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Pussy Noise posted:If you want to make an intelligent argument against Kiihottaminen kansanryhmää vastaan, it might be useful to read the law (http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1889/18890039001#L11P10), and then read the relevant hallituksen esitys (http://www.finlex.fi/fi/esitykset/he/2010/20100317). More like reasonable argument for Being Excitement, I'd posit myself... This far the information superhighway has given the following arguments for the law: 1) without it, you can make death threats and mussulmen can preach kill homos. This is untrue. Other laws cover these. 2) the law is not used very often. True, we don't need it! And even when it is, because it's a thought crime law, the tulkinta vaihtelee kovasti, anything can be Excitement, or nothing can be. No one can tell. 3) getting rid of it was suggested by the Arsefinn Jugend, so therefore the law must be protected like a national treasure. This is a poor argument. What is said should matter, not who says it (a concept forgotten by modern "liberals"). There's nothing else. I'm sure it pleases people when their opponents are brought to court even with supervague thought crime charges, but it's not quite as fun when you are in the receiving end. And it could be you after a slight political shift. That isn't a very good haul IMHO?
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Jul 22, 2016 12:30
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Ligur posted:
No, other laws cover death threats (laiton uhkaus) and or insults (kunnianloukkaus) made to individuals or specific organizations. Mussulmen preaching to kill homos would be covered by the law you want to be removed. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Jul 22, 2016 |
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Jul 22, 2016 12:50
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That isn't true.
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Jul 22, 2016 12:55
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Yeah 24. luku contains stuff about harassment and 25. luku about threats against individuals. 11. luku 10 § is about similar concepts against a group. Turns out that the wikipedia page https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiihotus_kansanryhm%C3%A4%C3%A4_vastaan has a pretty good list of cases with this rikosnimike.
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Jul 22, 2016 12:59
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Ligur posted:That isn't true. Sure it is. Let me bold the relevant parts of the law in this example quote:Joka asettaa yleisön saataville tai muutoin yleisön keskuuteen levittää tai pitää yleisön saatavilla tiedon, mielipiteen tai muun viestin, jossa uhataan, panetellaan tai solvataan jotakin ryhmää rodun, ihonvärin, syntyperän, kansallisen tai etnisen alkuperän, uskonnon tai vakaumuksen, seksuaalisen suuntautumisen tai vammaisuuden perusteella taikka niihin rinnastettavalla muulla perusteella, on tuomittava kiihottamisesta kansanryhmää vastaan sakkoon tai vankeuteen enintään kahdeksi vuodeksi. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 13:06 on Jul 22, 2016 |
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Jul 22, 2016 13:03
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All that is covered by other laws. edit: This could be a relevant case to the question in hand. Muslim "community leader" in Finland compares people weeded out by Ergodans cronies as "a virus" that ought to be purged. I don't give a poo poo. But this is exactly like the "hate speech" that would get every AssFinn on every newspaper and possibly prosecuted. This ain't right. Mustafa Karan can call anyone he wants viruses, so we can point a finger and ridicule him without courts involved. And IMO this is as it should be. Imagine if Hakkarainen called Somalis a "virus" infecting Finland... Ligur fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Jul 22, 2016 |
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Jul 22, 2016 13:11
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What other laws, specifically? Your example is not relevant because this group is not protected under the law. Seriously, read the hallituksen esitys, it has some good discussion on why the law says what it does.
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Jul 22, 2016 13:35
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Ligur posted:All that is covered by other laws. Name them. Ligur posted:This could be a relevant case to the question in hand. Muslim "community leader" in Finland compares people weeded out by Ergodans cronies as "a virus" that ought to be purged. And it's completely legal for anyone to make a police report or sue them for that. "People who are against Erdögan" is vague enough concept that I would imagine it has a difficulty of being accepted as being targeted against one group in particular since it includes anything from ultranationalists to ultrasecularists to other Islamists to Kurdish groups but they could try to make the argument and would be fully within their rights to do so. Halla-Aho was given pass by two courts before he went to third one for the offense being discussed here so I don't think this guy would have hard time avoiding the charge though.
