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Ytlaya posted:Honestly, I don't totally understand why Sy has an expiration date. Fray is an adult who also uses the Wyvern formula, and it seems like you can stop using it at any time and just go back to normal. It would be one thing if they were still increasing his dose to "stress test" the formula, but I'm pretty sure Sy mentioned them stabilizing it some time back. Did they say his dose was stabilised? I must have completely missed it. There's a scene you haven't got to that goes into the difference between his dose and what most people take and his is something like twenty times higher. He also (vague spoilers for a later chapter) weaponises what I think is his normal dose, so I guess it's not entirely safe to just pour that much poison into your brain. Wyvern's also relatively new, so it's not like they really know the long term effects of sustained use, and you build a tolerance to it. Maybe there's an upper bound to how long you can take it for before an effective dose just melts your brain?  8.7: I guess the best you can say is that he's still pretty tilted with new-Jamie. Except everyone else went along with it and no one suggested like 'maybe we shouldn't risk getting killed or worse for the sake of Lillian's potential patronage.'
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Jul 19, 2016 03:51
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Roughly how close to done is Twig, or is it not clear how long it'll be? I haven't started it yet, because  , but I am entertained by the occasional spoilers I read.
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Jul 19, 2016 07:59
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chrisoya posted:Roughly how close to done is Twig, or is it not clear how long it'll be? I just started it (because I remember pact being a lot better when I read a few arcs at once) and there's definitely enough there that it feels more like reading a book than a web serial. Of course, I'm only on arc 7 so...
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Jul 19, 2016 12:07
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It's at arc 12 and it doesn't really feel like it's wrapping up yet to me. There's a lot of conflict that still needs some sort of resolution.
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Jul 19, 2016 12:16
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We're supposedly at least halfway through.Gitro posted:8.7: I guess the best you can say is that he's still pretty tilted with new-Jamie. Except everyone else went along with it and no one suggested like 'maybe we shouldn't risk getting killed or worse for the sake of Lillian's potential patronage.' Lillian is like, the one lamb who's probably going to survive their teens, so a lot of the focus, at least from Sy's and possibly Mary's point of view, is on her and her actual possibility of a future. Nettle Soup fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Jul 19, 2016 |
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Jul 19, 2016 15:14
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Ytlaya posted:It's not really clear why she got along with the Undersiders so much better, though. Tattletale (and maybe Bitch) I can understand, but the others not so much (she was never close with Regent and things became very awkward with Grue). It's also not clear why the Undersiders need to continue being villains post-Coil (if you can even call them that; I don't know if they actually did anything outright villainous post-Coil). Seems like it would make more sense, if they absolutely can't deal with being heroes, to be government sanctioned rogues or something. Skitter spent most of her formative time as a cape struggling with near-death experience after near-death experience with the Undersiders. By the time she'd joined the Wards, she'd dealt with The ABB, Leviathan, Coil, The S9, Noelle, Dragon (twice), the PRT, and the Wards. After that, life with The Wards must have seemed like a cakewalk, and she wasn't bonding via near-death experiences anymore. Also she had "Jack Slash is going to end the world" on her mind, and dealing with that took most of her energy.
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Jul 19, 2016 15:16
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chrisoya posted:Roughly how close to done is Twig, or is it not clear how long it'll be? Wildbow estimated it would run 'somewhere between' Worm and Pact in length. Presumably meaning story arc length and not word count. So I'd guess it is just over halfway.
