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I am convinced anyone who claims to have beaten a greenskin campaign on hard difficulty or higher is a loving liar, or lucky to the point that the dwarfs never sent a doomstack their way for the first fifty turns. Even without the leadership penalty there is literally nothing you can do to beat dwarfs tactically if they attack you before you can even unlock rock lobbers
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Jul 18, 2016 22:29
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I'm impressed it does act like artillery, when people were describing the hellcannon I was expecting a remodeled war elephant that could shoot fireballs and occasionally go berserk in the back of the army, instead of just a remodeled cannon with a unbreakable crew of dorfs.
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Jul 18, 2016 22:31
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Yeah the hellcannon is kinda halfassed.
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Jul 18, 2016 22:32
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Arcsquad12 posted:I am convinced anyone who claims to have beaten a greenskin campaign on hard difficulty or higher is a loving liar, or lucky to the point that the dwarfs never sent a doomstack their way for the first fifty turns. You can take them out pretty early I think, with your first Wagh if you are talking specifically about the main dwarf faction.
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Jul 18, 2016 22:38
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Kainser posted:Yeah the hellcannon is kinda halfassed. You sure it looks like the model one 
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Jul 18, 2016 22:42
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Oh no I meant mechanically. It looks amazing.
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Jul 18, 2016 22:44
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MonsterEnvy posted:You sure it looks like the model one
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Jul 18, 2016 22:44
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Obstacle2 posted:You can take them out pretty early I think, with your first Wagh if you are talking specifically about the main dwarf faction. Maybe if you auto resolve and manage to cheese it, but not on a tactical map
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Jul 18, 2016 22:45
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Arcsquad12 posted:Even without the leadership penalty there is literally nothing you can do to beat dwarfs tactically if they attack you before you can even unlock rock lobbers It's not that bad the secret to beating them is just "get a waaagh going"
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Jul 18, 2016 22:46
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Chomp8645 posted:It's not that bad the secret to beating them is just "get a waaagh going" Yeah, in my greenskin dwarf campaign I took care of Thorgrim's doomstack with help from a waaagh.
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Jul 18, 2016 22:59
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Ravenfood posted:As far as how it acts, yeah. They could be a lot more unique on the battlefield than "cannon that has unlimited morale" like they are now. On the table top there is a random chance each turn the cannon demon goes mad and tries to run forward and kick the poo poo out of people in close combat. It's pretty badass.
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Jul 18, 2016 23:13
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I have to say that the dwarfs manning the hellcannon in the model looks way better than the ones we get ingame 
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Jul 18, 2016 23:19
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Arcsquad12 posted:Maybe if you auto resolve and manage to cheese it, but not on a tactical map You can utterly wreck them with a waagh on very hard. Or grab another gen with a half stack which is enough. Greenskins early game is incredibly strong due to getting free stacks. Once you have 2 armies going you're constantly generating 2 free stacks.
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Jul 18, 2016 23:22
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Ravenfood posted:As far as how it acts, yeah. They could be a lot more unique on the battlefield than "cannon that has unlimited morale" like they are now. Yeah this is the worst. Where's the mod that turns them into chariots when the rest of the army routs?
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Jul 18, 2016 23:46
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Arcsquad12 posted:I am convinced anyone who claims to have beaten a greenskin campaign on hard difficulty or higher is a loving liar, or lucky to the point that the dwarfs never sent a doomstack their way for the first fifty turns. Basically you stack too many boyz for them to face up with dwarf warriors. The AI's army diversity is total poo poo, so you're basically fighting dwarf warriors, miners and quarrelers. Shoot the miners with your ranged first, because they're the only ones with low armour. You set out a big long line of boyz with grimgor in the middle for his leadership bonus, then charge them into the main line of warriors. Bonus points if you have a goblin shaman because they can keep these boyz in the fight for longer. Then you use your overlap of boyz to go round the back and encircle (or if they don't have artillery you can set up a horseshoe formation before you engage). Boyz beat miners or quarrelers in close combat, but lose to dwarf warriors. Your top priority is killing the quarrelers, because they're the dwarf's best unit by a mile, and totally devastating against low armour units (which are all you have) if you just let them shoot. If they get to shoot more than a few volleys, you lose. Boyz will break the miners and quarrelers before your main line breaks, so you then charge the leftover boys into the back of the dwarf warriors, which starts a chain rout. This is how I usually did it on Orcs hard, anyway. Gammymajams fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Jul 19, 2016 |
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Jul 19, 2016 00:26
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I'm just seriously annoyed that my cavalry sent to deal with the quarrelers took one volley while maneuvering and then rote completely off the field without losing a fifth of their number
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Jul 19, 2016 00:37
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Just triggered the earliest Archaeon invasion I've ever had, turn 41 as Orcs and I took over the entirety of the badlands and most of the northern holds and I captured and sacked enough that Archaeon and his bird pal showed up already, Waarghs really speed things up.
