Independence Day 2: Resturgeonce

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Which Thread Title shall we name this new thread? This poll is closed.
Independence Day 2: Resturgeonce	44	21.36%
ScotPol - Unclustering this gently caress	19	9.22%
Trainspotting 2: Independence is my heroin	9	4.37%
Indyref II: Boris hosed a Dead Country	14	6.80%
ScotPol: Wings over Bullshit	8	3.88%
Independence 2: Cameron Lied, UK Died	24	11.65%
Scotpol IV: I Vow To Flee My Country	14	6.80%
ScotPol - A twice in a generation thread	17	8.25%
ScotPol - Where Everything's hosed Up and the Referendums Don't Matter	15	7.28%
ScotPol Thread: Dependence Referendum Incoming	2	0.97%
Indyref II: The Scottish Insturgeoncy	10	4.85%
ScotPol Thread: Act of European Union	5	2.43%
ScotPol - Like Game of Thrones only we wish we would all die	25	12.14%
Total:	206 votes

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

duckmaster posted:

Which means Scotland needs to become a Crown Dependency, except not of the UK because they won't be in the UK. A dependency of the Netherlands or Spain perhaps.

Among EU members, Denmark would clearly be the most appropriate. Not only are there historical links, we bring experience with North Atlantic dependencies to the table.

# ? Jul 21, 2016 15:58

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# ? May 10, 2024 17:51

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Who's up for declaring ~~Scottish~~Greater Faroese Peninsulan inependence?

# ? Jul 21, 2016 18:43

Reveilled: Apr 19, 2007; Take up your rifles

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Among EU members, Denmark would clearly be the most appropriate. Not only are there historical links, we bring experience with North Atlantic dependencies to the table.

We'd insist on ruining your flag though:

# ? Jul 21, 2016 23:17

big scary monsters: Sep 2, 2011; -~Ｓｋｕｌｌｗａｖｅ~-

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Among EU members, Denmark would clearly be the most appropriate. Not only are there historical links, we bring experience with North Atlantic dependencies to the table.

Denmark seemed pretty miserable while I was there - grey, rained a lot, people all looked glum. Basically it and Scotland would be a perfect fit.

# ? Jul 21, 2016 23:36

Angepain: Jul 13, 2012; what keeps happening to my clothes

Also we're both used to our immediate neighbours being completely unable to understand our crazy accents

# ? Jul 22, 2016 00:21

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Looking forward to Coohoolin writing the relevant additional verse to the buggery on the oresund song.

# ? Jul 22, 2016 02:09

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

big scary monsters posted:

Denmark seemed pretty miserable while I was there - grey, rained a lot, people all looked glum. Basically it and Scotland would be a perfect fit.

I was in Copenhagen recently and I rate it "not as nice as Oslo".

# ? Jul 22, 2016 03:22

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

While I don't think this is as damning as the Herald wants it to be - using historical papers rather than new analysis isn't itself particularly awful - it definitely smacks of the civil service being given the answer first and told to justify it. 5 days is a ridiculously short amount of time to produce a paper on something like this, and 4 pages to "analyse" a major economic policy is absurd. It also smacks of politicians being blatantly misleading about the strength and quality of the grounds their own argument is based on, but that's a given (see also, "we have taken legal advice")

SNP Government analysis behind 50p tax policy branded a 'fiction'

quote:

ANALYSIS behind the SNP Government’s policy of freezing the top rate of income tax was produced in less than a week and was not based on new research.

Emails reveal one of the studies that the ministerial document drew on was a paper written by a former adviser to former US President George Bush’s administration.

Labour MSP Jackie Baillie said: “The First Minister gave the impression that extensive research had been conducted inside Government to justify freezing the top rate of tax. It now appears that was a fiction.”

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon went into the Holyrood election campaign in April facing questions about what her tax plans would be in the event of a victory.

Labour had promised to use the Parliament’s imminent control of income tax to back an increase in the top rate from 45p to 50p.

Ms Sturgeon had backed a 50p rate at last year’s General Election, but performed a U-turn days before the Holyrood campaign started.

On March 22, the Scottish Government published a paper claiming that a rise in the “additional” rate – covering income over £150,000 – could lead to a loss of revenue.

In an election debate that centred on tax, Ms Sturgeon explained: “I have got independent civil service analysis saying it might lose us £30 million.”

However, the thoroughness of the four-page document has been questioned.

According to the Government, civil servants were commissioned to carry out the work on March 17 – leaving five days between the project beginning and publication.

The exercise did not lead to any new research or economic modelling, but instead depended on historical work.

Internal civil service emails reveal ten existing papers, two of which related directly to Scotland, fed into the process.

One of the papers – “The Elasticity of Taxable Income during the 1990s” – was published six years ago and written by Seth Giertz, who now teaches at the University of Texas.

In 2005, Giertz served as a staff economist for President George W Bush’s Advisory Panel on Federal Tax Reform.

A 2012 paper by Her Majesty’s Revenues and Customs was also used as part of the review.

This document , which was in the public domain when the SNP backed a 50p tax policy ahead of the general election, helped the Tory Government justify a cut to the top rate:

“The conclusion that can be drawn from the Self Assessment data is therefore that the underlying yield from the [50p] rate is much lower than originally forecast (yielding around £1 billion or less), and that it is quite possible that it could be negative.”

Patrick Harvie, the Scottish Greens’ co-convener, said: “The SNP's reluctance to set progressive tax rates surprised many of their supporters, and if it was based on nothing more than old studies hastily cobbled together, it's really not defensible.

“The SNP doesn’t have a parliamentary majority and we are willing to work with them to create a fair tax policy which prevents Tory cuts and builds a more equal society. When budget time comes around, those will be our priorities.”

A Scottish Government spokesman said implications of different policy options had been considered “over many years” and the commission date for the analysis “does not reflect when the Scottish Government started thinking about its income tax policy”.

# ? Jul 22, 2016 08:32

Prince John: Jun 20, 2006; Oh, poppycock! Female bandits?

Niric posted:

While I don't think this is as damning as the Herald wants it to be - using historical papers rather than new analysis isn't itself particularly awful - it definitely smacks of the civil service being given the answer first and told to justify it. 5 days is a ridiculously short amount of time to produce a paper on something like this, and 4 pages to "analyse" a major economic policy is absurd. It also smacks of politicians being blatantly misleading about the strength and quality of the grounds their own argument is based on, but that's a given (see also, "we have taken legal advice")

SNP Government analysis behind 50p tax policy branded a 'fiction'

Agreed.

quote:

A 2012 paper by Her Majesty�s Revenues and Customs was also used as part of the review.

This document , which was in the public domain when the SNP backed a 50p tax policy ahead of the general election, helped the Tory Government justify a cut to the top rate:

�The conclusion that can be drawn from the Self Assessment data is therefore that the underlying yield from the [50p] rate is much lower than originally forecast (yielding around �1 billion or less), and that it is quite possible that it could be negative.�

Patrick Harvie, the Scottish Greens� co-convener, said: �The SNP's reluctance to set progressive tax rates surprised many of their supporters, and if it was based on nothing more than old studies hastily cobbled together, it's really not defensible.

I remember reading this paper when we were debating the original reduction and there's no reason why it would suddenly be obsolete 4 years later.

# ? Jul 22, 2016 09:25

Extreme0: Feb 28, 2013; I dance to the sweet tune of your failure so I'm never gonna stop fucking with you.

Continue to get confused and frustrated with me as I dance to your anger.

As I expect nothing more from ya you stupid runt!

I think we should head to Mare Devcalidonivm for our next goon meet.

The article of 'no poo poo'

Surprised they are actually going for it considering what's happened recently.

Edinburgh Oil Firm accused of human rights abuses in Africa.

New Flavour thanks to the Tories once again showing they have no respect for traditonal value

quote:

FOR more than 100 years its makers have steadfastly refused to give away details of the secret ingredient in Scotland�s other national drink. And while the recipe will continue to remain a mystery, the makers of Irn-Bru have created a new version of the UK�s third most popular soft drink, the first for 35 years.

AG Barr is to launch a sugar-free alternative � Irn-Bru Extra � which will be available to consumers from next month. The Cumbernauld-based firm already has a sugarless variant but said the latest drink would contain �extra flavour�. It follows the announcement in March that a sugar tax is to be imposed on the soft drinks industry across the UK. Irn-Bru is among the fizzy drinks which will be subject to the highest tax band because it contains more than 8g of sugar per 100 millilitres.

The company, which confirmed earlier this year it would be focusing more on low or no sugar drinks in the future, said the idea for its latest creation had been on the table for �well over a year�.Public health leaders welcomed the decision, saying it demonstrated that the company was taking account of growing evidence on the adverse impact of sugar on weight and oral health in children.

Dr Emilia Crighton, director of public health at NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde said: �We continue to see the effects of poor diets across Greater Glasgow and Clyde and the increasing impact this has on our services in the form of diabetes.�People are aware of obesity, but we still have work to do in helping them take the right steps to either avoid it or tackle the effects.

�Soft drinks are the largest single source of sugar for children � they account for 29 per cent of the sugar consumption for 10 to 18-year-olds. �Given this, I welcome the addition of a new sugar-free version of a very popular soft drink. This demonstrates that the company is taking account of the emerging evidence regarding the impact sugar has on weight gain and oral health in children.�

Soft drinks are the largest single source of sugar for children � accounting for almost one-third of consumption.
Irn-Bru is the third top-selling soft drink in the UK overall, with Pepsi and Coca-Cola occupying the top two spots.

Barr�s said the new drink had been created using the company�s distinctive recipe but would offer consumers �extra taste and no sugar�. It is only the third permanent variant to be added to the range since the drink was launched in 1901.

Adrian Troy, head of marketing for the firm, said: �It�s clear that the market is changing and consumers want more choice. �We�ve listened to this and have worked incredibly hard to not only develop Irn-Bru Extra, but to make it available to buy this summer.�

Alex Rowley saying that he supports another referendum.

quote:

SCOTTISH Labour�s deputy leader wants independence to be included in a new national conversation on Scotland�s future following the Brexit vote and said he would not oppose a second referendum.

Alex Rowley also said he would continue to support Jeremy Corbyn and revealed he had voted for him in the UK party leadership contest.

�The issue is now in the hands of our membership. I voted for Jeremy Corbyn and I will be voting for him again,� he told The National.

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has raised the prospect of another vote on independence to protect Scotland�s place in the European Union after a majority of UK voters backed leaving, while Scots voted overwhelmingly to remain.

Rowley, who is at odds with his boss Kezia Dugdale over Corbyn continuing as leader, said he wanted to open up a national discussion about what would be the best way forward for Scotland.

�The First Minister has made clear that independence is on the table, and if you are going to have an open, informed and honest discussion about the options available, then that must include every option,� said the Mid Scotland and Fife MSP. �It�s my intention to have dis- cussion forums across the area I represent but we need to have these discussions across Scotland. �The Tories have got us into this mess and the implications of Brexit are massive. "It�s about our children�s and our grandchildren�s future and we need to consider what is best for Scotland.�

Rowley also said: �I have lost count of the number of people who have asked whether I support a second referendum on independence. My response is that I would not oppose such a referendum.

�I accept the SNP were clear in their manifesto that the Scottish Parliament would have the right to hold another one if there was a �significant and material change� in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014 � such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will.�
He added that it remained �an unknown quantity� what the UK will look like outside of the EU, meaning that another referendum would be �a very different proposition� from the 2014 vote.

Rowley said: �It is difficult to assess what will be in the best interests of the people of Scotland but we can set some guiding principles. These should include what is best in terms of our economy and jobs, pensions and dignity in retirement, free high quality education, health and public services and the security of our nation.�

SNP MSP Linda Fabiani said: �These are welcome comments from Scottish Labour�s deputy leader � making clear that the Scottish Parliament has the right to hold an independence referendum if it becomes clear this is the best or only way to protect Scotland�s place in Europe, and that he would not oppose such a referendum. �Alex Rowley is also absolutely right to point out that any such referendum would be a completely different prospect from the 2014 referendum � the fact is that the UK which Scotland voted to stay part of two years ago simply doesn�t exist any more in the aftermath of the Brexit vote.�

Scottish Labour MP and the party�s Westminster spokesman Ian Murray will call on the UK Government today to fully involve the Scottish Government and other devolved nations in the Brexit negotiations.

�The Scottish people have given the UK and Scottish Governments two mandates that must be respected. They have voted in overwhelming numbers to maintain our relationship with both the UK and the EU,� he will tell a Commons debate. �We have given Nicola Sturgeon our support to find a deal that meets the needs of the people of Scotland, and we welcomed Theresa May�s statement that she is seeking a cross-UK position on negotiations with the EU. "It is essential that any negotiations fully involve not just the Scottish Government, but the Welsh and Northern Irish Governments and the London Assembly. � On Sunday, Brexit Secretary David Davis said Scotland could not remain a member of both the UK and the EU.

Was bound to happen. SNP hits record level with their membership after the EU referendum

quote:

MEMBERSHIP of the Scottish National Party has soared to more than 120,000 following the EU referendum.

The SNP revealed yesterday that party membership has increased by 4,000 since the June 23 referendum in which the UK voted to leave the EU. All 32 local authority areas in Scotland voted to Remain with the national figure of 62 per cent in contrast to the overall UK result in which 51.9 per cent voted for Brexit. The SNP enjoyed a massive surge in membership before and especially after the 2014 independence referendum. In 2013 the party had just over 20,000 members, but that number rose to 100,000 within months of the No vote in September, 2014, and has risen again since the vote for Brexit.

