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I was just hoping they'd advertise everyone equally so it wouldn't be telegraphed quite so obviously, and then we'd also get a minute of the rope specialist's gig.
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Jul 20, 2016 21:41
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McSpanky posted:I was just hoping they'd advertise everyone equally so it wouldn't be telegraphed quite so obviously, and then we'd also get a minute of the rope specialist's gig. The last shot of the movie will be Waller safe in her office, realizing the desk's been rigged to blow. She quickly gets up to run but trips... Her laces - a constrictor knot... impossible...
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Jul 20, 2016 21:44
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I kinda love that Slipknot has become this thread's mascot.
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Jul 20, 2016 21:50
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I really wish this movie would pull a fast one on us and it turns out the first ones down are, like, Deadshot and Harley Quinn.
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Jul 20, 2016 21:54
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Pirate Jet posted:I really wish this movie would pull a fast one on us and it turns out the first ones down are, like, Deadshot and Harley Quinn. Slipknot is the sole survivor, with the twist reveal that he's also invulnerable.
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Jul 20, 2016 22:01
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No way in hell they'd kill off Harley Quinn. She's way too big of a box office draw for future movies. I like how the marketing department has embraced the fact that no one knows or cares about Slipknot.
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Jul 20, 2016 22:02
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LesterGroans posted:I kinda love that Slipknot has become this thread's mascot. He is our spirit animal
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Jul 20, 2016 22:02
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bring back old gbs posted:Waller usually kills someone right off the bat(lol) to prove the neck bombs/collars aren't a joke. Yah, that shot of Slipknot using his rope gun is prob him trying to escape, and then they pop him  I hope the survivors are the non-obvious ones. Movie's gonna own either way. Is there not a separate thread? Someone should make one (not it!)
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Jul 20, 2016 22:20
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Hadn't realized how close Suicide Squad was getting. I'll put up a thread tonight if no one else does it first.
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Jul 20, 2016 22:22
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bring back old gbs posted:Waller usually kills someone right off the bat(lol) to prove the neck bombs/collars aren't a joke. The DCU turned into Warhammer 40k so gradually, I didn't even notice.
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Jul 20, 2016 22:32
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Hodgepodge posted:Of course, that's also beside the point in that you're not actually defending the idea that only the spirit itself can be a trickster; which is incoherent. Remember that we're talking about what (if anything) makes Spiderman a good superhero. In Prometheus, the character Fifield (a geologist) has developed a type of miniature robotic drone for mapping and surveying. A sort of techno-shaman, Fifield adopts a 'wolfish' persona, refers to his drones as 'pups', expresses himself with howls, etc. Now in your terms you would say that the wolf-spirit totem animal has selected him, and now he's subverting the company he works for by maintaining an inner distance from the whole affair. But again, what this Idiosyncrasy masks is that he actually is a perfectly compliant employee. The moment Fifield actually gets what he fantasized about, and is transformed into an animalistic creature that actually threatens the company's operation, he's quickly put down like a rabid dog. Spiderman is no different: the pagan ideology is an ideology of natural balance, you get a reassertion of a basic moralism with the black magic and the white (white magic maintains homeostasis whereas black magic represents greed and corruption or whatever). And that is all a result of attributing 'deep' spiritual significance to what are ultimately consumer technologies and market forces.
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Jul 21, 2016 00:53
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Yeah, I'm suspicious of the idea of an Anansi that protects the NYPD and rebuilds the electrical power grid.
