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Annnnnd done with my short for loopdeloop. I read the rules and didn't see anything against posting it elsewhere before it shows up on their site. Done in Opentoonz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_0ofTy5xDo An Ounce of Gold fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Jul 14, 2016 |
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Jul 14, 2016 01:10
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Do you guys know of any good websites that studies the 12 principles more thoroughly rather than just offering a basic overview description of them?
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Jul 14, 2016 23:52
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HelloWinter posted:Do you guys know of any good websites that studies the 12 principles more thoroughly rather than just offering a basic overview description of them? The illusion of life gives the most thorough rundown I've read. Maybe you can find it online? Once I get off project I'm starting a website teaching people how to animate. Is there anything you want to know specifically? Maybe I can help 
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Jul 15, 2016 01:34
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bitmap posted:The illusion of life gives the most thorough rundown I've read. Maybe you can find it online? Ahh, thank you!! I ought to buy that book someday, now might be the time for it. That would be terribly awesome, bitmap! Specifically, I'm trying to learn more about incorporating motion arcs in my animation. I've looked into Richard William's Survival Kit book about the subject, but it's still unclear to me how to efficiently plan out an arc (notably figure eights) into an animation without the involvement of trial and error. Would drawing the curve path/figure eight help?
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Jul 15, 2016 01:52
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HelloWinter posted:Ahh, thank you!! I ought to buy that book someday, now might be the time for it. oh 100%. when planning and designing motion its super important to draw out the path of the arc of any sweeping motion. Drawing the shape of a trajectory helps you plan not only the path, which ensures a clean and pleasing direction of movement, but also the weight or perspective of what is moving- does it need to recede and approach camera convincingly? Does it need to change mass at any point of the motion? do you need to distort or smear to get the energy across better? Planning the shape of the exact sweep that something will move through is super useful . For example, I'm making some spots for cartoon network now, using the powerpuff girls. They need to shoot around really fast on really specific paths, zooming away and toward camera. Once I get the important keys down the next thing I'm doing is trying to find a pleasing drawing of the shape that they're going to move through. bitmap fucked around with this message at 10:59 on Jul 15, 2016 |
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Jul 15, 2016 02:14
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Hmm, I guess my cartoon isn't good enough or something... I was skipped on Twitter and Facebook and comments aren't on for my submission even though it's been posted on their site.  Oh well. Are there are short screenings/contests for animators besides Loopdeloop? That was my vector practice in OT. I want to do a raster one next. Get my sea legs. An Ounce of Gold fucked around with this message at 12:49 on Jul 15, 2016 |
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Jul 15, 2016 12:42
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HelloWinter posted:Ahh, thank you!! I ought to buy that book someday, now might be the time for it. HelloWinter posted:Do you guys know of any good websites that studies the 12 principles more thoroughly rather than just offering a basic overview description of them? http://brianlemay.com/Pages/animationschool/animationschool.html
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Jul 15, 2016 14:01
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An Ounce of Gold posted:Oh well. Are there are short screenings/contests for animators besides Loopdeloop? That was my vector practice in OT. I want to do a raster one next. Get my sea legs. http://www.11secondclub.com/
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Jul 15, 2016 18:00
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neonnoodle posted:Also you will probably want to indicate the spacing on the arc when you draw it by way of making little tick-marks along the path look at this pro fuckin advice An Ounce of Gold posted:Hmm, I guess my cartoon isn't good enough or something... I was skipped on Twitter and Facebook and comments aren't on for my submission even though it's been posted on their site. skipped? how do you mean?