The rise in membership puts the SNP within hailing distance of overhauling the UK Conservative Party � thought to have less than 150,000 members � to become Britain�s second largest political party by membership. Labour has in excess of 500,000 members with the pro-Corbyn surge adding 183,000 in recent days, but the SNP is far ahead of the UK Greens and Liberal Democrats, both thought to have under 70,000 members.

The SNP�s business convener, Derek Mackay MSP, said: �With membership now over 120,000, [it puts] the party in a strong position as we deliver our ambitious manifesto in government and lead the opposition to the Tories at Westminster. �This extraordinary increase in membership makes clear that it is the SNP which people trust to stand up for Scotland�s best interests � in contrast to a Labour party in complete disarray north and south of the Border, and a Tory party which has taken Scotland to the brink of being dragged out of the EU.

�That membership has grown substantially since the EU referendum vote is testament to the strength of feeling in Scotland that we must not be dragged out of Europe against our will � and the SNP in government will continue to explore every option to maintain our EU status.�

Scottish Fishermen are going to get a reality slap after telling the Tories to consider them again in EU talks.

quote:

Scottish fishermen have warned that they must not be regarded as "expendable" again as Brexit negotiators seek to maintain the UK's trade and economic ties with Europe. The Scottish Fishermen's Federation said Brexit presents "a unique opportunity for the UK to re-establish itself as major fishing nation".Bertie Armstrong, SFF chief executive, described EU membership as "a bad mistake" which brought "serious disadvantage for our fishing industry and coastal communities".

He recalled how Scottish fishermen were "regarded as expendable" in negotiations to enter the European Community in the early 1970s, according to UK Government files unsealed decades later.Mr Armstrong said fishermen were "seriously damaged in the cause of EU entry" and "must not be damaged again in the cause of EU exit".

Prime Minister Theresa May has stressed that the UK may be leaving the EU but it is "not leaving Europe" and said she is keen to maintain trade and economic links. But European Council president Donald Tusk has warned there will be "no single market a la carte" and Britain would have to accept the four pillars of free movement of people, labour, capital and goods if it wants access. Holyrood's European and External Affairs Committee is holding emergency sessions during parliament recess to discuss the implications to Scotland of Brexit. In a submission ahead of his appearance on Thursday, Mr Armstrong said: "The Scottish fishing sector is delighted and full of hope that Brexit will restore to the UK the normal rights and responsibilities for fishing enjoyed by all coastal states in their own sea space.

"A glance at the history will illustrate why this is the right thing to do. "It is no small thing and will rectify an initial bad mistake that evolved into a situation of serious disadvantage for our fishing industry and coastal communities. "Regarding the history, the UK along with Ireland and Denmark joined in 1973 what was then the European Economic Community, taking the membership count from six to nine. "In the give-and-take negotiation over joining conditions, access to fishing was made collective with UK fishing famously noted by the government of the day as 'expendable'."

Get hosed by a windmill Trump

quote:

A SWEDISH power company is to invest more than �300 million in building Scotland�s largest offshore wind test and demonstration facility, a project that was fought by US Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump. Vattenfall said it would now focus on construction of the 11-turbine Aberdeen Offshore Wind Farm project and �help establish the north-east as an international centre for offshore wind innovation�. Trump complained that the development would spoil the view from his golf resort at the Menie estate outside Aberdeen � but he lost a Supreme Court bid to stop it going ahead.

Onshore construction work near Blackdog, Aberdeenshire, will start this year and offshore work will begin in late 2017. Power should be generated by spring 2018 and the windfarm is expected to operate for 20 years or more. Vattenfall said it was now the sole owner of Aberdeen Offshore Wind Farm Limited, the company behind the European Offshore Wind Deployment Centre (EOWDC), after it acquired Aberdeen Renewable Energy Group�s 25 per cent share.

Gunnar Groebler, a senior vice-president with the Swedish company, said: �Vattenfall, Aberdeen Renewable Energy Group, the Crown Estate, the Scottish Government and many others have been working since consent in 2013 to deliver the project and support the increasing competitiveness of the offshore wind sector. �Now the Vattenfall team and our contractors will focus on building the project safely and help establish the north-east of Scotland as an international centre for offshore wind innovation. �Vattenfall�s green light for the EOWDC underlines our long-term ambition to grow our wind-power capacity, including in the UK.�

Paul Wheelhouse, minister for business, innovation and energy, was among those to welcome the project. He said: �This is great news for the industry. Scotland is admired around the world for our work in renewable energy. �This project will keep our nation at the forefront of innovation by allowing energy companies to identify new ways to reduce operating costs. �We are working hard to ensure offshore wind projects can help generate the low-carbon electricity supply Scotland needs and the associated high-quality engineering jobs Scotland wants.�

WWF Scotland�s climate and energy policy officer, Fabrice Leveque, said: �This is very positive news and provides a welcome boost to Scotland�s offshore wind sector. Scotland has 25 per cent of Europe�s offshore wind resource and this new development provides a great opportunity to progress on capturing the benefits at lowest cost and least impact to the environment.�

Scottish Greens co-convener Patrick Harvie said: �This investment really is welcome news for the north-east and for Scotland, especially in a week where the UK Government abolished the DECC, the department responsible for dealing with climate change, and details of the scrapping of a carbon-capture scheme in Peterhead came to light. �The Green group of MSPs will continue to pressure the Scottish Government to live up to its Paris agreement obligations while demonstrating that this type of offshore wind energy provides a safer and more viable energy option than fracking and old fossil-fuel methods.�

Lindsay Roberts, senior policy manager at Scottish Renewables, said: �We have one of the best offshore wind resources in Europe and it is hugely exciting to see development happening in our waters right now, with hundreds of jobs in offshore wind created in recent months in Campbeltown, Nigg and Wick.�

# ? Jul 23, 2016 13:23

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

I imagine most people here look at the UKMT, but cross posting anyway as this thread isn't exactly bursting with life!

quote:

Jedit posted:
1442 new council houses in 2015-16, woo. Get to 14,000 new builds and we'll start talking.

I'm not going to dip into witless pedantry by saying Right to Buy hasn't stopped yet because it ends in 7 days, but the SNP did set it up so they could sell as much of the old housing stock as possible before closing the scheme down. Discounts continued to increase and everyone had I think it was four years to take up the offer. The suspension of RTB was also a blatant sop - Scottish council tenants have secure tenancies; stopping them buying their homes did absolutely nothing to relieve demand.

Your post led me to the official statistics for house building in Scotland, which show some interesting variations. While local authority house building specifically is higher than it has been since the late 80s, the overall number of new dwellings per year under the SNP is significantly lower than any period going back to the start of the data in 1980 (n.b. the SNP came to power in 2007, right before the financial crisis). This drop has occurred in both the private and social sectors, with housing association building - which still dwarfs local authority building - falling rapidly under the SNP.

Purely anecdotally this surprises me, since there appears to be (and have been) a lot of visible HA building in Glasgow over the last few years, especially New Gorbals and Scotstoun - it's worth noting the stats only go to Q4 2015, although I don't think it's all that credible that there's been an explosion of building in 2016 specifically. It also seems (again anecdotally) like there's been a huge amount of student accommodation going up in partick/along the kelvin in the last 4 or 5 years, but I don't know if that sort of thing contributes towards the above figures.

# ? Jul 24, 2016 15:26

marktheando: Nov 4, 2006

If Jedit said the SNP were pro independence I'd ask for another source.

We got any Indy ref 2 polls?

# ? Jul 24, 2016 16:11

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

marktheando posted:

If Jedit said the SNP were pro independence I'd ask for another source.

We got any Indy ref 2 polls?

If anything, Jedit is being charitable to the SNP there. Decontextualised, the very welcome and necessary council house building, however limited, is still a marked improvement on prior administrations and it's easy to see how and why it's being used to score political points. If you look at overall figures for the sector however, it's much harder to conclude that under the SNP the housing situation has improved.

As for polling, the comprehensive What Scotland Thinks (feat. everyone's favourite rock star pollster John Curtice) doesn't appear to have been updated since May. While there's been a couple of polls these were both immediately following the EUref, so I'm sceptical how indicative these are. There's been several polls showing a majority in favour of a second referendum, but that seems to be about it.

# ? Jul 24, 2016 17:16

Extreme0: Feb 28, 2013; I dance to the sweet tune of your failure so I'm never gonna stop fucking with you.

Continue to get confused and frustrated with me as I dance to your anger.

As I expect nothing more from ya you stupid runt!

STV may be a thing? I mean if the SNP aren't loving about like they usually do.

quote:

HOLYROOD'S combination of constituency and regional MSPs could be ended under plans due to be debated by the SNP.

Members have tabled a motion for the party's conference in October calling for future elections to be fought under the fully proportional single transferable vote system (STV). The move would end the present hybrid system which elects two kinds of MSP, with 73 of the 129 representing constituencies and the remaining 56 in eight electoral regions.

Supporters say switching to STV would be simpler for voters, who face different systems in Holyrood, Westminster, European and council elections. They also say it would make the parliament more accountable to voters because all MSPs would have to win a personal mandate from the electorate. At present, voters pick a party to represent them in the regional vote. Individual candidates appear on lists controlled by the parties under what is known as the "additional member" system.

The motion has been submitted by the Aberdeen South and North Kincardine constituency association and has been included in a draft conference agenda seen by The Herald. MaureenWatt, the MSP for Aberdeen South and North Kincardine and public health minister in the Scottish Government, said the call had come from grassroots members, though she was also personally sympathetic to making the change. She said: "I think we have moved on from 1999 when Labour and the Lib Dems viewed regional MSPs as second class MSPs, and I think people now know that have not one MSP but eight. "But I've always believed we should look at reform of the voting system."

The present system has been used since the creation of the parliament in 1999, though constituency boundaries have been redrawn since then. The new Scotland Act gives Holyrood control over the election process, which was previously reserved to Westminster. The conference motion states that "implementing STV in Scottish elections would remove an element of complexity from Scottish elections by reducing the number of electoral systems, help to raise turnout and ensure all MSPs must win a personal mandate from voters".

It does not set out the new system in detail. However, an STV parliament would probably require more but smaller constituencies or a multi-member constituencies, similar to council elections. It is unclear whether STV would give the SNP and electoral advantage compared with the present hybrid arrangement. In the last Scottish election in May, the party secured 63 of Holyrood's 129 seats - 49 per cent of the total - after winning 47 per cent of the constituency vote and 42 per cent of the regional ballot. The party won its 59 constituency seats by such large margins it was able to pick up only four regional seats across the whole of Scotland. Five years earlier, then-leader Alex Salmond won 69 seats - 53 per cent of the total - with 45 per cent of the constituency vote and 44 per cent of the regional vote. Gaining an outright majority under those circumstances was widely seen as "breaking" the semi-proportional Holyrood system.

List of Demands from the Scottish Government over Brexit and a Second Indyref

quote:

NICOLA Sturgeon will today set out five key Brexit tests that could determine whether Scotland faces a second independence referendum within the next two years. The First Minister will use a major speech in Edinburgh to list the "Scottish interests" she believes must be preserved as the UK withdraws from the Brussels bloc. They include the need to ensure "Scotland's voice is heard and our wishes respected" - a reference to the referendum on June 23 when a majority of Scots voted to remain part of the EU.

With the UK Government having already having poured cold water on the idea of a Brexit deal that would allow Scotland to remain in the EU, Ms Sturgeon's words will be seen as bringing a re-run of the 2014 vote a step closer. The First Minister has previously said "remain means remains" and insists independence must be an option for preserving Scotland's relationship with the EU. She believes a second referendum is "highly likely" following Brexit, provided support for independence remains high.

Her key tests will be set out in a speech to the Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) think tank. It comes after Russell Gunson, the head of IPPR Scotland, said Unionists should take the lead in finding options to maintain the Scotland's relationship with the EU, as a solution could require reform of the whole of the UK. In other developments yesterday, oil tycoon Sir Ian Wood urged Ms Sturgeon not to call a second independence referendum and Alan Cumming, the actor and Yes campaigner, caused an outcry when he blamed Brexit on "stupid English people".

In her speech - titled Scotland's future in the EU - Ms Sturgeon will reflect on the campaign and the reasons behind the result. She will also discuss the forthcoming Brexit negotiations, in which the Scottish Government had been promised a role. The First Minister is expected to say: "I am determined that we find or create the options that best preserve the five key interests that depend on our relationship with the EU.

"Our democratic interests - the need to make sure Scotland�s voice is heard and our wishes respected.

"Our economic interests - safeguarding free movement of labour, access to a single market of 500 million people and the funding that our farmers and universities depend on.

"Our interests in social protection - ensuring the continued protection of workers� and wider human rights.

"Our interest in solidarity - the ability of independent nations to come together for the common good of all our citizens, to tackle crime and terrorism and deal with global challenges like climate change.

"And our interest in having influence - making sure that we don't just have to abide by the rules of the single market but also have a say in shaping them."

Ms Sturgeon will promise to "explore every avenue and every option" for meeting the five tests.

But Murdo Fraser, the Scots Tories' finance spokesman, urged her to rule out independence. "It is right that the Scottish Government should be examining how best to further our interests as the UK begins negotiations with the EU. "However, as two million Scots agreed in 2014, leaving the UK is not in Scotland's interests, and the Scottish Government should therefore end its flirtation with yet another divisive referendum on independence," he said.