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Jul 22, 2016 13:55
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Ligur posted:This could be a relevant case to the question in hand. Muslim "community leader" in Finland compares people weeded out by Ergodans cronies as "a virus" that ought to be purged. Snitch on him, make a rikosilmoitus
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Jul 22, 2016 14:14
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Why is it that every single time some Ligur makes a factual claim about law, society or statistics, five minutes of factchecking is enough to show that said claim is bullshit? Maybe y'all should stick to ranting about them foreigners without actually saying anything, because this poo poo is getting sad to watch.
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Jul 22, 2016 14:30
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Cerebral Bore posted:Why is it that every single time some Ligur makes a factual claim about law, society or statistics, five minutes of factchecking is enough to show that said claim is bullshit? It is because you are a moron and cannot really undestand what you read. No problem, thanks to you too.
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Jul 22, 2016 14:53
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Why is it that every Ligur, whose every post simultaneously seems to be and not be a joke, is so terminally unfunny that the best repartee they can muster is "no u"?
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Jul 22, 2016 15:15
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Cerebral Bore posted:Why is it that every Ligur, whose every post simultaneously seems to be and not be a joke, is so terminally unfunny that the best repartee they can muster is "no u"? I have a solution, just stop reading posts that do not please you.
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Jul 22, 2016 16:05
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Ligur posted:I have a solution, just stop reading posts that do not please you. This is kinda funny coming from a guy that spends half of his posts whining about how people don't want to read your hot takes.
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Jul 22, 2016 16:15
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Cerebral Bore posted:This is kinda funny coming from a guy that spends half of his posts whining about how people don't want to read your hot takes.
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Jul 22, 2016 16:24
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Jul 22, 2016 16:38
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So can one of the resident nazis tell me if the alleged explosion in Kallio has already been blamed on refugees by Hommists etc.? Because one news site already posted "witnesses report seeing people from the nearby refugee centre watching the fire" (the same fire they themselves were watching) and that just struck me as an odd thing to print/post unless you actively want to feed the ligurs or are a literal moron. e: OK it was Ilta-Sanomat which, of course, isn't a news site. My apologies.
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Jul 22, 2016 21:14
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Cerebral Bore posted:Why is it that every single time some Ligur makes a factual claim about law, society or statistics, five minutes of factchecking is enough to show that said claim is bullshit? Cerebral Bore posted:Why is it that every Ligur, whose every post simultaneously seems to be and not be a joke, is so terminally unfunny that the best repartee they can muster is "no u"? 
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Jul 22, 2016 21:23
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Jul 22, 2016 21:28
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white racist men promoting abolition of uskonrauhan loukkaaminen and kiihotus kansanryhmää kohtaan and using some other minority as their keppihevonen omo color me loving surprised
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Jul 22, 2016 21:35
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hetkinen, vertasivatko saara ja reijo juuri muslimeja natseihin?
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Jul 22, 2016 23:21
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Hogge Wild posted:hetkinen, vertasivatko saara ja reijo juuri muslimeja natseihin? Todisteena tästä on kuinka monta pakolaista lähti muka vapaaehtoisesti, oikeasti viranomaiset pakottivat heidät laittomasti ulos.
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Jul 22, 2016 23:50
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 jaahas, saksassa on sitten tehty uusi jalla-jalla
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Jul 23, 2016 02:31
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The response is something to behold 
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Jul 23, 2016 09:53
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Yöllä vielä kaikki internetpaikat oli täynnä juttuja siitä että kaikki viisikymmentä ampujaa olivat Saksalaisia uusnatseja. TÄLLÄ KERTAA NÄIN PÄIN!
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Jul 23, 2016 13:05
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Jerry Cotton posted:Yöllä vielä kaikki internetpaikat oli täynnä juttuja siitä että kaikki viisikymmentä ampujaa olivat Saksalaisia uusnatseja. TÄLLÄ KERTAA NÄIN PÄIN! ampuja oli tupla-arjalainen
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Jul 23, 2016 13:14
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Hogge Wild posted:ampuja oli tupla-arjalainen Oh wow I just read up on the dude and he was legitimately* crazy. WHO'D HAVE THOUGHT!?!? *) See what I didn't say there?
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Jul 23, 2016 13:18
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He was apparently a school shooting enthusiast and a Breivik fan (I assume because of the shooting, not because of nazismus)
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Jul 23, 2016 14:35
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Summer breaks must be a depressing time for school shooting enthusiasts.
