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Torb's turret does something like 48 DPS which is insanely low in a game where Lucio's gun can be said to be kind of crappy shooting something like 64 DPS. It does less damage than Winston's Tesla cannon, a weapon explicitly meant to not be super punchy but more of a harassment cone-of-effect thing. Pretty much the only thing the turret has going for it is responsiveness and accuracy because it can easily be peek-fired into nothing by like half the characters in the game played even semi-competently, and if it had a time-delayed target acquisition it would be even easier to render ineffective than it already can be. As many jokes as there are surrounding it, good Torb players aren't actually just jerking off in a corner the whole time unless the team they're playing against is kind of on the bad side, they're out there using their gun to good effect and tossing armor packs all over while their turret covers some other part of the map. A lot of people arguing that Torb's turret needs nerfs seem to be coming at it from the perspective of "well TF2 turrets had lock on time and it was fine" but TF2 sentries also did something like 130 DPS in a game where the beefiest characters had 300 hitpoints, so if they had perfect responsiveness it would get pretty ludicrous. Even gimmick Torb stacking comps aren't really that difficult to counteract. Ultimately teams of random folks falling apart against 3+ Torbjorns on PC is more of an indictment of disorganization and lack of teamwork than Torb being some unstoppable menace.
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Jul 18, 2016 02:42
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That's what makes it annoying. You can't rely on your team mates to do anything effectively so you are gonna have to swap and take it out before they feed him a molten core. It is so nice for zarya charge building though so you can carry them with that instead of whatever plan you had to carry them before.
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Jul 18, 2016 02:50
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What's really insane are the people claiming they preferred fighting TF2 turrets to Torb's turret. I can only assume they played TF2 so long ago they've forgotten what it was like.
Sindai fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Jul 18, 2016 |
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Jul 18, 2016 02:52
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Its been said before, but Torbs turret is really only meant to be a distraction. The only one it can really threaten is Tracer. Ideally, you'd set it up so that it shoots the enemy in the back while you shoot them in the front to maximix disorientation. A lot of people treat them like Engies sentries when theyre more like minisentries.
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Jul 18, 2016 02:52
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It makes me mad when people ask for the console turret lock on delay to be added to the PC version.
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Jul 18, 2016 03:09
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flashman posted:That's what makes it annoying. You can't rely on your team mates to do anything effectively so you are gonna have to swap and take it out before they feed him a molten core. It is so nice for zarya charge building though so you can carry them with that instead of whatever plan you had to carry them before. I mean fundamentally this is going to be an issue in any multiplayer game where you play with strangers. Torb isn't the only hero that can poo poo on a disorganized group if they don't know what they're doing.
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Jul 18, 2016 03:11
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vulturesrow posted:Wut? Was discussed a few pages ago. Some guy made it to rank 80 just playing Torbjorn because the rank point algorithm cares about raw numbers and nobody puts out useless no-context raw numbers like Torbjorn. So even though his win rate is Reddit is mistaking this for "wow offensive Torbjorn must be really good." Nehru the Damaja fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Jul 18, 2016 |
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Jul 18, 2016 03:17
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Torb really feels like the kind of hero that only works well when you're already winning. If you're in an evenly matched game, he's just going to have his turret blown up instantly, over and over again, and then run around getting farmed by everyone all the time forever.
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Jul 18, 2016 03:24
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Gonkish posted:Torb really feels like the kind of hero that only works well when you're already winning. If you're in an evenly matched game, he's just going to have his turret blown up instantly, over and over again, and then run around getting farmed by everyone all the time forever. Yeah as an attacker, he's the definition of "winmore." I do think he's on to something about molten core on the attack though. Its chief counterplay is running away and if you're taking a capture point that's not nearly as much an option. From what I saw it looked really strong on two-point capture maps but since you have to win more than two fights in the other game modes, he's not as impressive on koth and payload.
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Jul 18, 2016 03:27
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Okay, people advised me to kill the turrets as Zarya with the grenades instead of using the beam, and this turned out to be 100% correct. What am I supposed to do as Zenyatta, though, if I don't have time and safety to play charging peek-a-boo?