In a Sunday newspaper article, Mr Gunson wrote: "It is those across the UK who do not wish to see Scottish independence, or those open to exploring all the options, who will need to come forward with other options." The options "need to be explored with equal vigour and rigour by both the UK and Scottish governments", he said. "The latter is certainly giving the impression of being up for exploring all the options, but without a genuine commitment in the rest of the UK, and without significant reform to Britain as a whole, a tailored approach to Brexit will not be deliverable. "And with that, Scotland's options would be narrowed significantly."

North Sea oil tycoon Sir Ian Wood says no to second Scottish independence referendum

quote:

SIR Ian Wood, the North Sea oil tycoon, has urged Nicola Sturgeon not to call a second independence referendum, as the SNP continued to prepare the ground for a re-run of the 2014 vote. The businessman warned Scotland would face a lengthy and uncertain process to join the EU as a member state in its own right and, even then, would enjoy "very little influence" in Brussels. His comments came as the SNP continued to press the case for independence, despite putting a long-promised summer campaign on the back-burner.

The Herald's sister paper, the Sunday Herald, revealed the drive had been delayed until the autumn amid uncertainty over the SNP's position on key policies such as the currency an independent Scotland might use. Nevertheless, in an intervention with an eye firmly on a future independence campaign, Angus Robertson, the party's Westminster leader, claimed Scotland had been "ignored, outvoted or overruled" in a dozen key decisions over the past 12 months. They included the result of the 2015 General Election and June's EU referendum.

"Scotland faces a deep, growing and increasingly obvious democratic deficit at Westminster as our politics continue to diverge from the rest of the UK," he said. Mr Robertson, a candidate in his party's deputy leadership contest, hit out as it emerged grassroots pro-independence groups were set to step up campaigning in the absence of an official SNP initiative.

But wharning against another referendum, Sir Ian told a Sunday newspaper: "We've got to give very careful thought to being a small independent member of the EU. "It is one thing to talk about whether the UK is in Europe or not. It's another thing entirely to say Scotland should be on its own in the EU." He said Scotland would enjoy little of the UK's former influence within the EU. "Scotland would have to vote for independence and then apply to join the EU and this is a long process and one that would be damaging, with a lot of uncertainty for the oil and gas industry. "Also, in voting for independence, we would not know what the conditions of our European entry would be.

"I was in favour of remaining in the EU. "I have this idea we are becoming too divisive in the world. Everyone wants to be independent but I think bigger economic units are more successful. "We actually have to be better at living and working together."

His comments were welcomed by Murdo Fraser, the Scots Tory MSP, who said: "Sir Ian Wood is speaking for many many families and firms across Scotland who know that our future is more secure as part of the UK family of nations.

Barnett? Never knew her

quote:

THE MP challenging Jeremy Corbyn for the Labour leadership has been criticised for his stance on the Barnett Formula after it emerged he said the funding deal had �seen its day�.

Owen Smith also said during a debate at Westminster that he backed a �fairer� funding package across the UK. SNP MSP James Dornan said the comments were �deeply disturbing". Corbyn is facing a leadership contest after dozens of his parliamentary colleagues said they had no confidence in his ability to win a general election Smith, an MP for a Welsh constituency since 2010, has positioned himself as a soft-left candidate and is perceived to be the underdog in the race.

However, both candidates are facing questions about the Barnett Formula, which has allowed Scotland to build up a sizeable per-head spending advantage over English regions. Dave Anderson, a Corbyn ally and Shadow Scotland Secretary, was revealed to have made critical remarks about the funding scheme in the past. Smith, who is expected to receive the support of a majority of Labour MSPs, can also be revealed as a Barnett sceptic.

In a debate in 2011, he said that any move to a needs-based funding system � Barnett is focused on population size � would be �very difficult�. However, he said: �I, too, would be "happier" if we went to a needs-based formula; I will concede that much. He added: �I simply add that at last we agree across this House that a fairer funding formula ought to be pursued and that Barnett has seen its day. I therefore commend the Government for considering how we might do something important about it in the future.�

And in January 2014, when asked about the Barnett Formula on TV programme Sharp End, Smith said: �We should be pledging to look at funding across the UK.� He also said: �We do need to review our funding mechanisms.� However, weeks later, he wrote a piece praising the impact of the formula on Wales: �Though Barnett may be flawed, it still provides us with �112 for every �100 of English public spending.�

Although the Scottish Parliament is to gain substantial extra tax powers from April next year, a large chunk of Holyrood�s budget will still be determined by the formula. Scrapping Barnett with a needs-based system could potentially result in cuts to the Parliament�s budget.

Dornan said: �It is deeply disturbing that senior Westminster figures continue to raise the spectre of getting rid of the Barnett formula - contrary to all promises made to Scotland during the referendum. This isn�t just a few right-wing Tory backbenchers � but now a series of prominent figures on both Labour and Tory front benches, including Labour's Shadow Scottish Secretary and one of their leadership candidates. �And given that we know Kezia Dugdale will likely be backing Owen Smith for the Labour leadership, she now needs to come clean and admit whether she agrees with his plans to cut Scotland�s budget."

Smith�s press team could not be reached.

Stop right there criminal scum!

quote:

More than 500 cases have been heard in Scottish courts as a result of the European arrest warrant (EAW), Crown Office figures show. The European Union (EU) justice measure has also seen 367 people extradited from Scotland to face courts in Europe, according to figures obtained by the Scottish Parliament Information Centre (Spice).

The SNP say these cases may not have been possible without the co-operation of fellow EU member states and urged Prime Minister Theresa May to maintain cross-border co-operation on justice following the Brexit vote. SNP MSP Ben Macpherson, a member of the Scottish Parliament's Justice Committee, said: "The EAW is a perfect example of how working together with our friends and allies in Europe helps keep us safer - and that this has been put at risk thanks to the irresponsible actions of the Tory government is simply unacceptable." He said the 541 cases heard in courts in Scotland as a result of the EAW "might not have been possible without the co-operation and support of other European nations". "That this is being put at risk demonstrates the absolute folly of Scotland possibly being dragged out of Europe against our will," he said.

"Nicola Sturgeon has been clear that she is exploring all options to keep Scotland's place in the EU - including independence if that's what it takes - and, in the meantime, Theresa May must confirm that she will do everything she can to ensure that this vital cross-border co-operation on law and order continues."

Considering the history, I wouldn't want my children near Westminister

quote:

AN SNP MP has been cautioned after taking her two young children into a Westminster committee meeting. Kirsty Blackman was censured by Parliament staff after she was forced to take her four-year-old son Harris and two-year-old daughter Rebecca to a discussion on English Votes for English Laws (EVEL) after being unable to find childcare in London.

As Scottish schools and nurseries closed for summer at the end of June, weeks before the parliamentary recess, the Aberdeen North representative had no choice but to take her children into parliament on Monday and Tuesday of last week. The pair sat in an office while their mother voted against the renewal of Trident, then made history as the first children to sit in on a select committee meeting on Tuesday. After that meeting, which saw toddler Rebecca sat on Kirsty's lap, the married 30-year-old received a caution from clerks for breaching rules.

Speaking to Scotland on Sunday, Mrs Blackman said: �What am I supposed to do with a two year-old? Where am I supposed to leave them? How am I supposed to say to a two-year-old, you need to stay with two people that you don�t know while mummy goes and votes?� Her censure comes as a report on Westminster�s approach to equalities made 41 recommendations, warning that �considerably more needs to be done� on childcare provision. Video footage of the meeting shows Mrs Blackman leaving her seat several times before bringing her daughter to sit on her lap.

Rebecca's contribution to the EVEL discussions consisted of her drawing on a sheet of paper. Mrs Blackman and SNP colleague Alison Thewliss had to break with convention again in the past week, bringing children through the voting lobbies.

Children over a year old are not permitted in the lobbies, while rules were only changed to allow babies to be brought through the lobbies during the last parliament, when Lib Dem MPs Jo Swinson and Duncan Hames had no choice but to carry their son with them to a vote. A spokeswoman for the Speaker�s office said a group chaired by Mr Bercow would consider the report.

Not good news for the Australian Family facing deportation

quote:

AN Australian family who have been battling to stay in Scotland after UK visa regulations changed have been dealt another cruel blow as a second job offer was mysteriously withdrawn a week before their extended grace period expires.And Gregg Brain told The National yesterday: �We are now looking for the proverbial miracle.�

He and wife Kathryn have been living in Dingwall with their seven-year-old son Lachlan for nearly five years, after they sold their house in Australia and moved to Scotland on the strength of Kathryn�s student visa. They had planned to move on to a post-study work visa when Kathryn finished her studies, but new rules scrapping the scheme were announced shortly before they arrived, and came into effect the following year. Kathryn and Gregg then set about trying to find jobs that would enable them to apply for a Tier 2 visa, but the Home Office refused to allow them the right to work.

A firm that had offered her a job in April was forced to pull out of the process, but the family�s hopes rose again last month when farmer and helicopter pilot John Mckenzie was spearheading a crowdfunding bid for the community-owned GlenWyvis Distillery in Dingwall. However, it emerged over the weekend that Kathryn has not been offered the job.

Mckenzie told The National yesterday: �You will be aware that a successful two-month extension was granted to the Brain family�s visa on May 31� the third extension. �The right to work was not restored by the immigration minister however, and the original GlenWyvis post was filled in May. That job was also not Tier 2 compliant.� Mckenzie said that at the start of June there were two jobs and Kathryn had formally applied � and been considered � for the second post. �Indeed GlenWyvis spent a huge amount of time considering a genuine sponsor application process�, he said.

McKenzie previously told The National on June 6 that Kathryn was ideal for the job. He said then: �There�s no one else with a degree in Scottish history and archaeology in Dingwall. I have the site for the [visitor] centre and I�ve designed it, and depending on how much we raise, we can buy it now. But I want to set Kathryn to task on that. We thought she would be allowed to start work straight away, but this is such a bizarre situation where they�re not allowed to earn.

�The result of discussions I�ve had with the experts is that we will sponsor her as GlenWyvis history curator and community share offer senior administrator. We�re going to continue with the sponsorship and we think the visa could be turned round quite quickly.� A May 25 post on the distillery�s Facebook page, featuring a picture of the family, read: �Some of you may have heard about the plight of the Brain family. We are delighted to announce Kathryn is joining the GlenWyvis team immediately (subject to Home Secretary approval!).

On May 31, another post read: �You may have heard of the situation that has emerged regarding Kathryn and Gregg Brain being refused reinstatement of their permits to work. Kathryn is needed to assist the GlenWyvis project NOW � she has a degree in Scottish history and archaeology. By holding back Kathryn�s ability to work a project designed to empower a community is being held back.�

Ian Blackford, the family�s local MP, appealed for local businesses to come forward if they could help. He said: �The Brain family are not asking for special treatment and have only ever expected the UK Government to honour the promises made to them when they were first granted visas to live and work in Scotland in 2010 � and now they desperately need the help of local businesses who may be able to provide them a lifeline.

�The deadline set by the Home Office is looming and I would encourage businesses across the Highlands to get in touch with my constituency office if they might be able to help.�

SNP making Bojo in his new job harder by calling for a ban of UK arms sales to Saudi Arabia

quote:

FOREIGN Secretary Boris Johnson has faced calls from the SNP to introduce an immediate embargo on arms sales to Saudi Arabia and to back an international probe into allegations of human rights abuses in Yemen. The UK has licensed more than �2.8 billion worth of arms sales to Saudi Arabia since the Saudi-led bombing of Yemen began in March 2015, and there are fears that smart bombs with laser-guided systems produced in Fife may have been used in attacks on civilians.

SNP MP Margaret Ferrier today made a fresh call for the launch of an independent international investigation into allegations of humanitarian law breaches, amid mounting evidence that Saudi Arabian forces are supporting Yemen�s government to commit alleged war crimes that have resulted in hundreds of children being killed. The SNP has already accused the UK Government of misleading the public over the crisis after it was forced to retract written and oral statements to parliament which said ministers had assessed that Saudi Arabia was not in breach of international humanitarian law in Yemen.

The admission, on the final day of Parliament before the summer recess, has led to calls by SNP politicians for an investigation into Saudi behaviour in Yemen and a suspension of UK arms sales. The Foreign Office said the incorrect statements � made by three different ministers, some as far back as six months ago � were errors and did not represent an attempt to mislead MPs over its assessment of the Saudi campaign.

Ferrier said the correction of the record in the Commons showed the government had carried out no assessment on whether the Saudi-led coalition was targeting civilians in Yemen. The Rutherglen and Hamilton West MP said that Johnson had a �moral obligation� to a agree to an arms sales ban as she accused the newly appointed Foreign Secretary and the Tory government of having �failed in its duties� to promote human rights.