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Jul 21, 2016 02:03
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Remember that we're talking about what (if anything) makes Spiderman a good superhero. Correct; there is nothing about shamanism that is inherently threatening to capital. Fifeild simply creates a fetishist identity to be a better commodity within capitalism. However, Spider-Man does act subversively by using his bosses' anti-Spider-Man editorial line to support the altruistic activities of Spider-Man. That these activities often protect the established order against threats isn't a criticism particularly unique to Spider-Man; this is the most notable criticism of Superman in his "big blue boy scout" mode, and why he carries the risk of being Dr. Manhattan as he is in Miller's The Dark Knight Returns. quote:Spiderman is no different: the pagan ideology is an ideology of natural balance, you get a reassertion of a basic moralism with the black magic and the white (white magic maintains homeostasis whereas black magic represents greed and corruption or whatever). And that is all a result of attributing 'deep' spiritual significance to what are ultimately consumer technologies and market forces. It is important to note that this is a criticism of the comfortable, new age interpretation of paganism, not of the actual traditional practices themselves or their own underlying logic. There is nothing about what is usually translated as "medicine" that seeks homeostasis; that is a conflation of the idea with connotations of the word within our own social order and our fantasies of noble savages who live in ecological harmony with the root idea of "making someone better." Taiaiake Alfred translates the idea as "power-way." As an example, take the Kwakwaka'wakw Hamatsa ceremony, in which the initiate is kidnapped and taught how to be possessed by the and tame the spirit of a cannibalistic giant. He later displays his mastery by enacting the possession in a dance before the winter gathering of his people and their neighbors, demonstrating the power he has gained over the spirit. This is what we attempt to domesticate with our fantasies about "homeostasis." In the context we are discussing, the altruistic demands of the Spider are a constant threat to Parker's attempt to maintain homeostasis in his personal life, represented in the Raimi films as his ability to pay the rent with a day job or maintain his relationship with MJ. The two are only compatible insofar as he is able to subvert Jameson's own purpose by selling him photographs of his own activities. The Raimi films bend the conflict between the demands of the Spider and Parker's romantic life ideologically by allowing Parker to save MJ and the subway passengers at the same time; as you probably know, in the original story he attempts to save the passengers and Gwen Stacy only to discover in his moment of triumph that by halting Stacy's fall with his web, he had broken her neck. He only meets and begins a romance with MJ after he has accepted that he may have to choose ethical action over her life. The "black magic" possibility is creating homeostasis with the Spider by subordinating its power to the demands of capitalism. That is why in the Raimi films, he merges totally with the Spider-identity when he becomes comfortably established and begins to be driven primarily by success. Not that his behavior resembles that of a testosterone-driven "alpha male." It is also why his most persistent foe, the Green Goblin/Hobgoblin is a Tony Stark who has merged totally with his identity as Iron Man in this fashion (although the Goblin is depicted as an evil trickster spirit). They are, of course, also Parker's best friend and potential adoptive father; this is precisely what makes them his greatest enemy. Writers increasingly miss this point and simply have Parker become the ally of Stark, aligning him with rather than against the Goblin. Superman, of course, can be analyzed in this fashion as well. One aspect of the Messiah/Christ figure is the Sun God; the temptation to subordinate the entire cosmos to one's will as the fascist Zod being what occurs if one attempts to harmonize this power with capitalism. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Jul 21, 2016 |
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Jul 21, 2016 02:48
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Sir Kodiak posted:I literally had just watched the movie when I posted. It's not a matter of animosity, it's the attitude with which Peter treats his aunt. Watch the movie and tell me he isn't a poo poo to her. You're projecting really hard. They're joking through out the movie, and they're both clearly stressed. She breaks down because she thinks he doesn't think of her as a parent and the bills are stacking up, but Peter comforts her. And the eggs at the end. And yes, why would Peter give away his identity to a a super villain in the making? Peter has radioactive blood, whatever happens to Harry would be on his conscious regardless, so why push it? You're no LeJackal.
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Jul 21, 2016 04:22
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Hot Toys might be spoiled a surprise appearance of a "new" Suicide Squad character on their SDCC showing. I'm linking the picture just to be safe Is the Joker wearing a "jokerized" Batman costume Dark_Tzitzimine fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Jul 21, 2016 |
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Jul 21, 2016 04:25
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That's pretty awesome
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Jul 21, 2016 04:29
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bushisms.txt posted:You're projecting really hard. bushisms.txt posted:why would Peter give away his identity to a a super villain in the making? bushisms.txt posted:You're no LeJackal.
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Jul 21, 2016 05:10
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Hodgepodge posted:
I remember in my Psych class the teacher brought up that there was some group where every day they'd get together & discuss their dreams. All I could think was like, what if you had a dream about banging someone's wife or something? Food 4 Thought
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Jul 21, 2016 06:01
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Hat Thoughts posted:I remember in my Psych class the teacher brought up that there was some group where every day they'd get together & discuss their dreams. All I could think was like, what if you had a dream about banging someone's wife or something? Kwakwaka'wakw is a pain to pronounce. No pressure or anything, it's just the name of your people and I sound like I'm trying to do a duck call.
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Jul 21, 2016 07:53
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Hat Thoughts posted:I remember in my Psych class the teacher brought up that there was some group where every day they'd get together & discuss their dreams. All I could think was like, what if you had a dream about banging someone's wife or something? I'd kind of suspect dreams like that would be the point of the exercise. I know I'd personally be disappointed if I attended a group like that and I didn't get any good stroeis out of it.
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Jul 21, 2016 12:41
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First clip from Suicide Squad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hM20Q2_9KkM Go get it gurrrrl. Aww yeah, The Wall is so badass  Also really digging the CG effects for Enchantress.
