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ImpAtom posted:The general consensus being vocal dislike isn't really what I said though. He has as much personality as Crono. Not that I disagree with your overall point. CC has some memorable characters but many are memorable for just how bizarre they are. The simple fact most criticisms I've seen on here do center around "no one had a personality or anything distinctive about them except an accent" shows a lot of people don't remember the cast too well. (some secondary characters like Karsh, Glenn, Fargo, etc. have entire arcs about them. The "Dario" and "Demihuman"Subplot are the biggest stories in the game besides the main plot and receive a lot of focus) But overall, they are drowned out by the gallery of the strange and irrelevant like Mojo, Turnip, Funguy and whatever else. I still think Guile should have been Magus. I'd have loved that personally seeing as Magus was hands down my favorit echaracter in CT.
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Jul 16, 2016 03:09
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Noted blockbuster megaman legends 2.
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Jul 16, 2016 03:11
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You're one of those people who nodded in approval when Majin Vegeta knocked out his son and blew himself up in a futile attempt to destroy Majin Buu, aren't you.
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Jul 16, 2016 03:12
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NikkolasKing posted:He has as much personality as Crono. Crono, I think, benefits from the fact that he dies. It sounds silly but "Crono dies and you lose your protagonist and can even play the entire game without getting him back' really helps defined the character for a lot of people. He may not have a line of dialogue (outside of one ending) but that singular act really defines the character, especially in the SNES era where such a thing was completely shocking. I doubt anyone really likes Crono as a character somuch as Crono's role in the story. I'm pretty sure if anyone votes for Crono as their favorite character they're remembering how they felt the first time the dude stood up and got his rear end blasted by Lavos.
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Jul 16, 2016 03:13
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Crono's personality is told through his actions, and not just from sacrificing himself but even something like grabbing the pendant when Marle disappears on the Telepod and you start hearing that awesome-rear end music blaring up and you know Crono's ready to dive into the unknown with a block of wood to save some girl he met fifteen minutes ago because she liked how fast he could drink soda. Crono's a man of action, always the one pushing others into saving the world, at least until Marle has to take over. I think the whole silent protagonist thing gets a weird rap anyway, people claim you're a blank slate but that really only works in open-ended RPG's. In jRPGs and Zelda games it's more the hero is simply one of action, willing to dive in and get the job done with no fuss, with some variations of course depending on how the character emotes (which can more than make up for lack of dialogue, see the Mario & Luigi games for instance).
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Jul 16, 2016 03:28
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Schwartzcough posted:I dunno, seems like a lot of people in this forum still like Chrono Cross (myself included), and have since it came out. If you can get over the CT connections and the infodump pacing, the game is beautiful in both visuals and music, the battle system is good, it generally keeps a good pace and is easy to follow until the convoluted story dumps, and is generally fun (i.e. that thing that makes a good game). There are a lot of characters, but who cares? They're easy to ignore if you don't like them. I think it was mostly die-hard CT fans that very vocally didn't like it, but I don't think that was the general consensus. Yes, but ImpAtom doesn't like it, so who cares what you think?
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Jul 16, 2016 03:48
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The Unholy Ghost posted:Yes, but ImpAtom doesn't like it, so who cares what you think? I'm not sure why you think I don't like Chrono Cross. It has a lot of problems but if I didn't like RPGs with a lot of problems I wouldn't be posting in the Final Fantasy thread. I generally like most things. Even if I discuss their flaws a lot it's fairly rare for me to really really hate a game and the ones I do tend to be poo poo that is abhorrently awful, not merely flawed.Even the FF games I'm not fond of I'm mostly fine with. I'm critical of FF12 but not to the point I despise it or anything. I discuss flaws a lot because I don't think a flaw means a game sucks. And I think figuring out why something is flawed or how it might not be flawed to other people is interesting. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Jul 16, 2016 |
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Jul 16, 2016 03:57
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Mega64 posted:Crono's personality is told through his actions, and not just from sacrificing himself but even something like grabbing the pendant when Marle disappears on the Telepod and you start hearing that awesome-rear end music blaring up and you know Crono's ready to dive into the unknown with a block of wood to save some girl he met fifteen minutes ago because she liked how fast he could drink soda. Crono's a man of action, always the one pushing others into saving the world, at least until Marle has to take over. I like the silent protagonist thing when it's done well (and Crono is rightly held up as a sterling example). Or, like, Mario from basically any Mario RPG. His charades in SMRPG will never, ever not make me laugh. There are a surprising amount of silent protagonists who still have really strong identities just because of their actions and that's really great. Super Ninja Fish posted:The best thing to come from Chrono Cross is the hilarity when people try to make sense out of the dumbest storyline in games. Found this a few weeks back searching for something and it made me laugh. Wanna go down the rabbit hole? http://pastebin.com/JG2jhqSJ Like, the storyline is absolutely bonkers and even something like this, that really tries to make consistent sense of it, trips up and has to rely on speculation a lot. I still kind of love that kind of thing in JRPGs, though. I'd never call it good storytelling, but I do have a lot of affection for the absolute batshit plots that JRPGs often find themselves trying to tell. Harrow fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Jul 16, 2016 |
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Jul 16, 2016 04:12
