance Chips and it was awful.
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Jul 16, 2016 10:02
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Kai Tave posted:My initial instinct is that these high-accuracy dice would always be the way to go because being able to guarantee more reliable hits on target is better at ensuring that ships die faster than a less accurate but potentially highly damaging hit. Even though crits can be very powerful I'd always take an attack that rolled three regular hits versus a roll of a hit and a crit, for example. You could make the argument that "low accuracy but potentially heavy hitting" was basically the state of X-Wing ordnance right up until Guidance Chips and it was awful. The idea would be that the high-accuracy dice would probably mostly be used for missiles, and we'd have a lot more 'cancel dice and deal x effect' missiles, or for things like TLTs. Whereas yes, you wouldn't ever tag a Squint with a torpedo, but you'd gently caress up a YV trivially, let alone a Decimator or Ghost. Neither sort of dice would be commonly available. Until Chimps, Ordnance was mostly just 'low-accuracy' because it usually didn't get much modification, so it was bad at hitting. It would need careful balance, but it would generally. I'd also like to see a reduction in or even complete elimination of green dice. Not sure how to replace them, but it always bothers me how spiky they make the luck - you can have average red dice against spiky green dice on a low-HP list and have no damage dealt, or have the spikes go the other way and lose everything in the first engagement. E: 186th liveblog of the Invitational: http://www.186th.org/news/coruscant-invitational-2016 Still really irritated there's no livestream. Would REALLY like to see good players using the StarViper in particular. thespaceinvader fucked around with this message at 10:18 on Jul 16, 2016 |
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Jul 16, 2016 10:14
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thespaceinvader posted:If I were doing x-wing 2.0 (and I wasn't eliminating the dice entirely because gently caress dice) I'd be looking at three different die types, the general one (the current red die), a high-accuracy low damage one (would have no crits and a bunch of double-hits which counted twice when comparing against evades but only once for damage) and a high-damage low-accuracy one (basically the inverse, more crits, but evades count twice against crits, or something). This would allow a lot more definition between guns, missiles and torpedoes - missiles were always supposed to be fast and hard to avoid, but relatively low damage, whereas torps were slow and ungainly and easy to outrun/dodge - and intended mostly for capital ship assaults - but if you got hit by one you were hosed. Well, honestly I wouldn't even do it just for ordnance- it would be nice to have more differentiation in 2 attack dice ships. Right now there's basically three possible primary attack values and having different kinds of attack dice would give a lot more options in giving a ship a primary armament.
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Jul 16, 2016 12:13
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Panzeh posted:Well, honestly I wouldn't even do it just for ordnance- it would be nice to have more differentiation in 2 attack dice ships. Right now there's basically three possible primary attack values and having different kinds of attack dice would give a lot more options in giving a ship a primary armament. I'd envision it primarily for ordnance but yeah, no harm in using it for other things too, especially if the defensive part of the gamme could be made to properly balance it.
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Jul 16, 2016 12:27
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Ordinance should have been designed as "Roll X dice, if this attack hits cancel all results and deal Y hits/crits/ion/stress." Weapon accuracy is reflected by how many dice you throw and the amount of damage is consistent. Would have been a lot better than the method they chose and how many fixes it took to make it viable.
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Jul 16, 2016 14:26
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Kill_Discussion posted:Ordinance should have been designed as "Roll X dice, if this attack hits cancel all results and deal Y hits/crits/ion/stress." Weapon accuracy is reflected by how many dice you throw and the amount of damage is consistent. Would have been a lot better than the method they chose and how many fixes it took to make it viable. Yeah, I could see that too.
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Jul 16, 2016 14:43
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Some of this ordnance design space could also lead to ordnance being multiple use. X-wings carry something like 12 Proton Torpedoes in the books.
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Jul 16, 2016 14:50
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Kill_Discussion posted:Ordinance should have been designed as "Roll X dice, if this attack hits cancel all results and deal Y hits/crits/ion/stress." Weapon accuracy is reflected by how many dice you throw and the amount of damage is consistent. Would have been a lot better than the method they chose and how many fixes it took to make it viable. That's actually a really good idea. Lt. Blount becomes the new Wampa.
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Jul 16, 2016 14:50
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Kill_Discussion posted:Ordinance should have been designed as "Roll X dice, if this attack hits cancel all results and deal Y hits/crits/ion/stress." Weapon accuracy is reflected by how many dice you throw and the amount of damage is consistent. Would have been a lot better than the method they chose and how many fixes it took to make it viable. Yeah that's a much better way to balance it.
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Jul 16, 2016 15:43
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What're people's Starviper builds in this Invitational? Does anyone know?
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Jul 16, 2016 15:45
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Mostly Guri (2 black sun enforcer with AT) with Lone Wolf or Mindlink, and mostly Sensor Jammer (1 fcs).
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Jul 16, 2016 15:56
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