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Jul 19, 2016 15:25
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Senerio posted:Skitter spent most of her formative time as a cape struggling with near-death experience after near-death experience with the Undersiders. By the time she'd joined the Wards, she'd dealt with The ABB, Leviathan, Coil, The S9, Noelle, Dragon (twice), the PRT, and the Wards. After that, life with The Wards must have seemed like a cakewalk, and she wasn't bonding via near-death experiences anymore. Also she had "Jack Slash is going to end the world" on her mind, and dealing with that took most of her energy. That makes sense (though more the "was preoccupied with the end of the world" thing, since she was getting along well with the Undersides pre-Leviathan, which was the first near-death situation). I'm curious as to why the Undersiders were still considered villains during the long time Taylor was with the Chicago Wards. There was mention of them negotiating with other groups, like Accord, and I'm trying to figure out what the gently caress those other villain groups were even doing in Brocktown if the Undersiders were negotiating them away from actual criminal activity. Are the Undersiders just villains by virtue of their past crimes and the fact they don't want to join the Protectorate (which might be the only way to absolve yourself of past crimes as a villain)? I remember Taylor negotiating some sort of peace/ceasefire with Miss Militia's Brockton Bay Protectorate, but I'm not sure if that actually means they stopped technically being villains.
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Jul 19, 2016 18:54
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Ytlaya posted:That makes sense (though more the "was preoccupied with the end of the world" thing, since she was getting along well with the Undersides pre-Leviathan, which was the first near-death situation). Probably mostly because they were shaking down people for protection money, and weren't paying taxes. They were the mob minus prostitution and the trafficking.
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Jul 19, 2016 19:01
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Ytlaya posted:That makes sense (though more the "was preoccupied with the end of the world" thing, since she was getting along well with the Undersides pre-Leviathan, which was the first near-death situation). They were literally the first people outside her father to show even the most remote concern for her well being since Emma. Also I'd put Bakuda as the first near-death situation.
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Jul 19, 2016 20:42
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Senerio posted:They were literally the first people outside her father to show even the most remote concern for her well being since Emma. Also I'd put Bakuda as the first near-death situation. Oh, forgot about Bakuda. But yeah, the main reason I think the "preoccupied with the end of the world" thing is (or should be, at least) a bigger factor is that "having other good friends" doesn't really make sense as a reason why you couldn't become friends with new people.
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Jul 19, 2016 23:12
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Ytlaya posted:That makes sense (though more the "was preoccupied with the end of the world" thing, since she was getting along well with the Undersides pre-Leviathan, which was the first near-death situation). I think it comes down to: Protectorate/heroes - people who use their powers for the benefit of the state or other organisations Rogues - people who have powers but don't really make any use of them (eg: Canary) Villains - anyone who doesn't register with the Protectorate and uses their powers for their own ends
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Jul 20, 2016 01:07
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I may just be weird here, but I think that it has more to do with how writing a million words about her interactions with the Undersiders built a strong relationship between the audience and them, and shifting that was something that we wouldn't have been happy in the short term, so he got the gang back together instead. or something like that.
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Jul 20, 2016 01:28
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Nettle Soup posted:We're supposedly at least halfway through. Yeah, but the first real direction they settled after a bit of digging on was putting Lillian and themselves in danger of death or maiming and slavery. I mean it worked and to be fair they didn't exactly know how bad it would be, but drat.
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Jul 20, 2016 04:05
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Ytlaya posted:Oh, forgot about Bakuda. I dunno about you but if my coworker was a former criminal who murdered the Pope, even once it was revealed publicly that the Pope was actually incredibly evil, I'd still keep my distance, even if they were kinda likable. Now replace the Pope with Alexandria, and there you go With Taylor's intensity the only person she appeared to bond strongly with post-defection was Golem, because of their shared goal of eliminating Jack. With the Undersiders she was self-destructing and they were the ones who stepped up to be there for her. Of course she'll trust that they'll have her back more easily and more intensely. Milky Moor posted:I think it comes down to: Heroes are pretty much capes who are beholden to an organization that's officially accountable to the government. (Note: Wards are accountable to the Youth Guard, and also I don't think are required to graduate to the Protectorate) Rogues are unaligned neutral capes Villains are pretty much right, but it's also worth noting that participation in Endbringer fights buys a lot of slack with the Protectorate, so long as the villains aren't directly killing civilians.
