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http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/2016071821927823_uu.shtml So all the recent happenings in Nice, UK and Turkey isn't enough for our foreign minister to stop his holiday. Instead he is abroad dropping bönthö at his friend's wedding. Is this and Teukka's mölinä really what the ps supporters want?
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Jul 19, 2016 20:53
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Kemper Boyd posted:I've had Ligur on ignore for something like two years, does he still get mad whenever someone mentions the existence of racism? Yes yes oh yeah.
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Jul 19, 2016 20:54
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Fish of hemp posted:http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/2016071821927823_uu.shtml Mutta eihän siellä ole tapahtunut mitään paitsi jotku ihmiset on olleet rasistisia, ja siten pakottaneet ajamaan rekkoja lasten sekaan. Just kidding. But what is your course of planned operation in this case? What should a foreign minister do, to please your mind?
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Jul 19, 2016 21:11
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Fish of hemp posted:http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/2016071821927823_uu.shtml Lol the gently caress does anyone need Finnish FM for anything, good for him for going to his friend's wedding and even better if he gets blasted, Soini has like five years left anyway (life, not political career) EDIT: though Ps voters do want all the browns and Muslims out of Finland and complete disengagement from Europe so yes DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Jul 19, 2016 |
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Jul 19, 2016 21:59
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Ligur posted:Oli ehkä virhe päästää tiettyä porukkaa rajojen sisään aikoinaan, mutta mitäpä jos ei päästettäis niitä enää lisää jatkossa jos tulokset on aivan kamalan huonot. Niinkuin ovat olleet. Can you be more specific and less circumspect? Who are those people we should not be admitting into the country anymore, and what are these "awfully bad results" you mention?
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Jul 19, 2016 22:18
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Herman Merman posted:Can you be more specific and less circumspect? Who are those people we should not be admitting into the country anymore, and what are these "awfully bad results" you mention? Paperless terrorists, terrorism?
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Jul 19, 2016 23:51
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Ligur posted:Toi on taas niin helvetin tyhmää avautumista. Oli ehkä virhe päästää tiettyä porukkaa rajojen sisään aikoinaan, mutta mitäpä jos ei päästettäis niitä enää lisää jatkossa jos tulokset on aivan kamalan huonot. Niinkuin ovat olleet. Menneitä virheitä on hankalampi korjata kuin tulevia, mutta tuleviin voi sentäään vaikuttaa etukäteen. Tajua mitä? Että tulokset on huonot? Että oli virhe päästää tiettyä porukkaa rajojen sisään? Että meillä ei ole aikakonetta? Koita muotoilla kysymys uudestaan jos haluat vastauksen. You want Finland to not let any refugees of any kind from anywhere come here, is that right? I do not agree with that. However, they way the refugee crisis has been handled so far is terrible. What we need is EU run refugee camps with proper funding, humane conditions, and a legal and timely process for getting in. There also needs to be EU wide policy where those who come in through human smuggling can never get permanent refugee status through simply showing up. They need to be returned those EU run camps where they can apply through the system. This system has to actually work though, it can't be just lip service.This means we need quotas for refugees each EU member has to take in, and those quotas must also be enforced. Also, no more letting Greece and Italy deal with the refugees simply because they happen to be on the southern border. Fund the camps directly out of the EU budget, and levy new fees on members if necessary. It is unconscionable that those countries have bear the burden themselves, and even worse that they don't and can't, which is a big reason why we have the problem. Dublin Regulation is dead and buried. It has not worked at any point in time. No bullshit deals with Islamic dictatorship Turkey. Tell Erdogan to go gently caress himself and handle it internally.
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Jul 20, 2016 00:01
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Erdogan's Turkey isn't at all like an islamist dictatorship, more like a old-timey conservative nationalist strongman running a country and quashing all opposition.
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Jul 20, 2016 00:27
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Not yet, but what do you think it'll look like after the purges are finished?
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Jul 20, 2016 00:30
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ehdoitan että otetaan nato-ydinaseet turkin tukikohdista pois ennen kuin tehdään mitään radikaalia
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Jul 20, 2016 00:32
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I would call it more Islamization then Islamism, Erdogan is a religious conservative but lol if any cleric who had even an inkling of political aspirations wouldn't find himself in some dark hole inside five seconds anyway any realistic currently doable situation involves Turkey so EU won't stop sucking that dick anytime soon 
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Jul 20, 2016 00:34
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Alright, maybe it was a poor choice of words. Anyway, Erdogan has destroyed the entire secular court system and is probably going to replace the judges with clerics loyal to him. The EU should not work with a country like that. Withdrawal would be gradual, etc.
