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Which non-Power of the Daleks story would you like to see an episode found from?
This poll is closed.
Marco Polo 36 20.69%
The Myth Makers 10 5.75%
The Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve 45 25.86%
The Savages 2 1.15%
The Smugglers 2 1.15%
The Highlanders 45 25.86%
The Macra Terror 21 12.07%
Fury from the Deep 13 7.47%
Total: 174 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
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jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum

Astroman posted:

Oh I didn't know that existed whelp there goes my money thanks jivjov! :downs:


Literally the only thing that has kept me from poverty is the fact that they don't let you buy new stories in-app

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CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

Have fun!

jivjov posted:

Literally the only thing that has kept me from poverty is the fact that they don't let you buy new stories in-app

"Sweetie, you pay your credit card every month, right?"

"Yes."

"But you're always close to the credit limit."

"Yes."

"Why?"

"...hey, here's a copy of the latest Torchwood release for your trip to Florida!"

Big Finish - helping my wife get her John Barrowman fix between conventions.

cargohills
Apr 18, 2014

2house2fly posted:

I think it would be cool to have a two-doctor episode where Capaldi meets up with Smith and does the smug "oh man you have no idea what's going to happen to you" with him because he assumes it's his past self, but then at the end he regenerates into Smith and it turns out it was actually his future self the whole time. Making him regenerate into Smith again would he trivial to hand wave away, have him be kidnapped by a rogue time lord for an experiment or something.

That would in fact be incredibly stupid and dumb.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

cargohills posted:

That would in fact be incredibly stupid and dumb.

Yup. New actor, new character, new ideas, please.

Although Matt Smith can come back to do multi-Doc specials whenever. Also McGann.

Cruel Rose
May 27, 2010

saaave gotham~
come on~
DO IT, BATMAN
FUCKING BATMAN I FUCKING HATE YOU

Dr. Gene Dango MD posted:

Are there any good Second Doctor Big Finish audios?

Helicon Prime, The Selachian Gambit, The Jigsaw War, and the Early Adventures stuff are all great.

Actually, his Destiny of the Doctor story was real fun too.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

cargohills posted:

That would in fact be incredibly stupid and dumb.

Gloriously so.

cargohills
Apr 18, 2014

No.

Mortanis
Dec 28, 2005

It's your father's lightsaber. This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight.
College Slice
I'd be happier if they did some Smith seasons but billed it as "The Lost Eleventh Adventures" or something and it's just more stories set during his time then an inexplicable regeneration back into him, but even then I'd rather take new Doctors over old Doctors. As much as I like all the modern Who Doctors I think I'd rather see forward progress on new and interesting people taking up the role rather than revisit.

Except McGann. I want a season with him.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
I'd be up for more TV movies with McGann, if nothing else.

cargohills
Apr 18, 2014

McGann is the only Doctor who I'd be happy to see return on his own, because he was completely shafted. He deserves much more than he got.

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001


I see no reason to bring back old actors outside of special multiDoctor episodes since we have Big Finish for new stories with old Doctors, and we can have new Doctors on tv. Win Win in my book.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

by Fluffdaddy

Astroman posted:

I see no reason to bring back old actors outside of special multiDoctor episodes since we have Big Finish for new stories with old Doctors, and we can have new Doctors on tv. Win Win in my book.

I wouldn't mind bringing back Patrick or Pertwee

Chairman Mao
Apr 24, 2004

The Chinese Communist Party is the core of leadership of the whole Chinese people. Without this core, the cause of socialism cannot be victorious.

Cruel Rose posted:

The Jigsaw War

This one's great, one of the best Companion Chronicles.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Short Synopsis: Alien ninjas defend their copyright.

Long Synopsis: When a UNIT scientist stops reporting in, Kate Stewart discovers he has disappeared and now aliens, big business and Government Ministers are all aiming to get their hands on the fruits of his research. UNIT comes under attack and the world itself is threatened with destruction.