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Jul 20, 2016 04:40
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TeenageArchipelago posted:I may just be weird here, but I think that it has more to do with how writing a million words about her interactions with the Undersiders built a strong relationship between the audience and them, and shifting that was something that we wouldn't have been happy in the short term, so he got the gang back together instead. or something like that. While I understand story/character-wise why she ended up wanting to go back to the Undersiders, I don't understand it much from the reader's perspective. Ever since the Slaughterhouse 9 arc the Undersiders were kind of boring. Even though he had a perfectly good excuse, PTSD Grue was not a fun character (and never really recovered, at least on-"screen"), and this really messed up the Undersiders' dynamic because Grue was previously the core of the group. Regent/Imp are fun, but they don't interact that much with Taylor. Which pretty much just leaves Tattletale (and even she just ended up becoming some sort of exposition device). I think part of why I was disappointed is that I was looking forward to the development of the characters in the Chicago Wards and their relationships with Taylor, but that was mostly just skipped (literally, with the time skip). I don't know if I agree with "they kept their distance from her because of her killing Alexandria(etc)"; they seemed to be making a genuine effort to become friends with her (like the thing with pretending to have dicks in their suits), and it was their decision to have her join them in the first place.
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Jul 20, 2016 23:46
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Why yes, you can make the Undersiders look a lot worse by completely ignoring the undersider who has both the best arc and the most interesting relationship with Taylor.
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Jul 21, 2016 09:24
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Wittgen posted:Why yes, you can make the Undersiders look a lot worse by completely ignoring the undersider who has both the best arc and the most interesting relationship with Taylor. Haha, I didn't even notice I forgot Bitch (who I agree was definitely the most interesting of the Undersiders, so it's funny that I forgot her). I still feel like wildbow could have done better at making the Undersiders feel closer as a group in later (mostly post-Leviathan or maybe S9) chapters. Taylor is close with a few individual members of the group, but the rest of the group doesn't really seem to interact with each other that much.
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Jul 22, 2016 22:22
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Jesus a lot of the wildbow fanbase is insufferable. I just came across this one guy unironically saying they should make Worm into an anime (and not one of those children's anime, he made sure to note!) as well as people giving some cringe-worthy attempt at humor related to the idea of a Worm cartoon show. edit: I hope that at some point Twig goes into some more detailed history. I'm curious as to how the Crown reached its current state. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 22:06
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Ytlaya posted:Jesus a lot of the wildbow fanbase is insufferable. I just came across this one guy unironically saying they should make Worm into an anime (and not one of those children's anime, he made sure to note!) as well as people giving some cringe-worthy attempt at humor related to the idea of a Worm cartoon show. Well, yeah - Worm's fan base is built entirely around Reddit and the Spacebattles forums.
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Jul 28, 2016 22:41
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Oh man, (Twig 9.17 spoilers) I foresee Sy ending up being separated from Lillian as a result of her deeper allegiance to the Academy. He can then pursue Mauer, his true love. Though I'm curious as to how in the world any of them could make their way back to the Academy at this point. Sy and Jamie are directly responsible for killing nobles, and I really doubt that the Crown would let that fly under any circumstance.
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Jul 28, 2016 22:51
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 Not real spoilers, but enough if you're just starting I guess : Despite what they've done their, their handlers really view them as tools. Helen has, as far as everyone outside the lambs is concerned, no free will at all, and the others are much the same. Lillian is a student thrown along for the ride, Jamie is just a front for project caterpillar, Sy is a wildcard, barely controlled. I think Ashton sat that one out? I get the impression Mary is viewed along the same lines as Helen. Ah, you never mentioned Gordon! Nettle Soup fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 23:29
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Milky Moor posted:Well, yeah - Worm's fan base is built entirely around Reddit and the Spacebattles forums.
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Jul 29, 2016 02:05
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Ytlaya posted:Jesus a lot of the wildbow fanbase is insufferable. I just came across this one guy unironically saying they should make Worm into an anime (and not one of those children's anime, he made sure to note!) as well as people giving some cringe-worthy attempt at humor related to the idea of a Worm cartoon show. Funny, I thought that it might work as a cartoon for like 30 seconds after my friend linked me this theme, which fits the tone. Then I realized that was stupid.