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Jul 20, 2016 00:39
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doverhog posted:What we need is EU run refugee camps with proper funding, humane conditions, and a legal and timely process for getting in. There also needs to be EU wide policy where those who come in through human smuggling can never get permanent refugee status through simply showing up. They need to be returned those EU run camps where... and so on. You do understand everything you said has been suggested as something to do for the past decade or so, and also, it has been called a hitlernazi phobia -solution until now in a place like D&D, yes? So that makes you a white power racist hitler. Just kidding. No I'm not, the D&D part was true but of course I agree with you otherwise. The amount of personal attacks you would have garnered with a post like that a year ago nevermined 10 years ago though, whoah....
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Jul 20, 2016 01:52
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Herman Merman posted:Can you be more specific and less circumspect? Who are those people we should not be admitting into the country anymore, and what are these "awfully bad results" you mention? En tiedä vittu oletko huomannut, että vuoden 2010 tai oikeastaan 2000 jälkeen Euroopassa ei ole posautellut pommeja tai ajanut rekalla lapsien yli tai sarjatulittanut väkeä oikeastan kukaan muu kuin henkilöt joiden mielestä asiaan kuuluu karjua Allahu Akbar. Käytännössä kaikki muslimitaustaisia. Käytännössä kaikki vannovat, että Allah on Suuri. 2011 oli piikki Norjassa mutta siinäpä se. Muuten se touhu on ollut ihan ulkomailta tuotua ja Islam-viritteistä. Onkohan joku anarkisti tai separatisti tai Tuusulan ampuja samaan aikaan sitten listinyt jonkun tusinan yhteensä. Pelkästään tänä vuonna yli 600 on sairaalassa ja yli 100 kuollut, koska Allahu Akbar. Että semmoinen huono tulos. Näin muuten, tietyistä suunnista tulleet maahanmuuttajat elävät käytännössä pysyvästi ja pääosin veronmaksajien tuella Länsi-Euroopassa, vai keksitkö kiistää tämän? Sekin on huono tulos. "Jaa, mutta osa niistä on kasvanut täällä Euroopassa, ja ovat toisen polven muslimimaahanmuuttajia, joten todistan sinut vääräksi qu ne on ihan sama asia ku joqu kantis byhyyy", vai mitä? Tosi kiva. Ei ne ole, ja ei se helpota niitä joita on ammuttu naamaan vaikka kuinka se on yksi ja sama jollekin tauskille joka haluaa että musulmaanien nyt vaan pitää saada muuttaa EU alueelle koska itseisarvo.
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Jul 20, 2016 02:07
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Ligur posted:You do understand everything you said has been suggested as something to do for the past decade or so, and also, it has been called a hitlernazi phobia -solution until now in a place like D&D, yes? I'm pretty sure I posted something similar about what EU policy should be before, but can't remember where. Anyway, are you agreeing with my frankly EU federalist position? Doing what I'm proposing there would involve giving up a fair amount of sovereignty to the EU, and it would still have refugees coming in. It's not a "close all borders" position.
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Jul 20, 2016 02:09
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doverhog posted:I'm pretty sure I posted something similar about what EU policy should be before, but can't remember where. Anyway, are you agreeing with my frankly EU federalist position? Doing what I'm proposing there would involve giving up a fair amount of sovereignty to the EU, and it would still have refugees coming in. It's not a "close all borders" position. No, gently caress off with the federal Europe idea. Especially with some kind of sharing of millions of asylum seekers that would be the end result. That will never fly, the popular opposition will be just so overwhelming. The last "let's share the load" has not gone anywhere, and further plans will even less so.
