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There's a veritable potpourri of Expertise feats that should get nearly anyone everything they need with 1 feat. Don't overlook Master of Arms (for weapon switch-hitters like Thieves and Slayers and some Fighters), Arcane Fusillade Expertise (Artificers), Holy Crusader Expertise, War Wizard Expertise, etc.
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Jul 18, 2016 14:26
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Just Give Them A Flat +1 To Hit. e; per tier, yes. 
Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Jul 18, 2016 |
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Jul 18, 2016 15:13
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Lemon-Lime posted:Just Give Them A Flat +1 To Hit.
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Jul 18, 2016 16:40
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ImpactVector posted:The only issue with this is you don't really want it to stack with any Expertise feats they do end up picking up. Oh, for sure - just ban Expertise feats entirely if you're going to do that, but it saves everyone the trouble of having to worry about which Expertise feat to take and not getting the +1 whenever they're not using something that's covered by the one they did take.
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Jul 18, 2016 16:42
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Lemon-Lime posted:Just Give Them A Scaling +1 Per Tier To Hit.
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Jul 18, 2016 16:43
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Lemon-Lime posted:Just Give Them A Flat +1 To Hit.
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Jul 18, 2016 16:46
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Lemon-Lime posted:Just Give Them A Flat +1 To Hit. +1 Feat Bonus per tier. Then they can take the e-expertises if they want, and many of them are worth taking entirely independently of their to-hit bonus.
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Jul 18, 2016 17:21
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Do magic weapons give their bonus damage once per [W] or once per attack?
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Jul 29, 2016 19:08
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Per damage roll, if you want to be completely accurate. If a power deals 2[W]+4 damage and you find a +1 weapon, it now deals 2[W]+5 damage. Something that gets overlooked so often I'm not even completely sure if it's actually true: if a power deals 2[W]+4 damage on a hit, and then 1d10 under a certain condition, a +1 weapon means it now deals 2[W]+5 and 1d10+1. Is that right?
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Jul 29, 2016 19:13
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Only if that 1d10 comes from another, separate attack hitting.
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Jul 29, 2016 19:15
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Been meaning to get to the bottom of this for a long time, actually. A weapon or implement's enhancement bonus is to damage rolls. The Rules Compendium says (p222): an attack power may contain multiple damage rolls. If a creature has a bonus to damage rolls and uses such a power, the bonus applies to every damage roll of that power. The example specifically lists multitarget powers, but that's just an example and it seems to check out with the actual rules text. Perfectly possible I'm overlooking something elsewhere, mind. e: I don't mean stuff like "1d10 extra damage if the target is bloodied", that's extra damage and is covered, but like "hit: 1d10+STAT damage, effect: creates a zone, any creature that starts its turn in the zone takes 1d6 damage." My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Jul 29, 2016 |
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Jul 29, 2016 19:26
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slydingdoor posted:Only if that 1d10 comes from another, separate attack hitting. Or if it comes from an effect that is not a hit. or is explicitly a separate damage roll. E.g. Twin Strike gets 1[W]+1x2 Thundering Howl gets 1[W]+str+1 and separately 1d6+1.
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Jul 29, 2016 19:27
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Welcome to the most annoying aspect of 4e's metagame - desperately trying to find what you can claim counts as a totally separate damage roll so I get to add all my modifiers again, honest!
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Jul 30, 2016 00:38
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ProfessorCirno posted:Welcome to the most annoying aspect of 4e's metagame - desperately trying to find what you can claim counts as a totally separate damage roll so I get to add all my modifiers again, honest! It reminds me of how folks try to get double or triple their ability mod to damage. Is that even a thing you can do? Like, the example I heard was getting a dex-based RBA and grabbing Primal Eye at 11th from MCing Seeker to get double-Dex.
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Jul 30, 2016 01:11
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That rule actually backfired on my last sorcerer. I was a Dragon Guardian, which was a lot of fun to play, except that the paragon path mark's punishment damage (which is technically part of the power) was utterly overwhelming and forced me to constantly hit-and-run to force my GM not to take it because there was absolutely no reason for the enemy not to attack me again otherwise. It was a perfect mark and wasn't supposed to be. So that got old really quickly and I ended up just forfeiting the second bonus instance (which makes the punishment damage perfectly balanced) and also ditching Flame Spiral, which turned out fine because using Flame Spiral was also boring as sin.
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Jul 30, 2016 01:13
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Rules-lawyering charopping is the worst poo poo. It's not an exercise in shrewdly tweaking feats and powers and whatnot anymore, it's obnoxiously arguing the definition of the word "is." That's not clever, that's just petty.
