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Yuns posted:I am a Renzo Gracie black belt and have trained under John for about 10 years so I am probably best equipped to answer your questions. John's not really withholding his system. John and his students teach the material in seminars and at the Academy and you can just watch the guys compete and see it. The controversy came about because someone made a video going over John's material after a seminar and posted it to youtube. Someone from our team asked that it be taken down. No one has any objections to the videos breaking down Garry and Eddie's games like those from BJJ Scout. It was a objection to just copying the seminor material and posting it online without permission for e-cred. The guys rely on teaching and seminar income and felt it was unfair to just post his seminar material without permission. Wow, thanks for the detailed breakdown Yuns. I have read most of this thread from the start on and off for 6 months and I remember you were a blackbelt / knowledgeable dude, did not know you (or anyone here) trained directly with John! Next you will be telling me about rolling with Anthony Bourdain.... So, what does a new bjj student need to know about leglocks? I have read quite a bit of "super dangers cheater moves" and "only blackbelts and up should even thing about it". It seem like this thinking is going out of style as clearly a leglock game is a big part of modern submission grappling. My instructor has showed us a few toe holds and ankle locks, the reasoning being that we should probably not do jiujitsu for a few years and not have a clue how to defend this type of attack. On the other hand there is so much to learn I get that these attacks can be saved as advanced techniques for much later in a bjj practitioners journey. Obviously "do what your academy tells you" is a good answer, I guess I just wanted to know what other folks think of leglocks in general, at any level (I'm in no hurry to have my knees destroyed, I old and frail).
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Jul 19, 2016 02:25
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Shamelessly taken from reddit: Eddie Cummings does not approve of children attempting heel hooks: 
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Jul 19, 2016 02:29
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spandexcajun posted:, I guess I just wanted to know what other folks think of leglocks in general, at any level (I'm in no hurry to have my knees destroyed, I old and frail). Leglocks are like any other moves. If you lock it in and your opponent moves the wrong way and you don't let go he gets hurt. Like wise if you get locked in a leg lock and screw up defending, you're gonna get hurt. If you screw up applying a leg lock, your opponent is gonna take advantage and at least end up top half guard if not completely past your guard, and at worst put you in a leg lock. If you apply a leg lock don't be a complete douche to your training partners and crank them to max.
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Jul 19, 2016 02:42
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Visited the Renzo academy in Ottawa twice this week and got some rolls in. I wasn't totally outclassed by the white belts and got a compliment from a blue belt. Tapped a bunch ofc. Will visit again next time I'm through. Visiting other schools is super duper fun.
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Jul 19, 2016 03:00
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You don't need to how much about leg locks yet as a new student. Just focus on what the instructor teaches you. That will typically be basic positions (guard, mount, side control, turtle), sweeps, passing, and basic subs and defenses. Yes, leg locks are critical to know and understand. The problem is that if you focus on them too early before you have a decent understanding of positions, passing and sweeps then there is a tendency to just fall back into a leg lock attempt rather than try to learn passing. That is horrible BJJ and will retard your learning. With sophisticated leg lockers, it might look like they are just falling back into leg locks but they are actually playing a very sophisticated position and control game that is leg focused. The leg entanglements are as much control and guard type positions as closed guard but just look different. There is a control and positional hierarchy in leg entanglements. This is not random opportunistic falling back into a leg lock. The critical part of the leg game is learning the positions, the entries, the control, escapes, transition and then subs. This is tough to learn if you don't have a good mastery of more conventional positions, sweep and passing first. It's fine to learn the ankle lock. If nothing else, it'll remind you not to leave a leg floating around lazily on someone's hip or under their armpit. But early on I wouldn't be worried about heel hooks. When you are more senior you have to know them well. If nothing else, so you can defend them. And the lower body is 2/5 of the potential attacks. Why would you limit yourself in submissions.
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Jul 19, 2016 03:19
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Thanks for writing that Yuns. You just described my problem as a retarded white belt who learned the x-guard -> ankle lock transition but now I've had a tendency to just hunt for that anytime I'm on my back instead of actually, you know, practicing fundamental jiu jitsu passes & positioning. I'm gonna work on that.
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Jul 19, 2016 03:47
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KildarX posted:Leglocks are like any other moves. If you lock it in and your opponent moves the wrong way and you don't let go he gets hurt. Like wise if you get locked in a leg lock and screw up defending, you're gonna get hurt. If you screw up applying a leg lock, your opponent is gonna take advantage and at least end up top half guard if not completely past your guard, and at worst put you in a leg lock. If you apply a leg lock don't be a complete douche to your training partners and crank them to max. Yeah but the problem is that there can be serious damage before pain.