Ferrier said: �The admission that the UK Government has carried out absolutely no assessment on possible breaches of humanitarian law during the conflict in Yemen is deeply worrying � and makes the case for an international investigation all the more pressing. �It�s time for the international, independent investigation into potential breaches of humanitarian law, which the SNP has long called for � and while this investigation is ongoing, there must be an embargo on the sale of arms to Saudi Arabia to ensure civilians are not targeted in the meantime. �The UK and all members of the international community have a moral obligation to people in Yemen � and by sneaking out corrections like this, it�s clear that this UK Government has completely failed in its duties so far and action must be taken. �It�s time for the UK government and international partners to carry out the assessment on the possible targeting of civilians by Saudi-led forces which MPs were led to believe had already been undertaken, as well as examining other potential breaches of humanitarian law. Failure to do so would be completely unacceptable.�

The Foreign Office, responding to Ferrier, said it had carried out �careful risk assessment� in granting licenses for trade exports to Saudi Arabia. A Foreign Office spokeswoman said: �The UK is committed to finding a peaceful solution to the conflict in Yemen, and hosted talks this week with international partners to drive progress. �We support the UN-led negotiations in Kuwait, and urge all parties to abide by the current Cessation of Hostilities. The clarifications ensure consistency with numerous other Parliamentary responses, and in no way represent a change in policy. �The UK continues to monitor the conflict in Yemen closely, and relevant information gathered from that monitoring is taken into account as part of the careful risk assessment for the licensing of exports to Saudi Arabia.�

John Blowin Away

quote:

CONSERVATION charity the John Muir Trust has lost a major court case against the Scottish Government over a massive wind-farm planned for the Highlands. Three of Scotland�s top judges led by the Lord President, Lord Carloway, overturned an earlier decision by Lord Jones to refuse permission for energy giant SSE to build 67 wind turbines at Stronelairg south of Fort Augustus in the Monadhliath mountains. SSE originally applied in 2012 for planning permission to build 83 turbines at a cost of �300 million near its Glendoe hydro-electric scheme, but was met with a hail of objections, including a strong case against the scheme by environment watchdog Scottish Natural Heritage.

Highland Council approved a reduced scheme in 2013, but the final decision went to the Scottish Ministers, who gave approval for a development of 67 turbines in June 2014. In December last year, Lord Jones said the decision was �defective� and overruled the Government, which he said had not followed the correct processes. It is this decision that was overturned on Friday at the Court of Session. In a judgment delivered by Lord Carloway, the appeal court rejected Lord Jones�s decision, which turned on an obscure part of planning law derived from a European Union regulation.

Lord Carloway stated that the government �held that the energy benefits and the contribution the development would make to sustainable economic growth outweighed the environmental aspects.� He added: �This was a planning judgment which the respondents (the Scottish Ministers) were entitled to make.� The John Muir Trust, which relied on public donations to fight the long-running action, expressed its disappointment at the latest verdict and said it was taking further legal advice and considering its options. If the trust wants to continue the legal battle it will have to ask the Inner House of the Court of Session for leave to appeal to the Supreme Court of the UK in London, as the automatic right to have a Scottish civil appeal heard by the Supreme Court ceased last July.

Stuart Brooks, chief executive of the trust, said: �We are extremely disappointed by the decision. �We took out this legal action reluctantly because of the sheer scale of the development proposed by SSE in an area of wild land, the potential ecological damage to a vast area of peatland, and the breadth of opposition � which included Scottish Natural Heritage, the Cairngorms National Park Authority the Mountaineering Council of Scotland and three out of four local councillors. Objectors outnumbered supporters of the application by 15 to one.

�Lord Jones, in the initial judicial review, found in favour of the trust�s legal arguments that Scottish Government had not followed the correct planning process. The Inner House judges have now disagreed with that assessment. �We are confident that we did the right thing by challenging this decision � standing up against a scheme that could industrialise and decimate a precious area of wild Scotland.�

More than 1000 financial donations had been received from trust members and the public, and the trust is keeping the appeal open as it will have to meet all the expenses after the loss of the case. Minister for Business, Innovation and Energy Paul Wheelhouse has welcomed the judges� decision. He said: �This project will create jobs and generate important economic benefits for the Highlands and Islands economy. �The wind farm is designed to produce electricity equivalent to the needs of more than 100,000 homes � a vital boost at a time when Scotland, the UK and Europe all need to ensure a secure energy supply for the future. �It will also produce a further boost to Scotland�s work in leading international efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.�

SNP call to Protect students from EU states in the exchange program

quote:

THE SNP has made a fresh call to safeguard the European Union�s student exchange programme after figures showed two Scottish universities were the scheme�s top beneficiaries in the UK. Brexit has put the UK�s participation in the 30-year-old Erasmus programme in doubt, and Glasgow Cathcart MSP James Dornan has called for it to be protected so that students and universities can continue to benefit. Official figures show 462 Erasmus students attended the University of Edinburgh in 2014, and a further 460 went to the University of Glasgow, with the University of Sheffield third on 455.

Dornan � who is convenor of the Scottish Parliament�s Education and Skills Committee � said the UK Government should state its commitment to retaining the programme, amid uncertainty about its future as the process of British withdrawal from the EU gets under way. He said: �The Erasmus programme has been hugely beneficial to our universities and students over the years, and it is absolutely vital that the UK Government commits to protecting it following the Brexit vote. �Two of our great universities, Edinburgh and Glasgow, are clear beneficiaries of this programme, being the most popular destinations in the UK for European students using the programme in 2014 � allowing them to enhance their reputations as international centres for learning.

�It is critically important that the UK Government makes a commitment to protect this scheme � which enables Scotland�s universities to be accessed by students from across the continent, showcasing the very best of Scotland and giving them a desire to return and contribute to our economy in future as tourists and residents. �Our students also benefit massively from the opportunity to take a year abroad in Europe, giving them the chance to experience new cultures and ways of learning, whilst becoming more open to different ways of life. The UK Government must make it clear that the Erasmus programme will be protected � so that our universities and our students can continue to benefit and participate in the fantastic scheme.�

In response Jo Johnson, the UK Universities and Science Minister, said: �We understand that there will be questions about how the referendum result affects higher education and research. Many of these questions will need to be considered as part of wider discussion about the UK�s future relationship with the EU, but where we can provide further information we will do so. The UK remains a member of the EU, and we continue to meet our obligations and receive relevant funding.�

Meanwhile, Holyrood�s European Committee will this week hold a rare recess meeting to take evidence on Brexit�s impact on Scotland�s higher education, finance and food and drink sectors. The session follows a visit by the committee to Brussels. MSPs are to take evidence from business leaders and economists about the impact of the Brexit vote on Scotland. Universities Scotland, Virgin Money, the Scotch Whisky Association and the Scottish Trades Union Congress will be among those taking part in the meeting on Thursday.

Committee members travelled to Brussels on a fact-finding trip earlier in July. Convener Joan McAlpine said the formal evidence session on Thursday would seek to establish �what leaving the EU means to people in Scotland�.

She said: �We know already from speaking to the British Chamber of Commerce in Brussels that access to the single market is of paramount importance to most companies.�We experienced a lot of goodwill and understanding of Scotland�s situation when we visited Brussels. No country has left the EU before and the process for leaving is far from straightforward, so it�s important that our committee provides a forum for people in Scotland to get involved in this difficult process.�

Other witnesses include Edinburgh Airport, Scottish Enterprise, the Federation of Small Businesses and representatives from the National Farmers Union and the Scottish Fishermen�s Federation.

Big Cats!

quote:

A WOODLAND that straddles the Scottish Borders has emerged as the preferred site to trial the reintroduction to the UK of the Eurasian lynx. After months of consultations, the Lynx UK Trust chose Kielder Forest from a shortlist of five areas, clearing the way for local consultations.

Eurasian lynx are a rare modern wildlife success story, having dwindled to just 700 animals in Europe in the 1940s. But various conservation efforts, reintroductions and re-colonisations � where an expanding population reintroduced itself to several countries � have seen numbers climb to around 8,000, with no evidence of any attacks on humans and an extremely low predation rate on agricultural animals. The trust said several key factors saw Kielder emerge as the favourite: its size, its economic situation and its low human population.

Scottish Government to go ahead with collecting test data from new national standardised tests

Who knew setting Coal on fire under the sea would cause a lot of pollution except everyone who has common sense
An independent review for the Scottish Government has been sent for the news of the previous article

Tory MSP facing standards probe

I can't access the full article, sorry about that.

Refugees are stating the truth about old people and remote islands, this makes the right-wing press unhappy :qq:

In less politcal news

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zoqqCnEVLQ Guy who did the Nazi Pug joke and got arrested for it has an update for us all. He's going to loving court over this poo poo.

TAXI! GO AFTER THAT DRAGONITE!

# ? Jul 25, 2016 16:48

GEORGE W BUSHI: Jul 1, 2012

Owen Smith being opposed to the Barnett Formula is hardly surprising considering he's Welsh and we get hosed by it. Though considering how little Welsh politicians ever seem to speak up for Welsh interests and how little Welsh people are interested in politics to realise how much they're getting hosed and actively chose to gently caress themselves even harder in the EU referendum, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a different motivation to his opposition to it.

# ? Jul 25, 2016 17:21

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

Extreme0 posted:

STV may be a thing? I mean if the SNP aren't loving about like they usually do.

I'm broadly in favour of STV, but without any details - especially about constituency size and whether they'll be multi member - it's impossible to say anything about the proposal. I've a sneaking suspicion someone has crunched the numbers and figures this will screw labour without changing the SNP's share of MSPs too much, but that's based solely on cynicism. It'll be interesting to see what the electoral reform society say about it.

List of Demands from the Scottish Government over Brexit and a Second Indyref
SNP call to Protect students from EU states in the exchange program

Brexit has to be the SNP PR team's dream come true. That's not a slight; it's just made their job an awful lot easier, since they can basically just list good things we get from the EU and say independence is necessary to keep them.

Barnett? Never knew her

Barnett puts the SNP (and any Scottish MP) in a slightly awkward position. In terms of speaking for your constituents it makes perfect sense to demand it stays, but it's basically impossible to justify except as FYGM.

# ? Jul 25, 2016 17:44

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Baron Corbyn posted:

Owen Smith being opposed to the Barnett Formula is hardly surprising considering he's Welsh and we get hosed by it. Though considering how little Welsh politicians ever seem to speak up for Welsh interests and how little Welsh people are interested in politics to realise how much they're getting hosed and actively chose to gently caress themselves even harder in the EU referendum, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a different motivation to his opposition to it.

He probably opposes it because he's centrist/red tory shite.

# ? Jul 25, 2016 18:22

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

BBC news for Glasgow and the west of Scotland is a bit, I don't know, morbid today. Aside from the obvious sadness, it does seem a bit weird that the three top stories for a region of 1.5ish million people are just variants on "man dies." Is it really that newsworthy?

Man found dead at industrial estate

Man dies and boys injured in crash

Scot dies in fall from flats in Ibiza

EDIT: so here's something else instead:

New Report: Scottish Currency Options post-Brexit

quote:

New Common Weal report argues that an independent currency pegged to Sterling likely to be most advantageous initially for the purposes of confidence and stability, but over long-term flexibility needed

THE first major analysis to be published of an independent Scotland’s currency options post-Brexit has found that a range of options are viable, but only with an independent currency would a Scottish Government’s monetary policy have the capability of adapting flexibly to global economic circumstances as they change.

The report, ‘Scottish Currency Options Post-Brexit’, is published by Common Weal and authored by researcher Dr Craig Dalzell, and can be accessed in full here.

The report looks at:

The strengths and weaknesses of all currency options for an independent Scotland after the UK’s exit from the EU: currency union, “Sterlingisation”, £Scot pegged to Sterling, £Scot pegged to Euro, £Scot with a ‘basket’ peg, £Scot freely floating, The Euro, an Oil Standard and cryptocurrencies. The infrastructure that would be required for establishing a Scottish Central Bank, including a Scottish foreign reserve fund.The design and distribution process of creating a new Scottish currency.Analysis of other countries that have become independent or left a currency union and set up their own currency, including New Zealand, Norway and Slovakia.

currency.png

Currency Union likely to be “impossible”

Dalzell argues that currency union, the position of the Scottish Government in the 2014 independence referendum campaign, is now likely to be “impossible” practically, politically and legally in the context of the UK out of the EU and a prospective independent Scotland in the EU.

Scottish currency initially pegged to Sterling but long-term flexibility

The report makes the case for an independent Scotland starting with an independent currency pegged to Sterling “from the point of view of confidence and stability,” but adds that “economics is a dynamic event and no single currency option is likely to remain the optimal choice for an independent Scotland for all time”.

“When selecting a currency option Scotland should therefore consider, as a first principle, the options which allow the Scottish Government to capture and retain monetary and political sovereignty over the decision. This will grant Scotland the ability and power to change its mind and adjust monetary policy, up to and including currency arrangements, if required or if it is advantageous to do so,” the report concludes.

SNP politicians need to balance the ‘Impossible Trinity’

The Sunday Herald reported on 17 July that leading figures in the SNP were exploring a new currency position. Dalzell argues in the report that three preferential policy outcomes need to be balanced when informing such a decision: achieving macroeconomic sovereignty, achieving fixed or stable exchange rates and achieving effective and free capital flows.

“Fully subscribing to these three factors has, however, been deemed the ‘Impossible Trinity’, a macroeconomic trilemma,” Dalzell argues. Flexibility to adapt monetary policy over time is therefore deemed essential.

Participatory process in designing new currency

The report makes the case for a participatory process in Scotland to establish the design of an independent Scottish currency.

UK’s history of flexible currency approach

The report also highlights the fact that the UK has also changed its own currency arrangements in the past, proving that flexibility is part and parcel of any country’s currency approach.

The report states: “Prior to 1914 a strict gold standard was in use; through various international agreements such as Bretton Woods in the post-WWII period and through the Thatcher era of the 1980's the pound change the boundaries of its peg to the US dollar several times; it switched peg entirely to the West German Mark; then eventually it entered, then left, the first European exchange rate mechanism.

