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you know what you can do if you have major depressive disorder? nembutsu practice. heck shinran would probably say if the mentally healthy can be "saved" by amida, so much more so the depressed
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Jun 26, 2016 04:50
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Thank you all for the advice, I will look into Nembutsu Practice and the Green Tara mantra, I don't want to just waltz into a gathering point and try to fit in without really talking to them and from how it kinda feels, I kinda feel a bit Isolated from the buddhist community here, but that might just be all in my head. As for major depressive disorder, that's mostly my noggin being a bit out of whack, the meditation has helped control it from being absolutely controlling my life, but something like what you guys suggested would help when I am not/can't meditate. Thank you very much, I will look into them.
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Jun 26, 2016 05:01
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I made a thread about Tibetan Astrology if anyone is interested in that. I also put a link back to here from there because while Tibetan astrology is dependent upon Buddhism, it isn't really part of Buddhism so I wanted to deflect people off of that idea.
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Jul 4, 2016 20:24
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Any Buddhist primary sources that question the morality of the dharma? Or of the morality of the karma of your past lives influencing your birth?
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Jul 6, 2016 02:37
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The Phlegmatist posted:Any Buddhist primary sources that question the morality of the dharma? What do you mean 'morality of the karma'?
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Jul 6, 2016 11:35
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Is there a lot of people in this thread who are into Buddhism as a philosophy kind of and not into the religious side as much? A lot of Buddhism ideas are close to my way of thinking and I already enjoy meditation and would like to spend more time meditating. I just found out there are a few zen Buddhist circles in my city and I'll probably try hitting them up as a way to practice meditation/learn more about it. But I can't for the life of me start believing/be interested into the more "magical/religious" side of it. The academic stuff can be interesting, but since it tends to be based on the religious side so I can't really give it too much importance for my personal life. Basically, I love the Buddha's teaching that go something like "don't know/can't know/anyway it's not important" on the more magical stuff like god since this is exactly how I see it. I don't know/care if we are reborn (in the traditional western or "river flowing" Asian way) or not and I think most of what makes Buddhism core still apply anyway. Anyway, is there a lot of people like me here? Do you guys ever go to Buddhist temples? How does it go, are people all intense or do you feel at home even if you don't share the whole set of belief?
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Jul 6, 2016 12:40
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Rhymenoceros posted:What do you mean 'question the morality' though? Well, to let me ask a more pointed question with an example, Let's assume a man is born a sociopath. He's inclined only to himself, hates others and cannot follow the Buddha or practice ahimsa -- that's an entirely foreign concept to him. Did it arise because of his karma? Do any Buddhist thinkers question the morality of the fact that samsara allowed that to happen?
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Jul 6, 2016 13:08
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The Phlegmatist posted:Well, to let me ask a more pointed question with an example, Of course his circumstances arise as a result of karma, because you cannot have a result without the causes and conditions supporting it. It is an unfortunate rebirth indeed, we'd say this has a human birth, but not a precious human birth, if it is in fact unable to practice Dharma. As far as the morality of the fact goes, morality, to me, indicates choice or action. It is of course inadequate that samsara allows to do this, it is dukkha, unsatisfactoriness. That is, in fact, the entire reason we practice Buddhism, because this samsara is unsatisfactory and full of suffering - the blatant suffering, the suffering of change, and the all-pervasive suffering that comes from the fact that our aggregates continually produce the karma of new aggregates. But to say it's immoral would seem to imply it's designed or constructed or otherwise comes about through something other than cause and condition. Because samsara is interdependently arisen, it would be difficult to point to a moral agent responsible for it upon whom we could pin an immorality. Instead this kind of thing is rather like a mudslide destroying a village - it's not immoral, because nobody did it or allowed it to happen (I mean maybe city planners these days, I dunno, it's a metaphor). It's definitely not good but morality or immorality doesn't apply in the absence of a moral agent. As for our sociopath, non-virtue cannot ever be virtuous, so if he does terrible things as a result of his sociopathy and gets yet a worse rebirth as a result, that is also super unfortunate, but can't be said to be immoral - nobody is doing it to him.