What's Good:
  • Kate's competence. For the first time since The Power of Three and a few odd parts of Day of the Doctor, Kate comes across as the competent, sensible and self-assured leader of UNIT she was intended to be. No matter what the story throws at her (and it throws a lot!) Kate is forever taking it in her stride, dealing with the situation and turning things around. Best of all it doesn't come across as her just being effortlessly perfect, she recognizes the danger they're in but keeps a level head thanks to her experience, and when she CAN'T talk her way out of a situation the faith she demonstrates in her team is justified when they pull through for her because she HAS turned them into a team and taught them the value of thinking outside of the box. There are several references to the problems she has encountered both within and without UNIT due to her pushing for an emphasis on scientific research over military action and this plays out throughout the story. She has to overcome efforts to undermine her or push UNIT in a different direction, and again and again it is demonstrated that her way of running UNIT is superior because it actually allows for adaptation and improvisation. By the end of the story where she is put into the power of the main antagonist, she maintains an air of complete and relaxed authority that feels earned, endlessly frustrating her nemesis who keeps pointing out how outclassed and powerless Kate is but completely failing to shake her confidence. There is in particular one scene that really stands out, where Kate is visited in Geneva by a Government Minister who completely belittles her, puts her in her place and makes it clear he is the guy in charge.... only for her to calmly, smoothly and completely undercut him, put him in HIS place and leave him humiliated. He isn't a strawman though, and she doesn't just get the best of him because that's what is written in the script - every moment feels earned, we've had Kate's place in the hierarchy of UNIT established and how that related to the UK Government, and we know this Minister is coming at things from an entirely ulterior motive. Kate has already rumbled his game and uses his arrival and so-called authority as confirmation of her suspicions, and it becomes clear that his attitude is entirely based on fear of exposure and he hasn't got a leg to stand on, and she knows it.

    Also, just as an aside, for the first time in what feels like forever the story doesn't harp on or call undue attention to the Brigadier. There are two references to him in the entire story, and both feel completely natural. A character complains to another that Kate is even more trouble than her father could be, another mentions off-hand to Kate,"I knew your father, good man" and.... that's it. Kate is firmly established enough now (and was before this) that the writers no longer seem to feel compelled to ram Kate's parentage down our throats.

  • The clear division between episodes. Each episode of the story feels like it's own contained thing while still flowing smoothly together into a greater whole. My experience with Big Finish's big recent releases show this is something they have become better at and it's shown to good effect here. Episode 1 is all about setting the stage, revealing the mystery, the major players and the initial threat. Episode 2 takes place in Geneva where the strands of the mystery begin to come together, putting the UNIT team outside of their normal element and showing how they deal with an external threat and watch out for each other - there is no I in team for this group. Episode 3 puts them firmly back on home soil for a slight deviation on the classic Base-Under-Siege format, as the alien menace attacks their Tower of London base and we get to see how Kate's team handles this when they're so clearly outmatched, forced to fall back again and again as they're overwhelmed.... but always with a Plan B in mind. Episode 4 wraps everything up, tying together every plot point but also holding up as its own individual story and ending with a nice little post-climax epilogue to wrap up any loose ends. Every time I finished an episode I felt excited to hear what happened next but also like I had been given a satisfying story in its own right, something I could just listen to by itself.

  • A manageable cast. UNIT: Extinction introduced a large cast and didn't quite manage to give them all the time they needed for development - Josh and Sam in particular felt like they were essentially the same character. Happily things are pruned down here, concentrating on a core main cast of Kate, Osgood and Josh, with Sam only appearing in the fourth episode by which point there feels like there is room for him. The dynamic between all three is good, though I still don't quite buy the romantic tension that is supposed to be present between Osgood and Josh (in fact there is a much more believable burgeoning relationship between Osgood and another character who is killed halfway through the story). While the extended cast is still quite large, they spaced out well enough that the story doesn't feel cluttered, everything is able to hang comfortably off the framework of the main cast which is just large enough to allow for a manageable variety of combinations.

What's Not:

  • Orientalism? Others may disagree, but listening to the story I got a very uncomfortable sense of Orientalism from the alien antagonists. The "Tangobushi" are essentially alien ninjas who rush about hissing, blindly following orders and committing suicide when they fail to achieve their goals. Their leader/spokesman talks about his mystic powers that come about from a combination of technology and spirituality, speaking arrogantly of his superior culture before slowly coming to the realization that the humans have potential and perhaps there is much he can learn from them. I really cringed while listening, it feels like something that belongs more in a 1970s or 80s production, and listening to the behind the scenes stuff they do openly discuss their (noble!) intentions to play off the sense of the aliens having an Eastern influence, though somewhere along the way they seemed to lose their original intention of tying in to the "Ancient Aliens inspired our culture" theme. Clearly they intended to paint the Tangobushi and their parent race (an off-shoot of the "Extinct" species revived in The Diary of River Song) as massively advanced and beyond 21st Century humanity, but they end up coming across as stagnant and short-sighted and the Eastern theme feels more like "other"izing Asians as alien and potentially dangerous. It's nowhere near as bad as the yellow-face make-up used in The Talons of Weng Chiang but it still feels pretty out of place in 2016.