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Jul 20, 2016 02:17
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http://www.hs.fi/talous/a1468897929244?ref=hs-etusivub-luetuimmat-#7 I was going to say that basically no Finnish company that existed when I was born will be alive in about year 2025 but hey it's apparently Luxembourg-registered German-operated already so ehh Hope nobody ordered anything from there recently because you ain't getting it! Or possibly your money! http://www.hs.fi/talous/a1468978810556?ref=a-luet-#9
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Jul 20, 2016 10:46
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Ligur posted:En tiedä vittu oletko huomannut, että vuoden 2010 tai oikeastaan 2000 jälkeen Euroopassa ei ole posautellut pommeja tai ajanut rekalla lapsien yli tai sarjatulittanut väkeä oikeastan kukaan muu kuin henkilöt joiden mielestä asiaan kuuluu karjua Allahu Akbar. Käytännössä kaikki muslimitaustaisia. Käytännössä kaikki vannovat, että Allah on Suuri. 2011 oli piikki Norjassa mutta siinäpä se. Muuten se touhu on ollut ihan ulkomailta tuotua ja Islam-viritteistä. Onkohan joku anarkisti tai separatisti tai Tuusulan ampuja samaan aikaan sitten listinyt jonkun tusinan yhteensä. Pelkästään tänä vuonna yli 600 on sairaalassa ja yli 100 kuollut, koska Allahu Akbar. Mutta koska Breivik kaikki allahu akbarit ovat yksittäistapauksia, eivät liity islamiin ja edellyttävät lisää kotouttamistoimia
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Jul 20, 2016 10:53
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Rappaport posted:Mutta koska Breivik kaikki allahu akbarit ovat yksittäistapauksia, eivät liity islamiin ja edellyttävät lisää kotouttamistoimia jos brevikin kaltaiset veikkulit rällästäisivät puolella siitä vimmasta millä nämä aloha snackbarit menevät euroopassa, lähes koko eurooppa menisi suoraan itäsaksalaiseen poliisivaltioon estääkseen sitä
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Jul 20, 2016 11:12
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It's probably worth mentioning that those lone Islamists are more or less disenfranchised youths who don't see a future for themselves - so they're not that far off from, say, Pekka-Eric Auvinen or Petri Gerdt. They just have a convenient philosophy to fall on. Also worth notifying, it's the little rascal's parents who are the first to snitch the little shits to the authorities.
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Jul 20, 2016 11:20
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Triple A posted:jos brevikin kaltaiset veikkulit rällästäisivät puolella siitä vimmasta millä nämä aloha snackbarit menevät euroopassa, lähes koko eurooppa menisi suoraan itäsaksalaiseen poliisivaltioon estääkseen sitä Mutta sehän ei olisikaan rasismia!
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Jul 20, 2016 11:59
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Rexroom posted:It's probably worth mentioning that those lone Islamists are more or less disenfranchised youths who don't see a future for themselves - so they're not that far off from, say, Pekka-Eric Auvinen or Petri Gerdt. They just have a convenient philosophy to fall on. Also worth notifying, it's the little rascal's parents who are the first to snitch the little shits to the authorities. This is it - if one discounts the above article and the points raised in it, and still believes that that terrorism is because of Islam I fail to see a logical conclusion to problem posited by that belief that doesn't involve at the minimum racial profiling or religious restrictions. Nobody is actually detailing the methods that would be presumably used to combat this. Like OK, let's assume that you have hypothetically accomplished an Europe-wide ban against Muslim migration - what about the 45 million Muslims that are already in Europe? If you want simply the growth of Islam to stop that also won't be stopped by banning refugees/immigrants because European Muslims will still you know, have children. Usually at higher rate then the average. What kind of restrictions will be placed for them? How many should be deported? Are people who convert into Islam going to be placed under surveillance? Do we put cops on mosques and conduct regular raids on Muslim-heavy neighborhoods? I see lot of blame placed on Islam but the only solutions based on this presumption seem to come from the rajat kiinni crowd. Because most people who do these attacks and go to fight ISIS are native born criminals and converts and banning refugees won't do poo poo about them. http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/01/isis-criminals-converts/426822/ http://thinkprogress.org/world/2016/02/03/3743136/muslim-converts/ http://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/.premium-1.613705 If you believe that all Muslims should be deported/exterminated that's at least a consistent belief for someone who believes that Islam is a violent blood cult, even if I don't agree. It's all these middle-of-the-road motherfuckers who baffle me. What do you want to happen? DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 12:18 on Jul 20, 2016 |
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Jul 20, 2016 12:12
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Rexroom posted:It's probably worth mentioning that those lone Islamists are more or less disenfranchised youths who don't see a future for themselves - so they're not that far off from, say, Pekka-Eric Auvinen or Petri Gerdt. They just have a convenient philosophy to fall on. Also worth notifying, it's the little rascal's parents who are the first to snitch the little shits to the authorities. It doesn't really differ at all. Some dude like Breivik gets his ideas from the whole far right mindset, but doesn't really represent anything except himself and those ideas, while dudes like the Stockholm car bomber (who failed) get their ideas from militant islam. The actual problem is more late-stage capitalism, where tons of people fall outside society for no fault of their own. If a minority of them snap while falling, it's no wonder. Of course there then again that the far right makes noises about immigrants and closing the borders while staying suspiciously silent of how we should handle the minorities that are already here. They don't really have a solution for that since at least at this point, you don't really get votes by openly speaking in favor of ethnic cleaning.