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Jul 15, 2016 19:06
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Quest For Glory II posted:11 second club is another one, you get an audio clip and a month to animate to it and then everyone votes and the winner gets mentored. Expect harsh, perhaps blunt/short criticism from peers (sometimes there's so many submissions that people will just quickly flip through and post unhelpful things like "bad" and "i like it") Ah yeah. Thanks. I've seen people do this and wondered what it was for. I might give it a try. bitmap posted:look at this pro fuckin advice I just meant on social media and comments. For some reason they skipped over me and didn't post my loop on their social media pages. They went from the one before me to the water bucket loop that was after mine. They also have comments turned off. On their main tumbler page on the .org site you can see everyone's comments and shares except mine. I just figured something was wrong with mine since I shot an email a day ago with no response. Or maybe they have some anti fire thing. Or of course I was just forgotten by a simple mistake. It's a little of a bummer though because I was looking forward to seeing peoples' responses to it and now even if they fix it I've missed that first reaction. I accidently embedded it to autostart though. I won't do that again if I do the next one because it's annoying to go to the loop site and hear mine playing from down the page. E: side question, does anyone ever live stream the screenings? I'm a bit too poor to attend one myself, but it would be cool to see/hear them watching. EDIT the 2nd: Alright, someone that runs their social stuff may have read this because shortly after whining here I was retweeted and facebooked (is that a verb?). Though I still have no ability to see peoples' reactions on their main site. Hey, 2 of 3 fixed is good! Thanks if it was someone here and thanks anyway to the universe if it wasn't and it was just a happy coincidence. I was getting worried that my loop was just poo poo in some way! An Ounce of Gold fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Jul 16, 2016 |
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Jul 15, 2016 23:42
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Re: the 12 principles again -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haa7n3UGyDc This is a pretty good video series that explains each one. Also, I'm a strong believer in Mike Nguyen's mystical approach to animation. His writing on animation is somewhat opaque. Part of that is language-based (he's not a native speaker of English). But it's also because he write about the process from an intuitive perspective rather than a strictly technical one. Richard Williams was a protege of Milt Kahl, and Kahl's attitude toward everything was supposedly pretty analytical. As a result, Williams has mastered 11 of the 12 principles but has never really understood the last one: APPEAL. Appeal is probably the most important one! It's the only one that isn't a "technique." It's all emotional. It's all about empathy. You can animate with technical perfection (as Williams has many times) but if the audience doesn't give a poo poo, you've lost. You can practically stuff the other 11 principles in the trash bin if you have a handle on Appeal. /rant
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Jul 16, 2016 15:07
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The principle that always struck me as odd is ''solid drawing''. It seems rather obvious, like saying that to be a good writer you need to have solid writing.
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Jul 16, 2016 17:21
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Nah it's not that kind of solidity. It means having a sense of volume/heft, instead of drawing things merely as flat shapes. You can't move stuff in abstract space unless you construct them.
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Jul 16, 2016 17:32
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richard williams also thinks gay people walk funny and is really mad that people listen to podcasts/music when they work. that's the stuff that stuck with me after reading the toolkit well that and the 5,000 pages of walk cycle examples
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Jul 16, 2016 17:37
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Yeah and most of those walks are just completely stupid and impractical. They're technical exercises. There's almost nothing in that book about dealing with camera angles!! So much material is just a flat proscenium layout, which is useless for the majority of TV and cinematic animation. The only example of a full shot in the whole book (the guy picking up chalk and writing on a chalkboard) is a 4-second fixed camera side view, not the sort of thing you'd see in any film or TV show made in the past 30 years. A large amount of TV-level animation is going to be built around medium shots and dialogue, as well as organizing the characters into a believable background environment through good layout. Cinematic-type animation skills these days involve a lot of fast cuts and camera angles. There's also a lot of complex layout challenges in action sequences where the character has to get from point A to point B through the scenery in perspective. The Animator's Survival Kit has little to no information about any of that.
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Jul 16, 2016 18:04
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neonnoodle posted:Nah it's not that kind of solidity. It means having a sense of volume/heft, instead of drawing things merely as flat shapes. You can't move stuff in abstract space unless you construct them. Maybe it is because I work in games but I found the ASK to be very helpful, especially since I used to make tons of walk cycles. That, and Edweard Muybridge's books for reference. I can see how the ASK would be deficient in more composition oriented processes though.
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Jul 16, 2016 19:35
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Quest For Glory II posted:and is really mad that people listen to podcasts/music when they work thank you for saying this, 'cause it's been a back of the mind worry for me ever since I read that book that I shouldn't be doing this.
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Jul 16, 2016 22:52
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Quest For Glory II posted:richard williams also thinks gay people walk funny I agree that his book isn't as amazing or comprehensive as some people make it out to be but it doesn't seem like you learned what valuable lessons it does contain if "gays walk funny" and the music comment were your big takeaways.
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Jul 17, 2016 09:15
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I mean of course it has use, but I am going to make fun of it anyway because people should rely on more than one book and I ended up having to look elsewhere for pointers on FX animation and secondary/overlapping action. Honestly that there's only a couple of pages dedicated to the latter is, frankly, awful, because that's such a big thing. Instead there's, and this is not an exaggeration, 98 pages on walk/run cycles. Also... I dunno, maybe this is nitpicking but weight, flexibility, secondary action, etc all come later in the book than the walk/runs.. shouldn't they go first?? Maybe that's not a big deal if people are hopping all around the book.
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Jul 17, 2016 10:18
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the animators survival kit does not contain all human knowledge of animation but, come on, it's a great book. It was written by a justifiably crotchety old autist who saw the defining difference between good and bad animation as the amount of perfectly precise frames between keys and who spent 30 years drawing a movie on paper by himself. He was born 300 years ago from a rock on a mountain and expressed old person attitudes regarding non-heteronormativity to make a good point about walk cycle readability. furthermore,
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Jul 17, 2016 14:36
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An Ounce of Gold posted:Thanks if it was someone here and thanks anyway to the universe if it wasn't and it was just a happy coincidence. I'm defs the only goon even loosely associated with the running of loopdeloop. Happy coincidence!