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Jul 6, 2016 13:55
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The Phlegmatist posted:Well, to let me ask a more pointed question with an example, yeah, that would have arisen because of his past karma. as to the morality of samsara, you have to remember that samsara is a bad thing. you don't want to be in samsara, you want to move towards nirvana (extinguishment/buddhahood, depending on who you ask) in order to escape its grip. there are tons of passages from the sutras about buddhas and bodhisattvas being moved to tears by the state of humanity in samsara (for example, kannon's head explodes thinking about all the sorrow that exists in samsara, and amida gives her eleven heads to contemplate the infinite sorrow in samsara; when she tries to reach out to those in need her arms split into thousands of pieces, and amida gives her a thousand hands to reach out to the people in samsara and offer relief) also you need to remember that in most buddhist traditions, not everyone can practice. in theravada and some mahayana traditions it's the monks only who are "really" practicing buddhism, and it is because of their karma that they were born in a position to be able to practice as opposed to the non monks whose karma is to instead support the monks in order to expiate bad karma and accumulate good karma in the hopes that in the next life they might be reborn as monks. it isn't until american buddhism, or at least modern and post-modern buddhism, that non-monastics do things like meditate and do zazen. this isn't so much seen as a question of morality so much as an understanding that in the world of samsara, evils are always going to come about HOWEVER, in my own tradition (jodo shinshu), we would not consider such a person to be incapable of practicing buddhism. or i should say, not as being anymore unable of practicing buddhism. in the jodo shinshu perspective, no amount of meditation or zazen will bring a person to buddhahood, because all of humanity is too depraved to be able to save themselves from samsara. instead, only by a person opening themselves up to amida's infinite compassion can one be reborn in the pure land, and from there receive the instruction in buddhist practice to be able to achieve buddhahood. it's a matter of simultaneous becoming. amida said that if he were to be a buddha all people, regardless of who they are, will be reborn in his pure land if they call on his name. therefore, amida cannot truly become a buddha until all are reborn in the pure land, and no one can be reborn in the pure land unless amida is a buddha. now, you might be thinking, "that's all well and good but the man i am talking about cannot distinguish between good and evil," to which the pure land practitioner would respond, "no one does!" in the tannisho shinran told yuien "the good will be reborn in the pure land, so so much more so the evil." the way of nembutsu practice isn't for the monk in a monastery, it's for the butcher who cannot have a livelihood without killing, the burakumin who is considered to be on the lowest rung of society, for those who cannot cease to commit evil. in fact part of shinjin is understanding that one is falling into hell at the same time as being reborn in the pure land. so a sociopathic man, who cannot distinguish between right and wrong, might not be able to practice zazen but he can practice nembutsu. though i can go into more depth about how nembutusu is not actually a jodo shinshu practice, it's more like jodo shinshu non-practice because even asserting the nembutsu (which is the process of chanting "namo amida butsu," i rely on the amida buddha) as a practice is the same as asserting that there is some self power that can pull one out of samsara, so it's more like other power, but the main point i'm trying to say is that jodo shinshu is for those for whom other forms of buddhism are impossible KingColliwog posted:Is there a lot of people in this thread who are into Buddhism as a philosophy kind of and not into the religious side as much? A lot of Buddhism ideas are close to my way of thinking and I already enjoy meditation and would like to spend more time meditating. I just found out there are a few zen Buddhist circles in my city and I'll probably try hitting them up as a way to practice meditation/learn more about it. But I can't for the life of me start believing/be interested into the more "magical/religious" side of it. The academic stuff can be