Ra Ra Rasputin fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Jul 19, 2016 |
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Jul 19, 2016 00:47
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 I'm sorry
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Jul 19, 2016 00:56
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Jul 19, 2016 01:02
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Arcsquad12 posted:I am convinced anyone who claims to have beaten a greenskin campaign on hard difficulty or higher is a loving liar, or lucky to the point that the dwarfs never sent a doomstack their way for the first fifty turns. Took out two full stacks of dwarfs in the same turn within the first 10 turns in my Grimgor Hard campaign. Trick is: lots and lots and lots of boyz to tie up the dwarf warriors. On hard mode, you'll lose eventually, but you should have more boyz than they have warriors. The real key is these guys can tie up time for Grimgor and the black orcs to tenderize whomever their facing. Outside of Thorgrim's starting unit of hammerers, absolutely nothing should be able to take either of these units on early on. Soon as those units they're facing die, send Grimgor and whatever boyz were freed up into the next fight. Continue until the entire line has been rolled up. After a couple fights like this, your army will be in rough shape, but a waagh should spawn, which you can send to besiege KaK while you recruit a new batch of boyz.
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Jul 19, 2016 01:20
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I still don't think that I "get" how to play as Chaos. I'm roaming around with this stack of poo poo units, everyone outnumbers me, literally every loving empire province and most of the dwarves have armies hovering around the area who absolutely refuse to engage me but will happily sack any subjugated vassals, etc. I just can't get going. Hell, at one point I tried to create a second stack and Kislev, the dwarves, the Empire, and seemingly the entire world knew exactly where Archaon and friends were and were happily marching doomstacks right up into the northernmost Chaos wastes because SUDDENLY they want to have a fight. It's just a loving slog and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do to get ahead. I don't even know where to start. Is there a decent guide or anything ANYWHERE? I've been googling like crazy and the only things that come up are lovely PR blurbs.
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Jul 19, 2016 01:38
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Gonkish posted:I still don't think that I "get" how to play as Chaos. I'm roaming around with this stack of poo poo units, everyone outnumbers me, literally every loving empire province and most of the dwarves have armies hovering around the area who absolutely refuse to engage me but will happily sack any subjugated vassals, etc. I just can't get going. Hell, at one point I tried to create a second stack and Kislev, the dwarves, the Empire, and seemingly the entire world knew exactly where Archaon and friends were and were happily marching doomstacks right up into the northernmost Chaos wastes because SUDDENLY they want to have a fight. It's just a loving slog and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do to get ahead. I don't even know where to start. Is there a decent guide or anything ANYWHERE? I've been googling like crazy and the only things that come up are lovely PR blurbs. Grab the horde pop increases from the blue traits, sack the gently caress out of norscan settlements, get a second horde pretty early and your units will get much better pretty soon.
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Jul 19, 2016 01:52
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Gonkish posted:I still don't think that I "get" how to play as Chaos. I'm roaming around with this stack of poo poo units, everyone outnumbers me, literally every loving empire province and most of the dwarves have armies hovering around the area who absolutely refuse to engage me but will happily sack any subjugated vassals, etc. I just can't get going. Hell, at one point I tried to create a second stack and Kislev, the dwarves, the Empire, and seemingly the entire world knew exactly where Archaon and friends were and were happily marching doomstacks right up into the northernmost Chaos wastes because SUDDENLY they want to have a fight. It's just a loving slog and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do to get ahead. I don't even know where to start. Is there a decent guide or anything ANYWHERE? I've been googling like crazy and the only things that come up are lovely PR blurbs. Making two stacks early on is pretty important because you want to get them growing as fast as possible. Pick a reliable fighter like Kholek or Sigvald and lean on them in tactical battles, they are worth way more than autoresolve gives them credit for as soon as they get a handful of levels they can beat any enemy army with just chaff infantry behind them Use the strong units your main lord started with in your new second stack to support your weaker lord/horde until they grow and can recruit their own units. Try to to access your more powerful troop options asap; chosen and chaos knights are very good at dealing with the lovely infantry stacks AI loves to build
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Jul 19, 2016 01:55
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Nanomashoes posted:Grab the horde pop increases from the blue traits I would put this up with "honest steel" for Empire as a must have trait to get the most from your faction. Are there any other absolute picks similar to these two?