  • A disposable supporting cast. While the core cast is well handled, and to a lesser extent so are the main antagonists (at least the human ones), the supporting cast is frustratingly disposable. Characters appear and have a large part to play in one particular episode but are then unceremoniously removed (often fatally) because they're not excess to requirements. An old school friend of Osgood's plays a prominent part and there is some interesting stuff going on with his paranoia as well as the suggestion of romantic tension between the two, and a subplot is set up of Osgood bringing him into UNIT on the scientific team.... and then he's killed off and apart from a brief sentence he's completely forgotten about in spite of his supposed close connection/history with Osgood. An American General set up as a possible antagonist only to become an ardent supporter of Kate's helps develop the internal politics element of the story but then the writers seemed to realize that other things that would happen in later episodes wouldn't make much sense if he was still around (the Government Minister sets up a false narrative to try and remove Kate from the picture, getting the support of military-minded elements within UNIT's top brass) so they quickly get rid of him. A mercenary group is introduced early in the story in order to prevent UNIT from just immediately solving the problem they were facing, get talked up for their professionalism/skill/danger and considered every bit the equl of UNIT.... but then disappear until the final story when they're seemingly just there to be cannon-fodder.

Final Thoughts:

UNIT: Shutdown is a solid listen. Big Finish has learned since Extinction how to best handle a larger cast so that the story doesn't become unwieldy, and the pacing is basically on point. But while it does great things with the main cast (in particular Kate Stewart) the entire story is unfortunately hobbled by the inclusion of some really unsettling (but obviously unintentional) ethnic stereotyping/otherization. For every good part, every thrilling bit of action or clever bit of politicking or tight piece of plotting it's undercut by the meditating, spiritual, deliberate speaking Dokan and his "my Tangobushi" bringing to mind ethnic stereotypes from a bygone era. The supporting cast is strong for individual episodes but they're quickly removed from the action which makes them feel not only disposable but rather pointless, taking up time that could have gone to other central characters. It's well worth a listen, especially if you enjoyed Extinction, and shows a clear improvement in terms of trimming the fat and improving the pacing, so if you found that story perhaps a little over cluttered this is far more focused. Having well established the main cast and their relationships now, I am really looking forward to the follow-up story and not only because it features the Silence - the work has been done on introducing and developing the cast, the organization and the world that they live in and now Big Finish can focus on playing around in that world. So far they're 2-for-2 on UNIT releases and I'm looking forward to the third.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."
Do they actually have two Osgoods in these, or are they pre-DotD?

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

The_Doctor posted:

Do they actually have two Osgoods in these, or are they pre-DotD?

I'm still not entirely clear on where these stories fit in the timeline. There's a brief bit where the guy Osgood is trying to recruit gets to see her memories and sees (and we hear) the TARDIS and "a bloke in a bowtie" that she quickly shuts down. But there's no indication whether this is before or after Day of the Doctor and no mention of Zygons at all. The aliens they're fighting definitely seem to believe Osgood is a human but I've never been entirely clear on exactly how complete a Zygon transformation is, whether it would fool even hyper-advanced scanning etc.

In any case there's only one Osgood we hear in the story.

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible



UNIT: Extinction took place before Day, so I'd assume this one does too.

Small Strange Bird
Sep 22, 2006

Merci, chaton!
One of the side-effects of having a toddler is that CBeebies tends to be on a lot to keep them occupied while you're doing other household stuff, and a show I keep seeing is Tree-Fu Tom. I thought that Tom sounded like he was voiced by a pitch-shifted woman, so looked on IMDb out of curiosity.

Turns out Tom is voiced by Sophie Aldred. And annoying sidekick Twigs is voiced by David Tennant!

