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Schwarzwald posted:I'm not sure what your point is. It's true that the Jedi don't think twice about killing droids. It's true that the chopped up droids aren't depicted as gory. I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. Some people are just angry about the sequels a decade after the last one was released, unaware that the uncritical anger towards them is what keeps them dissatisfied.
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Jul 22, 2016 20:32
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Yaws posted:Look at Qui-Gon decapitating this person without a thought WARNING NWS Violence doesn't have to be gory to have meaning or importance. The movies use droids as a way to show you how little Jedi actually care about sentient life. Their use of clone slaves is another indication of this.
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Jul 22, 2016 20:39
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...and... SuperMechagodzilla posted:Everything about the tie ships emphasizes that they are drone-like, acting as an extension of the Death Star and lacking autonomy. There's obviously no way a tie pilot could desert and escape to another part of the galaxy in a tie fighter (oops, TFA). That's true and it's not just in the imagery; Obi-Wan says that it's a short range ship in response to Luke wondering if the one outside the Death Star was part of a convoy. But it's not an oops for TFA. The escape is to the planet that the mother ship is orbiting.
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Jul 22, 2016 20:46
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Serf posted:Violence doesn't have to be gory to have meaning or importance. The movies use droids as a way to show you how little Jedi actually care about sentient life. Their use of clone slaves is another indication of this. The Jedi do care about sentient life. Military droids (with an AI controlled by a central computer) made by a militant corporation invading a sovereign nation? Not so much.
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Jul 22, 2016 20:47
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Serf posted:Violence doesn't have to be gory to have meaning or importance. The movies use droids as a way to show you how little Jedi actually care about sentient life. Their use of clone slaves is another indication of this. I sort of jolted in RotS when Obi-Wan tells Anakin he can't go back and help the clones because they are doing their job so they (the Jedi) can do theirs. The "job" being to sacrifice themselves so the Jedi can get through. He's right in a pragmatic sense, but the total lack of empathy or hesitation was clear.
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Jul 22, 2016 20:50
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Yaws posted:The Jedi do care about sentient life. Really? They're perfectly content to allow slavery to exist (over humans) so long as it happens over there. They make use of cloned slaves as an army. "The ability to speak does not make you intelligent." "Why do I get the feeling we've picked up another pathetic life form?"
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Jul 22, 2016 20:51
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Of course slavery is legal in the galaxy for nondroids as well
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Jul 22, 2016 21:01
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Tunicate posted:Of course slavery is legal in the galaxy for nondroids as well Apparently only in the Not Republic parts, unless you're a clone, in which case sorry bud.
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Jul 22, 2016 21:03
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RBA Starblade posted:Apparently only in the Not Republic parts, unless you're a clone, in which case sorry bud. It's also apparently not a guarantee there is no slaving in the republic parts either given consistency of the application of law doesn't appear to be the republics strongest suit. I mean only Padme seems surprised their are human slaves while Qui Gon doesn't seem particularly vexed that there are slaves regardless of who controls the system. Also do you think Anakin tracked down his friends from childhood when he returned to tattooine? Is there a gently caress awful EU story about this?
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Jul 22, 2016 21:16
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Barudak posted:Also do you think Anakin tracked down his friends from childhood when he returned to tattooine? Is there a gently caress awful EU story about this? That's actually one of the more overtly depressing parts of the prequel era EU...Anakin never gets the chance to do anything about it ever. We see in AotC what happened when he delayed coming back for his mom...a couple of his friends get similar (but less fatal) ends in Legends. Kitster is stuck on tatooine with no hope of leaving 30 years later when Han and Leia bump into him
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Jul 22, 2016 21:27
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Barudak posted:It's also apparently not a guarantee there is no slaving in the republic parts either given consistency of the application of law doesn't appear to be the republics strongest suit. I mean only Padme seems surprised their are human slaves while Qui Gon doesn't seem particularly vexed that there are slaves regardless of who controls the system. There is an alright-ish story about Han and Leia chasing a painting across Tattooine while learning about Anakin's childhood. They meet some of Anakin's slave friends all aged up.
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Jul 22, 2016 21:29
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Edit: gently caress fouble posts.
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Jul 22, 2016 21:29
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The OT makes droids worse than second class citizens, but it's kinda weird how in The Phantom Menace the fake-queen says R2 is worthy of their gratitude and makes the real-queen scrub down a robotic slave.
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Jul 22, 2016 22:44
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Mortanis posted:The OT makes droids worse than second class citizens, but it's kinda weird how in The Phantom Menace the fake-queen says R2 is worthy of their gratitude and makes the real-queen scrub down a robotic slave. I'm pretty sure that's an intentional move by the real queen. It's her ploy to personally thank said droid and in the film establish her anti slave credentials prior to encountering Anakin. If anything it's extremely heavy handed foreshadowing to her behavior towards him of becoming emotionally attached to things society has rejected and the suicidal devotion she inspires in them. Edit: the prequels are real good and my only complaint about attack of the clones is I feel like it'd be better served being two films.