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Jul 29, 2016 21:13
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McCrae encourages the fanbase. Some of the things he's explained on those threads I would really he'd rather never said. The bit about Endbringers being as dense if they had the mass of several galaxies? gently caress off.
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Jul 30, 2016 04:01
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His last post there was over a year and a half ago. He left. Also, really? In a story where the big bad was literally an extradimensional being which consumed every possible version of a planet for fuel, who they killed by punching through dimensions with what was essentially every doomsday weapon combined to annihilate all of that mass...your problem is that the Endbringers' material composition were outlandish? What?
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Jul 30, 2016 04:18
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It's something that grated on me, I liked Worm, no need to pick a hill to die on.
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Jul 30, 2016 04:40
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The thing that strikes me about Wildbow is that he is a godawful GM. This is good for his writing because brutal situations that require out of the box clever solutions make for fun fight scenes. It is bad for his internet posting because it leads to over-explaining with a cloud of "because I say so" hanging over everything.
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Jul 30, 2016 04:53
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Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:His last post there was over a year and a half ago. He left. No, because all of that can be explained and handwaved because it's superheroes and you can handwave things to a certain extent when you don't assign numbers and they all follow certain rules. The problem is Wildbow said that the Endbringers had this ludicrous amount of mass... which then is never reflected by the actions of anyone else in the text. Scion fires at one of the Endbringers, misses, but barely scuffs the landscape. Phir Se's just been casually storing a ridiculous amount of energy which, again, only just kind of hurts Behemoth instead of putting a great big crater in Earth. When you start trying to quantify things, you need to make sure the numbers add up. Given how serious and 'hard' Worm is when it comes to this sort of thing, it's all the more obvious when it doesn't add up. If it is left at 'Oh, the Endbringers are just immune to most powers and Scion overrides that with his laser beams' it's way less of a problem. But then he wouldn't get to see the Endbringers win every version of SB.com Versus debates or Reddit Who Would Win debate when they're invoked. Wittgen posted:The thing that strikes me about Wildbow is that he is a godawful GM. This is good for his writing because brutal situations that require out of the box clever solutions make for fun fight scenes. It is bad for his internet posting because it leads to over-explaining with a cloud of "because I say so" hanging over everything. I asked him once to explain how Armsmaster EMP'd Skitter based on the sequence of events, what Tattletale says about it (which doesn't align to Skitter's earlier PoV at all), and how we've seen his EMP tech work as Armsmaster prior to that point (and later, Defiant). Just because, in light of a close reading of it all, it seemed pretty clear that Tattletale was lying, but it was a lie that everyone would willing believe because they dislike Armsmaster. His response was basically "Well, it happened because Flechette became a villain." Basically, yes, when he can't over-explain based on things that aren't actually in the text, he resorts to "because I say so". I didn't hang around the Reddit much but basically moved away from it entirely when he'd respond to people with this indignation that people are criticizing things he has written because he just gives up so much time interacting with the fans and answering questions and, gosh, isn't he just doing everyone a great service.
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Jul 30, 2016 05:23
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Ytlaya posted:Jesus a lot of the wildbow fanbase is insufferable. I just came across this one guy unironically saying they should make Worm into an anime (and not one of those children's anime, he made sure to note!) as well as people giving some cringe-worthy attempt at humor related to the idea of a Worm cartoon show. while I could see an animated worm potentially working, there is no loving way an anime one would e: that said Twig is the one that needs to become a movie/show
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Jul 30, 2016 07:57
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Worm will never, ever work in a visual medium because a major part of its presentation is that you're getting things from the perspective of a single person with an enormous amount of sensory input from the bugs, and how that perspective gradually changes over the course of the story. There is no possible way to quantify that in a show/movie without sacrificing all of the reasons to want to watch something in the first place. Text can describe the effect of Taylor's power to someone incapable of themselves processing sensory information from a multitude of angles and places, audio+video would just overwhelm and confuse anyone trying to get anything meaningful out of it. Now if you wanted a show that's just a third person perspective of the events in Worm, that could potentially be something interesting, but at that point it's not Worm at all.