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible



Tom's going to be on Star Wars: Rebels

http://www.doctorwhonews.net/2016/07/tom-baker-star-wars-170716080008.html

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Just from watching the trailer you know his appearance is gonna be magical :munch:. Aside from the fact that it's Tom Baker of course.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

I've been making my way through the first season of the 4th Doctor Adventures and while it's a little shaky to start Tom Baker is, as always, a joy to listen to.

Bragnar: I did not mean to kill him!
Doctor: Well you did a rather poor job of it, he's as dead as a dodo! :haw: .....well, as dead as they will be in about 1600 years....


That is awesome.

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor
Weird poo poo from early Star Wars drafts being adapted with Tom Baker? :psyboom:

Can we get Peter Capaldi as the original Emperor, Cos Dashit next?

:laugh: "Dashit"

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

After The War posted:

Weird poo poo from early Star Wars drafts being adapted with Tom Baker? :psyboom:

Can we get Peter Capaldi as the original Emperor, Cos Dashit next?

:laugh: "Dashit"

If Lucas had included him in the prequels he probably would have called him Darth Curse or Darth Evilman.

ThaGhettoJew
Jul 4, 2003

The world is a ghetto

Jerusalem posted:

If Lucas had included him in the prequels he probably would have called him Darth Curse or Darth Evilman.

I'll have you know Darth Antagonis has a rich backstory in the Extended Universe novels.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

ThaGhettoJew posted:

I'll have you know Darth Antagonis has a rich backstory in the Extended Universe novels.

You know that Lucas watched Force Awakens just seething with rage at the missed opportunity to call Kylo Ren Darth Badson.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

by Fluffdaddy

Jerusalem posted:

You know that Lucas watched Force Awakens just seething with rage at the missed opportunity to call Kylo Ren Darth Badson.

Batsun

Come on J-ru

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Jerusalem posted:

You know that Lucas watched Force Awakens just seething with rage at the missed opportunity to call Kylo Ren Darth Badson.

One of my favorite Cracked articles is about the lengths people went to to protect famous spoilers as they were happening, and the first one on the list was that the absolute bare minimum of people on the crew were actually told about Darth Vader being Luke's father. On the day it was just Lucas, the director, and Mark Hamill, the latter of which was told just moments before shooting. The actual script had a fake line ("Obi-Wan killed your father"), and only James Earl Jones ever got the real one.

And as ridiculously impressive as that is, I can't help but feel like that wouldn't have happened at all if the movies were made at any point later on, because 'Darth Vader' is honestly not a tremendously clever way to hide the name 'Dark Father' and the internet at any point in its life would've cracked that open in the time it took me to write this sentence.

As an aside, my memory is saying that there was a similar story in recent Doctor Who years, with Matt Smith being the only one to be told a thing because if it leaked, everyone would know who leaked it. Am I imagining things?

Cleretic fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Jul 20, 2016

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

Cleretic posted:

One of my favorite Cracked articles is about the lengths people went to to protect famous spoilers as they were happening, and the first one on the list was that the absolute bare minimum of people on the crew were actually told about Darth Vader being Luke's father. On the day it was just Lucas, the director, and Mark Hamill, the latter of which was told just moments before shooting. The actual script had a fake line ("Obi-Wan killed your father"), and only James Earl Jones ever got the real one.

And as ridiculously impressive as that is, I can't help but feel like that wouldn't have happened at all if the movies were made at any point later on, because 'Darth Vader' is honestly not a tremendously clever way to hide the name 'Dark Father' and the internet at any point in its life would've cracked that open in the time it took me to write this sentence.

As an aside, my memory is saying that there was a similar story in recent Doctor Who years, with Matt Smith being the only one to be told a thing because if it leaked, everyone would know who leaked it. Am I imagining things?

Maybe you're thinking of the River Song/Amy's daughter thing? I know only Alex Kingston/Moffat knew for the longest time.

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

Cleretic posted:

And as ridiculously impressive as that is, I can't help but feel like that wouldn't have happened at all if the movies were made at any point later on, because 'Darth Vader' is honestly not a tremendously clever way to hide the name 'Dark Father' and the internet at any point in its life would've cracked that open in the time it took me to write this sentence.