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Gologle posted:Let's examine what other games came out in 2000 in America. Yes, Chrono Cross released in 99, but if I remember right, it was a very late year end release. Anyway, motherfucking Spyro, who was the poo poo, Megaman Legends 2, James Bond, Breath of Fire, Megaman X5 (ew), roughly 10 million racing games. Chrono Cross never stood a chance. Make a new Chrono game, but it's just a Chrono Cross kart racer using its massive cast of playable characters
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Jul 16, 2016 04:17
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The Unholy Ghost posted:Yes, but ImpAtom doesn't like it, so who cares what you think? Lol shut up
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Jul 16, 2016 04:17
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Hamsterlady posted:Make a new Chrono game, but it's just a Chrono Cross kart racer using its massive cast of playable characters Perfect. This is a far better idea than that dummy who suggested a racing game with that one off character nobody cares about enough to even remember his name.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:19
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people who don't like chrono cross can ffuck off imo
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Jul 16, 2016 04:41
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and final fantasy too
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Jul 16, 2016 04:43
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I've never played Chrono Chross but I've played Final Fantasy and it's good
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Jul 16, 2016 04:46
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https://youtu.be/g-s-VQBoUdc Motherfucker if you don't get goosebumps from the first few seconds
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Jul 16, 2016 04:52
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Calaveron posted:https://youtu.be/g-s-VQBoUdc i'm too busy being intensely angry about all the wrong poo poo on that box art marle using fire magic? smh
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Jul 16, 2016 04:54
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voltcatfish posted:i'm too busy being intensely angry about all the wrong poo poo on that box art That is actually from an alternate timeline. When Marle was space-killed by everything loving up time it caused a horrifying distortion of her identity, the cold and chill of death becoming part of her and in doing so it changed her Fire affinity to Water. If time hadn't screwed up she would have learned fire magic instead.
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Jul 16, 2016 05:01
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Jul 16, 2016 05:48
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See! Proof!
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Jul 16, 2016 05:52
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The impressive thing about Chrono Cross is that I can look up a video to rewatch one of the major boss battles, look at the party members being used in the fight, and have absolutely no idea who the gently caress two out of three of them are.
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Jul 16, 2016 06:01
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Augus posted:The impressive thing about Chrono Cross is that I can look up a video to rewatch one of the major boss battles, look at the party members being used in the fight, and have absolutely no idea who the gently caress two out of three of them are. Having not seen it in years (but I did beat it twice), I could probably identify the main character, the 2ndary girl who is with you from the beginning, (though I can't picture them in my head), and the ridiculous pink dog thing optional character. the rest of the cast is completely unmemorable, in no small part because a lot of them are optional side characters with almost no relevance to the story. In contrast, I played FF9 at around the same time and can remember most everybody - the redmage/dragoon was the coolest. Even FF8 which I loathe and never finished I can at least picture most of the characters. CC did have a fairly unique and interesting cast, it just failed to use them properly throughout the story I think. Characters mostly had one section of the story they featured in, then faded into the background.
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Jul 16, 2016 06:32
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They should have just had one character for each element color. That gives you Serge, Kid, Leena, Glenn, Guile, and uhhhhhhhh Norris? Yellows are all forgettable garbage.
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Jul 16, 2016 07:07
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i can't believe serge abandons his girlfriend to gently caress an australian girl instead
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Jul 16, 2016 07:11
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Fister Roboto posted:They should have just had one character for each element color. That gives you Serge, Kid, Leena, Glenn, Guile, and uhhhhhhhh Norris? Yellows are all forgettable garbage. I'd say if you had to pick a yellow and didn't want to swap you'd pick Viper who was a major character, in Radical Dreamers, and has time-plot stuff.
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Jul 16, 2016 07:17
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They're doing the triple tech Arc Impulse both in the cover and that screenshot (see how Frog is down on all fours after Chrono's just jumped off his back), and for whatever reason the animation for it flashes between red and blue magic effects in the game.
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Jul 16, 2016 07:19
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ImpAtom posted:I'd say if you had to pick a yellow and didn't want to swap you'd pick Viper who was a major character, in Radical Dreamers, and has time-plot stuff. How about we just make Greco a yellow, because a luchador priest is legitimately one of the best character concepts in any jrpg ever.
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Jul 16, 2016 07:21
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Shame on you if you didn't using Mojoy and Turnip in every fight.
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Jul 16, 2016 08:51
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The CC party should've been Serge, Korcha, Mel, Macha, Orcha, and Ziggy Stardust.
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Jul 16, 2016 08:56
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ImpAtom posted:It isn't one of those heavily loathed games Speak for yourself, bud. Chrono Cross is as pretty as it is dumb. I'd honestly rather play Mystic Quest.