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Jul 30, 2016 04:23
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Unknown Quantity posted:It reminds me of how folks try to get double or triple their ability mod to damage. Is that even a thing you can do? Like, the example I heard was getting a dex-based RBA and grabbing Primal Eye at 11th from MCing Seeker to get double-Dex. Same issue I have with a lot of the talk around double dipping mods on bonus damage rolls - there's a pretty narrow subset of builds and powers that can make disproportionate, unanswerable use of it. Most of them involve Sorcerer. On average it pushes more bad powers to usable than usable powers to overpowered, I think, and you can spot adjudicate the ones that clearly weren't thinking about that kind of thing when they were made.
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Jul 30, 2016 08:20
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I mean, the only time I've really seen RBAs supercharged is a weird off-brand Thief build, and outside of charge spamming there's equally not as much MBA supercharging. Like I said, the end-meta was lovely "no see this is totally THREE damage instances because" combined with elemental damage and vulnerability abuse. That and ridic novas.
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Jul 30, 2016 08:28
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I did see someone with the doubledex RBA build and I can tell you that A: it was optimal but B: they got super bored very fast. Same with that dumb triplecon build.
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Jul 30, 2016 08:44
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Vulnerability exploitation is the only thing I really hate on, because it invariably skews the party - and the entire game - around itself in a way that nothing else really does, and the primary methods of countering it in monster design are even less fun.
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Jul 30, 2016 08:52
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I mean, the easiest answer is to have the GM tell the party not to do that poo poo, but it's irritating to say the least that the game went down that path in the first place.
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Jul 30, 2016 09:41
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Unknown Quantity posted:It reminds me of how folks try to get double or triple their ability mod to damage. Is that even a thing you can do? Like, the example I heard was getting a dex-based RBA and grabbing Primal Eye at 11th from MCing Seeker to get double-Dex. I think the highest you can get is something like 5xCON to a single attack with max CON, but I cannot for the life of me remember how, it's been like 2 years. It involves an Epic Destiny and the Lyrandar Wind-Rider PP, I can remember that much. As long as everyone sticks to the SAME level of optimisation, the game works and the GM can compensate. The game only really struggles when one player's running a ridiculous CharOp build and another's running a bow and arrow Slayer or a Vampire or something.
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Jul 30, 2016 09:41
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On the topic of applying Vuln, I always kind of wanted to play an elemental pact warlock since their gimmick seemed kind of interesting (easy access to heavy vuln application, but of a quasi-random element, so it's a bit harder for others to exploit unless they're carrying a golfbag of elemental weapons). A shame they didn't get a full set of 1-30 powers though. I liked the powers they did get.
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Jul 30, 2016 16:53
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thespaceinvader posted:I think the highest you can get is something like 5xCON to a single attack with max CON, but I cannot for the life of me remember how, it's been like 2 years. It involves an Epic Destiny and the Lyrandar Wind-Rider PP, I can remember that much. Wardens have a feat that adds con damage when you slow someone (which you always are because Warden) and a weapon(?) that adds con damage when you're in a guardian form (which you always are because Warden) so those might be involved.
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Jul 30, 2016 17:00
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djw175 posted:Wardens have a feat that adds con damage when you slow someone (which you always are because Warden) and a weapon(?) that adds con damage when you're in a guardian form (which you always are because Warden) so those might be involved. Yeah, it definitely involved both of those.
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Jul 30, 2016 21:12
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Obligatum VII posted:On the topic of applying Vuln, I always kind of wanted to play an elemental pact warlock since their gimmick seemed kind of interesting (easy access to heavy vuln application, but of a quasi-random element, so it's a bit harder for others to exploit unless they're carrying a golfbag of elemental weapons). A shame they didn't get a full set of 1-30 powers though. I liked the powers they did get. One of the things you can do as an elemental pact Warlock is pick a bunch of powers with another pacts riders, and then turn all of them on at level 11 with twofold. You sadly can't go the other way around because the thing that determines your daily weakness isn't a part of your pact features.
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Jul 30, 2016 23:04
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Kurieg posted:One of the things you can do as an elemental pact Warlock is pick a bunch of powers with another pacts riders, and then turn all of them on at level 11 with twofold. Yeah, they're quite playable by just grabbing other pact's powers. I just mean I liked the specific elemental pact powers and thought they were neat.
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Jul 31, 2016 09:19
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Yep. Elementallock doesn't need its own powers because it has that psychic/necrotic transmutation thing. Just pack a whole mess of surges and that belt that gives you temps when you spend an encounter power = number of surges you've spent so far today, and second wind after every rest to set your damage to the right type if you need to.