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Jul 21, 2016 14:24
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edit: beaten Pretty cool transformation they did there, like something from a horror movie.
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Jul 21, 2016 14:24
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Schwarzwald posted:I'd kind of suspect dreams like that would be the point of the exercise. I know I'd personally be disappointed if I attended a group like that and I didn't get any good stroeis out of it. Well no by group I mean it was like, a tribe or something, I dunno it was a bit ago.
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Jul 21, 2016 14:29
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Hat Thoughts posted:Well no by group I mean it was like, a tribe or something, I dunno it was a bit ago. Sounds like an Australian Aborigine sort of thing, what with the Dreamtime being so important to them. There is no doubt ways this would be handled. For example, there are aborigine tribes in which men marry at 30 and women around 14. This means that the mother-in-law is often around the age of the husband. Because this could cause tension should the two be attracted to each other, there is a simple rule: mothers and sons in law are never allowed to interact or acknowledge the other's existence.
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Jul 21, 2016 14:36
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLBWeWSjECQ Leto's Joker gonna be good, yall.
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Jul 21, 2016 17:12
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teagone posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLBWeWSjECQ Yes, he is. I also appreciate that for the first time in memory "antisocial" is used correctly. Sad that gets me.
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Jul 21, 2016 17:28
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Hodgepodge posted:As an example, take the Kwakwaka'wakw Hamatsa ceremony, in which the initiate is kidnapped and taught how to be possessed by the and tame the spirit of a cannibalistic giant. He later displays his mastery by enacting the possession in a dance before the winter gathering of his people and their neighbors, demonstrating the power he has gained over the spirit. This is what we attempt to domesticate with our fantasies about "homeostasis." My issue is that you're paying lip service to the Spiderman character's altruism (he fights crime or whatever), before proceeding to write volumes about the 'inner journey', wherein the battles against the goblin are merely an externalization of the quest for spiritual self-mastery or something. Spiderman learns, in a 'self-help' sort of way, to cope with the stresses of the workplace and of student life. What you miss in this Hamatsa ceremony is the role of the audience (who, I presume, are also the kidnappers) - whose approval is sought. The power is not at all the initiate's, but the cultural community's, and his role is one of total subordination to them. (See: Zizek's analysis of the Amish rumspringa. It's the same deal.) And this is why Kick-rear end, satirizing Spiderman, makes the character a very literal star on social media, youtube, etc. I'd call that a similar case of 'dancing for your kidnappers'. Though you admit that "there is nothing about shamanism that is inherently threatening to capital," that misses the broader point that this (techno-)shamanism is inherently a retreat from the truth of class struggle. It marks a reactionary attempt "to re-enframe capitalism into some social field of meaning, to contain its self-propelling movement within the confines of a system of shared 'values' which cement a 'community' in its 'organic unity'". And that is the case regardless of whether you are 'new age' or not. The very notion of a deeper, 'authentic' paganism is an obfuscation. There is only this attempt to restore God in His heaven, reunite truth and meaning - the very definition of obscurantism. But that obscurantism is the entire point of "with great power comes great responsibility", the dumb motto. The 'great power' is of course the rapacious death drive of capitalism (linked as it is to the scientific drive, the unleashing of 'radioactive spiders'), while the 'responsibility' is specifically responsibility to the community: "The commonplace wisdom today is that 'our extraordinary power to manipulate nature through scientific devices has run ahead of our faculty to lead a meaningful existence, to make human use of this immense power.' Thus, the properly modern ethics of 'following the drive' clashes with traditional ethics whereby one is instructed to live one's life according to standards of proper measure and to subordinate all its aspects to some all-encompassing notion of the Good." "The problem is, of course, that no balance between these two notions of ethics can ever be achieved. The notion of reinscribing scientific drive into the constraints of the life-world is fantasy at its purest - perhaps the fundamental fascist fantasy. Any limitation of this kind is utterly foreign to the inherent logic of science - science belongs to the real and, as a mode of the real of jouissance, it is indifferent to the modalities of its symbolization, to the way it will affect social life." -Zizek, my italics Kick-rear end utterly destroys Spiderman with the observation that "with great power comes great responsibility" means necessarily that "with no power comes no responsibility" - giving lie to the whole thing. What you have there is once again Tony Stark, and his conviction that, because he is so powerful, he has a responsibility to the world... those poor victims are so powerless.... Against this motto, it's necessary to assert that with great freedom comes great responsibility. Freedom meaning to operate without any guarantees from God, the Big Other, whatever. This logic is totally opposed to the logic of paganism, which is why Christ is the ultimate threat. "If Christ were to return to this society, he would have been burned as a deadly threat to public order and happiness, since he brought to the people the gift (which turns out to be a heavy burden) of freedom and responsibility." -Zizek SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Jul 21, 2016 |
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Jul 21, 2016 17:35
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrP29agA_D4 Boomer does use boomerangs
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Jul 21, 2016 18:20
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So a good hero would be someone like a villain
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Jul 21, 2016 20:01
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teagone posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLBWeWSjECQ No they're going to kill the character of the actor who plays the only character on Mindy Project who approaches being funny. Oh and Jared Leto looks real good as Joker
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Jul 21, 2016 20:17
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Uncle Wemus posted:So a good hero would be someone like a villain From the standpoint of the existing order, yes. What Hodgepodge misses is that Jameson is little more than a Republican crank, publisher of a lurid tabloid and not taken seriously by anyone who matters. JJ characterizes Spiderman as a menace because the character is a liberal hero - as established, a less-wealthy Tony Stark. The subversion of Jameson is some everyday culture-war stuff.