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Jul 17, 2016 14:38
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bitmap posted:I'm defs the only goon even loosely associated with the running of loopdeloop. Happy coincidence! Pfft lame. Then how am I supposed to blame you for still not letting people see the likes, comments, and reblogs from the main .org for my video. 
An Ounce of Gold fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Jul 17, 2016 |
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Jul 17, 2016 17:08
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Koramei posted:thank you for saying this, 'cause it's been a back of the mind worry for me ever since I read that book that I shouldn't be doing this. I did this in college because the book said so, and I'm glad I started listening to music/podcasts once I graduated. Animating in silence for hours in a lonely bedroom ain't no way to live. It's still a great resource, just not the be-all end-all.
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Jul 18, 2016 15:29
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SRM posted:I did this in college because the book said so, and I'm glad I started listening to music/podcasts once I graduated. Animating in silence for hours in a lonely bedroom ain't no way to live. It's still a great resource, just not the be-all end-all. With this in mind anyone else want to share what they listen to and why while they are animating? I'm asking because I find so many podcasts boring. Maybe there's a diamond in the roughd I missed out there. Doug Loves Movies: He's not the best host, but it's one of the only podcasts that plays games with a live audience. Comedy Bang Bang: Bits. Comedians do bits and more comedians come on doing other bits. The bits mix. Sometimes it's genius in it's stupidity. My requirement is that it has to be funny. I'm usually laughing all day while working. That's probably why you got a mad clown out of me for Loop de Loop. 
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Jul 18, 2016 15:35
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I mean that's gonna vary hugely person to person, what your interests are and how liable you are to get distracted. For me it depends on how much attention I have to give to what I'm doing. If I'm doing research or having to think about complex perspective etc I actually often do just sit there in silence or just with some ambient music in the background- I find if I listen to a podcast, it'll have me constantly wasting time rewinding the thing 'cause I could only pay half attention to it. When I don't need to think so hard I often listen to audiobooks and history podcasts, but I do find that gets me wanting to draw what I'm listening to rather than what I'm supposed to be drawing. e: actually, on the rare occasions I have some foresight, I try to use that to my advantage- last month I did a series of drawings of Afghan and Himalayan poo poo, and listening to local music really helped me get in the mood for that. Not always applicable though.
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Jul 18, 2016 18:04
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An Ounce of Gold posted:With this in mind anyone else want to share what they listen to and why while they are animating? I'm asking because I find so many podcasts boring. Maybe there's a diamond in the roughd I missed out there. I've been listening to this lately: http://www.idontevenownatelevision.com/ It's a podcast about bad books and the hosts are really entertaining. Their episodes on Doom: Knee Deep in the Dead and the Led Zeppelin biopic were hysterical.
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Jul 18, 2016 19:31
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The Flop House Podcast was my go to for a while but now I've listened to every episode two or three times, so I've had to take a break. http://www.flophousepodcast.com/ The fans of that podcast are great and make things like this, which is animation related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jgga9jeZxGo I've recently been listening to The Incomparable, especially the episodes where the hosts talk about sci-fi books. But that show isn't very funny, and it can be a bit boring after a while.
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Jul 19, 2016 02:28
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I haven't been keeping up, what's the general consensus on the Flash rebirth now? Apparently they "fixed" the brush tool but it doesn't look much different to me?
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Jul 20, 2016 02:43
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rear end posted:I haven't been keeping up, what's the general consensus on the Flash rebirth now? Apparently they "fixed" the brush tool but it doesn't look much different to me? I haven't used it, but can they really compare to TvPaint, Toonboom, Opentoonz, or Blender right now? I used to use Flash exclusively for web animations, but it just fell off a long time ago and never caught up.
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Jul 20, 2016 03:25
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rear end posted:I haven't been keeping up, what's the general consensus on the Flash rebirth now? Apparently they "fixed" the brush tool but it doesn't look much different to me? The pen tool is now modeled after Illustrator's, and you can add illustrator-like stroke effects (ink blotches, etc.). The brush tool is still the same, which is OK with me because it always worked better for me than Illustrator's blob brush for drawing. Stability-wise, it seems better but the old Flash quirks are still there and I don't know why they haven't been fixed (ghost points showing up after they've been deleted, certain shapes randomly disappearing when you copy and paste, and my personal favorite of redrawing a curve with 15 vector points after you created it with just 2, among others). Overall I give it a C+, it's improved in the last couple of versions but a lot of holdovers from earlier versions are keeping it from being truly great unless you have a lot of experience in how it works.