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Jul 31, 2016 09:34
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Masterwork armours. Are they another thread in the math patch, or are they just some random poo poo that I can ignore?
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Jul 31, 2016 17:38
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Math patch I'm pretty sure. Although I don't know how much the various "+1 to Fort/Ref/Will" or "resist 1 all" masterwork armors enter into that.
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Jul 31, 2016 18:34
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Yet more turtles, then.
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Aug 1, 2016 00:37
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The Crotch posted:Masterwork armours. This is what AC progression looks like if you're only using the armors in PHB 1:  This is what AC progression looks like if you include the additional armors in PHB 2:  1. The overall effect is the same, but you get a "smoother" progression if you include the PHB 2 armors since they fill in the gaps. 2. If you're using inherent bonuses, and you won't award the base armor until the inherent bonus level matches the minimum needed for the base armor, you should really use the PHB 2 armors, because inherent bonus scaling is delayed enough that your players' AC will fall behind.
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Aug 2, 2016 05:30
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This is overall a good demonstration of what a clusterfuck that non-inherent bonus 4E D&D is. Actually I am not even sure inherent bonuses completely fix it.
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Aug 2, 2016 05:36
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Actually I am not even sure inherent bonuses completely fix it. It doesn't, because inherent bonuses aren't awarded as soon as possible. A "true" inherent bonus system would be giving you a +1 to attack, damage and defenses at levels 1, 6, 11, 16, 21, and 26. The progression reflected in DMG 2/Dark Sun is delayed: Attack / damage only gets increases at 2, 7, 12, 18, 24 and 28 Defenses only increases at 4, 9, 14, 19, 24 and 30 Or to put it another way: A player should be getting [Warplate Armor AC 11 +4 enhancement bonus] by level 16. If you're using inherent bonuses and will only give the Warplate when the inherent bonus to defense becomes +4, the player won't get it until level 19. If you're only using the PHB 1 armors, then the player will have been using [Plate Armor AC 8 +3 enhancement bonus] since level 14 - that's a 5 level gap before they get any upgrades If you're using the PHB 2 armors, then at least the player will have been using [Gith Plate AC 10 +3 enhancement bonus] since level 14 - still a long stretch of time, but at least they're 2 AC up
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Aug 2, 2016 05:52
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Thanks for that. What about the armours that boost NADs? Nagahide, githweave, etc.
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Aug 2, 2016 06:03
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PHB 1 Scale Armors: PHB 2 Scale Armors:  If you look at that, the Nagascale armor is still useful for the same reasons the PHB 2 additional plate armors are: they fill gaps in the AC progression. It just so happens that they also grant a NAD bonus. But if the armor is much lighter, and therefore the AC spread is shorter, look at what happens: PHB 1 Cloth and Leather Armors:  PHB 2 Cloth and Leather Armors:  You don't need to use the Githweave armor because there's no 0.5 base AC between 0 base AC Cloth and 1 base AC Feyweave. Similarly, the first Leather armor is 2 base AC, and then the next step up is Feyleather Armor with 3 base AC. So you don't really need to use the Drowmesh armor that's in-between them unless you specifically want to award a +1 bonus to Reflex. These armors don't capture the whole spectrum of NADs anyway, so they're not necessary for progression.
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Aug 2, 2016 06:15
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Wasn't masterwork just shoved in because they forgot to account for DEX/INT being applied to light armor scaling, and not heavy?
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Aug 2, 2016 07:34
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One of my players is doubling down on powers that allow him to "increase the size of your blast and burst attacks by 1" and wants to know if they stack so he can turn a burst 3 into a burst 6 if he needs to, and my initial thought is to say "yes, unquestionably" but I thought I'd better check. Invoker with Staff of the War Mage/Lv10 Utility Enunciation/PP Adept of Whispers, for reference.
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Aug 2, 2016 16:00
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Yeah, those would stack, since they're from different sources and don't have any sort of named bonus (like power, item, or feat bonuses). They'd also stack with the Resounding Thunder feat in paragon. I wouldn't worry too much about it, since two of those are daily abilities and the other one is an AP boost, so it's more of a highlight than anything else.
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Aug 2, 2016 22:07
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Oh, I'm not worried, I just played this game long enough to know that when something looks straightforward, it usually, but not always, is. Two dailies and an AP: when you absolutely, positively, got to Astral Terror every motherfucker in the room.
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Aug 3, 2016 11:00
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