interesting, but since it tends to be based on the religious side so I can't really give it too much importance for my personal life. Basically, I love the Buddha's teaching that go something like "don't know/can't know/anyway it's not important" on the more magical stuff like god since this is exactly how I see it. I don't know/care if we are reborn (in the traditional western or "river flowing" Asian way) or not and I think most of what makes Buddhism core still apply anyway. i don't know about here but there's a lot of people like you in western buddhism. in fact, i'd go so far as to say the defining characteristic of american buddhism is an unwillingness to associate with what's often derisively referred to as "superstition" within buddhist traditions. which i personally think is really sad, not the least of which is because it means that american buddhists are far less likely as a whole to really engage with the idea of pure land practice (it's not like d.t. suzuki, modern buddhist scholar responsible for the "it's a philosophy" camp, wrote books about pure land buddhism with the description that it should form a strong basis for american buddhist practice or nothing) try not to think of yourself as being closer to the "true" teachings of buddhism, or that you're somehow superior to "other" practitioners, though! a lot of western atheist buddhists fall into that trap, and it's really racist and just a toxic mindset to practice buddhism in
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Jul 6, 2016 14:01
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KingColliwog posted:Anyway, is there a lot of people like me here? Do you guys ever go to Buddhist temples? How does it go, are people all intense or do you feel at home even if you don't share the whole set of belief? It varies from poster to poster. In the past we've had some kind of hardline posters who would decry everyone as adharma unless they accepted the literal reality of karma and rebirth and it turned this thread into a shitstorm as a result several times. I think we've mostly self-selected out of that situation though. I'm a bad representative of that kind of approach to Buddhism because I went entirely to the funky ritualist direction and embedded myself into the institution of Tibetan Buddhism with its monasticism and so on. That said, I don't like adhering to dogma for dogma's sake. Buddha himself taught that if upon reflection on something, something he taught doesn't make sense, then don't accept that simply because he said so. Buddhism is a very functional religio-philosophy with a lot of stuff that can be used by anyone to benefit themselves and others. If an aspect of Buddhism makes you a more moral and happier person, then you should adopt it. If it doesn't, then don't adopt it. Technically to be considered Buddhist one has to take Refuge in the Three Jewels, but again, that is if someone wants to append themselves with the title "Buddhist" and the ritual isn't really the point. So I mean, from my perspective, you're definitely welcome here. I also do attend a temple regularly of the Tibetan variety and you would be more than welcome, anyone is welcome regardless of their beliefs. Whether you'd enjoy it, what with the bell ringing and drum banging and horn blowing and incense and so on, I couldn't say. Some people prefer the Zen aesthetic (it has an appeal, I must admit, my Lama says Tibetan shrines look like "drama stages" sometimes). But yeah nobody would be like stopping you at the door like "Halt! Do you accept the Dalai Lama as a literal re-emanation of the mindstream of Chenrezig in unbroken succession as an office for 14 cycles!?" and then kicking you out if you don't. It's all about whether it's benefiting you and others by bringing about some kind of happiness. But you might show up when we're doing an offering practice for the lineage lama and then it gets weird and there's Tibetan chanting and so on and we all want to be very inclusive but some people are just weirded out by foreign language chanting and beating on drums, so then in that case if that weirds you out then there's nothing we can do to make it more welcoming if explaining what we're doing doesn't help. At other centers your mileage may vary, for a lot of temples it's a cultural expression of the people and they get weird about that kind of thing, and at some centers you get people wrapped up in personalities, and so on. I'm pretty fortunate to have a good center, basically, is what I'm saying.
