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Vargs posted:Best change they could make to this game is adding a "Too Many Flankers" tooltip on character select imo. Toss Genji/Tracer/Reaper/Pharah in there and have it show up when you reach 3 of em. Hell, I'd prefer it if the game started complaining about too many flankers when you have a mere 2 so that people won't go second flanker unless they're sure it's a good idea, but that may be pushing it. Reaper isn't even really a flanker. I mean he can but he's just as comfortable in the thick of things blasting people apart
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Jul 17, 2016 04:01
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*me voice* Urhhurhghuthag Pharah rughruhji genji "What" Then my translator pops up "He killed Pharah and then was killed by Genji"
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Jul 17, 2016 04:02
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I've done this way too many times: *me voice* UHHHH WATCH OUT FOR UH WHAT'S HIS/HER NAME UH WHOSITS WATCHOUT;HASKHDF;LK *everyone is killed by like Reaper or Phara or some poo poo*
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Jul 17, 2016 04:05
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I feel like there might be some benefit into resorting the categories into "pushers," "flankers," "spoilers," "snipers," and "healers."
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Jul 17, 2016 04:17
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Rand Brittain posted:I feel like there might be some benefit into resorting the categories into "pushers," "flankers," "spoilers," "snipers," and "healers." On the other hand, there's also a possibility that deliberately enforcing a meta rather than letting the community come to its own conclusions was a mistake to begin with. People would probably cotton to the necessity of a healer without the flashing "NO HEALERS" sign, but they'll never come around to "hey maybe we should run two!" now that the sign shows up and then disappears as soon as you have one. And if they made it suggest two, what if a future patch makes it more optimal to run a bunch of self-healing heroes some day? And so on.
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Jul 17, 2016 04:19
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:On the other hand, there's also a possibility that deliberately enforcing a meta rather than letting the community come to its own conclusions was a mistake to begin with. Yeah, I think it's fair to say that the signs kind of mentally enforce a meta for people. I think it's a good idea on the surface but honestly I think convinced people they NEED a sniper or that support needs are filled by Symmetra kind of does more harm than good in the long run.
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Jul 17, 2016 04:21
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ImpAtom posted:Yeah, I think it's fair to say that the signs kind of mentally enforce a meta for people. I think it's a good idea on the surface but honestly I think convinced people they NEED a sniper or that support needs are filled by Symmetra kind of does more harm than good in the long run. This is only the fault of those two poorly conceived categories. There should not be a tooltip telling you that you need a sniper or a builder, and Symmetra should not be lumped in with Mercy/Lucio/Zen/Ana.
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Jul 17, 2016 04:28
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How is Symmetra not a defence hero?
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Jul 17, 2016 04:48
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Waci posted:How is Symmetra not a defence hero? Because it would've looked awkward releasing with only 3 Supports.
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Jul 17, 2016 04:52
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Oh hey wow just noticed I'm on the first page of watcher.gg comp game damage leaderboard. That's pretty cool. Number 81.
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Jul 17, 2016 04:59
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A walrus can't play video games! 
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Jul 17, 2016 05:02
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The brawl is decent, at least it gives everyone an excuse to not switch heroes when they are getting their rear end whupped.
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Jul 17, 2016 05:05
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MUSCULAR BEAVER posted:A walrus can't play video games! Then how do you play
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Jul 17, 2016 05:11
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Macaluso posted:Then how do you play I just play low skill characters like junkrat - hold down left mouse doesn't even matter where my flippers aim because the game just feeds me kills
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Jul 17, 2016 05:24
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MUSCULAR BEAVER posted:I just play low skill characters like junkrat - hold down left mouse doesn't even matter where my flippers aim because the game just feeds me kills Hell yeah Junkrat 
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Jul 17, 2016 05:28
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Waci posted:How is Symmetra not a defence hero? Because Support is not the same thing as Healer.
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Jul 17, 2016 05:35
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Proposition Joe posted:Because Support is not the same thing as Healer. Why isn't Torb support.
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Jul 17, 2016 05:41
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If you expand "support" to mean "does things that are useful to the team" then technically this is a game with 22 support heroes.
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Jul 17, 2016 05:45
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Supercar Gautier posted:If you expand "support" to mean "does things that are useful to the team" then technically this is a game with 22 support heroes. You mean 20. Have to remember that Hanzo and Widowmaker exist.