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Jul 19, 2016 04:46
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JaySB posted:Yeah but the problem is that there can be serious damage before pain. ...which is why it's important to actually learn and practice leg locks, so you don't get hurt due to inexperience. Also that's really only true for heel hooks. I've never seen someone get hurt from a heel hook in training, but I have seen people hurt themselves because they were unfamiliar with leglock positions and tried to roll out of stuff the wrong way.
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Jul 19, 2016 05:38
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https://www.instagram.com/p/BIBKtcBgjfJ/Mike Davila posted:Thank you guys for coming out to Cali showing me love and for supporting and just being my boys. Apparently to some it's wrong to be seen with me these days. We are friends regardless where we are. I'm sorry this has caused you to be asked to leave as well but I'm happy that despite all that, you all have been there and helped me prep for this event. So blessed to have that type of support during such an important time. Thank you guys I love you for taking the time out and sharing this with me. lol this is getting better
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Jul 19, 2016 18:10
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Mechafunkzilla posted:...which is why it's important to actually learn and practice leg locks, so you don't get hurt due to inexperience. Also that's really only true for heel hooks. Wasn't advocating for not training leg locks.
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Jul 19, 2016 18:16
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JaySB posted:Yeah but the problem is that there can be serious damage before pain. It may not technically be pain but there's a very clear "my bone is twisting aaaaaaaa" sensation when someone starts to tighten a heel hook that is impossible to miss. Its a super-small rotation compared to other subs, so if guys are going Paul Harris during training that'd be an issue, but not one any decent gym should have.
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Jul 19, 2016 20:20
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Day two at the MMA gym. Today was submission wrestling and boxing. Got choked with various front chokes by a much much larger person while learning a little about how to do them myself. My little t-rex arms struggled to get them on right, but I got a couple. Then we did boxing. Learning quite a bit each time. I know I'm still new, but the gym has been really awesome so far. I've been able to sit back with instructors each time I've been in and they always seem willing to help since my old rear end knows nothing about fighting. So far good experiences all around except my cup is too small. Found that out the hard way. If any goons are on the fence about going and rolling with other sweaty fat people, you should do it. It is good.
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Jul 21, 2016 01:28
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I had three different people just stand up in my guard today, spread their base and lean forward. The one was making the mistake of keeping his hips super high so I just loaded him on my feet and spun and tossed him but the other two kept their hips low and kept driving forward. What do I do in this situation? They weren't exactly mounting an effective offense but at the same time it wasn't pleasant and it was frustrating as I was unable to mount any effective escape attempts or offensive attempts on my own.
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Jul 21, 2016 03:42
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WayneCampbell posted:I had three different people just stand up in my guard today, spread their base and lean forward. The one was making the mistake of keeping his hips super high so I just loaded him on my feet and spun and tossed him but the other two kept their hips low and kept driving forward. Grab ankles, drive knees into their chest, pull ankles push knees.
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Jul 21, 2016 04:35
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Also, depending on arm situation: Double overs - switch to butterfly guard, sweep to mount. Check out some of Marcelo Garcia's videos on this. Double unders - scoot under and take the back. Over/Under - I try the same butterfly guard sweep as double overs a lot, seems to work fairly consistently. If you're decent at rubber guard you can try some Omoplata setups if he really likes to drive forward hard.
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Jul 21, 2016 10:51
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You said their hips are low and forward and their feet are wide and back. Where are they keeping their hands? Where is their head relative to yours.
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Jul 21, 2016 11:12
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was watching Kit Dale's seminar (art of learning jiu jitsu) this morning. Informative stuff. Made an analogy about how a lot of people train similar to the kind of guitarists that just read tabs and learn to mimic songs rather than learning to play music and how drilling specific techniques until they become muscle memory is mostly a waste of limited training time. Anyways I'm sure I horribly misinterpreted most of what he said and am just a scumbag white belt but people should watch it if have the chance.
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Jul 21, 2016 17:55
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Yuns posted:You said their hips are low and forward and their feet are wide and back. Where are they keeping their hands? Where is their head relative to yours. They're tying up my head and an arm, or trying to. I think a bunch of people saw that video of the judo guy choking out the bjj guy inside his guard with an ezekial choke and we're trying that or some variation of it. One was trying to do that and reach back to open my guard and pass with no success and we were left in a stale mate where I'd use my hips to push him back and he would just drive back forward. soy posted:was watching Kit Dale's seminar (art of learning jiu jitsu) this morning. Informative stuff. What was his alternative? WayneCampbell fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Jul 21, 2016 |
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Jul 21, 2016 23:13
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double post
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Jul 21, 2016 23:30
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I'm sure Kit Dale is a very good black belt but I find any theory that boils down to "The dull, chorelike aspects of training are overrated and you should do less of them in favor of the fun, interesting parts" to be somewhat suspicious. Like if that's how you want to train go ahead, most of us are in jiujitsu to enjoy ourselves rather than to win world championships, but trying to justify it as the best way to train smacks of insecurity about your motives.