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Jul 20, 2016 12:16
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DarkCrawler posted:refugees Tuo on hauska sanavalinta ottaen huomioon miten moni iRakin astronautti on päättänyt ihan itse palata takaisin kun Pohjolan ihmemaasta ei löytynytkään sitä isotissistä blondia. Mitä nämä sankarit varsinaisesti pakenivatkaan?
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Jul 20, 2016 12:18
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se viimeisin tapaus saksasta oli aika hassu kaveri päästettiin maahan koska oli kuulemma yksinäinen alaikäinen afgaani olikin täysi-ikäinen pakistanilainen isisisti joka aloitti oman jihadinsa junassa puukon ja kirveen kanssa onneksi sai kuulan päähänsä ennen kuin ehti listiä ketään
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Jul 20, 2016 12:18
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Rappaport posted:Tuo on hauska sanavalinta ottaen huomioon miten moni iRakin astronautti on päättänyt ihan itse palata takaisin kun Pohjolan ihmemaasta ei löytynytkään sitä isotissistä blondia. Mitä nämä sankarit varsinaisesti pakenivatkaan? liian pieniä tukia ja täältä ne pakenivat ilmaista ruokaa
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Jul 20, 2016 12:23
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Hogge Wild posted:liian pieniä tukia Se puuro nyt vaan oli pahaa. Syöttäisi korkeintaan koiralle, ehkä naisille.
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Jul 20, 2016 12:28
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Rappaport posted:Tuo on hauska sanavalinta ottaen huomioon miten moni iRakin astronautti on päättänyt ihan itse palata takaisin kun Pohjolan ihmemaasta ei löytynytkään sitä isotissistä blondia. Mitä nämä sankarit varsinaisesti pakenivatkaan? The decades long instability and war in Iraq, which they chose to return to because it turns out they can't get their families here as fast as they assumed, a point raised in any article concerning Iraqis leaving voluntarily. I assume you believe those staying here (85-90%) are genuine refugees then? Any other questions you need answered randomly out of the blue that you could have found out on your own? Hogge Wild posted:se viimeisin tapaus saksasta oli aika hassu Link?
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Jul 20, 2016 12:28
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DarkCrawler posted:Any other questions you need answered randomly out of the blue that you could have found out on your own? If you were a pokemon, would you prefer Emma Kari or Ville Niinistö to catch you? (Apologies if you are indeed a pokemon, I don't mean to offend  )
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Jul 20, 2016 12:33
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Another part of the problem is the way that media hysteria feeds these models into pregnable minds. By portraying these murderous losers as some sort of epic warriors we are giving a signal to others with similar mental health issues. Islam itself is also an issue, what with some pretty popular interpretations emphasizing the concept of holy war and that way feeding bad ideas into the minds of the same losers. This could be fixed through education. I doubt Muhammed actually meant for Afghan refugees to go to Germany and then axe innocents in a train or any of that sort, so claiming to do such attrocities in the name of God should be considered blasphemy. You can't completely prevent fringe preachers from spreading radical theology, but there have to be means to limit the damage.
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Jul 20, 2016 12:34
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Rappaport posted:If you were a pokemon, would you prefer Emma Kari or Ville Niinistö to catch you? I do not understand this question but I guess Emma Kari cause she seems more like the animal rights type of Green and probably wouldn't force me to fight a giant snake made of stone or a heavily armed mega-tortoise or whatever Nenonen posted:Islam itself is also an issue, what with some pretty popular interpretations emphasizing the concept of holy war and that way feeding bad ideas into the minds of the same losers. This could be fixed through education. This could be fixed by not giving these interpretations literal billions and billions in money because they have oil which they then use to spread their ideology and buy weapons DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 12:40 on Jul 20, 2016 |
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Jul 20, 2016 12:36
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France has been in a state of emergency since the Paris attacks and just extended it, and even our own little military superpower of a nation is providing aid to kurds fighting against Isis. In the alternate reality: Europe won't do anything against terrorism because political correctness!
