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Mortabis posted:Didn't we hold up Apache sales for, oh, a week or something over it? I believe so.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:43
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wkarma posted:I think in all the AA chat we collectively forgot about Chapparal (on purpose?) I'm p sure I mentioned it sucked for a large part of its service life
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Jul 16, 2016 04:57
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I always thought it would suuuuck to be the shooter on the Chapparal on a hot day in that plexiglass dome thingie. Unless it has A/C, which I doubt but never know.
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Jul 16, 2016 05:17
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priznat posted:I always thought it would suuuuck to be the shooter on the Chapparal on a hot day in that plexiglass dome thingie. Unless it has A/C, which I doubt but never know. I met a retired Colonel who got stuck in one during lunch when everyone was gone. He legit thought he was going to die when the latch failed. It was summer in El Paso.
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Jul 16, 2016 05:43
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mlmp08 posted:I met a retired Colonel who got stuck in one during lunch when everyone was gone. He legit thought he was going to die when the latch failed. It was summer in El Paso. Oh man that sounds brutal. That design is obviously geared towards temperate climes like northern europe and even then only on mild days.
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Jul 16, 2016 05:55
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priznat posted:Oh man that sounds brutal. That design is obviously geared towards temperate climes like northern europe and even then only on mild days. It can be operated with the canopy open, I believe? Not sure. Regardless, they added AC to the next similar design. I don't have schematics handy, but I have to imagine they at least had fans in the Chaparral. mlmp08 fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Jul 16, 2016 |
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Jul 16, 2016 06:00
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mlmp08 posted:It can be operated with the canopy open, I believe? Not sure. Regardless, they added AC to the next similar design. I don't have schematics handy, but I have to imagine they at least had fans in the Chaparral. Do you just hold your breath when a missile launches with the canopy open?
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Jul 16, 2016 14:00
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chitoryu12 posted:Do you just hold your breath when a missile launches with the canopy open? Not sure about Chaparrals. For stingers, yes.
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Jul 16, 2016 14:46
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wkarma posted:I think in all the AA chat we collectively forgot about Chapparal (on purpose?) ifpc mk1
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Jul 16, 2016 15:28
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Seems like the Turkey coup has pretty much already curled up and died. RIP all those guys. Erdogan doesn't seem like the forgiving type. Also oh boy Turkey probably gets to lean towards even more authoritarian now!
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Jul 16, 2016 15:58
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He's calling for bringing back the death penalty. Some people are saying it's a false flag given how organized his response was. I'm...skeptical.
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Jul 16, 2016 16:25
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False flag is a bit much. Allowing a rumored shot show coup to foment is plausible but who knows?
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Jul 16, 2016 16:28
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mlmp08 posted:False flag is a bit much. Allowing a rumored shot show coup to foment is plausible but who knows? Probably not a false flag. Being used as an opportunity to wipe out political opposition regardless of involvement, absolutely!
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Jul 16, 2016 17:34
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mlmp08 posted:Yeah, the UK is running out of options. Alas the British Army officer class is about the only place you'll find more feckless toffs with no clue how the real world works than our current government.
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Jul 16, 2016 20:53
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So, I'd imagine this thread is the best to answer a question like this, now that Turkey tried the whole thing. When a whole military is not in the bag, but on parts of units are taking part in a coup, how does it actually go down, and how are sides picked out? Let's say a scenario of a military police company with some APCs guarding a depot of whatever near Ankara or Istanbul. The news of the rioting and coup take place, and lines of communication are mostly down or over-worked. Wouldn't it mean that in a situation like this, it literally comes down to the company officer and what sides he supports, now doesn't it? No one under his direct command is gonna say no, especially since there is no other influence or units around them, and his word ultimately is the deciding vote. And if so, wouldn't other military units also follow similiar paths of action? I could totally see how a platoon or a company level officer could just literally do what he wanted, and make his unit proceed on that action. I don't actually know much of anything about coups or how they work, and I started thinking back to my days in the Finnish Army. If poo poo would've gone down, you can loving guarantee that not a single conscript would've questionied anything if the professional drill sergeant or one of the officers would've tasked our platoon to "keep the order" at a bridge against "rioters", and that's kinda scary, since I can imagine junior leaders just choosing sides with the roll of a die. And if we would've been on that imaginary bridge, cops rolling up on us and starting to arrest us would've also been something where perhaps we've could've been talked into fighting, given that there is enough unrest and chaos in the area.
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Jul 16, 2016 21:00
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How do the planes avoid the cable hitting the landing gear? Does it ever the get entangled before hitting the hook?
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Jul 16, 2016 22:53
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Letmebefrank posted:How do the planes avoid the cable hitting the landing gear? Does it ever the get entangled before hitting the hook? I'm pretty sure they're landing with a slight nose-up attitude so the hook is lower than anything else.