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Jul 6, 2016 14:06
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Mo Tzu posted:HOWEVER, in my own tradition (jodo shinshu), we would not consider such a person to be incapable of practicing buddhism. or i should say, not as being anymore unable of practicing buddhism. in the jodo shinshu perspective, no amount of meditation or zazen will bring a person to buddhahood, because all of humanity is too depraved to be able to save themselves from samsara. instead, only by a person opening themselves up to amida's infinite compassion can one be reborn in the pure land, and from there receive the instruction in buddhist practice to be able to achieve buddhahood. it's a matter of simultaneous becoming. amida said that if he were to be a buddha all people, regardless of who they are, will be reborn in his pure land if they call on his name. therefore, amida cannot truly become a buddha until all are reborn in the pure land, and no one can be reborn in the pure land unless amida is a buddha. now, you might be thinking, "that's all well and good but the man i am talking about cannot distinguish between good and evil," to which the pure land practitioner would respond, "no one does!" in the tannisho shinran told yuien "the good will be reborn in the pure land, so so much more so the evil." the way of nembutsu practice isn't for the monk in a monastery, it's for the butcher who cannot have a livelihood without killing, the burakumin who is considered to be on the lowest rung of society, for those who cannot cease to commit evil. in fact part of shinjin is understanding that one is falling into hell at the same time as being reborn in the pure land. so a sociopathic man, who cannot distinguish between right and wrong, might not be able to practice zazen but he can practice nembutsu. though i can go into more depth about how nembutusu is not actually a jodo shinshu practice, it's more like jodo shinshu non-practice because even asserting the nembutsu (which is the process of chanting "namo amida butsu," i rely on the amida buddha) as a practice is the same as asserting that there is some self power that can pull one out of samsara, so it's more like other power, but the main point i'm trying to say is that jodo shinshu is for those for whom other forms of buddhism are impossible Pure Land Buddhism is the Faith Alone school of Buddhism  I actually have a question though for you out of curiosity. Within the Vajrayana we also believe that the Amitabha Pure Land is essentially open for all out of Amitabha's great compassion and aspiration prayer. My Lama has joked that we're obviously very confused, because we practice Amitayus (a form of Amitabha) for long life, and then we pray to go to Sukhavati. So we want to die but not right now! We also will recite the Aspiration of Sukhavati prayer for the deceased and for ourselves, with its own mantra or the mantra of Amitabha, Om Ami Dewa Hri, with the hope that hearing that prayer can encourage one to go towards Amitabha's pure land instead of taking a rebirth. I don't know what Amitabha's pure land is called in Japanese, but in Amida's pureland Sukhavati, how does that work for those who are not ready to see a Buddha face to face? In our tradition we state that a person is born into the inside of a closed lotus flower where they are taught the Dharma until their karma is purified enough that they have the karma to see a Buddha face to face, at which point the lotus flower opens and they can receive teachings directly from Amida. Is that concept the same in your tradition? I think probably the difference between Pure Land Buddhism and the rest of us is that you're much more realistic about how lovely samsara is haha Paramemetic fucked around with this message at 14:17 on Jul 6, 2016 |
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Jul 6, 2016 14:15
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Paramemetic posted:Pure Land Buddhism is the Faith Alone school of Buddhism first of all, the name of the pure land in japanese is jodo. jodo shinshu actually means "true pure land teaching," which distinguishes it from jodo shu which is just pure land teaching. i'm not much of a buddhist philosopher, though, so i don't really know quite what jodo shinshu believes happens after rebirth in the pure land. you probably wouldn't recognize the japanese names, but basically the sutras that jodo shinshu uses are the sutra of the buddha of infinite life, the sutra of contemplation of the buddha of infinite life, and the amitabha sutra. there's also the seven pure land masters, seven teachers that start with nagarjuna and end with shinran (the founder of jodo shinshu)'s master honen (the founder of jodo shu, which like way to go shinran making your own school and saying it's the true version of your master's school). these masters are nagarjuna, vasubandhu, t'an-luan, tao-ch'o, shan-tao, genshin, and honen. i'm mentioning these because if what you're referring to is found either in the sutras or the seven sages, then it might be a thing in jodo shinshu. otherwise i don't think it would be in general i think jodo shinshu is far more interested in the process of being reborn in the pure land, less so on what the pure land looks like. but i can barely be considered a pure land practitioner. i haven't even been to many dharma services, let alone received a buddhist name, so my understanding is fairly limited to the texts i've managed to read, and the sutras are not among those texts.