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Jul 17, 2016 05:48
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They should change hanzo to be more like ana, weak damage healing arrows
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Jul 17, 2016 05:51
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Proposition Joe posted:Because Support is not the same thing as Healer. Yeah, but now she's one of five supports with no built-in method of raising friendly hitpoints, and it's a fair point to wonder why she counts as Support (makes turrets, gives out shields) while Torbjorn (makes turrets, gives out armor) counts as Defense. The long and the short of it is that all the classifications are ultimately arbitrary and Blizzard can put whoever they want wherever they want...Widowmaker is according to them a Defense hero when she works very well on the attack, same goes for Junkrat...but if they don't wind up adding more non-healing supports then Symmetra's classification is going to seem increasingly arbitrary for no clear reason.
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Jul 17, 2016 05:51
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Internet Kraken posted:You mean 20. Have to remember that Hanzo and Widowmaker exist. I try not to
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Jul 17, 2016 05:53
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Tweet Me Balls posted:Why isn't Torb support. Torb should be offense. That little bastard does Reaper levels of damage
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Jul 17, 2016 05:59
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I can sort of see the argument for Symmetra being a Support waaay back when she was put in the game, when the only other Supports were Zenyatta and Mercy, and her shields gave 50 extra HP instead of 25, and maps only had one spawn point for Attack and one spawn point for Defense so that teleporter was dang crucial for getting your team to keep on the pressure on both Attack and Defense. Now that spawn points move up as Attack captures points, her teleporter is crucial on Defense but not very useful on Attack, where Lucio's speed boost is clearly better. Now that we have two more Supports who both heal and she does not, she is left feeling even more weirdly classed than before. Where she is now, she is just a Defense hero - pretty good when you're on Defense, can work on Offense sometimes, but is definitely not a Support. I really hope they re-classify her at some point because it'd make the NO SUPPORTS message actually work properly. Now that we have four of them, it's way less of a choice problem than it used to be. Also, like others have said, the No Snipers/No Builders tags feel so worthless. They don't help your Defense any more than any other Defense hero will, especially since everyone with those tags is already a Defense hero (except I guess Ana now). I'd rather have you stay on Junkrat than switch to Hanzo because there's a No Snipers tag flashing, buddy. I've seen that happen more than once and it makes me sad every time. Or if they do keep those tags, they should count Bastion as both a Sniper and a Builder, because his lack of damage falloff makes him basically function exactly the same as Builder/Sniper zoning tools are supposed to anyway. gnome7 fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Jul 17, 2016 |
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Jul 17, 2016 06:00
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gnome7 posted:and maps only had one spawn point for Attack and one spawn point for Defense Was that really how it was at one point in the beta?  Holy moly. Surely THAT didn't last very long
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Jul 17, 2016 06:02
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Being killed by a Reaper named XRezurrected is kind of awful.
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Jul 17, 2016 06:18
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What do you do for the gas station defense on route 66? Just set up shop there to hold the corner and two tunnels? Saw people ask if we were doing it a few times but the team ignored it and ran up to the train cars.
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Jul 17, 2016 07:20
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I've never heard of an actual defensive setup before. Every group I've ever been in fights at the traincars. Maybe a bunch of people saw a pro team do something recently and want to imitate that, I dunno.
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Jul 17, 2016 07:26
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Verranicus posted:I've never heard of an actual defensive setup before. Every group I've ever been in fights at the traincars. Maybe a bunch of people saw a pro team do something recently and want to imitate that, I dunno. I feel like I'm old and out of touch with this whole twitch streaming lp following era of gamers. watching nfl isn't going to make someone think they're an awesome football player but apparently there's a lot of people who just saw some twitch match pulling off some strat poo poo that they must think This is the Way We Should Do It guys, total know what I'm talking about lets setup shop in this hallway nothing can go wrong!!
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Jul 17, 2016 07:32
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Haha yeah these people who want to try out cool poo poo they see... MAxIMUM fuckheads ...
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Jul 17, 2016 07:41
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Brannock posted:Haha yeah these people who want to try out cool poo poo they see... MAxIMUM fuckheads ... It's more that they see what seems like an iron-clad utter crush of a defense/attack put together by a team with hours of practice together and think "yes, I can do this with five random people".
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Jul 17, 2016 07:43
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Brannock posted:Haha yeah these people who want to try out cool poo poo they see... MAxIMUM fuckheads ... You know that isn't what we were saying at all but thanks for the yucks anyway.