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Jul 16, 2016 23:00
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Vahakyla posted:So, I'd imagine this thread is the best to answer a question like this, now that Turkey tried the whole thing. Lots of weighted dice rolls take place - do your conscripts get bogged down in the crowd and talked into surrendering, do you manage to capture enough media outlets / manage to put out enough confusing propaganda to keep people inside so your guys don't get bogged down, do you have troops that are unlikely to be talked into surrendering because of their ethnic or class background (conscripted country bumpkins vs. urban bourgeoisie or something) and what do you blow that particular load on, how many officers are your political appointees vs. someone else's, how many officers have your social background (technocrat, commie, islamist, liberal) vs. that of the government. Did you manage to make a good plan, do you have people who can properly execute it before the other side marshals their forces. Did you identify the crucial targets and weak points. Are you lucky. Do you manage to stun the opposition with fait accompli, decapitation, whatever - prez getting shot as step one in the coup etc. How much can you achieve with means that the other side can't counter - air strikes or whatever. Did you put enough of your pieces in place? Did you try to put too many pieces into place and gave someone time to squeal? Do you get enough momentum going that your guys don't jump ship? A putschist general has got to be 95% adrenalin by weight when giving the order to fuckin do it.
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Jul 16, 2016 23:18
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Letmebefrank posted:How do the planes avoid the cable hitting the landing gear? Does it ever the get entangled before hitting the hook? Cable is too low to snag the landing gear. Looks like worst case if a wheel hits the cable it'll just roll over it.
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Jul 16, 2016 23:18
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Mortabis posted:He's calling for bringing back the death penalty. Gülen, specifically, suggested this possibility.
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Jul 17, 2016 00:58
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mlmp08 posted:Also lol at LHA air defense: dudes standing on the deck with stingers. I guess that's how I played the Battlefield 1942 mod Desert Combat (and in fact if you replace LHA with CV and stinger with bazooka, how I played Battlefield 1942), are you saying this is literally standard doctrine? 
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Jul 17, 2016 03:50
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aphid_licker posted:Lots of weighted dice rolls take place - do your conscripts get bogged down in the crowd and talked into surrendering, do you manage to capture enough media outlets / manage to put out enough confusing propaganda to keep people inside so your guys don't get bogged down, do you have troops that are unlikely to be talked into surrendering because of their ethnic or class background (conscripted country bumpkins vs. urban bourgeoisie or something) and what do you blow that particular load on, how many officers are your political appointees vs. someone else's, how many officers have your social background (technocrat, commie, islamist, liberal) vs. that of the government. Did you manage to make a good plan, do you have people who can properly execute it before the other side marshals their forces. Did you identify the crucial targets and weak points. Are you lucky. Do you manage to stun the opposition with fait accompli, decapitation, whatever - prez getting shot as step one in the coup etc. How much can you achieve with means that the other side can't counter - air strikes or whatever. Did you put enough of your pieces in place? Did you try to put too many pieces into place and gave someone time to squeal? Do you get enough momentum going that your guys don't jump ship? I wonder if there are any tabletop games that are about organizing and executing a coup. It has all of the elements of a heist but you get to wear a swag uniform.
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Jul 17, 2016 06:35
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Letmebefrank posted:How do the planes avoid the cable hitting the landing gear? Does it ever the get entangled before hitting the hook? The gear rolls right over the cable. This was actually the cause of the problem the F-35 had with it's hook. LockMart basically took the F-18 hook shape and copied it, but the F-35 gear is much closer to the rear gear than a hornet or a rhino...the cable wasn't rebounding off the deck fast enough for the hook to catch it. They had to go to a sharper hook shoe that supposedly wears the cables faster to scoop the cable off the deck from a lower height.
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Jul 17, 2016 06:51
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chitoryu12 posted:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/turkey-low-flying-jets-and-gunfire-heard-in-ankara1/ 
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Jul 17, 2016 07:48
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Raenir Salazar posted:I wonder if there are any tabletop games that are about organizing and executing a coup. It has all of the elements of a heist but you get to wear a swag uniform.
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Jul 17, 2016 08:56
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Raenir Salazar posted:I wonder if there are any tabletop games that are about organizing and executing a coup. It has all of the elements of a heist but you get to wear a swag uniform. War on Terror, The Board Game comes with a balaclava of evil. There’s a spinner on the board called the Axis of Evil.
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Jul 17, 2016 09:44
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Platystemon posted:War on Terror, The Board Game comes with a balaclava of evil. The entire game revolves around getting drunk and laughing at whoever you can force to wear the EVIL balaclava, because the rest of it isn't nearly as fun 
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Jul 17, 2016 16:42
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Buttcoin purse posted:I guess that's how I played the Battlefield 1942 mod Desert Combat (and in fact if you replace LHA with CV and stinger with bazooka, how I played Battlefield 1942), are you saying this is literally standard doctrine? Killing enemy planes with the bazooka in Battlefield 1943 was always fun, they though they were lining up for an easy strafe kill until you popped them on the nose.