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Jul 19, 2016 01:55
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Gonkish posted:I still don't think that I "get" how to play as Chaos. I'm roaming around with this stack of poo poo units, everyone outnumbers me, literally every loving empire province and most of the dwarves have armies hovering around the area who absolutely refuse to engage me but will happily sack any subjugated vassals, etc. I just can't get going. Hell, at one point I tried to create a second stack and Kislev, the dwarves, the Empire, and seemingly the entire world knew exactly where Archaon and friends were and were happily marching doomstacks right up into the northernmost Chaos wastes because SUDDENLY they want to have a fight. It's just a loving slog and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do to get ahead. I don't even know where to start. Is there a decent guide or anything ANYWHERE? I've been googling like crazy and the only things that come up are lovely PR blurbs. Don't worry about the fate of your vassals Don't gently caress around in Norsca too long Start a second Horde the first turn Demolish your marauder building when you don't need it Don't worry about infighting if you need to put your armies together defensively or offensively Beeline for the Empire and kill them while they are weak Leave Imperial Distrust factions alone and let them resettle
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Jul 19, 2016 02:06
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My problem is that by turn 10 I have two loving Kislev doomstacks in Bearsonling's Camp or whatever that place is, and if I have split off a stack that stack dies. Then they beeline for my LL's army and skullfuck it to death instantaneously while seemingly having teleportation abilities that allows for them to just loving ignore attrition and movement penalties. Like I can't even get a foothold because I just get instantly skullfucked to death by doomstacks. I mean by turn 12 I'm looking at full Kislev stacks that are of a far higher quality than however many lovely Marauders I can throw at them, I'm almost out of money (because I can't go sacking anything because I'm trying to not die all the loving time), and then if I do get the ball rolling no one will fight me at all ever until they can instantly skullfuck me and there's nothing I can seemingly do about it. 
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Jul 19, 2016 02:11
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Gonkish posted:I still don't think that I "get" how to play as Chaos. I'm roaming around with this stack of poo poo units, everyone outnumbers me, literally every loving empire province and most of the dwarves have armies hovering around the area who absolutely refuse to engage me but will happily sack any subjugated vassals, etc. I just can't get going. Hell, at one point I tried to create a second stack and Kislev, the dwarves, the Empire, and seemingly the entire world knew exactly where Archaon and friends were and were happily marching doomstacks right up into the northernmost Chaos wastes because SUDDENLY they want to have a fight. It's just a loving slog and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do to get ahead. I don't even know where to start. Is there a decent guide or anything ANYWHERE? I've been googling like crazy and the only things that come up are lovely PR blurbs. Frankly, "loving slog" is not far off the mark regardless of what you do. Chaos was by far my least favorite campaign of the 4 I've played (not dwarves). In addition to what the others said, you're making the same mistake I did which is assuming that Archeon (really his starting army) is not awful. He has a way rougher start than Sigivald and Kholek, one of which gets an end-game siege weapon and the other of which is an end-game siege weapon. Edit- Is Kislev immediately coming North to attack you unprovoked? I don't remember that happening at all. It's a little cheesy, but something else you can take advantage of early on is the AI's near-total refusal to sally forth from a besieged keep. Like, ever, even when Autoresolve puts them at 95% to win. You can literally starve full stacks to death with a few Marauders if you're willing to just hit 'End Turn' 8 or so times. Avasculous fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Jul 19, 2016 |
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Jul 19, 2016 02:12
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Gonkish posted:My problem is that by turn 10 I have two loving Kislev doomstacks in Bearsonling's Camp or whatever that place is, and if I have split off a stack that stack dies. Then they beeline for my LL's army and skullfuck it to death instantaneously while seemingly having teleportation abilities that allows for them to just loving ignore attrition and movement penalties. Like I can't even get a foothold because I just get instantly skullfucked to death by doomstacks. I mean by turn 12 I'm looking at full Kislev stacks that are of a far higher quality than however many lovely Marauders I can throw at them, I'm almost out of money (because I can't go sacking anything because I'm trying to not die all the loving time), and then if I do get the ball rolling no one will fight me at all ever until they can instantly skullfuck me and there's nothing I can seemingly do about it. Hit Kislev before they hit you. If you're going Sigvald, every settlement Kislev has except their faction capital can be sacked at the start of the game with fairly minimal casualties. Play the AI's favourite trick of sack, then pop march stance to run away, and Kislev will never catch you. Edit: don't 'split off a stack' by sending that lone Lord off somewhere on its own. Have the stack and the parent sit next to each other recruiting units for a turn or two. You can eat the attrition, it's not that bad. Fangz fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Jul 19, 2016 |