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Jul 17, 2016 07:47
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That. It's fun to watch tournies with best in class people doing poo poo like 5 dvas or setting up first pt of Gibraltar but that poo poo is never going to work and I've rarely had some genius shot caller who watched one too many streams strat work out well Trust me guys let's set up right here infront of Gibraltar pt gate I saw it work there's nothing that can go wrong!  *gets steamrolled giving them a free uncontested minute*
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Jul 17, 2016 07:48
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gnome7 posted:Or if they do keep those tags, they should count Bastion as both a Sniper and a Builder, because his lack of damage falloff makes him basically function exactly the same as Builder/Sniper zoning tools are supposed to anyway.
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Jul 17, 2016 08:00
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I've only actually lost one Gibraltar sudden death when defending behind/on top of the archway while basically giving up the first frontal push, but I also incessantly chatter in voice comms with my teammates (whether they're random pubs or not) to coordinate what we're doing. The only one I've lost was with Seagull, and literally no one on the team was talking except him once muttering "Lets go" to pull off a drop strat without ever telling anyone else on the team that we were going to be performing it. I was the only person that followed him off the archway and into the enemy team so we just got crushed. We almost recuperated, but his earth shatter that was going to stun the entire enemy team never landed due to him flying into the upper atmosphere from a randomly tossed concussion mine. Most of the ~pro mlg strats~ are about risk mitigation, and one of the quickest ways to mitigate risk is to take the fight as far away from their spawn as possible. I'd say that the second best is to get a vertical advantage, and third best is getting a choke point that gets everyone on the enemy team smushed together. All those first point defense strats that you see try to get as many checks in the box as possible for those. If a team stomps you when you have all of those advantages, they were probably going to stomp you regardless of if you were going to stage a forward defensive strat or try to replicate ~that thing I saw on gosu gamers last week~. E: With the Route 66 defense you stack up the entire team on the frontmost corner of the gas station, except for a flanker maybe at the entrance to/inside of the top tunnel passageway. When the enemy team starts rounding the corner everyone lights up the enemy Reinhardt shield to damage race with the enemy team. If you break their shield first then you use what time you have on your shield to fire at them uncontested. They'll either continue to push the cart, which is good, or they'll back off around the corner and wait for their Reinhardt to recharge, which is buying you time and is also good. If your shield breaks first the team cowers behind the gas station sign and wait to 5v1 any flankers that decide they're going to dive the gas station roof while you're all sitting there. When the cart is beneath the station, and if you manage to pick off one of the attackers, your entire team jumps down at once and has to focus down any targets of opportunity. If they're all dead and regroup, your team has to use that time to get back on top of the gas station and reset the fight to repeat with the possibility that they'll come through the side tunnel. If they start trickling in to reinforce one at a time you just meat grind them until they lose. Commoners fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Jul 17, 2016 |
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Jul 17, 2016 08:08
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I think they should add a hexagon power rating thing that builds up for your whole team. Something like: But with different axes. E: Hm, long range, short range, flanking (mobility?), defense, healing, uh... utility? NmareBfly fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Jul 17, 2016 |
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Jul 17, 2016 08:12
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Man I wish I could play Tracer half as good as Twiq and poo poo. When they play they loving melt everyone but when I play it feels like I am doing 1/10 the damage even though I am hitting most of the clip. 
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Jul 17, 2016 08:47
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You can defend at the gas station where you have elevation and chokes and people can keep reasonable proximity to each other or you can defend at the train cars and let the lovely space split your team and let Pharah and Tracer pick you off one by one. There's not some crazy gimmick to it or anything. You just choose to cede the first half of that segment with only token resistance rather than get wiped and cede the second part that's easier to hold.
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Jul 17, 2016 08:48
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Get in close with Tracer and aim at like their collarbones. Her damage can be all over the place depending on if your bullet spread feels like giving you extra headshots or not as well
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Jul 17, 2016 08:58
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My team so infrequently picks both a tank and support that I end up picking one of them. Thankfully I find most of the tanks and Lucio really fun (Lucio becomes insane if you bind jump to the mouse wheel - you basically double jump on command), but now when I end up in matches where we need say, an offense hero, I'm usually totally lost because I get so little practice on them. On most of the offense heroes practice makes a huge difference - learning shortcuts and how to quickly aim with tracer, teleport spots on reaper, aiming rockets and using E as a movement boost on pharah, literally everything about Genji. On top of that you use different routes for these heroes than the rest of your team will be using. So I end up only picking Soldier 76 cuz he plays like an FPS and he can at least heal :/ I'm terrible at playing anything that can be counted as a "flanker"
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Jul 17, 2016 09:10
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