“Simply put, it is difficult to find an example of a monetary policy, except perhaps membership as junior partner of a full currency union, which an independent Scotland could reasonably embark upon and which the UK has not already done so (for better or for worse).”

Comments on the report

Mike Danson, professor of Enterprise Policy at Heriot-Watt University, reviewed the report, and commented that it is “well researched and based on best practise around the world of economics.”

He added: “Dr Craig Dalzell has done an excellent job in establishing the different options for an independent Scotland and proposed a form of currency that offers flexibility but also stability, credibility and room for innovation.

“Historically, Scottish banks were conservative, inventive and world leading; traditional sound banking practices would be nurtured again with a £Scots with quality, sustainable and ethical jobs and investment consistent with this currency model.”

Commenting on the report, Ben Wray, head of policy & research at Common Weal, said: “It is widely accepted among supporters of independence that the currency question was a source of weakness in the 2014 referendum. Brexit effectively kills off the case for a currency union, and therefore has provided the perfect opportunity to revamp the currency argument.

“This report looks at the whole range of issues that the Scottish Government should be exploring when deciding on a new currency policy, from minting Scottish coins to setting up a National Bank of Scotland.

“It argues that a modern approach to monetary policy requires the ability to adapt over time to changing circumstances. Only Scottish monetary sovereignty through an independent currency would fully allow that to happen.

“On the first day of an independent Scotland, it’s likely that an independent currency pegged to Sterling is likely to provide the most confidence and stability for transitionary purposes. However, over time, especially if the paths of the Scottish and rest of UK economy diverge, this could easily change and we should therefore follow countries like New Zealand which have also adopted a highly flexible currency strategy, pegging their currency at different times to the Australian dollar, US dollar and the British Pound.”

Dr Craig Dalzell said of the report: “In this report I have taken the opportunity to examine the factors involved in determining the currency choice of a country, from the founding of a Central Bank to the importance of exchange rate and balance of trade, and how the UK itself has changed its own currency arrangements multiple times within living memory.

“I also discuss the comparative advantages and disadvantages of each of the reasonable currency options that an independent Scotland could face and have concluded that whilst all options are, in strict economic terms, viable, the second independence campaign should be approached on the basis of an independent Scottish currency initially pegged to Sterling.

“This option would strike a balance of initial confidence and stability whilst granting Scotland the maximum degree of sovereignty to change our monetary affairs if and when circumstances dictate they should. This is particularly important in light of the Brexit vote which may result in Scotland's economy converging towards our favoured trading partners, such as the EU, whilst the remainder of the UK diverges away on their own desired path.”

Niric fucked around with this message at 08:27 on Jul 26, 2016

# ? Jul 26, 2016 08:21

Extreme0: Feb 28, 2013; I dance to the sweet tune of your failure so I'm never gonna stop fucking with you.

Continue to get confused and frustrated with me as I dance to your anger.

As I expect nothing more from ya you stupid runt!

http://stv.tv/news/politics/1361855-scottish-labour-rules-out-independence-from-post-brexit-plan/

hosed it.

# ? Jul 27, 2016 02:12

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Statistically she's right, as far as I know.

# ? Jul 27, 2016 02:15

Extreme0: Feb 28, 2013; I dance to the sweet tune of your failure so I'm never gonna stop fucking with you.

Continue to get confused and frustrated with me as I dance to your anger.

As I expect nothing more from ya you stupid runt!

OwlFancier posted:

Statistically she's right, as far as I know.

In terms of trading? Yes sort of...at the moment.

I no doubt they are including Scottish businesses that work with UK-wide businesses that also work with the EU into that figure too despite the obvious problem once Brexit happens. Plus while trading between ourselves is good, it makes little improvement in the long-run if we can't trade further with Europe easily as we would just be sharing resources and money between inside one soverign nation while the UK pays a lot more for imports from the rest of the world which puts businesses that rely on foreign goods while sharing across the UK in the shitter.

And some of our industries like manufacturing, food and drink and financial services also generate a fair amount of income on exporting towards the EU single market more so that will gently caress things up for a lot of people along with the incoming price increase of imports and gently caress it's not even going into places that rely on EU funding to begin with like Universities, research institues and Farmers. There are going to be job losses and cuts like we haven't seen before because bussiness won't have enough money to sustain themselves if a trading partner is gone.

This was the most loving stupidest time to state this when you have a few of your MSPs/MEP along with the Deputy of Scottish Labour sharing a vastly diffirent opinion on the matter, that their voters including EU nationals will be changing positions following Brexit and the issues from it and when things are still not clear enough to jump the gun as the Tory Government have still yet to clarify on things. But hey they have a plan! A 8 page plan! A 8 page plan with errors!

https://issuu.com/lol0471/docs/brexit_action_plan

Some of these proposals are still ambigious in that there's still uncertainty over the coming months so these proposals would just be tarnished if what they want is not going to happen and the 'Brexit Support Fund' just sounds like it's going to risk loaning money to businesses that they consider important but might not generate enough profit in the UK to matter much. There was a reason the EU single market was a thing because if the UK market wasn't enough to sustain them, they at least got a trading partner in the EU to export their stuff to bring back income so that they could get somewhere. And now that public money would be given to private bussinesses when we most likely be experincing tighter budgets, this dosen't sound that great for public services that Scottish Labour don't appear to have talked about much in their plan.

Extreme0 fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Jul 27, 2016

# ? Jul 27, 2016 03:42

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

Extreme0 posted:

This was the most loving stupidest time to state this.

This about sums it up really. Labour don't need to say anything about independence at this point since it's not even on the agenda yet and so much about both brexit and independence is hypothetical, so why back themselves into a corner?

I did think this was a good point though, and reflective not just of Scottish politics but also of things like the labour leadership debate:

quote:

"More than one million people voted leave [in Scotland], but the public debate we've been having since the UK voted to leave would make you think we voted unanimously for remain".

# ? Jul 27, 2016 07:57

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Extreme0 posted:

In terms of trading? Yes sort of...at the moment.

I mean in terms of remain/leave being a particularly strong issue for yes/no voters.

As far as I'm aware the EU is largely a non issue as far as yes/no goes, and does not enormously correlate with either position, thus the yes/no decision is still about as accurate as it was before; without anything approaching consensus.

# ? Jul 27, 2016 21:37

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

Supreme court rules against named person policy. The judgement itself is even handed, if a little ostentatiously grandiose at times (like the line about totalitarianism), essentially saying that the policy in its current form doesn't comply with existing laws about sharing information, and needs to be reworked. What's been disappointing is the reaction and how desperate and hyperbolic it's been; the SNP trying to spin this as a victory saying the court are endorsing the policy (they aren't: they simply rule on its legality) and screaming about BBC bias on explicitly factual headlines, while opponents are claiming the entire premise of the policy has been judged as unlawful (it hasn't, and it seems likely it'll pass after being reworked).

It's a poor reflection of the policy making process in Parliament (and the SNP in particular here), since they should've made drat sure any law was actually compliant with the rest of the law before trying to pass it, but it's a relatively minor issue - policy to be tweaked, not abandoned. It should just never have gotten to this point.

Having spoken to social workers I get the impression that professionals tend to thinks the policy is alright in principle, wouldn't actually change very much in terms of practice, and that anyone getting outraged over it doesn't really know what they're talking about (or is trying to score cheap and easy political points). I'm mostly just surprised the SNP let it go this far; they've tended to steer well clear of controversy, and this one in particular is quite a hard policy to defend and easy to attack in simple terms (government snooping on families!!!).

# ? Jul 28, 2016 11:20

baronvonsabre: Aug 1, 2013

quote:

Having spoken to social workers I get the impression that professionals tend to thinks the policy is alright in principle, wouldn't actually change very much in terms of practice, and that anyone getting outraged over it doesn't really know what they're talking about (or is trying to score cheap and easy political points)

That's exactly why they're doing it. Since the policy is pretty benign and has the support of charities and professionals working in the field, it makes those opposing it look completely irrational. As soon as you find out that people who understand the issue pretty much unanimously support it, the obvious conclusion is that anyone opposing it is either so blinded by their hatred of the SNP that they either can't assess a piece of legislation on its own merits, or, more interestingly, that they can but are lying about it in order to have a stick to beat the SNP with. Either way, it erodes trust in dissenting voices and means you're more likely to question them rather than the SNP.

# ? Jul 28, 2016 12:06

hookerbot 5000: Dec 21, 2009

Most of the parents I know who are aware of the legislation hate it. I don't think it's because they hate the SNP, they just don't like the idea of being watched and judged.

I'm not particularly bothered but then I'm really bad at caring about privacy laws anyway.

# ? Jul 28, 2016 12:13

keep punching joe: Jan 22, 2006; Die Satan!

hookerbot 5000 posted:

Most of the parents I know who are aware of the legislation hate it. I don't think it's because they hate the SNP, they just don't like the idea of being watched and judged.

I'm not particularly bothered but then I'm really bad at caring about privacy laws anyway.

They aren't being watched though, it simply means that if a kid goes to the hospital one week with a broken arm, goes to scouts with a black eye, and possibly mentions to a teacher that dad sometimes gets angry. The NP would receive this info to determine if there is anything to be concerned about, which they can then report to social services if required. It's completely benign and will hopefully save children from abusive situations that may not otherwise be noticed.

# ? Jul 28, 2016 12:42

hookerbot 5000: Dec 21, 2009

keep punching joe posted:

They aren't being watched though, it simply means that if a kid goes to the hospital one week with a broken arm, goes to scouts with a black eye, and possibly mentions to a teacher that dad sometimes gets angry. The NP would receive this info to determine if there is anything to be concerned about, which they can then report to social services if required. It's completely benign and will hopefully save children from abusive situations that may not otherwise be noticed.

I know, I think it's a good idea (if it actually works like that and kids don't just end up falling through the gaps like they do now). But for whatever reason a lot of parents feel like this amounts to people keeping tabs on them.

# ? Jul 28, 2016 12:49

keep punching joe: Jan 22, 2006; Die Satan!

hookerbot 5000 posted:

But for whatever reason a lot of parents feel like this amounts to people keeping tabs on them.

The reason is that they are a bunch of zoomers, or that the policy has been deliberately misrepresented by opposition parties.

# ? Jul 28, 2016 12:54

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

baronvonsabre posted:

That's exactly why they're doing it. Since the policy is pretty benign and has the support of charities and professionals working in the field, it makes those opposing it look completely irrational. As soon as you find out that people who understand the issue pretty much unanimously support it, the obvious conclusion is that anyone opposing it is either so blinded by their hatred of the SNP that they either can't assess a piece of legislation on its own merits, or, more interestingly, that they can but are lying about it in order to have a stick to beat the SNP with. Either way, it erodes trust in dissenting voices and means you're more to question them rather than the SNP.

I think "unanimously support" is a bit strong. FWIW I work for a children & families charity (albeit a very small one, so we're not all that focused on policy) and my partner is a social worker, and the general impression I get from colleagues and friends in the sector is less "support" in the active sense and more of a tolerance. Precisely because it doesn't change all that much in practice (and potentially means more work) few are claiming it to be a fantastic policy that needs to be rammed through - it isn't bad, but it also isn't exactly a marvellous piece of legislation that people are desperate to have enacted.

The opposition I've seen is also less anti-SNP (though obviously there's an element of that) and more a kind of emotive "stop the government meddling in the family!" It's somewhat irrational sure, but also entirely understandable (and predictable) and isn't going to be easily quelled by pointing to the nitty gritty of the legislation. The issue is that the policy (appears to) assert the authority of professionals over families in terms of child rearing, so saying professionals support it isn't a great argument that's likely to sway doubters.

Where the SNP definitely can be criticised is in pushing forward with poorly written legislation. Given how predictably controversial the issue is - and has been all the way through the drafting process - it's astonishing that they didn't pore over it to make sure it was airtight from a legal POV.

Again, I don't think it's a bad policy, but I'm surprised that such a politically touchy subject hasn't been treated with more care.

EDIT: it's also worth mentioning that the policy is arguably a reaction to the fairly constant "social services are failing our children!!!" articles in the Mail etc, designed to add in another layer of oversight as a safeguard.

Niric fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Jul 28, 2016

# ? Jul 28, 2016 12:59

baronvonsabre: Aug 1, 2013

All fair points, especially regarding the poor quality of the legislation. However:

Niric posted:

The opposition I've seen is also less anti-SNP (though obviously there's an element of that) and more a kind of emotive "stop the government meddling in the family!" It's somewhat irrational sure, but also entirely understandable (and predictable) and isn't going to be easily quelled by pointing to the nitty gritty of the legislation. The issue is that the policy (appears to) assert the authority of professionals over families in terms of child rearing, so saying professionals support it isn't a great argument that's likely to sway doubters

I disagree with this, at least to the point where it doesn't really matter whether it is about being anti-SNP or not, since it can so easily be interpreted as such. Not that the Scottish media are helping themselves when they're putting up garbage headlines like " Supreme Court blocks 'totalitarian' Named Person scheme in historic ruling", as the Press and Journal did.

# ? Jul 28, 2016 15:43

Leggsy: Apr 30, 2008; We'll take our chances...

It's interesting too because this result can also point to a wider problem with with the Scottish legal system. Given that NP passed the scrutiny of every Scottish court before finally being struck down by the UK Supreme Court. If so, it points to big flaws with legal advice within the Scottish Government, something that has to be examined and rectified, particularly if we vote for independence since I doubt the EU courts will be as forgiving on flawed legislation (See. Minimum Pricing).