But Lucas only decided to make Vader Luke's father well into the process of making Empire. :confused:

If anything, this helped to keep it secret. Things moved slower then, but fans were still fans and chattered away with each other via fanzines and the like. And everybody knew about all the scenes that had been cut from New Hope (just called Star Wars at that point) and all kinds of backstory thanks to interviews and the way that every adaptation came from a different point in production. Alan Dean FosterLucas' novelization and the Marvel comic adaptation both have all kinds of dialogue and information changed by the final cut of the movie - all of which make it painfully obvious that Vader and Luke's father are completely different characters. So when it was revealed in Empire, it really did come out of nowhere.

quote:

As an aside, my memory is saying that there was a similar story in recent Doctor Who years, with Matt Smith being the only one to be told a thing because if it leaked, everyone would know who leaked it. Am I imagining things?

Paul McGann himself leaked Night of the Doctor, but you're probably thinking of Tom's appearance in the 50th.

Diabolik900
Mar 28, 2007

After The War posted:

Paul McGann himself leaked Night of the Doctor, but you're probably thinking of Tom's appearance in the 50th.

Are you sure you aren't thinking of Tom's appearance in the 50th? Because a McGann regeneration short was rumored, but I don't remember McGann ever saying anything to give it away. Meanwhile Tom came right out and said he would be in the 50th anniversary special and nobody took him seriously.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Cleretic posted:

One of my favorite Cracked articles is about the lengths people went to to protect famous spoilers as they were happening, and the first one on the list was that the absolute bare minimum of people on the crew were actually told about Darth Vader being Luke's father. On the day it was just Lucas, the director, and Mark Hamill, the latter of which was told just moments before shooting. The actual script had a fake line ("Obi-Wan killed your father"), and only James Earl Jones ever got the real one.

And as ridiculously impressive as that is, I can't help but feel like that wouldn't have happened at all if the movies were made at any point later on, because 'Darth Vader' is honestly not a tremendously clever way to hide the name 'Dark Father' and the internet at any point in its life would've cracked that open in the time it took me to write this sentence.

As an aside, my memory is saying that there was a similar story in recent Doctor Who years, with Matt Smith being the only one to be told a thing because if it leaked, everyone would know who leaked it. Am I imagining things?

They did a couple of similar things to hide big spoilers. I know they hid the tapes for one of the season finales by labelling them "Torchwood" before that show existed (it's also an anagram of "Doctor Who").

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!

Neddy Seagoon posted:

They did a couple of similar things to hide big spoilers. I know they hid the tapes for one of the season finales by labelling them "Torchwood" before that show existed (it's also an anagram of "Doctor Who").

The Torchwood thing was the first few episodes of the revival, not the finale.

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

Diabolik900 posted:

Are you sure you aren't thinking of Tom's appearance in the 50th? Because a McGann regeneration short was rumored, but I don't remember McGann ever saying anything to give it away. Meanwhile Tom came right out and said he would be in the 50th anniversary special and nobody took him seriously.

Paul put a pic up the day before Night came out on his Twitter feed or Livejournal or mimeograph or whatever they were using back then.

Mortanis
Dec 28, 2005

It's your father's lightsaber. This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight.
College Slice
Matt Smith also asked the crowd in New York to keep quiet about Jenna Coleman being in Asylum of the Daleks and everyone did.

Sad King Billy
Jan 27, 2006

Thats three of ours innit...to one of yours. You know mate I really think we ought to even up the average!

Mortanis posted:

Matt Smith also asked the crowd in New York to keep quiet about Jenna Coleman being in Asylum of the Daleks and everyone did.

Probably because they forgot all about her when the story ended.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Mortanis posted:

Matt Smith also asked the crowd in New York to keep quiet about Jenna Coleman being in Asylum of the Daleks and everyone did.

Was there someone with him there at the time? Looking like... uh... poo poo, I can't recall...

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum
So I picked up the Two Master trilogy from Big Finish using the $2-off-each coupon code that they were running...and I just finished up the 5th Doctor story And You Will Obey Me. I don't have a long review to post...but overall I was kinda underwhelmed. Excellent concept, enough material for a two or three parter, stretched into a four part story.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."
I'm listening to the first part of the Diary of River Song and... Eh.

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum

The_Doctor posted:

I'm listening to the first part of the Diary of River Song and... Eh.

That one definitely gets better as it goes

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Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Yeah, though I did enjoy the first episode, it improves as it goes along (though I was underwhelmed by the third episode). The fourth episode in particular I thought was excellent.

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