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Jul 19, 2016 02:20
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Gonkish posted:My problem is that by turn 10 I have two loving Kislev doomstacks in Bearsonling's Camp or whatever that place is, and if I have split off a stack that stack dies. Then they beeline for my LL's army and skullfuck it to death instantaneously while seemingly having teleportation abilities that allows for them to just loving ignore attrition and movement penalties. Like I can't even get a foothold because I just get instantly skullfucked to death by doomstacks. I mean by turn 12 I'm looking at full Kislev stacks that are of a far higher quality than however many lovely Marauders I can throw at them, I'm almost out of money (because I can't go sacking anything because I'm trying to not die all the loving time), and then if I do get the ball rolling no one will fight me at all ever until they can instantly skullfuck me and there's nothing I can seemingly do about it. I know getting another stack immediately is optimal but I found it makes things a lot more difficult early game if you are struggling. I don't think it's the end of the world to wait until you can at least recruit chaos warriors. My recommendation for a strong easy start is to select Kholek. After awakening Bearsonlings keep moving up along the coast and sack the poo poo out of everything while recruiting. If you get stuck you can turn around and resack those towns while you continue to get stronger, raze them after if possible but it's not essential. Kholek and his dragon ogres poo poo all over everything. It's not uncommon for units to break immediately on their charge. Get some dogs to handle all the horse bastards. I subjugated Varg and later Skaeling and only then headed south. By that stage Kholek is like level 15+ and unstoppable.
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Jul 19, 2016 02:38
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The problem with that sort of build is that you set yourself up for problems later. Your LLs are strong, sure, but replenishment is slow as hell outside Norsca so they lose usefulness later. Meanwhile letting Empire get strong creates the potential for this slog situation where you are playing whackamole with their settlements. And sacking Norsca slows down their rebuilding, making them less useful to you as allies - and it's fairly easy to make allies of them if you just focus on kicking Empire's butt.
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Jul 19, 2016 03:14
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Gonkish posted:My problem is that by turn 10 I have two loving Kislev doomstacks in Bearsonling's Camp or whatever that place is, and if I have split off a stack that stack dies. Then they beeline for my LL's army and skullfuck it to death instantaneously while seemingly having teleportation abilities that allows for them to just loving ignore attrition and movement penalties. Like I can't even get a foothold because I just get instantly skullfucked to death by doomstacks. I mean by turn 12 I'm looking at full Kislev stacks that are of a far higher quality than however many lovely Marauders I can throw at them, I'm almost out of money (because I can't go sacking anything because I'm trying to not die all the loving time), and then if I do get the ball rolling no one will fight me at all ever until they can instantly skullfuck me and there's nothing I can seemingly do about it. Let Baersonling die.
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Jul 19, 2016 03:35
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Fangz posted:The problem with that sort of build is that you set yourself up for problems later. Your LLs are strong, sure, but replenishment is slow as hell outside Norsca so they lose usefulness later. Meanwhile letting Empire get strong creates the potential for this slog situation where you are playing whackamole with their settlements. And sacking Norsca slows down their rebuilding, making them less useful to you as allies - and it's fairly easy to make allies of them if you just focus on kicking Empire's butt. Fair enough, this is just what I did to win a very hard campaign, it's probably far from optimal but I never really struggled. The amount of cash you get from sacking means you can just merge damaged units and hire more, it's not fast but you are never really in danger as your main stack is absolutely unstoppable. You only have to destroy the main factions so whack a mole isn't a huge deal with the 3 stacks you should easily be able to afford later on.