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Jul 17, 2016 20:40
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DesperateDan posted:Finally got a copy of "Chieftains" that wasn't incredibly overpriced and I really enjoyed it, it's reasonably well written, seems plausible and doesn't clancy-wank over hardware or nationalism much at all, and the ending made more sense than "Red Army". I thought it would have been much better without all the sub-plots. Is the paper version full of errors like the Kindle version, which seems to have been taken from an unfinished manuscript?
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Jul 17, 2016 20:44
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Betting the Kindle version is just a scan of the print edition with none of the OCR errors fixed.
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Jul 18, 2016 00:46
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Sperglord Actual posted:Betting the Kindle version is just a scan of the print edition with none of the OCR errors fixed.
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Jul 18, 2016 02:03
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welp
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Jul 18, 2016 02:25
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Even Kindle stuff from actual publishers has some glaring OCR errors; I can't remember if it's The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors or Symonds' The Battle of Midway, but one of them has errors in like 1/3 of the names of Japanese ships, and it's clearly because they're italicized. Like on the same page, it'll mention the carrier Hiryu and a few paragraphs down apparently the IJNS Hmyu has sprung out of the sea.
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Jul 18, 2016 02:36
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OCR errors are insufferable. You want to charge me $15 for this book, but you can't even be bothered to have an intern give it a once-over?
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Jul 18, 2016 02:39
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Platystemon posted:OCR errors are insufferable. You want to charge me $15 for this book, but you can't even be bothered to have an intern give it a once-over? I feel like a lot of Kindle books tend to get a lot more error-prone t0wards the end of the book, like the intem started orf stromg but eventvally stopprd paylng attentiom. You'd think they'd run it through a basic spell-check, though.
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Jul 18, 2016 03:00
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hogmartin posted:Even Kindle stuff from actual publishers has some glaring OCR errors; I can't remember if it's The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors or Symonds' The Battle of Midway, but one of them has errors in like 1/3 of the names of Japanese ships, and it's clearly because they're italicized. Like on the same page, it'll mention the carrier Hiryu and a few paragraphs down apparently the IJNS Hmyu has sprung out of the sea. Shattered Sword is like this, unfortunately. It all comes down to how lazy the publisher wants to be when doing the OCR work and the format conversion.
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Jul 18, 2016 03:24
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inkjet_lakes posted:I thought it would have been much better without all the sub-plots. Is the paper version full of errors like the Kindle version, which seems to have been taken from an unfinished manuscript? I seem to have a first print paperback and in terms of spelling/grammatical errors I didn't notice many glaring ones at all- I'm also gonna go with the "lazy OCR checking". I guess he could have done with maybe killing off a few of the plots earlier, but compared with poo poo like clancy's "bear and the dragon" where he will just drop plot points entirely without further mention rather than resolve them- the bar for poo poo like that is pretty low for me on speculative military fiction, especially when it's a book I can easily read on a lazy work afternoon rather than an accomplished doorstopper of a book. If you really want to torture yourself, find a copy of "the third world war: a terrifying novel of global conflict" because it somehow managed to be more stereotyped and cliche than the best of John Ringo, while not actually seeming to go anywhere for hundreds of loving pages of moustache twirling evil muslims/korean supervillains vs cardboard cut-out national stereotype ubermensch. Somehow it has good reviews, no loving idea how, because by the end I was hoping for a real-life apocalypse to save me. DesperateDan fucked around with this message at 10:37 on Jul 18, 2016 |
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Jul 18, 2016 10:35
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inkjet_lakes posted:I thought it would have been much better without all the sub-plots. Is the paper version full of errors like the Kindle version, which seems to have been taken from an unfinished manuscript? Either take them out or do them properly. As I said when we were discussing it in the Milhist thread recently. The book read to me like the Editor decided to trim a third of the book. The Generals viewpoint and especially the SAS stay behind team plot looked like they were going somewhere but then are never mentioned again.
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Jul 18, 2016 11:04
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IRRC, the SAS subplot is dropped because the PoV character gets stabbed in the heart by another SAS soldier by accident and dies. Kinda hard to keep going after that vv
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Jul 18, 2016 12:52
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Xerxes17 posted:IRRC, the SAS subplot is dropped because the PoV character gets stabbed in the heart by another SAS soldier by accident and dies. Kinda hard to keep going after that v That's the bit that seemed added in afterwards. At a guess... maybe the raid on the soviet HQ the behind the lines team was going for was meant to go ahead and succeed and hence bring about a crisis that leads to the end, but it didn't read right or whatever and got canned.
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Jul 18, 2016 13:25
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