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Jul 18, 2016 03:37
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Rand Brittain posted:Okay, people advised me to kill the turrets as Zarya with the grenades instead of using the beam, and this turned out to be 100% correct. What am I supposed to do as Zenyatta, though, if I don't have time and safety to play charging peek-a-boo? Left click at the turret while literally any team mate is in front of you with a Harmony orb on. Zen will kill a level 2 turret in like 4 seconds. While that's enough time for the turret to also kill/almost kill Zenyatta by itself, an ally with a Harmony orb is almost immune to turret damage, they roughly cancel each other out.
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Jul 18, 2016 03:41
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Zarya talk: A few days ago there was a weird match we had when there was 5 Zaryas and a Lucio playing against us. Me and Roadhog did work on them and I crowned myself Queen of the Zaryas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jc8P_a2lTg If you've got photosensitive epilepsy I'd probably advise not watching this video.
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Jul 18, 2016 03:45
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Nehru the Damaja posted:Was discussed a few pages ago. Some guy made it to rank 80 just playing Torbjorn because the rank point algorithm cares about raw numbers and nobody puts out useless no-context raw numbers like Torbjorn. So even though his win rate is Reddit is also absolutely full of people pissed about how good Torb's turrets are based on a gif of a Pharah with all of 4 hitpoints being sniped by one, therefore they need tracking delay and blindspots and spinup. I get that slagging on Reddit is pretty bandwagony but dang it is just like a constant refrain over there of "[UNDERPERFORMING HERO] needs to be nerfed!"
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Jul 18, 2016 03:52
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So when does the update come out on live servers?
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Jul 18, 2016 04:04
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icantfindaname posted:So when does the update come out on live servers? They're still doing some testing. I'd guess the 26th offhandedly, but it could be as soon as this Tuesday if they think everything's ready to go.
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Jul 18, 2016 04:06
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icantfindaname posted:So when does the update come out on live servers? ANA DAY NOW 
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Jul 18, 2016 04:07
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Drop into a quick play game, everyone is screaming about Lucio and everyone else on my team is Lucio. Most of the people yelling about it are on the enemy team, so I assume this is supposed to be an all Lucio game. So I pick Mei.  Also I'd like to note that even though we lost, my team never swapped off of our initial choices of mei and 5 lucios while the enemy team defending swapped to a bastion, s76, and another mei, all while calling me an rear end in a top hat and the fun police and demanding everyone report me.
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Jul 18, 2016 04:09
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icantfindaname posted:So when does the update come out on live servers? We don't know yet. Almost certainly not this week (at least, Tuesday this week), probably next week, maybe the week after at the latest.
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Jul 18, 2016 04:10
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A big WoW patch is dropping on Tuesday, which I suspect makes an Overwatch patch less likely.
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Jul 18, 2016 04:19
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Probably not this Tuesday as they're dropping the legion prepatch and they don't typically update content on multiple games on the same day.
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Jul 18, 2016 04:20
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Kai Tave posted:Reddit is also absolutely full of people pissed about how good Torb's turrets are based on a gif of a Pharah with all of 4 hitpoints being sniped by one, therefore they need tracking delay and blindspots and spinup. I get that slagging on Reddit is pretty bandwagony but dang it is just like a constant refrain over there of "[UNDERPERFORMING HERO] needs to be nerfed!" Give torbjorn's turrets all of these things. Not because he needs nerfed but because turret heroes are garbage and we should stop encouraging people to lean on these crutches
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Jul 18, 2016 04:26
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The Overwatch devs were also saying they wanted some more testing after they made the last set of changes on the PTR.
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Jul 18, 2016 04:26
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So, earlier in the thread I asked for some Reinhardt advise and been playing him more lately and I think he's starting to click for me. Once you learn how to aim your flamestrike, it makes a great opener for another Rein, or for convincing squishier characters to go away. Hammering is very powerful, but risky since it leaves you open to getting focused down. I need to work on aiming my charge, but I had some good plays tonight where I managed to snag their Mercy.
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Jul 18, 2016 04:28
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Canemacar posted:So, earlier in the thread I asked for some Reinhardt advise and been playing him more lately and I think he's starting to click for me. Once you learn how to aim your flamestrike, it makes a great opener for another Rein, or for convincing squishier characters to go away. Hammering is very powerful, but risky since it leaves you open to getting focused down. I need to work on aiming my charge, but I had some good plays tonight where I managed to snag their Mercy. I know this probably isn't true but from the perspective of someone who doesn't really play Rein but is often the target of charges, I don't see where "aiming" comes into play. It seems to have a pretty good space it can just suck you in from, and I feel like I get teleported to the tip of his charge more often than I get brushed aside. I don't suppose anyone knows what the exact mechanics on that are, or what the hitbox shape is like? It gets frustrating not knowing or being able to avoid it properly.