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Jul 6, 2016 14:42
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The Phlegmatist posted:Well, to let me ask a more pointed question with an example, It may be a mix of karma and environment that makes someone behave like a sociopath, but it's the bad behavior that creates the bad karma. From the perspective of the EBTs (early Buddhist texts) karma is a complex phenomenon. The precise cause and effect of things cannot be known (unless you are a Buddha), the only thing you can know for sure is that some behaviors lead to experiencing unpleasant feelings in the future, and some behaviors lead to experiencing pleasant feelings in the future. Unskillful behavior is defined to be the behavior that reaps bad results. Skillful behavior is defined to be behavior that reaps good results. Samsara is suffering, and the goal of Buddhism is to escape that. This is not a question about morality, as Buddhist morality is about doing the skillful and avoiding the unskillful (as in the paragraph above). A good reason to escape samsara is precisely because you might end up a sociopath due to circumstance (some bad karma from a few lives back and a bad upbringing) and then you do all sorts of stupid acts and end up in hell for an eon or two. Samsara is "bad" basically :-) Edit: You might like to check out this study guide on karma (here called 'kamma') from the perspective of the EBTs.
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Jul 6, 2016 14:52
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you're not in samsara. you ARE samsara.
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Jul 6, 2016 17:19
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you're the thing itself. you're the trap itself.
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Jul 6, 2016 17:20
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Paramemetic posted:Of course his circumstances arise as a result of karma, because you cannot have a result without the causes and conditions supporting it. It is an unfortunate rebirth indeed, we'd say this has a human birth, but not a precious human birth, if it is in fact unable to practice Dharma. That's a good explanation, thanks.
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Jul 6, 2016 18:19
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Does anyone know of any good "3 marks of existence" themed pranks?
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Jul 9, 2016 21:16
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Having a small conundrum. Next week is the July 7-day sesshin at the Rochester Zen Center in New York. I've been going to these for about four years now, doing one or two sesshin a year. Been sitting 45 mins a day, 5 days/week since this time last year in preparation for this coming sesshin. I sat regularly before this, just not as long/consistently. However, now that I'm a week away, I'm not sure what to do: If I go, then I will have a single day of earned/sick time for the rest of the year (six more months). Granted I have a semi-flexible schedule if I get sick, but 8.25 hours will be it for the year. If I don't go, then I'll regret not going. I'll also probably burn the vacation time in the long-term doing frivolous crap like always. I can cancel any time before showing up, and the Roshi is not my formal teacher (don't have one), but I feel this weird obligation even though I know they wouldn't notice my absence in the slightest. Any thoughts? Am I just being lazy?
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Jul 18, 2016 17:13
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HoboTech posted:Having a small conundrum. The Three Pillars of Zen was one of the first books about Buddhism I ever read and started me on a practice path that's lasted for decades. I've been wanting to go to RZC forever - how do you find Roshi Kjolhede? I definitely can't give you a technical answer as a matter of the Eightfold Path (so I may be wildly off here), but my instinct would be to tell you that if you're going to be doing yourself potential harm by going, which might well be the case if you can't meet your physical needs in the event of an illness, it wouldn't be responsible or appropriate for you to go. Maybe you could go to the September 9 sesshin and not burn any time?
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Jul 18, 2016 18:06
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Annual Prophet posted:The Three Pillars of Zen was one of the first books about Buddhism I ever read and started me on a practice path that's lasted for decades. I've been wanting to go to RZC forever - how do you find Roshi Kjolhede? The Roshi's teachings were actually what made me do sesshin in the first place. They put out teisho's as podcasts from time to time and they are all really good talks. I don't think he's ever said anything I've directly disagreed with, and having met him in person he is entirely sincere in his practice. I've thought about becoming his student but I live pretty far away and my time to drive 8+ hours for a ceremony is limited. As for the upcoming sesshin, you do raise a good point. I doubt I would do a different one this year if I miss next week, but I'd very likely do one early next year (perhaps the Rohatsu). One thing I do remember Roshi saying is if you have to give up either daily practice or sesshin, then give up sesshin. Since I won't be dropping my daily sitting any time soon, maybe this is good advice as well. If anything, it could probably be increased to compensate. Leaning more towards waiting now. Thanks for the input. Edit: Never mind! I've decided to go. I'll take my chances. HoboTech fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Jul 20, 2016 |
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Jul 19, 2016 15:27
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Hi, newcomer here to Buddhism, I'm seriously looking into it and seeking refuge. One thing I was wondering about is the vow about intoxication. Do the practicing Buddhists here follow this strictly, or do you do more of a lenient thing where you're happy to drink coffee and drink socially with friends. As I currently am, I would like to continue having coffee (I actually enjoy it, I don't drink it for the caffeine) and having the occasional glass of wine or beer. What are your thoughts? I'm willing to stop doing these things, I don't feel like I need them, but I do know they're something I enjoy partaking in.