# ? Jul 28, 2016 15:46

baronvonsabre: Aug 1, 2013

Minimum pricing is an interesting case though, since the issue was proving that it was more effective at achieving the goals set out for it than just changing taxation. Given that alcohol duty is reserved, it probably got as far as it did because other courts took that into account, while the ECJ didn't care.

# ? Jul 28, 2016 16:12

Leggsy: Apr 30, 2008; We'll take our chances...

Yeah, Minimum pricing probably wasn't the most comparable example, I just hated that ruling so drat much that it immediately sprung to mind :v:

# ? Jul 28, 2016 16:18

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

baronvonsabre posted:

I disagree with this, at least to the point where it doesn't really matter whether it is about being anti-SNP or not, since it can so easily be interpreted as such.

I don't disagree since there's plenty of political point scoring going on (interestingly, it seems to be largely from the Tories rather than labour, although that's just my immediate impression) to be sure, but it's worth noting that the action was brought by a group called The Christian Institute and that the groups supporting the No2NP campaign seem largely family/religion/anti-regulation oriented. It doesn't really seem to me to be driven by party politics specifically is my point; just a bad or misguided understanding of what named person actually means, and in some cases an aversion to social service intervention in family life in general.

quote:

Not that the Scottish media are helping themselves when they're putting up garbage headlines like " Supreme Court blocks 'totalitarian' Named Person scheme in historic ruling", as the Press and Journal did.

The BBC aside, you're right the coverage has been overwhelmingly crap and simplistic, and sometimes downright hysterical. I'd argue it's less anti-SNP and more a media love of claiming to be guardians of liberty (unless the magic "terrorism" word is used), but I realise that's highly debatable. It just annoyed me to see Nicola Sturgeon's spad leaping to criticise the BBC specifically when their coverage has been perfectly fine as far as I can tell.

Leggsy posted:

It's interesting too because this result can also point to a wider problem with with the Scottish legal system. Given that NP passed the scrutiny of every Scottish court before finally being struck down by the UK Supreme Court. If so, it points to big flaws with legal advice within the Scottish Government, something that has to be examined and rectified, particularly if we vote for independence since I doubt the EU courts will be as forgiving on flawed legislation (See. Minimum Pricing).

This is a really good point, and seems indicative of either a slapdash, arrogant, or overly parochial approach to the law. It seems like the blame should rest, at least in part, on the Scots legal profession as a whole, or at least the parts giving high level advice and judgements, rather than government, though you could make the argument they're responsible for not getting better advice It definitely wouldn't surprise me if Scots law is a particularly insular and self-regarding profession compared to elsewhere, but I really don't know enough about the contemporary legal scene - or how the law works in general - to have an informed opinion.

# ? Jul 28, 2016 16:57

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

Having just been rude about Scottish lawyers, it's only fair to point to this
very clear and clear-minded blog post on the ruling from, er, a Scots lawyer (also props to whoever suggested following @peatworrier).

# ? Jul 28, 2016 17:26

Niric: Jul 23, 2008

Just one last thing on Named Person, in case anyone isn't thoroughly bored of it yet. Here's an email I received this morning (technically it was sent yesterday, but it was after 5pm...) from Children in Scotland, the main umbrella organisation for the Children & Early Years sector, which might be of interest to anyone following the story. It essentially just summarises the judgement, but reading between the lines and the non-committal mandarin speak I think you get a feel for the general professional consensus; basically no real problem with Named Person policy and acceptance that it's going to go ahead. There's no element of "the Government needs to rethink...", it draws attention to how elements of the legislation are only incompatible with EU law "at present" (all emphasis is from the original), and doesn't challenge the assumption that the policy is going to get rolled out:

quote:

INFORMATION FOR CHILDREN IN SCOTLAND MEMBERS
Supreme Court decision on Named Person service
Dear members
This morning (28th July) the Supreme Court delivered its verdict on a case that challenged Part 4 of the Children and Young People (Scotland) Act 2014.
Part 4 relates to the provision a Named Person for every child in Scotland and the sharing of information about children, young people and families. This part of the Act was due to come into force and be rolled out across Scotland in August.
The judgment stated that the overall aim of the Act � to promote and safeguard the wellbeing of children and young people � is �unquestionably legitimate and benign�, and that Part 4 of the Act is �rationally connected to the legitimate aims pursued�.
The challenge, brought by the Christian Institute and three other registered charities, had three parts. The judgment on each of these parts is as follows:
1. The Supreme Court found that the provisions of the Children and Young People (Scotland) Act 2014 requiring the appointment of a named person to every child and young person in Scotland (other than those serving in the UK Armed Forces) are compatible with (a) fundamental common law rights; / (b) the ECHR.
2. The Supreme Court found that the provisions of the 2014 Act concerning information sharing and disclosure of information associated with the exercise of the named person functions are not, at present, compatible with EU Law. It found that the provisions relating to the sharing of information about children, young people and families without their consent was not compatible with Article 8 of the ECHR, which concerns a right to private and family life.
3. The Supreme Court found that the provisions of the 2014 Act concerning information sharing and disclosure of information associated with the exercise of the named person functions are not a reserved matter and therefore do not relate to matters reserved to the Westminster Parliament under the Scotland Act 1998.
The Scottish Government must now amend the information-sharing provisions in the Act to provide greater clarity about how Named Persons share information about children, young people and families with public bodies.
This needs to happen before Part 4 of the Act can be commenced. It has been given 42 days to set a timetable to rectify the legislation so that it is no longer in breach of the ECHR.
The Scottish Government has said it is assessing what this means for the timescale of implementation and, in the meantime, will continue to progress its preparations for implementation of the Named Person service and related provisions.
The judgment does not relate to current practice in relation to information sharing and public authorities have been asked to continue to share information appropriately and in accordance with the requirements of relevant legislation, such as the Data Protection Act and the Human Rights Act, when providing services to children and families.
We are pleased that the judgment has upheld the principles of Getting it Right for Every Child and that existing implementation by local authorities and public bodies of these principles can continue.
We have called on the Scottish Government to move quickly to put an end to any uncertainty, and remain committed to working with our members to ensure that the Act can deliver better outcomes for children, young people and families.

# ? Jul 29, 2016 10:50

Extreme0: Feb 28, 2013; I dance to the sweet tune of your failure so I'm never gonna stop fucking with you.

Continue to get confused and frustrated with me as I dance to your anger.

As I expect nothing more from ya you stupid runt!

Right to Buy in Scotland Scrapped

The obvious rears it's head

Farmers wish they had planted a money tree

Bank Chief says Scotland makes a great place to save habour all that mone- I mean firms

A list of options relating to Indy from Open-democracy

Surprise! The right-wing press are in fact assholes and liers and the bear shits on the pope

Scottish Government welcomes the new stock exchange so that it can prepare food better

Shock! In response to North Sea job losses, Scottish Greens urge widespread renewable engineering!

Ministers seek views of public on how to make Scottish social security �fairer�

One in Three Scots are being smart

quote:

Almost a third of voters want to wait until the UK's deal with the European Union (EU) is clear before deciding whether to hold another independence referendum, according to a new poll.

The YouGov survey for the pro-union Scotland in Union campaign group found 32% of Scots think the country should wait for the Brexit deal before a repeat of the 2014 ballot while 25% do not want another vote on independence until at least 2030. A further 17% said Scotland should never have another referendum while 16% want a vote as soon as possible, 9% said they did not know and the remainder said they did not agree with any of those views.

The UK Government's plan for leaving Europe is not yet clear, although Brexit Secretary David Davis has suggested it could begin formal negotiations early next year. Ms Sturgeon has said she would consider calling a second referendum if the UK's position emerges as unacceptable to Scotland's interests.

Alastair Cameron, of Scotland in Union, said: "We know the EU referendum result has left many Scots disappointed and some people are calling for the debate on Scottish independence to be re-opened. "This poll shows that Scotland does not want to rush into another referendum and one in three Scots want to see what Brexit means before deciding on our future. "We believe people deserve to know what this new landscape will mean for trade, for currency and for our borders. "Importantly, before dragging Scotland into another referendum, we need to hear from those proposing Scottish independence how we would deal with Scotland's �15 billion deficit."

The poll of 1,006 people - carried out between July 20 and 25 - also found that 46% of people think another independence referendum would have a negative impact on the economy while only 22% think it would be positive. Asked to rank their top priorities for the Scottish Government, the NHS, the economy and working with the UK Government on an EU deal came top ahead of getting a separate EU deal for Scotland and holding another referendum on Scottish independence.

Mr Cameron added: "These new figures show that the people of Scotland believe premature talk of a second referendum is bad for business and they want politicians in Holyrood to be focusing on the NHS and the economy." Scottish Conservative constitution spokesman Adam Tomkins said: "This is more evidence that the SNP's headfirst lunge towards a second referendum following Brexit is not what the people want. "Nicola Sturgeon should be working with the rest of the UK to get the best deal for Scotland."

Labour MSP James Kelly said: "Scottish Labour stands with the majority of Scots who want to see Scotland part of the EU and the UK and continue to explore all options. "However, it is clear that the NHS and the economy are the top concerns for the Scottish people. The SNP should bring forward infrastructure investment and use the powers of the Scottish Parliament to stop the cuts to local services."

SNP MSP James Dornan said: "This poll shows that, among those who expressed a view, a majority of people are open to the possibility of another referendum in the context of the Brexit decision. "In light of the overwhelming Remain vote in Scotland, it is absolutely right that we explore all options to protect Scotland's place in and relationship with the EU - and avoid the damaging economic consequences that are already becoming evident since June 23."

Scottish Councils failing to implement surveillance laws

quote:

The Office of the Surveillance Commissioner (OSC) inspects Scottish councils to check whether council officials are acting within the law when they conduct surveillance activities. The inspection reports are not routinely made public, but The Ferret used Freedom of Information laws to obtain more than 180 pages of recent reports and correspondence that councils have had with the Office of the Surveillance Commissioner. These source materials are published in a fully searchable database today on our website.

The failings revealed by the documents have left civil liberties campaigners �astonished,� that council officials apparently �still don�t get the basics.� Meanwhile politicians have expressed fears that a �dangerously lax attitude� may be developing in some councils where staff can use social networks to gather information about local residents.

In Argyl and Bute, the OSC inspection report for the council, described as �troublesome reading� by the Chief Inspector, shows that the council failed to address a number of �imperative� recommendations made three years earlier in 2012. It found council officers were using �blanket authorisations� and stock phrases in directed surveillance paperwork linked to council attempts to tackle illegal alcohol sales. The problematic authorisations covered �multiple premises without a clear supporting intelligence case to evidence necessity.�

Inspectors also found that the council had no policy guidance on how officers could use social networking sites to catch law breakers, and that officers were using out of date documentation. At time of publication the council had not responded to requests for comment.

In Moray, another inspection report said there were �a number of outstanding issues that required attention.� Inspectors found that council managers responsible for authorising surveillance activities were not �sufficiently detached� from the Trading Standards officers involved in carrying out investigations, and that some �urgent� surveillance activities undertaken by the council were not documented properly. Concerns were also expressed over the safety of Moray council officers going undercover to gather evidence of illegal tobacco sales. They found that important records, such as risk assessments were incomplete, and that some surveillance records did not show which senior officer held overall responsibility � both are legal requirements.

In a short email response to this story, a Moray council spokesperson said a report on its surveillance activities had recently been considered by councillors. In the report officials say OSC recommendations were �being implemented.�

In Scotland�s smallest local authority, Clackmannanshire, inspectors found that the council was unclear which public body had responsibility for surveillance activities carried out using CCTV cameras in Alloa town centre.

Although the number of times the council used official surveillance powers was small, inspectors noted again that workers had not been provided with a policy on the use of social networking sites, and that �even open source material if accessed repeatedly in order to build up a profile, or lifestyle, of a subject might benefit from an authorisation for directed surveillance.� Also like Argyll and Bute Council the OSC inspector noted that two out of five recommendations from the previous inspection undertaken three years before needed to be �repeated and amplified,� as they had not been properly addressed.

In response to the criticisms in the OSC report a spokesperson for Clackmannanshire Council said it was now reviewing its policies. They said:

�Clackmannanshire Council is the data owner for CCTV images and has guidance in place on the procedures to be followed where an operation includes CCTV surveillance. This guidance is in the process of being reviewed to determine whether it is adequate and to reinforce it if necessary in light of advice received from the OSC. �Clackmannanshire Council has a Social Networking Policy in place which gives guidance to staff on the use of social networking sites. �Following the OSC inspection and advice an updated draft of the Council RIP(S)A Policy for Authorising Covert Surveillance Operations has been prepared which includes specific guidance about the use of social networking sites in relation to RIP(S)A. This will be rolled out to all staff once finalised.�

Surveillance from behind a desk

There is some evidence that local authorities are increasingly turning to the internet in order to catch criminals. This is, according to the OSC, mainly because criminals are themselves moving online. For example, records obtained by The Ferret show that every surveillance authorisation at East Renfrewshire council since 2015 has been for �monitoring� Facebook profiles or pages.

But even where Scottish local authorities have adopted formal policies on surveillance activities using social networking sites, they haven�t always got it right. Emails obtained by The Ferret show that East Lothian officials contacted the OSC Inspectors for guidance after the council found itself at the centre of a media storm linked to a new policy governing how its officers should use social networking sites.