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Jul 21, 2016 23:39
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WayneCampbell posted:They're tying up my head and an arm, or trying to. I think a bunch of people saw that video of the judo guy choking out the bjj guy inside his guard with an ezekial choke and we're trying that or some variation of it. One was trying to do that and reach back to open my guard and pass with no success and we were left in a stale mate where I'd use my hips to push him back and he would just drive back forward.
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Jul 22, 2016 00:27
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I picked up a couple of good tips from that Kit Dale set but he's starting to really annoy me. Drilling roolz He has the potential to be really good and he has the potential to be really funny but he seems to coast on natural talent and quits whenever things get hard Also he likes to talk up how great Keenan Cornelius is all the time, and I can't help feeling that he's just trying to make himself sound better by association because he did well against him
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Jul 22, 2016 00:32
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Yuns posted:Holy poo poo. They are grabbing your head from inside a closed guard? How are your armbars, triangles, or ude gatame? They're semi effective up until mid level blue belts. I'm doing a really bad job of explaining this but they're basically lying on top of me. They' weren't standing so much as just driving their dead weight forward on me while grabbing aggressively at my head and going for an underhook like they were trying to arm triangle me inside my guard. Part of it is I hosed up by letting them get an underhook but this was the first time people were doing this instead of trying to break and pass guard. The one guy in particular was ready to vomit from exhaustion after we were done and succeeded in doing nothing but making me uncomfortable but it was frustrating being stuck there.
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Jul 22, 2016 02:36
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Ezekiel choke them? Loop choke them? I'va got a question for the wrestlers and wrestling enthusiasts here. I've got terrible stand-up and need to address that problem. What is the best intro to wrestling and stand-up fundamentals you guys would recommend on video? Ideally something that covers proper takedown concepts.
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Jul 22, 2016 03:19
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Odddzy posted:Ezekiel choke them? Loop choke them? Royce Alger's Push-Pull System.
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Jul 22, 2016 03:26
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WayneCampbell posted:They're semi effective up until mid level blue belts. I'm doing a really bad job of explaining this but they're basically lying on top of me. They' weren't standing so much as just driving their dead weight forward on me while grabbing aggressively at my head and going for an underhook like they were trying to arm triangle me inside my guard. Part of it is I hosed up by letting them get an underhook but this was the first time people were doing this instead of trying to break and pass guard. Sao Paulo/ Godoi Pass? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atB-G83CZ7I Guess it only kind of applies. If it was me, from the description, I'd be trying to knee push and butterfly them towards the arm they've graciously trapped.. It's a kind of passing I associate with dumb white belts, not upper belts. Someones taught this with some kind of intention, I'm just not sure what. awkward_turtle fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Jul 22, 2016 |
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Jul 22, 2016 03:27
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fatherdog posted:Royce Alger's Push-Pull System. Thanks man.
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Jul 22, 2016 05:06
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Odddzy posted:Thanks man. I should mention - I got it on VHS from my old wrestling coach - it might be hard to find these days. It's 100% the best instructional I've ever watched about wrestling, though.
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Jul 22, 2016 09:07
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fatherdog posted:I should mention - I got it on VHS from my old wrestling coach - it might be hard to find these days. It's 100% the best instructional I've ever watched about wrestling, though. Yeah, i've looked around and it isn't anywhere.
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Jul 22, 2016 15:01
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I've been going to bjj class for around 3 months now. In open grappling, whenever I roll with one of the experienced guys, they go easy on me. But until recently I had no idea just HOW easy they are taking it. We had a couple of nice guys come visit from another gym, a white belt and a blue belt. I paired up with them at the open mat after class and they absolutely annihilated me. It was actually a nice change of pace having someone with some experience actually roll competitively with me.
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Jul 22, 2016 23:45
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kickascii posted:I've been going to bjj class for around 3 months now. In open grappling, whenever I roll with one of the experienced guys, they go easy on me. But until recently I had no idea just HOW easy they are taking it. I think I've related this story before here, but - At the gym I originally trained at, we had an open mat policy and tons of dudes used to float through doing sparring and rolling and etc. A little before I wound up leaving (moved south, commute was too much) we had a couple regulars who were active duty Marines. They were nice guys, in great shape. And I used to wipe the loving floor with them in sparring. Fast forward to about four years later, when I was a purple belt at RABJJ. There was a guy training who was a TUF contestant, did okay on the show, went like 1-2 in the UFC afterwards and got cut to go pick up wins on smaller shows. We were similarly sized, so we wound up sparring a lot. It probably went like 60/40 in his favor; we had similar skill levels but he was a lot more athletic. And at the time, it occurred to me - I would have beaten the living poo poo out of me-four-years-previous. And then I thought about the fact that an active duty, in shape Marine would probably clean up on most regular dudes. So then you figure how much better an active duty Marine is to regular dudes, and how much better me-four-years-previous was to me-purple-belt, and how much better TUF-contestant was to me-purple belt, and then how much better a ranked middleweight was to TUF-contestant, and then how much better Anderson Silva was to the ranked middleweights back then. Like, it's pretty obvious Anderson Silva is a way better fighter than the guy on the street, but that put it into perspective for me - you have to be pretty good to even /understand/ just how /much/ better than the average guy on the street Anderson was. And that's the case for most dudes you see at the top echelon of fighting.