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Jul 23, 2016 11:32
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Ammonsa posted:Hi, newcomer here to Buddhism, I'm seriously looking into it and seeking refuge. well, this question has a lot of different answers depending on what tradition you're part of and who you ask. some people believe that following the five precepts is only a requirement if you take specific vows, others believe that all who follow the eightfold path hold to them. for my tradition, jodo shinshu, it's encouraged to follow the precepts as best you can (less alcohol, less meat, etc) but not because following the precepts leads to enlightenment. in jodo shinshu we believe that human beings are incapable of achieving buddhahood through our own effort, and we rely on tariki or other power to move us towards an understanding that only through amida buddha's vows can we become buddhas, and that realization leads to us calling on amida's name (the nembutsu, or namo amida butsu (i rely on amida buddha)). this state is called shinjin. therefore, keeping the precepts as though it is a good buddhist thing to do which will lead us towards buddhahood is not relying on other power, but is instead self power and should be avoided. the reason we should make some attempts to keep the precepts (though it's impossible for lay people to follow them entirely, or at least in most cases) is in thanks for the nembutsu and for amida's gift of shinjin (the state in which other power compels us to recite the nembutsu) essentially, you can still drink if you want to because it isn't by abstaining from drinking that you become a buddha, but you shouldn't get drunk every night either.
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Jul 23, 2016 11:56
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Mo Tzu posted:well, this question has a lot of different answers depending on what tradition you're part of and who you ask. some people believe that following the five precepts is only a requirement if you take specific vows, others believe that all who follow the eightfold path hold to them. I got a question for you about Jodo Shinshu, if Humans can't attain Buddhahood, then what was Siddharatha Gautama and the future Maitreya? I am honestly curious.
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Jul 23, 2016 14:09
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HoboTech posted:Edit: Never mind! I've decided to go. I'll take my chances. Would you mind posting your impressions when you get back? I've been reading yet another translation of Shobogenzo, and it's making me want to go the extra mile and do some group practice. I'd also be curious about some of the points that may differ from Soto only practice: sitting, kyosaku, koan, etc.
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Jul 23, 2016 14:41
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Senior Scarybagels posted:I got a question for you about Jodo Shinshu, if Humans can't attain Buddhahood, then what was Siddharatha Gautama and the future Maitreya? I am honestly curious. well it's not so much that humans CAN'T, it's that the era in which through self power humans can achieve buddhahood has passed. the founder of jodo shinshu, shinran, lived in the kamakura period of japanese history, which was characterized by widespread war and political instability (the first warring states period, essentially). this, coupled with him and honen (his teacher and one of shinran's seven pure land masters) being laicized by the emperor because other students of honen had some inappropriate contact with the retired emperor's concubines (i'd like to think it was consensual, but let's be honest it probably wasn't) led shinran to doubt the efficacy of the intense meditative practices he engaged in on mt hiei as a member of the tendai sect. he believed he was living in mappo, and as a result thought that self power could no longer be relied on as a means to buddhahood so it's not so much that humans are entirely depraved by their natures, so much as our place in history has lead to human depravity of such a level that we cannot attain buddhahood through our own effort
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Jul 23, 2016 14:58
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Mo Tzu posted:well, this question has a lot of different answers depending on what tradition you're part of and who you ask. some people believe that following the five precepts is only a requirement if you take specific vows, others believe that all who follow the eightfold path hold to them. Thanks, that's pretty helpful. I'm just curious because I'm already not a big drinker, I might have a coffee every day or two, and a drink or two every week regularly, it isn't even every day or so. I also don't get drunk, I usually have one and then am fine.