The OSC response described a media statement put out by East Lothian officers to explain the new policy as �erroneous� and went on to request, in an email it describes as �not for direct release to the media�, that it is consulted before the authority publishes any further press statements on the issue. Media Manager at East Lothian Council, Jill Mackay, said that the �erroneous� statement previously put out by the council was meant to re-assure the public about how the council would use powers that allow officers to set-up fake social media profiles and monitor online activity. She added: �East Lothian Council take their responsibilities seriously and has sought to both provide appropriate training and guidance to staff and also to ensure a high level of transparency by making the public are aware of how we undertake this type of activity.� Despite the failings identified by inspectors, our research also confirmed that no Scottish council staff involved in surveillance work have been disciplined in the last three years.

Daniel Nesbitt, research director of civil liberties campaign group Big Brother Watch said: �It�s astonishing that after all this time councils are still misusing their surveillance powers.� �How councils still don�t get the basics, like knowing who is in charge of their CCTV or that staff should be properly trained before using surveillance powers is frankly baffling. He added: �Far from learning their lessons many councils now seem intent on extending their reach into social media. �Just because technology means councils can do something it doesn�t mean they should. If officials want to conduct surveillance using social media they have to prove why it is necessary and how it can be done without harming privacy. If they can�t they shouldn�t be doing it. Keeping us safe should not mean snooping on us.�

Counterfeit goods, noisy neighbours and dog poo probes

Whilst more councils may be undertaking online surveillance, research by The Ferret shows that the overall number of formal surveillance authorisations has decreased significantly across Scotland over the last three years. In 2013/14 Scottish councils undertook 152 investigations that required a Directed Surveillance Authority. By 2015/16, this had fallen by more than a third to just 98.

Surveillance authorisations were commonly used by councils to investigate claims of anti-social behaviour, like noisy neighbours, and the sale of illegal tobacco, alcohol or counterfeit goods. Both Midlothian and South Ayrshire council admitted to using their snooping powers to catch dog owners who don�t clear up after their pets. The research also shows that a small number of councils, such as Dundee, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Midlothian are responsible for a significant proportion of the investigations undertaken. Five local authorities have not used their powers at all in the last three years.

Commenting on the OSC inspector findings, Green MSP John Finnie, said: �When addressing surveillance and privacy, there is an understandable tendency to focus on the police and the intelligence services. However, local authorities also carry out investigations into individuals as part of their responsibility for services like Trading Standards, licensing, benefit payments and child protection.� �These can represent just as serious a threat to privacy as a police investigation, and demand that the rules put in place to protect our human rights are taken just as seriously. It is deeply worrying that in several local authorities, this does not appear to be the case. �The litany of absent or out-of-date policies, bypassing of procedure, lack of training and failure to act on the Surveillance Commissioners� orders to improve uncovered by The Ferret suggests some local authorities have a dangerously lax attitude to their responsibility to protect human rights. �

The growth of social media as a route for surveillance and investigation exacerbates this problem. �Social media surveillance can be conducted so easily by any council employee from behind their desk. Without a robust culture of respect for rights and regulations, and the provision of appropriate training, the risk of council employees breaching citizens� privacy without even realising the seriousness of what they are doing is significant. �I will be watching councils� reaction to these revelations with interest. All local authorities must show us that their investigation policies robustly defend human rights and are transparent, up to date, properly implemented, and fully supported with adequate training.�

A lot of obvious news as of today

quote:

INDEPENDENCE will be back at the heart of this autumn�s SNP conference after it was controversially absent from the party�s main conference last year.

A resolution published in the draft agenda for the three-day event calls for the country to prepare for a second independence referendum if Scotland�s EU membership is not safeguarded in the UK�s Brexit negotiations. It says: �Conference believes that every avenue must be explored to keep Scotland in the EU. If no viable solution to safeguard our membership as part of the UK exists, Scotland should prepare for a second independence referendum and seek to remain in Europe as an independent country.�

The resolution was put down by Toni Giugliano, of the party�s Edinburgh Western branch. It also welcomes the result that 62 per cent of voters in Scotland backed the remain case and expresses disappointment that the UK voted as a whole to leave. It adds: �Conference believes that it would be democratically unacceptable if Scotland were to be dragged out of Europe against its will. �Conference expresses its disappointment that the UK as a whole voted to leave the EU but reaffirms that the democratic will of the people of Scotland must be respected.�

In October last year, for the first time in the party�s history, the question of independence did not appear on the SNP�s conference agenda and many senior figures and activists expressed criticism of the decision following the election of 56 MPs in the General Election just months earlier. This year�s decision by the party�s standing orders and agenda committee to include the resolution in the draft conference agenda, making it certain to be debated at the conference, was backed by candidates for SNP depute leadership.

Tommy Sheppard, the MP for Edinburgh East, said: �I think it�s very important that we debate the prospect of a second independence referendum and by October we may have a better picture of what options are available to keeping Scotland in Europe and whether the British government is prepared to consider them.�

MEP Alyn Smith said: �I welcome any opportunity to discuss independence. The SNP is absolutely all about independence and I look forward to the debate to see where the discussion takes us.�

Angus Robertson, the SNP Westminster leader, said: �It is only right that our democratic conference discusses building a new prospectus for independence, a vision for Scotland that would deliver our shared values to continue to build a better Scotland. �Last week I said Scotland was on the brink of independence, and I truly believe that. There can be no doubt that Theresa May is the most right wing Prime Minister since Margaret Thatcher and the future looks bleak. With independence we can take that future into our own hands, and I look forward to reinvigorating that discussion at our conference.�

Following the referendum on June 23, the First Minister set up an advisory group on Scotland�s relationship with the EU, led by Professor Anton Muscatelli of Glasgow University. She has stressed a second independence referendum is �most likely� following the EU result which showed significant support among Scots for remaining. Earlier this week she said independence could offer Scotland the greatest economic stability as she set out five key demands which had to be safeguarded under Brexit negotiations. She named these as Scotland�s democratic, economic and social protection interests as well as ensuring the country had political influence and that a sense of collective solidarity with other nations was safeguarded.

Giugliano told The National he hoped the resolution would get considerable support from delegates. �What the First Minister is doing is absolutely crucial. She has to look at all possible ways of keeping Scotland in the EU, but my view is � if you look at the First Minister�s key asks in these negotiations, I don�t think the UK Government will be able to deliver on any of them.� Amendments may be submitted to the resolution � possibly from the party�s Eurosceptics wing � which would be debated at the conference taking place in Glasgow from October 13 to 15.

George Kerevan, the SNP MP for East Lothian, last year called on party leaders to clarify the issue at the conference after the issue was not on the agenda, while Martyn Day, the SNP MP for Linlithgow and East Falkirk, said he wanted the party to be able to call a �snap referendum� in the next parliament if it needed to do so.

Henry Mcleish suggests an Independent Labour Party in Scotland...again

quote:

HENRY McLeish has called on Scottish Labour to cut its ties with London, arguing that an independent party north of the Border is now �essential�.

The former Labour First Minister said UK Labour is facing �a summer of discontent and bitter infighting� with the leadership contest between Jeremy Corbyn and Owen Smith. He argued the growing divisions within the party have left it �nowhere� in the debate over leaving the European Union (EU) and the consequences of this development on Scotland. Corbyn � who is the odds-on favourite to win the leadership contest due to conclude in September � is �not the answer to Labour�s decline or long-term recovery�, McLeish insisted.

With Scotland facing the prospect of a second independence referendum as a result of the majority of Scots voting to remain in the EU, the former Labour First Minister said the Scottish party must think beyond the leadership battle. �In the short-term we will be wrapped up in the leadership campaign,� he said. �We need now to think beyond the next two months and prepare for every eventuality in Scotland and Britain as the political fallout from June 23 continues and uncertainty deepens. Scotland could see Home Rule, a form of federalism, independence or some other, as yet unknown, four-nation constitutional solution. Regardless of the outcome, an Independent Labour Party (ILP) in Scotland is essential. �The ILP imprint would send a powerful message of Scottish identity and politically-distinctive policies. This is the time for the Scottish party to act.�

Leader Kezia Dugdale sought greater autonomy for the Scottish party last year while her deputy Alex Rowley advocated a more independent federal party. Meanwhile, one of Corbyn�s allies has suggested that Labour should explore the possibility of electoral pacts with the Greens, SNP and Liberal Democrats in order to defeat the Tories.

Clive Lewis, a shadow cabinet minister, has said that the only way to get Theresa May out of office is to bring all anti-Tory votes together in a �progressive alliance�. In comments that have divided Labour opinion, Lewis said in The Guardian that working with other parties is �essential� for beating the Conservatives � and for being a better government. The shadow Defence Secretary said that �there is a common set of themes and values and principles� across Labour, the Green Party, LibDems and the Scottish Nationalists, and suggested an electoral pact would be needed because of the First Past The Post System for Westminster elections.

An ICM poll raised the prospect of the Conservatives holding power at Westminster for years after it found that all Labour, Lib Dem, SNP and Green support added together would only be enough to draw level with the Conservatives in the popular vote.

Expanding on his ideas for an electoral pact, Lewis said he regularly agreed with the Green MP Caroline Lucas, as well as SNP and LibDem MPs. �I sit and listen to Caroline Lucas and seven or eight times out of 10, I listen and think: not sure about that bit but most of it I agree with. When the Tories jeer her, I want to stand up,� he said.

�Half the time when the SNP are speaking, I listen to what Mhairi Black or others are saying and think I agree with that. I listen to[Lib Dem MP] Tom Brake and think I agree with what he says on that issue. �There is a common set of themes and values and principles that we need to identify as progressives and then start to work out how we can work together not just to stop the Tories but to have better politics.� However, his ideas were met with anger by Scottish Labour figures.

Cat Headley, a Labour candidate at May�s Holyrood elections tweeted: �Anyone in Labour Party advocating a political and parliamentary alliance with SNP not only betrays our values but every member in Scotland � and every Labour voter.�

Cat Headley is a loving moron, it's not the scottish parliament you fuckless titwit.

Top Labour Economic adviser backed the Yes Campaign

quote:

A TOP economic adviser to Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell has been revealed as a campaigner for Scottish independence before the 2014 referendum.

According to the Politics Home website, Dr James Meadway, an opponent of austerity appointed to McDonnell�s team last year, was one of a number of English contributors to the �Scottish Independence: Support from London� film that was posted on YouTube. In the video, he clearly says: �I support Scottish independence because I think this is about democracy. �It�s a chance not just for Scotland, but for the whole country to break the stranglehold of Westminster and the City of London politics on the economy and think about how we can run a different, better kind of country.�

The Scottish Conservative chief whip John Lamont said last night: �This is yet another humiliating revelation about Labour�s weakness on keeping Scotland in the UK. Voters will be looking to Kezia Dugdale to distance herself from these remarks.� Meadway could not be contacted last night. A spokesman for McDonnell said: �This was an historic personal opinion held by Dr Meadway, and does not reflect the views of the Labour party.�

The Common Weal has a list of potential currency options

quote:

AN independent Scotland should create its own currency pegged against Sterling to retain political and monetary sovereignty, a new paper claims.

A discussion paper prepared for the Common Weal think tank puts forward nine options for an independent Scotland post-Brexit. The report, shown exclusively to The National, states that the currency debate was �one of the weaker aspects� of the Yes campaign prior to the 2014 ballot and, with the prospect of a second referendum on the table following the Brexit vote, stresses that better answers must be found this time around. Yesterday First Minister Nicola Sturgeon insisted independence could now offer Scots �stability and certainty� as Prime Minister Theresa May prepares to invoke Article 50, triggering a complicated two-year process to remove the UK from the European Union.

In 2014, the SNP said a formal currency union with the rest of the UK was the best way forward, with then First Minister Alex Salmond stating: �It�s Scotland�s pound and we are keeping it.�However, this was ruled out by senior UK Government figures including then Chancellor George Osborne. The paper, written by activist and researcher Dr Craig Dalzell, states: �The strategy of adopting a Sterling union with the rest of the UK, even after such a union had been publicly dismissed by the pro-Union advocates, was deeply damaging in terms of both confidence in the pro-independence campaign itself and in uncertainty about the future of an independent Scotland. �It is vital then that the questions which the 2014 campaign could not answer are answered now, before the second campaign is launched.�

The first major analysis of an independent Scotland�s currency options post-Brexit, the report covers the strengths and weaknesses of nine possible strategies, including currency union with the rest of the UK, �Sterlingisation� and using the Euro. It also includes creating a ��Scot� pegged to either Sterling, the Euro, a �basket� peg or left freely floating, with the use of cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin or an Oil Standard amongst the other suggestions.

The paper also examines the infrastructure required for establishing a Scottish Central Bank, including a Scottish foreign reserve fund, and includes analysis of other countries that have become independent or left a currency union and set up their own currency, including New Zealand, Norway and Slovakia. It concludes that an Oil Standard would put other parts of the economy at risk, a formal currency union with the rest of the UK would be �impossible� practically, politically and legally and that joining the Euro could be beneficial but would take time and could mean forfeiting a measure of autonomy.

Advocating the creation of a �Scot pegged against Sterling at a 1:1 rate, the paper states that �no single option is ... riskier or less viable than any other�, adding �it is simply that the risks are different and should be managed accordingly�. It goes on: �No single currency option is likely to remain the optimal choice for an independent Scotland for all time.