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Jul 21, 2016 21:33
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teagone posted:First clip from Suicide Squad: I'd really like to know why they feel the need to dub over what looks like "are you ready?" (or something) with "go get it, girl!" with zero context for what "it" is. It doesn't seem like the actual line would've spoiled anything (I'm pretty sure that's where Enchantress says "let's do something fun," in one of the actual trailers--which could also be a ADR'd line), before the edit, and the edit just makes Waller sound weird. What I'm trying to say is film marketing is ridiculous. And that Enchantress looks awesome. Namaste fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Jul 21, 2016 |
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Jul 21, 2016 23:13
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Namaste posted:I'd really like to know why they feel the need to dub over what looks like "are you ready?" (or something) with "go get it, girl!" with zero context for what "it" is. It doesn't seem like the actual line would've spoiled anything (I'm pretty sure that's where Enchantress says "let's do something fun," in one of the actual trailers--which could also be a ADR'd line), before the edit, and the edit just makes Waller sound weird. Oh wow, I didn't notice it the first time but now that you point that out you're right, that is really bad dubbing. Whatever she does say ends with "...you.." That transformation was cool as gently caress, though.
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Jul 21, 2016 23:49
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:From the standpoint of the existing order, yes. As the publisher/editor in chief of the Daily Bugle, I would think that a significant portion of the population takes him seriously.
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Jul 22, 2016 00:34
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Jameson has no clue or perspective about Spider-man's economic status. In fact, I'm pretty sure that for a time he assumed the guy was well off.
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Jul 22, 2016 01:35
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:As the publisher/editor in chief of the Daily Bugle, I would think that a significant portion of the population takes him seriously. I figure a far greater majority thinks he's a lunatic for the same reason.
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Jul 22, 2016 02:02
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:My issue is that you're paying lip service to the Spiderman character's altruism (he fights crime or whatever), before proceeding to write volumes about the 'inner journey', wherein the battles against the goblin are merely an externalization of the quest for spiritual self-mastery or something. Spiderman learns, in a 'self-help' sort of way, to cope with the stresses of the workplace and of student life. Honestly, I'm having trouble seeing how your power/freedom distinction doesn't just boil down to exalting Christ as a priviledged symbol. In my argument, Christ and the Spider are to a certain degree equivalent, except as the methods of the Messiah and the Trickster differ in important ways. "Christ" is certainly at odds with capitalism and the existing order, but this is just an appeal to "authentic " Christianity, and merits the same skepticism you apply to my argument, especially since to most of the world, the "good news" of Christ has been the freedom of the market that is all that is left when the colonial power declares "the great god Pan is dead!" and with him, any hope of resistence. I suppose my evaluation of Spider-Man comes down to his failures and successes as a trickster, where another poster was suspicious of Anansi as the ally of the NYPD specifically because his is far less comfortable an alliance than one with Christ, who also "should" challenge them but instead, as is inscribed on a church here in Victoria, "himself [is] the cornerstone" of their dominance. If Christ returned, capital would have to destroy him; but this is the role of the solar symbol who dies to absolve the imperial order of its sins and gives the blessing "in hoc signo vinces," whereas the trickster has actually served the colonized against capital. Spider-Man himself is not that trickster, but he is in his best stories. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Jul 22, 2016 |
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Jul 22, 2016 03:46