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Jul 23, 2016 15:07
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Mo Tzu posted:well it's not so much that humans CAN'T, it's that the era in which through self power humans can achieve buddhahood has passed. the founder of jodo shinshu, shinran, lived in the kamakura period of japanese history, which was characterized by widespread war and political instability (the first warring states period, essentially). this, coupled with him and honen (his teacher and one of shinran's seven pure land masters) being laicized by the emperor because other students of honen had some inappropriate contact with the retired emperor's concubines (i'd like to think it was consensual, but let's be honest it probably wasn't) led shinran to doubt the efficacy of the intense meditative practices he engaged in on mt hiei as a member of the tendai sect. he believed he was living in mappo, and as a result thought that self power could no longer be relied on as a means to buddhahood Not sure if this is directly relevant to you (does shin consider itself part of jodo?) but Chion-in is an amazing, beautiful temple.
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Jul 23, 2016 15:27
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Annual Prophet posted:Not sure if this is directly relevant to you (does shin consider itself part of jodo?) but Chion-in is an amazing, beautiful temple. jodo shu is a different sect from shinshu. honen is the founder of jodo shu, which means pure land teaching while jodo shinshu means true pure land teaching. shinran was kind of a jerk that way the major difference is that while shinran teaches total human depravity, honen acknowledges that people can attain buddhahood through self power, but that this was a rarity for most people and instead relying on amida's primal vow was a better and more fruitful means of attaining buddhahood. also a major difference; we shinshu say "namo amida butsu," while shu say "namu amida butsu," but this is ultimately unimportant since it's different japanese pronunciations of the same sanskrit word that's cool, though.
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Jul 23, 2016 15:35
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Mo Tzu posted:
What horseshit.
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Jul 23, 2016 15:36
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Mr. Mambold posted:What horseshit. cool comment, friend
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Jul 23, 2016 15:42
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Maybe use some critical thinking as Gautama recommended
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Jul 23, 2016 16:20
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Mr. Mambold posted:Maybe use some critical thinking as Gautama recommended as much as i want to be snippy and just tell you to go read the pali canon, instead i'm going to say that within buddhism there is a wonderful diversity of practices and sects, and that just because mine doesn't have much in the way of practice (in fact, ours is the buddhism of no practice) doesn't make it inferior pure land buddhism (not just jodo shinshu) is the most practiced form of buddhism in asia and globally. even if you don't agree with the jodo shinshu concept of human depravity (which some jodo shinshu scholars have gone against, like takamaro shigaraki) pure land practice has a lot to offer to buddhists in general and especially to american buddhists and dismissing it as "total horseshit" or lacking critical thinking does both my tradition and your own practice a disservice
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Jul 23, 2016 16:32
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Ammonsa posted:Thanks, that's pretty helpful. I'm just curious because I'm already not a big drinker, I might have a coffee every day or two, and a drink or two every week regularly, it isn't even every day or so. I also don't get drunk, I usually have one and then am fine. Tea drinking, which contains the same, but less, caffeine than coffee, is largely embraced by many Buddhist to the point it's almost culture in some sects. But tea drinking does not typically lead to an unskilled mind and damaging activities that come with addiction. You can get a lot of answers in regards to intoxicants, but it's best to consider Buddhism is about skillful means and the middle path. Drinking alcohol isn't really a skillful activity, but at the same time many people can have a drink and be fine. Some can't. No one will think you are a 'bad Buddhist' for having a drink with a meal, but it largely lies with what you know you can handle without falling off the middle path. For instance if you are in recovery from alcoholism one drink with a meal is a bad choice, but in your case it does not sound like it is an activity that needs to be abruptly stopped if you don't feel it is keeping you off the path. Just by asking, you are showing mindfulness in regards to what you are consuming, which is a very good thing. If you continue down the Buddhist path you very well may come to a stage where you decide drinking any alcohol is not something you find fruitful, or that it is creating negative conditions, and abstain from it totally. Buddhism is very forgiving, and I don't think you will find anything like 'shunning' from other people in the sangha. Practitioners realize everyone is on there own path and are at different 'stages', and as long as you are working that path to better yourself and others, you will be fine. As I have heard many teachers say, if you find you could only hold one single precept, just do that until a time when you can find that you can take on more, but in the meantime, keep learning and practicing.