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Jul 22, 2016 22:47
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The prequels have great ideas and they are fun to talk about and then you actually sit down and watch it again and see the acting and you're like oh right these movies are trash.
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Jul 22, 2016 22:54
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kiimo posted:The prequels have great ideas and they are fun to talk about and then you actually sit down and watch it again and see the acting and you're like oh right these movies are trash. Actually they're fun and enjoyable, even TFA which is garbage is moderately enjoyable to watch.
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Jul 22, 2016 22:57
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kiimo posted:The prequels have great ideas and they are fun to talk about and then you actually sit down and watch it again and see the acting and you're like oh right these movies are trash. I'm gonna have to disagree pretty hard here. Pretty much everybody does a great job across the board. I know some people don't like anakin and Padme but you have to admit Sheev and Obiwan are perfect.
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Jul 22, 2016 23:00
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Barudak posted:I'm gonna have to disagree pretty hard here. Pretty much everybody does a great job across the board. I know some people don't like anakin and Padme but you have to admit Sheev and Obiwan are perfect. As soon as you start laughing at the way Anakin constantly preens in front of Padmé and repeatedly gets shot down, AOTC really clicks.
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Jul 22, 2016 23:13
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Also Obi-Wan being an hypocrite. "Anakin, don't do stupid death-defying jumps!" *just did a stupid death-defying jump give seconds ago*
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Jul 22, 2016 23:20
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Only the sith deal in absolutes!
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Jul 22, 2016 23:24
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I'm talking in the context of A New Hope (hence the reference to the death-star as a central 'hive'). Empire Strikes Back does things quite a bit differently.
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Jul 22, 2016 23:39
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kiimo posted:The prequels have great ideas and they are fun to talk about and then you actually sit down and watch it again and see the acting and you're like oh right these movies are trash. Yeah pretty much.
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Jul 22, 2016 23:50
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I'm talking in the context of A New Hope (hence the reference to the death-star as a central 'hive'). Empire Strikes Back does things quite a bit differently. This doesn't really fly as an excuse when you then try to blame TFA for somehow making an oopsie about it. We see ships that lack aerodynamism take off and land on planets in ANH, it is not something the series takes seriously. Over the course of all the movies we see plenty of ships land and take off in atmosphere that would have no real business doing so. Jerkface fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Jul 23, 2016 |
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Jul 23, 2016 00:14
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Barudak posted:I'm gonna have to disagree pretty hard here. Pretty much everybody does a great job across the board. I know some people don't like anakin and Padme but you have to admit Sheev and Obiwan are perfect. TPM in general is pretty good too. It's a little slow on Tatooine until the pod race but otherwise it works pretty well.
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Jul 23, 2016 00:35
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Jerkface posted:This doesn't really fly as an excuse when you then try to blame TFA for somehow making an oopsie about it. We see ships that lack aerodynamism take off and land on planets in ANH, it is not something the series takes seriously. Over the course of all the movies we see plenty of ships land and take off in atmosphere that would have no real business doing so. Repulsorlifts and inertial compensators are wonderful things, aren't they?
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Jul 23, 2016 00:36
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computer parts posted:TPM in general is pretty good too. It's a little slow on Tatooine until the pod race but otherwise it works pretty well. Oh hell yeah. The film lulls a bit when it sets up the gungans and the initial scouting of tattooine but it's all real good stuff and culminates in a real fun ending sequence which has probably the saber duel in the franchise. Plus pod racing is awesome
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Jul 23, 2016 01:08
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jivjov posted:Repulsorlifts and inertial compensators are wonderful things, aren't they? As is FLUBBER.
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Jul 23, 2016 01:11
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Jerkface posted:This doesn't really fly as an excuse when you then try to blame TFA for somehow making an oopsie about it. We see ships that lack aerodynamism take off and land on planets in ANH, it is not something the series takes seriously. Over the course of all the movies we see plenty of ships land and take off in atmosphere that would have no real business doing so. It has nothing to do with real-world aerodynamics. The point is that the fighters are evocative of pods and satellites, designed for zero-gravity. The fighters have no landing gear whatsoever, and lack the tapered shape of pretty much every other ship in the series.  A GPS satellite, circa 1976. Those vehicles like the x-wing are 'friendly' - recognizably analogous to planes, cars and boats. Tie fighters are, on the contrary, weirdly alien 'futuretech' designs. It's difficult to intuit exactly how they propel themselves (is it something in the vertical (nonfunctional) 'wings'?). That's the reason the earliest precursor designs, invented for the prequels, look like this:  The triangular shape is gradually pared away, (a process that's still ongoing in Rogue 1) until all you have left is the spherical pod. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Jul 23, 2016 |
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Jul 23, 2016 01:34
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Barudak posted:I'm gonna have to disagree pretty hard here. Pretty much everybody does a great job across the board. I know some people don't like anakin and Padme but you have to admit Sheev and Obiwan are perfect. I like Padme and Anakin fine. They're two kids who were robbed of having normal childhoods, so of course they're unable to process their feelings and are awkward as gently caress around one another.