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Jul 23, 2016 00:38
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Odddzy posted:Yeah, i've looked around and it isn't anywhere. Not as good, and focused more on mma than grappling, but more easily findable - Darrel Gholar's "Ultimate Wrestling for Vale Tudo & Submission Grappling" is pretty good.
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Jul 23, 2016 00:47
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John Danaher just dropped some knowledge regarding the Mike Davila situation https://www.facebook.com/john.danaher.96/posts/177893575959701
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Jul 23, 2016 00:53
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JaySB posted:John Danaher just dropped some knowledge regarding the Mike Davila situation This is definitely worth reading. Danaher is a thoughtful dude.
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Jul 23, 2016 01:05
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JaySB posted:John Danaher just dropped some knowledge regarding the Mike Davila situation Reddit seems to be of the opinion that Danahers in the wrong for trying to restrain a students from doing anything or manage his team, but I don't disagree with anything in that post. It takes work and a certain amount of authoritarianism to keep a high level team together. Things that threaten team cohesion unnecessarily need to be quashed.
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Jul 23, 2016 11:00
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An acquaintance of mine was telling me about the first time he went to BJJ class a while back and he says that "they weren't taking it easy on me" and "I almost finished an armbar on a purple belt!". Then he finished the story by saying "then the purple belt escaped pretty quickly and tapped me by with the pressure of holding me down" (not sure specifically how he said he held him down). I told him that the dude was just taking it easy and trying to get him hooked on BJJ and the fact he can tap him with strength/pressure alone, not a technique, is pretty much proof of it, but he didn't believe it. He still goes to BJJ though so it's all good in the end and gently caress me for dumping on the dude for thinking he was doing great, to be fair. e: typos Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Jul 23, 2016 |
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Jul 23, 2016 14:03
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newbies come in all shapes and attitudes. purple belts will gently caress with them all differently and on a long enough timeline they all realise how aggressively retarded they were. let nature take its course.
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Jul 23, 2016 14:12
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Purple belts are so much fun to roll with, as a blue belt. They're just so in control of everything. Blues and whites become fights but purple, while I'm getting destroyed, is great
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Jul 23, 2016 14:18
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I try to stay out of BJJ politics but it's irritating to hear people malign my friends and teammates. While we're not friends, I don't dislike Mike in any way. He made the best decision for himself and that's fine. I don't mind him defending himself either. He absolutely has a right to defend himself and tell his side of the story. But I hate the social media chorus who have no idea about and have never met any of the people involved who have strong opinions on how John should run his team. People think they know John from just a few interviews and social media posts. They don't. He's not yoda. We know John as an actual person with strengths and faults and quirks of personality. John is extremely intelligent and thoughtful but can also be very blunt and critical. Training under John isn't a place for those who get their feeling hurt easily. If he doesn't think you're ready, he won't be shy about saying so. John also doesn't run his classes and competition squad like a cult. The average guy in his morning class is older and successful in many aspects of life not just BJJ. We all have strong personalities and our own opinions. Where we do trust John is in matters of jiu jitsu and fighting. When John says in his post subs went up 150% that's not a made up number. He actually tracks performance of the class qualitatively and quantitatively over time in an OCD way. Yuns fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Jul 23, 2016 |
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Jul 23, 2016 14:53
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Josuke Higashikata posted:An acquaintance of mine was telling me about the first time he went to BJJ class a while back and he says that "they weren't taking it easy on me" and "I almost finished an armbar on a purple belt!". Then he finished the story by saying "then the purple belt escaped pretty quickly and tapped me by with the pressure of holding me down" (not sure specifically how he said he held him down). The only time I've been tough on a new grappler was once I mistook a white belt for a wrestler since he had a total wrestler build. I didn't want to gently caress around with a potential wrestler and opened our roll by full speed blast doubling him into the mat then locking on a hard submission. Felt bad when I realized that he was a white belt with like 9 months of experience. Yuns fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Jul 23, 2016 |
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Jul 23, 2016 15:08
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