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Jul 18, 2016 05:05
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Nehru the Damaja posted:Was discussed a few pages ago. Some guy made it to rank 80 just playing Torbjorn because the rank point algorithm cares about raw numbers and nobody puts out useless no-context raw numbers like Torbjorn. So even though his win rate is And this is why you shouldn't track MMR based on anything but the opponent's MMR and whether you won or lost.
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Jul 18, 2016 05:06
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Nehru the Damaja posted:Was discussed a few pages ago. Some guy made it to rank 80 just playing Torbjorn because the rank point algorithm cares about raw numbers and nobody puts out useless no-context raw numbers like Torbjorn. So even though his win rate is The evidence for this theory is pretty weak. Take this comparison for example http://masteroverwatch.com/profile/pc/us/Torbj%C3%B6rn-11130 & https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/career/pc/us/Torbj%C3%B6rn-11130#competitive-play vs http://masteroverwatch.com/profile/pc/us/Calvin-1337 & https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/career/pc/us/Calvin-1337#competitive-play Same rank, but Calvin has the advantage in KDR (4.81 vs 3.72) and Blizzard's Damage per Game (Damage per Minute would be preferable, but I consider Master Overwatch's DPM stat to be less trustworthy.) For your theory to be indisputably correct, Calvin ought to have a higher rank because his raw numbers are straight up better on top of a considerable win rate advantage (79.1% vs 62.1%). The more likely cause for large win rate discrepancies among the top ranks is premade groups. If you play in larger groups with stronger players, you'll rarely be the underdog and the quality of your wins will be lower. As a result, you'd need a higher overall win rate to hit the same rank as someone playing in less obviously dominant groups.
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Jul 18, 2016 05:10
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Okay but then we're left with "how does a guy who pops Molten Core in a 1v1 against Mercy and still dies to her make it to rank 80" His play borders on non-participation. Like I'm totally willing to accept I could be wrong but we've got no satisfactory explanation for what we're seeing without it Nehru the Damaja fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Jul 18, 2016 |
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Jul 18, 2016 05:30
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Nehru the Damaja posted:Okay but then we're left with "how does a guy who pops Molten Core in a 1v1 against Mercy and still dies to her make it to rank 80" Sheer variance of play over hundreds of hours of footage? Note that I'm not claiming that nothing fishy is going on, just that looking at win rate alone can be really deceptive. For instance, if Blizzard looks at Damage Done relative to teammates, then maybe Torb the hero is extremely good at outperforming mediocre groups, which gives Torb the player a rank advantage over people who play together in stronger groups or people play characters in similar groups with a larger impact on average but a less consistent statistical performance. But of course that's extremely speculative and impossible to prove given the limited information we have available.
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Jul 18, 2016 05:41
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Nehru the Damaja posted:Give torbjorn's turrets all of these things. Not because he needs nerfed but because turret heroes are garbage and we should stop encouraging people to lean on these crutches Actually Torb's turrets should be buffed because I enjoy people getting really mad about being unable to outplay a stationary object.
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Jul 18, 2016 05:48
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I won a defence yesterday as part of a team of six Torbjorns, it was pretty funny. More armour packs than the eye could see. (PC, for reference)
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Jul 18, 2016 05:58
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I continue to be mystified by people that get tons of eliminations as Dva. Whenever I try her I feel like I'm firing nerf darts.
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Jul 18, 2016 06:13
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FatSamurai posted:I know this probably isn't true but from the perspective of someone who doesn't really play Rein but is often the target of charges, I don't see where "aiming" comes into play. It seems to have a pretty good space it can just suck you in from, and I feel like I get teleported to the tip of his charge more often than I get brushed aside. I don't suppose anyone knows what the exact mechanics on that are, or what the hitbox shape is like? It gets frustrating not knowing or being able to avoid it properly. No idea. It, like Roadhog's hook, seems to have a hitbox of "whatever the gently caress it wants."