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Jul 23, 2016 01:43
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It has nothing to do with real-world aerodynamics. The point is that the fighters are evocative of pods and satellites, designed for zero-gravity. The fighters have no landing gear whatsoever, and lack the tapered shape of pretty much every other ship in the series. Ok but this has nothing to do with TFA doing an oopsie as you tried to claim. One of your oopsies is you just botching a plot point and the other has already been established as something that is ok in the OT. The TIEs do not even land in either case, but simply fly in atmosphere. Which can be appropriate, for a world(ours) with a nebulous amount of satellites floating in the sky, the idea of angry satellites destroying stuff on the ground is terrifying. A fitting move for the ships which were designed with screaming engines meant to instill fear.
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Jul 23, 2016 02:01
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Davros1 posted:I like Padme and Anakin fine. They're two kids who were robbed of having normal childhoods, so of course they're unable to process their feelings and are awkward as gently caress around one another. I was fortunate in that I saw Rebel Without A Cause shortly before AotC came out so the complaints about Christensen's acting never made much sense to me. If I had a criticism it would be that he plays to that Dean type super heavily but ultimately that's a good take on the character and likely exactly what Lucas had in mind. I'm rather interested to see if Rian Johnson swings the style somewhere closer to it's classical cinema roots. I think TFA would have been a lot better/more engaging if Abrams had stuck to his guns with visual flair. I really missed his penchant for dramatic near-blinding light matched to disorienting fast camera movement (think like the intro to ST '09) which feels rather natural matched to the fast editing style that was much more consistent with his other works. Like all those jokes or w/e about Abrams and lens flare but it's absence was really noticeable in TFA where he easily could have gone all out with it (it would have been very consistent with light motifs that already existed in the movie)
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Jul 23, 2016 02:29
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The problem is Anakin and Padme don't sound awkward, they sound like they're genuinely retarded any time they interact with each other. Or that they were written by an old man out of touch with how younglings talk.
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Jul 23, 2016 02:48
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Darth Jar Jar is honestly the best set up subtle thing in the prequels 
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Jul 23, 2016 02:55
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The mistakes in TFA are not mistakes of the plot; I am specifically not talking about the plot. The FN character attempts to steal a short-range pod so he can fly to the other side of the galaxy. That's not strictly an error in plot terms ("the moglump industries TIE8 has a max speed of 187 kiloparsecs per cycle!") but in the choice of imagery employed. The pod is not evocative of concepts like 'escape' or 'freedom'. (You could argue that FN is simply dumb here, but one of his character traits is that he's very familiar with his team's stuff.) Later, the same pods are used in the airstrike sequence. But again, it's not the right kind of imagery. When helicopter gunships were needed for the ending of Episode 2, the filmmakers simply created a new type of ship for the sequence. Imagine if they'd just used tie fighters there instead.
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Jul 23, 2016 02:58
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The mistakes in TFA are not mistakes of the plot; I am specifically not talking about the plot. The Special Forces TIEs have hyperdrives; Finn absolutely could take one across the galaxy. And I'm pretty sure that the airstrike stuff uses primarily regular First Order TIEs, not the Special Forces variant
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Jul 23, 2016 03:01
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I could see it working on a better level if they stole, say, Kylo Ren's shuttle. Schlub (why would this autocorrect to Schubert!?!) about to be Brainwashed/fired decides gently caress it and goes Joyriding in his bosses sleek new company car.
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Jul 23, 2016 03:02
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jivjov posted:The Special Forces TIEs have hyperdrives; Finn absolutely could take one across the galaxy. That may be what it says on wookiepedia, but that information doesn't exist the film - visually or otherwise.  And it's something easily conveyed through design alone.
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Jul 23, 2016 03:07
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:That may be what it says on wookiepedia, but that information doesn't exist the film - visually or otherwise. Why would Finn and Poe steal a non-hyperdrive equipped ship? Simple logic dictates that it does, and it's not just Wookieepedia that establishes the TIE/sf has a hyperdrive. (In fact, the Wook establishes nothing. It is a collection of information from other sources)
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Jul 23, 2016 03:13
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jivjov posted:Why would Finn and Poe steal a non-hyperdrive equipped ship? Simple logic dictates that they stole the ship they could with the intention of getting away from the ship they were on. Poe already knows there's life on Jakku, and they were near Jakku.
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Jul 23, 2016 03:16
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homullus posted:Simple logic dictates that they stole the ship they could with the intention of getting away from the ship they were on. Poe already knows there's life on Jakku, and they were near Jakku. And Finn would rather go anywhere but Jakku. Why would he take Poe to a ship only capable of returning to Jakku? And again, canonically, the TIE/sf is equipped with a hyperdrive.
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Jul 23, 2016 03:35
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