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Jul 16, 2016 09:03
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:Speak for yourself, bud. Chrono Cross is as pretty as it is dumb. I'd honestly rather play Mystic Quest. Chrono Cross has its dislikers but when I say 'heavily loathed' I refer to something like The Third Birthday or Metroid Other M or whatever. A game where it's almost universal someone is going to go "gently caress THAT game" if you bring it up, and I think we can all say that whatever flaws CC had it wasn't The Third Birthday level.
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Jul 16, 2016 09:04
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ImpAtom posted:Crono, I think, benefits from the fact that he dies. rear end blasted by Lavos is Chuck Tingles new book
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Jul 16, 2016 11:55
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Chrono Cross could definitely benefit from having a tighter cast of characters but I would hate to lose Mojo or Greco because they don't really have a lot to do with the plot Edit: there's a sidequest in the game where you have to find all the bones of an undead clown skull named Skelly so you can put him back together and get him as a party member Edit2: 
Nihilarian fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Jul 16, 2016 |
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Jul 16, 2016 15:42
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If you had to gently caress with the cast of characters to make it a tighter experience, make it so that all the old characters are there, but when you recruit them they unlock more unique techs for the 6 or so characters you now play as or something instead of becoming a party member you never use.
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Jul 16, 2016 15:50
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Nihilarian posted:Chrono Cross could definitely benefit from having a tighter cast of characters but I would hate to lose Mojo or Greco because they don't really have a lot to do with the plot I never really felt all that old until I realized I was older than a skeleton. Ugh.
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Jul 16, 2016 16:01
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Leper Residue posted:I never really felt all that old until I realized I was older than a skeleton. Ugh. Anything above 25 in a JRPG and you're the grizzled old warrior. At 32 you might as well be dead, grandpa.
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Jul 16, 2016 16:10
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quote:If I hear an utterance of dissatisfaction, I ask, “Is that your mouth running or is that something we should revise?” Taken from http://www.one-and-zero.com/single-post/2016/07/16/20-page-4Gamer-FFXV-interview Stone cold Tabata-sama. Mods please change my avatar to that.
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Jul 16, 2016 16:12
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Leper Residue posted:I never really felt all that old until I realized I was older than a skeleton. Ugh.  Also, yeah, having the superfluous party members just give techs (or other rewards) would probably be the way to go.
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Jul 16, 2016 16:12
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Nihilarian posted:Chrono Cross could definitely benefit from having a tighter cast of characters but I would hate to lose Mojo or Greco because they don't really have a lot to do with the plot Chrono Cross could have benefited from being a better game entirely, ideally making it not a misnamed title from the SaGa franchise. I could go on about how the story reads like a writer sniffing their own farts so hard they suffer from anal prolapse, but that's been discussed and debated to death. I wanna talk battle systems. The entire Chrono Cross battle system was a massive step back from CT in terms of actual presentation, despite the obvious fancier visuals. Switching to a special battle arena when you ran up to a monster took away something that made CT unique among JRPGs for its time. The animations are mostly dull, and the sound design for most of the combat in the game is incredibly weak. There's absolutely nothing in CC that comes across as kinetic or exciting as seeing Crono or Ayla bust out a critical hit, as amusing as watching Frog summon screen-sized super frog, or as rad as Magus adjusting his gloves before dropping Dark Matter onto the enemies. The actual mechanics of the combat were more 'complex' than CT's by far, but it was also completely unfun to work with. Not 'difficult', not 'I didn't understand it', just totally unfun. I disliked the element field system, I disliked how techs were handled overall, especially with how that crossed over with the stamina system. Coupled with the fact that you have so many characters available by the end, I ended up just rolling with the same old cadre of characters for a good chunk of the game just to avoid worrying about particular 'set ups' with particular characters, with special emphasis on keeping Glenn and Serge around when that became possible just for X-Strike. CT's simple cast plays into its simple battle system. Their personalities are represented in their party roles, and that they interact with each other in combat so regularly with the Techs system really helps sell the idea that this is a group of friends and/or convenient allies who grow into KNOWING how everyone else works. It's a little detail, and it may actually be unintentional, but Magus having no dual techs and a mere two triple techs helps sell the idea that he's the outsider of the group, and that ties into his overall story arc neatly. The effect of all this, to me, is that CT's story, characters, and battle system all combine to form a cohesive package, one that is rightfully praised by many. Cross just doesn't have anything like this going for it. The glut of available characters hurts in the narrative because so few of them are actually meaningful to the plot, and I think it also hurts the battle system quite a bit. People are terribly interchangeable, many of their spells are interchangeable, and very few characters actually 'work' together like the party from CT did. All that ends up making me not give a poo poo about most of these people, and that makes me care a lot less about the overall plot, despite being tied to a game I actually enjoyed, despite the stakes being about as high as they could possibly get by the end.
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Jul 16, 2016 16:59
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Wrong thread
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Jul 16, 2016 17:11
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Nihilarian posted:Chrono Cross could definitely benefit from having a tighter cast of characters but I would hate to lose Mojo or Greco because they don't really have a lot to do with the plot I feel bad that this was one of the characters I forgot.
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Jul 16, 2016 17:13
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