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Jul 18, 2016 06:16
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Internet Kraken posted:I continue to be mystified by people that get tons of eliminations as Dva. Whenever I try her I feel like I'm firing nerf darts. She's sooo much more fun now on PTR
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Jul 18, 2016 06:17
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Every single one of my 4 comp matches tonight, we were the underdog, 3 of those we were the underdog by 2 ranks. But it was all worth it because in the last game, we had a rank 28 teammate (average enemy rank 49) and we absolutely crushed them. Steamrolled our attack on King's Row and then held them to basically zero progress past the last checkpoint on defense. It was awesome. Of course I had to laugh when the rank I gained from that win was basically just a smidge more than I lost for each of the losses. e: Oh by the way, I told the rank 28 about bacon's stream, going for the lowest rank. He said he was in a game with a rank 6 earlier that day and he was SOOOO pissed about it. Haha. He's bound to show up on bacon's stream at some point, Viper826 or something like that.
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Jul 18, 2016 06:19
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Internet Kraken posted:I continue to be mystified by people that get tons of eliminations as Dva. Whenever I try her I feel like I'm firing nerf darts. Well eliminations aren't necessarily "final blows" or whatever the game calls it, elims also counts damage assists, so a lot of the time with DVa you can rack up a big elim score by firing wildly and winging people who then die a second later to someone else. I just had a game where I got 38 eliminations as Winston and I know I didn't solo kill 38 people over the course of that game.
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Jul 18, 2016 06:21
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Canemacar posted:No idea. It, like Roadhog's hook, seems to have a hitbox of "whatever the gently caress it wants." The more I play Roadhog the less I like him. The hook just chooses to be wildly inconsistent sometimes and it sucks. Pull a guy into a wall, pull a guy behind you, its ridiculous. And then when the Roadhog is on the other team he hooks you from behind a pillar and you magically slide right into his gun. Kai Tave posted:Well eliminations aren't necessarily "final blows" or whatever the game calls it, elims also counts damage assists, so a lot of the time with DVa you can rack up a big elim score by firing wildly and winging people who then die a second later to someone else. I just had a game where I got 38 eliminations as Winston and I know I didn't solo kill 38 people over the course of that game. Yeah but I mean I see people on Dva that sometimes do way more damage in general and I just don't get how they manage it. She's probably the hero I understand the least in how to play her effectively.
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Jul 18, 2016 06:34
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Kai Tave posted:Well eliminations aren't necessarily "final blows" or whatever the game calls it, elims also counts damage assists, so a lot of the time with DVa you can rack up a big elim score by firing wildly and winging people who then die a second later to someone else. I just had a game where I got 38 eliminations as Winston and I know I didn't solo kill 38 people over the course of that game. I'd like it if they switched gold medals from elims to final blows. When I feel smug about how much better I am than my team, I want it to be cause I earned it! Also, is the soundtrack for this game available? Im liking the Route 66 tune.
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Jul 18, 2016 06:34
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Internet Kraken posted:The more I play Roadhog the less I like him. The hook just chooses to be wildly inconsistent sometimes and it sucks. Pull a guy into a wall, pull a guy behind you, its ridiculous. And then when the Roadhog is on the other team he hooks you from behind a pillar and you magically slide right into his gun. Supposedly they're looking to fix some issues with Roadhog's hook pulling people to your side or behind you but I don't know if it's waiting on the PTR to finalize or not. Canemacar posted:I'd like it if they switched gold medals from elims to final blows. When I feel smug about how much better I am than my team, I want it to be cause I earned it! There's a complete soundtrack of some sort someone uploaded to Youtube, I'm not sure if you can buy it somewhere or what. Actually scratch that, Google tells me you can buy it for $11 from iTunes.
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Jul 18, 2016 06:43
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Internet Kraken posted:Yeah but I mean I see people on Dva that sometimes do way more damage in general and I just don't get how they manage it. She's probably the hero I understand the least in how to play her effectively. doing a lot of damage with d.va is easy because she never has to reload. get in closish and just dump into tanks or w/e and you'll get a ton of damage by the end. this is also how you get free eliminations with her since you can flank a team, fire infinite bullets until they get mad at you, then leave (not many heroes can actually chase a d.va). your team can then clean up or at least move in while the enemy team's distracted if you want to get solo kills, you basically have to get into someone's face; d.va's guns are basically full auto shotguns. you just have to make sure not to over commit since d.va can't win against multiple people and the mech is kinda fragile
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Jul 18, 2016 06:46
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The Defense Matrix buff is apparently really good at enabling D.Va to initiate better without half-dying on the way there which means she can afford to be more of an aggressive bully.
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Jul 18, 2016 06:48
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