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Schwarzwald posted:I figure a far greater majority thinks he's a lunatic for the same reason. This "majority" has always been happy to dismiss O'Reilly and his like as mere lunatics. This is a safe fantasy, that the yellow journalist, the jingoist, is not taken seriously by anyone who matters while they sell war after war. These people who do not matter have sold every war of the British and American empires. They are merely mouthpeices, but we are the deluded ones who do not matter; they are the Mouth of Sauron who stands before Gandalf and Aragon alone and reveals that they and their army are powerless before the voice of his master. There is no place for a trickster in Tolkien's Catholic Paganism; he cannot imagine a being capable of reducing Sauron to the butt of jokes. If such a figure reduced The Adversary in this way, it would free us of our dependence on Jesus to save us from him. This is because Sauron secretly is God the Father to whom Jesus teaches us to submit. Without an invincible adversary to whom this world belongs, the hope that is deferred to the coming of God's Kingdom is present here and now. e: a slight correction: there is a trickster in Tolkein, Tom Bombadil, and he is by far the most powerful character; the only one to who the Ring is merely a shiny physical object. This is specifically because the ring is Power, the death drive, and the Trickster's humour provides the "ironic distance" which effortlessly provides freedom from it. Tolkien had no idea what to do with this character who rendered his entire story redundant, so he locked him away safely in his homestead. You're dead wrong, SMG- pun intended. Christ, we are constantly reminded, must die. He provides no freedom from power; because he is all the things we must pay lip service to and dispense with, and so he is the sacrificial lamb who dies for its sake. If only he would return! Oh, but then we would have to kill him again, alas! If we follow him, we must die, how dreadful! This enemy of power who teaches those who resist that they must die and become the symbols of its dominance; with such a wondeful trick being played, who needs a Trickster? e: in fairness, I suspect you prefer Superman to Christ. Superman dies, then comes back. Unlike Christ, he then refuses to go back to heaven. Superman is pretty boss. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Jul 22, 2016 |
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Jul 22, 2016 04:25
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Oh god, three posts in a row. I apologize to anyone who isn't into this discussion  SuperMechagodzilla posted:My issue is that you're paying lip service to the Spiderman character's altruism (he fights crime or whatever), before proceeding to write volumes about the 'inner journey', wherein the battles against the goblin are merely an externalization of the quest for spiritual self-mastery or something. Spiderman learns, in a 'self-help' sort of way, to cope with the stresses of the workplace and of student life. No, the Goblin is the Osborns, his closest friend and that friend's father, the "social network" which capitalism prescribes as the path to success. Their incarnation as an inner struggle is the black Spider-suit, which re-emerges as an external force once he has banished it from within himself. Which is redundant with the Osborns, but simply makes his three greatest foes capitalism. The element that undermines this is the recent trend towards aligning Spider-Man with Stark- a "good capitalist" (or at least a well intentioned one) explicitly contrasted in the comic Civil War storyline with "bad capitalist" Osborn. Prior to this, Spider-Man had briefly joined the Avengers, but was represented as not working well in the team and quitting it. Then again, my understanding is that his friendship with Stark was not exactly portrayed as a positive force in his life. But then again, Superman fights "bad capitalist" Luthor (originally his childhood friend pre-Crisis) and allies with "good capitalist" Wayne. I'd agree that in BvS, Wayne is presented as wayward and redeemed by Superman; but how much can we cheer the rehabilitation of the "good capitalist" oligarch? quote:What you miss in this Hamatsa ceremony is the role of the audience (who, I presume, are also the kidnappers) - whose approval is sought. The power is not at all the initiate's, but the cultural community's, and his role is one of total subordination to them. (See: Zizek's analysis of the Amish rumspringa. It's the same deal.) And this is why Kick-rear end, satirizing Spiderman, makes the character a very literal star on social media, youtube, etc. I'd call that a similar case of 'dancing for your kidnappers'. As I said, the audience is the initiate's community and the assemblage of other local communities. He does indeed perform for their approval, for the purposes of creating a social contract in which he adopts a leadership role. The key point is that those present are given gifts and obligated to recount the ceremony to others- in Salish cultures, the economy ran on gifts and the reciprocal debts they create. Not to lionize this culture; the other engine of their economy was slavery, and there are account of suicides over the shame created by inability to repay a gift. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Jul 22, 2016 |
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Jul 22, 2016 07:59
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:My issue is that you're paying lip service to the Spiderman character's altruism (he fights crime or whatever), before proceeding to write volumes about the 'inner journey', wherein the battles against the goblin are merely an externalization of the quest for spiritual self-mastery or something. Spiderman learns, in a 'self-help' sort of way, to cope with the stresses of the workplace and of student life. Spider-man has a hyphen in it
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Jul 22, 2016 08:19
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