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Jul 23, 2016 18:29
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Mo Tzu posted:well it's not so much that humans CAN'T, it's that the era in which through self power humans can achieve buddhahood has passed. the founder of jodo shinshu, shinran, lived in the kamakura period of japanese history, which was characterized by widespread war and political instability (the first warring states period, essentially). this, coupled with him and honen (his teacher and one of shinran's seven pure land masters) being laicized by the emperor because other students of honen had some inappropriate contact with the retired emperor's concubines (i'd like to think it was consensual, but let's be honest it probably wasn't) led shinran to doubt the efficacy of the intense meditative practices he engaged in on mt hiei as a member of the tendai sect. he believed he was living in mappo, and as a result thought that self power could no longer be relied on as a means to buddhahood So does the Jodo Shinshu reject the idea of the future Buddha to come?
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Jul 23, 2016 18:33
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Senior Scarybagels posted:So does the Jodo Shinshu reject the idea of the future Buddha to come? nah it's just not really as important as amida jodo shinshu doesn't REJECT different buddhas and bodhisattvas, it's just amida and the nembutsu are of central importance
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Jul 23, 2016 18:35
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Mo Tzu posted:as much as i want to be snippy and just tell you to go read the pali canon, instead i'm going to say that within buddhism there is a wonderful diversity of practices and sects, and that just because mine doesn't have much in the way of practice (in fact, ours is the buddhism of no practice) doesn't make it inferior While I don't personally see Pure Land as a the way, I respect your form, that's purely why I ask these questions.
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Jul 23, 2016 21:17
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It's a good thing I didn't tell you guys about the pews
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Jul 24, 2016 14:30
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Mo Tzu posted:It's a good thing I didn't tell you guys about the pews Well now you have to.
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Jul 24, 2016 17:01
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Jodo Shinshu in America is known as the Buddhist Churches, and their services are arranged similarly to Christian worship services with hymns, call and response, and, of course, pews. The heads of temples are called reverends, there are bishops, and all sorts of trappings more familiar to Protestant Christianity than to the zen hall. The reason for this is that in the 19th century, discrimination against the Japanese and suspicion of Buddhists was in full swing. The hope of the American branch of the honpa hongwanji mission was that by adding the trappings of American Christianity, pews included, they would be seen as less foreign and therefore treated more like equals Students of American history might recall this did not have that effect, and so the BCA became less an attempt to be Buddhist Christianity and more a means for Japanese Americans to retain their Japanese identity and sense of community in the face of American discrimination, similar to Black Churches (though unlike black churches, the BCA spent more time teaching about culture and less time teaching the religion) The BCA is currently moving towards teaching the dharma more than being a repository of Japanese culture, both because the people want better instruction and because there's a feeling that Jodo Shinshu has been in this country longer than some more popular forms of Buddhism, and should be part of the American Buddhist landscape. Basically working to make sure pure land practice is as acceptable and common as zazen in America
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Jul 24, 2016 22:46
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Mo Tzu posted:Jodo Shinshu in America is known as the Buddhist Churches, and their services are arranged similarly to Christian worship services with hymns, call and response, and, of course, pews. The heads of temples are called reverends, there are bishops, and all sorts of trappings more familiar to Protestant Christianity than to the zen hall. The reason for this is that in the 19th century, discrimination against the Japanese and suspicion of Buddhists was in full swing. The hope of the American branch of the honpa hongwanji mission was that by adding the trappings of American Christianity, pews included, they would be seen as less foreign and therefore treated more like equals Cool Cool, enjoy your path, I am going to stick with mine and we both will be happy.
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Jul 24, 2016 23:23
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