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Jul 20, 2016 12:39
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brakeless posted:France has been in a state of emergency since the Paris attacks and just extended it, and even our own little military superpower of a nation is providing aid to kurds fighting against Isis. Also closing mosques, making several thousand raids = apparently not doing anything
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Jul 20, 2016 12:45
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brakeless posted:France has been in a state of emergency since the Paris attacks and just extended it, and even our own little military superpower of a nation is providing aid to kurds fighting against Isis. It could also be mentioned that Breivik executing a dozens of kids ultimately led to something between jack and poo poo for backlash against the far-right. Five years later the far right has already taken over a couple of countries, we've got refugee camps being firebombed with near-impunity and nazis patrolling the streets. But hell, that's probably just the greenleft mafia playing the long game here and the Statsi reeducation gulags are coming any day now.
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Jul 20, 2016 12:46
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Nenonen posted:Islam itself is also an issue, what with some pretty popular interpretations emphasizing the concept of holy war and that way feeding bad ideas into the minds of the same losers. This could be fixed through education. I doubt Muhammed actually meant for Afghan refugees to go to Germany and then axe innocents in a train or any of that sort, so claiming to do such attrocities in the name of God should be considered blasphemy. You can't completely prevent fringe preachers from spreading radical theology, but there have to be means to limit the damage. Jarkko Sipilä, the crime journalist and novelist, said somewhere that the overall cost to society for some 20 car stereos getting stolen is something like 70 grand, and those who steal them are probably kids who get about 200 euros for selling them. But because we focus on easily-measurable statistics and decisive action we instead want the police to catch them and for the courts to sentence them, instead of dropping 35k into the local youth activities budget that would probably prevent a lot of low-grade criminality. Terrorism prevention works the same way: we drop money at the police who hassle non-white Finns and produce statistics they can label as effective. The most efficient way to stop radicalization is to work with the local communities and do early non-law enforcement interventions, make sure immigrants get a decent education and making sure there's jobs for everyone. But that doesn't seem like decisive action so we don't do that.
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Jul 20, 2016 12:47
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Nenonen posted:Islam itself is also an issue, what with some pretty popular interpretations emphasizing the concept of holy war and that way feeding bad ideas into the minds of the same losers. This could be fixed through education. I doubt Muhammed actually meant for Afghan refugees to go to Germany and then axe innocents in a train or any of that sort, so claiming to do such attrocities in the name of God should be considered blasphemy. You can't completely prevent fringe preachers from spreading radical theology, but there have to be means to limit the damage. You're making a pretty big understatement. Most of those people actually believe in what the Koran says (which, as you mentioned, is partly through education which tends to be mostly "learn to recite the Koran"), so the often-mentioned "moderate muslim" is more equivalent to a Jehova-pedocultist than a regular Erkki who last went to church when he was 15 but still thinks himself a christian. One of the things that should happen in Finland is to stop tolerating religious bullshit. No more taxation rights, no public funds for religious centers, no pedocultist insider courts, no animal torture, no exemptions from conscription, no turbans at airport security etc. etc. Same rules for everyone.
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Jul 20, 2016 13:16
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Darkest Auer posted:One of the things that should happen in Finland is to stop tolerating religious bullshit. No more taxation rights, no public funds for religious centers, no pedocultist insider courts, no animal torture, no exemptions from conscription, no turbans at airport security etc. etc. Same rules for everyone. Know who would benefit enormously? The Wahhabites who the Saudis fund. Defunding mainstream islam is like the best way to give fundamentalists a real shot in the arm.
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Jul 20, 2016 13:22
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When did everyone become an expert on islam anyway?
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Jul 20, 2016 13:27
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Kemper Boyd posted:Know who would benefit enormously? The Wahhabites who the Saudis fund. Defunding mainstream islam is like the best way to give fundamentalists a real shot in the arm. I would assume that "stopping tolerating religious bullshit" would involve not letting Saudi preachers or Saudi funds in Kemper Boyd posted:When did everyone become an expert on islam anyway? 11.09.2001, duh DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Jul 20, 2016 |
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Jul 20, 2016 13:33
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I'm glad we're finally having this important discussion
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