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Jul 20, 2016 11:11
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Are there any authoritative books or study materials intended specifically for Maya/computer animation? I've been devouring Illusions of Life and Animator's Survival Kit, and to a certain extent I can animate 3d figures based on each section and compare them to the examples for weaknesses, but so much of the seminal study material seems to rely on solid draftsmanship and the ability to deform the shape of your drawing in ways that you can't do to game models that I feel I'm missing out.
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Jul 24, 2016 03:59
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Thanks for all the suggestions on podcasts. I made a list and will start checking them out on our next project. In other news, my girlfriend posted her short loop to Loopdeloop and was also skipped on twitter and facebook. Sigh... I was contacted back by the person that is running it and was told that if you embed a vimeo autostart then it messes with the code. She posted hers as a regular link and it still got skipped. When skipped on social media it also hides all of the likes and reblogs on their tumbler site. We are getting no feedback. I'm a bit discourage to be honest. I was hoping to see a little feedback for our vector cutouts (it's the first time she's ever tried to animate ANYTHING). It's like being a stand up comedian but the audience is in another room... Sorry, just felt like venting and you guys are the only ones I know of that know what loopdeloop is (because I live in Michigan and people are confused you can animate on computers nowadays). bitmap I can blame you right? Like, if I NEED something to blame and the universe isn't working.
An Ounce of Gold fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Jul 26, 2016 |
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Jul 26, 2016 15:43
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Omi no Kami posted:Are there any authoritative books or study materials intended specifically for Maya/computer animation? I've been devouring Illusions of Life and Animator's Survival Kit, and to a certain extent I can animate 3d figures based on each section and compare them to the examples for weaknesses, but so much of the seminal study material seems to rely on solid draftsmanship and the ability to deform the shape of your drawing in ways that you can't do to game models that I feel I'm missing out. Keith Lango's website has some good tutorials on CG animation. If you're doing CG animation and want to apply more classical approaches you should get a better rig like the Malcolm rig which has a lot of sub-controllers for shape adjustments. But in CG, shape adjustments with offsets are the fun polish on top of solid body mechanics and a sense of weight which is one of the hardest things for people to get. And you can still do some good acting without very polished controls with proper timing and accents. But as a beginner you definitely want to start by getting a handle on body mechanics and weight. I've been a professional CG animator for 2 years and I still think half my body mechanics shots look barely passable.
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Jul 26, 2016 22:27
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Ccs posted:Keith Lango's website has some good tutorials on CG animation. If you're doing CG animation and want to apply more classical approaches you should get a better rig like the Malcolm rig which has a lot of sub-controllers for shape adjustments. But in CG, shape adjustments with offsets are the fun polish on top of solid body mechanics and a sense of weight which is one of the hardest things for people to get. And you can still do some good acting without very polished controls with proper timing and accents. Oh you're right, he has some really useful pointers, thanks! I definitely know what you mean about weight and mechanics... we can use joint constraints to help a bit, at least by preventing us from overpowering a joint or rotating a limb in a weird fashion, but what's really been giving me fits is getting the timing down. I'm making animations for a game, so a lot of times gameplay will drive art; if I'm animating a punch, I generally want the arm to be fully extended in the "hit" frame within 3-5 frames after the button is pressed, simply because that timing feels really good to most players. That doesn't give me a great deal of time to show anticipation and weight transfer, and when you have such a small number of frames to convey visual information in, I find that small problems in the motion become magnified.
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Jul 27, 2016 01:23
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Yeah game animation is a separate beast because the feeling of antic comes from the player pressing the button too. Look up the GDC talk on animation in Skull Girls, the lead animator talks a lot about how they cut down lots of frames on animations over the course of the project by realizing what poses absolutely needed to be there to convey the feeling, the and eliminated the rest.
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Jul 27, 2016 04:30
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An Ounce of Gold posted:bitmap I can blame you right? Like, if I NEED something to blame and the universe isn't working. I'll take it!
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Jul 28, 2016 18:12
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the loopdeloop show is just a thing or an opportunity in a sea of potential infinite things and/or opportunites. Never run to catch a bus, there'll always be another one.
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Jul 31, 2016 19:35
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bitmap posted:well I'm just keen as mustard to try this out THIS looks great. https://vimeo.com/channels/greasepencil/173325517
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Aug 1, 2016 13:40
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An Ounce of Gold posted:Annnnnd done with my short for loopdeloop. I read the rules and didn't see anything against posting it elsewhere before it shows up on their site. Hey just fyi I was at the sydney loopdeloop screening and yours got some decent laughs. I just thought you would like to know that.
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Aug 3, 2016 12:44
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babychop posted:Hey just fyi I was at the sydney loopdeloop screening and yours got some decent laughs. I just thought you would like to know that. What makes you think that? (ps I love you)
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Aug 3, 2016 21:38
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