�When selecting a currency option Scotland should therefore consider, as a first principle, the options which allow the Scottish Government to capture and retain monetary and political sovereignty over the decision. �This will grant Scotland the ability and power to change its mind and adjust monetary policy, up to and including currency arrangements, if required or advantageous to do so. �In this sense it is clear that if and when Scotland enters another formal independence campaign, the advocates of independence should begin from the standpoint of using independence to launch a new, independent Scottish currency.�

It suggests the peg should remain in place for a period of years to allow markets to settle and prevent a run of money from the country, adding: �The political and social advantages of allowing the people of Scotland to aid in the design of the new Scottish currency should be embraced. �Having made the choice to create one, the public should be able to invest some kind of ownership or belonging in it by allowing the expression of newly independent identity through it. �This would greatly aid in the adoption and confidence of the new currency as well as go some way towards assisting the citizens of Scotland in settling into their new found place in the world.�

Economists caution against moving too quickly without due thought

Last night economists agreed with some of the findings but cautioned against adopting a firm position before Brexit negotiations have begun. Dr Jim Walker, founder and chief economist of Asianomics Group, which services the fund management industry, told The National: �I agree entirely with the view that a new currency would indeed be the best option for an independent Scotland but I think that the case for it being pegged 1:1 against Sterling for a protracted period is now very much more questionable.

�With Brexit, the Pound Sterling is likely to become one of the world�s weaker currencies. The Scottish Government should be exploring all the possibilities presented by the experience of small nations around the world.� Citing the example of Singapore, which has managed its exchange rate against a basket of currencies for three decades, he went on: �It might be very foolish indeed for a Scottish Government advocating independence to tie the fate of our own currency to a sinking British Pound. It would be much more sensible to adopt a Singapore-style system where an independent monetary authority, not a central bank, would adopt a multi-currency basket against which to manage the Scots Pound. In that way the Scots Pound would reflect the movements in the currencies of its biggest trading partners.�

Walker said such an �opaque� system would reassure markets and prevent the creation of an inherently weak currency, adding: �As for sudden capital flight, I can only think that that would happen if Scotland�s economy were being horrendously mismanaged. So far, the experience of the Scottish Government is quite the reverse: cautious and prudent. International markets are very good at spotting mismanagement and sound management. I suspect Scotland�s biggest task would be to manage capital inflow rather than the reverse.�

Graeme Blackett, founder of Biggar Economics, called the suggested system �very workable�, but said it is �too early to know� the best option. He said: �It depends on how the next couple of years work out and what the rest of the UK�s relationship with the EU and Scotland�s relationship with the rest of the UK is like. �We are talking about very challenging times. There are two years areas of concern � one is the political uncertainty and, from a business perspective, companies need to know if they are going to have access to markets, globally and within the EU. �Longer term, if the UK has no solution to important things like the UK position on science and investment. If we don�t have some way of working that out, that is a worry for the economy. �Some of the fundamental things that we have relied on in the economy such as the drivers of growth coming from universities and innovation, we don�t know how that is going to be structured in future.�

Michael Fry, founder of the Wealthy Nation Institute, also urged against premature decisions, adding that continued use of Sterling for a transition period would allow the creation of a considered long-term strategy. �The biggest danger is not in one scheme or another, it is in pushing forward too fast,� he said. Commenting on the report, Mike Danson, professor of enterprise policy at Heriot-Watt University, said the proposed model offers flexibility, stability, credibility and �room for innovation�.

He added: �Historically, Scottish banks were conservative, inventive and world leading; traditional sound banking practices would be nurtured again with a �Scots with quality, sustainable and ethical jobs and investment consistent with this currency model.�Currency union: Such an arrangement would see Scotland negotiate a formal currency-sharing deal with the rest of the UK, but it may be �practically, politically or legally impossible�. If achieved, Scotland would gain representation on the Bank of England Monetary Policy Committee and currency-based trade barriers with the rest of the UK would remain as they are, with no internal exchange rate issues.

However, money may flow to one geographical area of the union over others and the arrangement could �run contrary to the goals and aspirations of those who seek independence for economic reasons� by preventing economic divergence. Failure to underpin Scotland�s political sovereignty in the framework of such a deal could also prevent the right to withdraw, leaving the nation �trapped� within another union.

What are our options ... and are they any good?

Currency union: Such an arrangement would see Scotland negotiate a formal currency-sharing deal with the rest of the UK, but it may be �practically, politically or legally impossible�. If achieved, Scotland would gain representation on the Bank of England Monetary Policy Committee and currency-based trade barriers with the rest of the UK would remain as they are, with no internal exchange rate issues. However, money may flow to one geographical area of the union over others and the arrangement could �run contrary to the goals and aspirations of those who seek independence for economic reasons� by preventing economic divergence. Failure to underpin Scotland�s political sovereignty in the framework of such a deal could also prevent the right to withdraw, leaving the nation �trapped� within another union.
Sterlingisation: Scotland would import and use Sterling with or without authorisation, losing direct control over interest rates and external exchange rates as with a currency union, but without the same representation on the Monetary Policy Committee. Some form of monetary board would be required to monitor money supply within the domestic market because interventions in the form of capital controls or currency injections may be required if interest rates and exchange rates lead to the risk of capital flight from the country. However, any price paid for loss of control over currency may well be more than paid for in terms of stability with regard to primary trading partners and continuity of currency.

�Scot pegged to Sterling: Allowing Scotland to maintain relatively close ties with the neighbouring economy, this option assumes voters would �prefer some sense of continuity throughout the political upheaval of independence� and requires the establishment of a Scottish macroeconomic board to gain control over �10 billion foreign exchange reserves before the launch of the currency. The reserve would be claimed as part of Scotland�s share of UK assets or mortgaged against an equivalent value of UK debt, with the pegging making prices easily convertible and allowing the use of both currencies by retailers to enable cross-border trade, as in some European areas. The system, which uses a Scottish Central Bank, retains full monetary sovereignty and the ability to adjust interest rates and capital controls.

�Scot pegged to Euro: The peg signals intent to converge towards the European market but signalling this intent during a pre-referendum campaign could lead to a loss of confidence from voters and goodwill from the rest of the UK, jeopardising independence negotiations. However, the Euro is �substantially less volatile� than Sterling over shorter time scales and may be less prone to shocks, providing more overall stability.

�Scot with a basket peg: Allows the Scottish Government to adjust the peg in a fluid fashion as dictated by defined criteria. The new currency would be set to a group of existing monies rather than being dependent on any one, or could be weighted against the relative GDPs of Scotland�s trading partners � most likely Sterling and the Euro � to help ensure stability for business. However, this could ultimately cost too much in bank transaction fees.

�Scot freely floating: The market could set the price of the currency, but this may seriously affect the price in the early days of independence. However, this could be mitigated if an entire independence campaign was run on this basis, allowing the markets time to adjust. Scotland�s relatively small GDP size could lead to increased volatility in the exchange rate but also give Scotland access to other economic levers which compensate for the lack of exchange rate control, as with Iceland.

The Euro: Brexit means Scotland is unlikely to qualify to join immediately, meaning an interim position would have to be taken, such as pegging a �Scot to the Euro, or by simply adopting the Euro informally. This could benefit the economy but could also cost some political control, with no current withdrawal protocols in place, and Scotland would also be exposed to any �crisis� of the currency.

Oil standard: Such a commodity peg could lead to the growth of the oil economy at the expense of the rest of the economy, potentially causing �absolute harm�. Pegging to a finite commodity may also be imprudent and the political consequences of such a link may be unpopular, also opening the currency up to global shocks similar to that felt in Russia in 2014, with serious consequences.

Cryptocurrencies: The use of a decentralised fiat currency whose units are denoted by an identifying code may not be viable due to problems with widespread acceptance and problems in defining price. Reliance on an unknown verification system rather than a bank with a commercial reputation may also disincline people from making large purchases, undermining confidence and the value of the money. Other technical challenges may also arise, while many of the economic challenges would remain.

Angus Robertson says Get Angry please

quote:

SCOTS who supported staying in the Union in the independence referendum are right to feel �cheated and betrayed�, said Angus Robertson as he launched his bid to become depute SNP leader.

Addressing supporters in Edinburgh last night, Robertson insisted the argument for independence had been strengthened following the uncertainty caused by the Brexit vote and the overwhelming support in Scotland to remain in the European Union. However, he said over the coming months a positive message should be sent to those who previously voted No.

�Now our activists, our members � you � are more important than ever. Our next job is to communicate with the many people who believe their 2014 referendum vote was to stay in Europe by voting �no� to Scottish Independence. �They are right to feel cheated. They are right to feel betrayed,� he said. To loud applause he underlined that the corporate giant Diageo, opposed to Yes in 2014, were no longer so.

�Look at Diageo; a Scottish employer that previously urged their staff to vote to remain in the United Kingdom. With a positive vision for Scotland, they have now said that they won�t argue for Scotland to remain in the UK in the event of a second referendum,� he added. �We need to take a truly positive message to those who have previously not supported independence. We must go out and tell them that they are welcome in our movement. It is the only way that we will win independence. My message in the election campaign is that we need to be outward-facing, not just speaking to the 45 per cent but to the 100 per cent � to everyone in Scotland.�

Robertson, MP for Moray, is the SNP�s Westminster leader and was the first candidate to put himself forward for the contest, which follows Stewart Hosie�s decision to stand down from the position following reports about his personal life. Other contenders are Edinburgh East MP Tommy Sheppard, MEP Alyn Smith and Inverclyde councillor Christopher McEleny.

During his speech Robertson cited his substantial experience in the party including as campaign director for the 2007 and 2011 Holyrood elections which the SNP won, forming a minority and then a majority Government, and also as Westminster leader. He said his priorities, and the themes of his campaign, were leadership, grassroots and independence. Amid the shock over Brexit, he warned that Theresa May�s days �as Prime Minister of the whole United Kingdom will be numbered� if she fails to protect Scotland�s place in Europe. The Scottish Government is currently looking at options for protecting Scotland�s place in Europe, including a second independence referendum if it emerges as the best or only choice, First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has said.

She travelled to Brussels after the June 23 vote for Brexit to highlight Scotland�s majority vote for remain, meeting with several EU leaders and reporting a �sympathetic response�.

Developing his pitch for depute, Robertson positioned himself to the centre of the party, arguing for the need to support business as well as promote social justice, and outlined his bid to persuade sceptics to support independence in a likely future vote. �We need to speak to those many people who thought they were voting for certainty over risk. Since 2014 the UK has become the risky option, and since the Brexit vote this is about to get much worse. We need to take our new prospectus to the streets to make sure we can deliver the best for Scotland,� he said. �I believe that we all joined the party not to debate internal structures, but to look at what we could actually do to make all our lives better. People joined our party because they have a radical vision for Scotland where there is no contradiction between the priorities of economic prosperity, successful business and our vision for social justice. You will no doubt have your own radical ideas to make Scotland better, I have some of my own too.�

Nominations for the SNP depute leader post close on 5 August with the winner announced at the SNP�s autumn conference.

Another Indy March In Glasgow, Gawd these bigots never let up. They should follow a good example of a march done right

quote:

A WEEKEND March for Independence could be a landmark for the Yes movement, organisers claim.

Organisers All Under One Banner have arranged six public processions since 2014 to show continuing support for constitutional change. However, they say the result of the EU referendum has changed the tone of political discourse, making Saturday�s event different to any other.

Neil MacKay of All Under One Banner told The National the march, which will take place in Glasgow, is set to include a broader spectrum of the public than ever before. He said: �It hasn�t felt like this before. People are coming from all over Scotland. �Since the EU vote there has been a renewed desire for independence. We have always had a core of activists, getting at least 500 people each time. This time we�ll have at least 1,500, but it could go as high as 3,000. �We are seeing people commenting online, saying they voted No and now that has changed. It seems to be a wider selection of people, with a lot more of the Asian community and a lot of English people. �They want to be part of it and to do something physical to show their support. The debate on independence hasn�t stopped since 2013 but a lot more people now want to be seen to be supporting independence.�

The march will start from the Botanic Gardens in the West End of the city at 10am, setting off half an hour later and ending in George Square at noon. Those with mobility issues who are unable to complete the march are invited to meet participants at the central landmark, where a range of groups will be represented.

MacKay said the marches keep the Yes movement �in the hands of the people� and those taking part are encouraged to carry banners declaring their reasons for supporting independence. He said: �We don�t want independence for its own sake, we want it for the right reasons and we want people to show why they back independence, whether that be anti-fracking, anti-Trident, anti-austerity or anything else. �This is about bridging the gap between socialism and nationalism. It�s a good opportunity to wave your slogan and show your allegiance to independence.�

No

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/758701132382400513

# ? Jul 29, 2016 19:46

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Extreme0 posted:

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/758701132382400513

Who the gently caress is being polled there?

# ? Jul 29, 2016 23:51

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 10, 2024 17:51

Leggsy: Apr 30, 2008; We'll take our chances...

Looks like Indyref 2 is dead for the time being. Tomorrows Herald has YouGov showing No at 53% and Yes at 47%. Turns out the SNP's caution was justified.

Brexit here we come :smith:

EDIT: And for those who think that EU membership will affect anything. The poll also found that 55% of Scots would prefer to remain in the UK outside of the EU, as opposed to the other way round.

Leggsy fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Jul 30, 2016

# ? Jul 30, 2016 01:34

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Independence Day 2: Resturgeonce

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