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Jul 30, 2016 15:33
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Milky Moor posted:No, because all of that can be explained and handwaved because it's superheroes and you can handwave things to a certain extent when you don't assign numbers and they all follow certain rules. Not that your general point is wrong, but these two specific oddities do have (potential) explanations. Phir Se's whole deal was one-way portals through space-time. One portal exit was placed at Behemoth's feet facing upward, with the surroundings being protected by Eidolon's force-field, allowing the energy to only travel upwards through the magic of superpower bullshit As for Scion, don't we hear things about him tuning his light to have or ignore specific effects in the Entity intermissions? It seems reasonable that he would be able to set them to "Effect Endbringers Specifically." But yeah, the numbers are silly and the story itself benefits from him not having shoehorned them in.
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Aug 1, 2016 04:48
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Also wouldn't Endbringers have the relevant gravitational pull if they had the mass of several galaxies? I agree that Twig would translate to television much better than Worm. There isn't really anything in it requiring an extreme level of special effects (except for possibly the appearance of the towns, etc). My main concern would be how to translate the parts where Sy is having to quickly think about a solution to some situation. The only way to really do that would be to have time slow down/freeze and show Sy's thoughts, but that would look kind of cheesy and dumb in practice.
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Aug 1, 2016 19:51
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Endbringer mass is stored in other dimensions and pulled through to replace damaged mass. Not unlike entities I guess. Probably not what he aimed for but it is the solution I'm working with. In general though, McCraes biggest problem is quantification. Numbers usually don't really add up and somewhat break suspension of disbelief. Endbringer mass and population numbers are two that come to mind. Still one of my favourite writers though.
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Aug 1, 2016 22:43
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Ytlaya posted:Also wouldn't Endbringers have the relevant gravitational pull if they had the mass of several galaxies? Cheesy and dumb you say? 
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Aug 2, 2016 01:19
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Wittgen posted:The thing that strikes me about Wildbow is that he is a godawful GM. This is good for his writing because brutal situations that require out of the box clever solutions make for fun fight scenes. It is bad for his internet posting because it leads to over-explaining with a cloud of "because I say so" hanging over everything.
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Aug 2, 2016 10:48
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Namarrgon posted:Endbringer mass is stored in other dimensions and pulled through to replace damaged mass. Not unlike entities I guess. Probably not what he aimed for but it is the solution I'm working with. This is basically what I'm getting it. If the end result is handwaved with 'shard bullshit', then there's no need to throw around huge numbers that never mean anything because of 'shard bullshit', then just slam that reasoning down first. The numbers exist for fan discussions about who is the most hardcore and only that reason.
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Aug 2, 2016 10:54
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chrisoya posted:Sounds like someone read PRT Quest. No, but I read the transcripts of some game he ran in wormverse Europe. Half of his players died in their introductory one shots. It was appalling.
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Aug 2, 2016 14:13
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Wittgen posted:No, but I read the transcripts of some game he ran in wormverse Europe. Half of his players died in their introductory one shots. It was appalling. That's a weird way to spell 'amazing'. I would play in that dumb group so fast. The trick to that kind of campaign is just to always have a backup character ready.
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Aug 3, 2016 04:46
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Pavlov posted:That's a weird way to spell 'amazing'. I would play in that dumb group so fast. The trick to that kind of campaign is just to always have a backup character ready. If this was classic D&D or even a world game, sure. But this was a custom system where everything worked counter to high lethality. Character creation was involved, so making another character was hard. The system felt pretty vague about what you could do with skills and powers while also using a lot of dice rolls with fairly heavy variance in results. It's the kind of system that you really need to be used to if you're going to use your tools effectively. At least, that was my impression. To be so lethal in the very first session with no chance for the players to get used to the system or the characters they had put time into making? I think that's lovely, even if you are into harsh games.
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Aug 3, 2016 07:16
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