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Jul 19, 2016 03:36
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So I just beat my Dwarf Campaign Long Victory and almost wiped out the entire map(First one I chose). I had a weird game, the entire middle area empire/counts/etc were all wiped out by varg and Skeiling while I concentrated on completely demolishing the orcs to the south and then stacking my 5 armies with tons of funding to just steam roll everyone north of karak-a-karaz. What I learned: Ironbreakers have to be one of the best units in this game. Put them on guard mode, form a box, defense against all charging. Put hammerers right behind the iron breakers and charge them up after the charges.. damage dealers. Gyrocopters suck Unwinnable fights can easily be cheesed with a corner and ironbreakers and a lord spamming rally/hold the line. ***I haven't played a total war game in years and this was my beef with the old ones, how easily it is for you to cheese battles with corner tactics/wall tactics. Only made slayers for the quest and thats it. agents are the dumbest loving thing in the game and dwarves cannot assassinate anything... i think now that i finished it the "original" way, i'll maybe mod the game for no hostile agent actions.
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Jul 19, 2016 03:40
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I'm genuinely curious how they'll do a lot of the side factions. Empire has plans and a goal. Reunite the various exEmpire provinces. Fight the VC. Ally with Bretonnia and Kislev. Eventually take on Chaos. Greenskins get to fight other Orks, border humans, and Dwarves. Just keep WAAAGHing and taking whatever you can. VC is take out renegade Necromancers/Vampires, take Sylvania, then start claiming those exEmpire provinces before the Empire can. Eventually take Altdorf. Bretonnia would be what. Reclaim Bretonnia, then declare on Tilea and Estalia? Fight the Empire? Declare on the Wood Elves? What does a Bretonnia game even look like? Same with a lot of the factions. What does a Tilea or Estalia game look like? What do the Wood Elves do when they are locked between the Empire and Bretonnia? Skaven make sense, though they could also completely gently caress the game balance/setup. UnderEmpire underneath the current game board, focus on conquering the Clans, then taking the fight to the surface. Easy. High Elves/Dark Elves would need to come at the same time, but would also be pretty easy. They are built on conquering the other. Be a bit separate from the rest of the map, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. But then you have stuff like Lizardmen. Who the gently caress do the Lizardmen fight? What is their game like?
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Jul 19, 2016 03:44
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Rookersh posted:I'm genuinely curious how they'll do a lot of the side factions. Lizardmen follow the orders of the Slaan who interpret the orders left behind by the Old Ones to steer the forces of order to defeat the forces of Chaos.
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Jul 19, 2016 03:51
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So I got a waaagh going... and I wiped out thorgrim by turn 13 and destroyed the dwarfs faction two turns later. I waz bad at waaagh before and you guys were right. Now to turn south and do the same thing to the other dwarfs while my top knotz allies run wild though the badlands
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Jul 19, 2016 03:56
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The lizardmen would work like the pope in the other games where the Slann would give you missions except they would be 100% nonsensical, having you randomly fight every faction in the world
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Jul 19, 2016 03:56
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Kainser posted:The lizardmen would work like the pope in the other games where the Slann would give you missions except they would be 100% nonsensical, having you randomly fight every faction in the world Was thinking similar with the Tomb Kings tbh. Certain races have a chance to have stolen/looted artifacts, and either perform a mission against or attack.
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Jul 19, 2016 03:59
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Rookersh posted:Same with a lot of the factions. What does a Tilea or Estalia game look like? What do the Wood Elves do when they are locked between the Empire and Bretonnia? Tilea, Estalia, Kislev, etc. probably won't be added. They don't really have armies described by GW beyond a couple units, so it'd require GW or CA to invent a shitton of new stuff to give them unique army lists. If they do, Tilea would be to unite Tilea (it's technically squabbling city-states) and plunder the tombs of Nehekara while controlling a lot of resources and establishing trade routes. Estalia would be uniting Estalia and then making fat stacks off of lizard gold from Lustria. You see, Tilea is basically the Italian city-states of old, and is ruled by Merchant Princes, and Estalia are Spanish conquistadors, and big on exploring the New World. Lizardmen fight skaven and each other. Also, on Lustria are human colonies, as well as the Vampire Coast, which is a kingdom of zombie pirates ruled by a VC. And there are dark elves to the north.
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Jul 19, 2016 04:04
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tilea won't be added because their job is to be curb stomped by skaven in their opener
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Jul 19, 2016 04:05
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