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Jul 23, 2016 14:37
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A former colleague used to use the saying "pitääkö tässä jatkaa siitä mihin Jokelassa jäätiin" a lot* and then he got mad when I gave him the nick-name Alistaja. *) When he was very drunk he'd just say "Kuolema. Kuolema tulee" over and over again. Cheerful sort of fellow!
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Jul 23, 2016 14:39
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Se on hauskaa kun joka kerta jos sattuu ja tapahtuu kaikki paikat on täynnä vassareita jotka ilkamoi kuinka natsit taas hah tämä viimeistään oikeuttaa meidän raivon. Mutta se onkin aina musulmaani. Ehkä nyt ei ollut, niin päästään pohtimaan ketä voi syyttää mistäkin.
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Jul 23, 2016 15:55
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Ligur posted:Se on hauskaa kun joka kerta jos sattuu ja tapahtuu kaikki paikat on täynnä vassareita jotka ilkamoi kuinka natsit taas hah tämä viimeistään oikeuttaa meidän raivon. And even when it's not musulmaani-related you still have to whine about leftists and musulmaanis, that's also pretty funny Mind naming the other laws that make incitement law useless by the way? I feel like you have had plenty of opportunities for that by now. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Jul 23, 2016 |
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Jul 23, 2016 15:59
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You stupid illiterate mental midget. DarkCrawler used to be much more chill but he has really become a total tool. * 7 § (21.4.1995/578) Laiton uhkaus. * Julkinen kehottaminen rikokseen on Suomen rikoslain 17 luvun 1 §:ssä määritelty sananvapausrikos. * Then there is Kunnianloukkaus. 24 part 9 § IIRC. Preaching "we must kill X or Y group, go do it" is illegal, we do not need excitement laws for that. Excitement against a group is so ambiguous nobody even knows what it is. I'm surprised there is so mcuh support for thought crimes, even here.
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Jul 23, 2016 16:17
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I didn't see any mention of the dude being Muslim?
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Jul 23, 2016 16:17
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Also terrorists are really bad but so are nazis. They are literally the scum of the earth.
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Jul 23, 2016 16:18
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Jerry Cotton posted:Also terrorists are really bad but so are nazis. They are literally the scum of the earth. They also put a man on the Moon 
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Jul 23, 2016 16:25
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Rappaport posted:They also put a man on the Moon Muslim scientists were mighty knowledgeable 
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Jul 23, 2016 16:28
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On se vittu ihmeellistä. Silloin kun Breivik flipahti meillä oli joka pääkirjoitus täynnä äärioikeiston vaaraa, ja joku lehti (olisko ollut peräti Hesari) julisti, että nyt ei pidä jättää yhtään kiveä kääntämättä, kaikki syylliset on saatava esiin. Jokaista "oikeistopopulustia" syytettiin iskusta jos ei suoraan niin mutkan kautta, ja random Halla-aholle soiteltiin puhelimella ja kysyttiin "paljasta, mikä oli yhteytesi ampujaan". Oikeesti, sille soiteltiin ja kyseltiin sitä miksi hän on opettanut Breivikiä. Minuakin syytettiin täällä siitä, ei tosin Suomi-ketjussa, että ylläpidän ideologiaa joka mahdollistaa breivikit joten se on minun syy. Ei se nyt paljon päätä pakota, mutta vähän jännää asia. Silti, kas kummaa! Tämä ei toimi ollenkaan samalla tavalla kun Allahu Akbar -mies ajaa rekalla lapsien yli. Sitten ei saakaan syyllistää eikä yleistää, eikä soitella paikalliseen moskeijaan ja vaatia Imaamia vastaamaan kysymykseen "miksi teitte näin". Vitun tyhmäähän se olisikin, mutta ihmisten suhtautuminen silloin kun on muslimi vs silloin kun on valkonaama on kyllä helvetin jännää. (Tämä tuorein Saksan ampuja tuskin oli hirveän Akbar, puhun nyt edellisistä iskuista, tosin mistä sitäkään voi tietää.) Ligur fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Jul 23, 2016 |
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Jul 23, 2016 16:32
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Jerry Cotton posted:Muslim scientists were mighty knowledgeable Yksittäistapaukset eivät liity islamiin?
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Jul 23, 2016 16:35
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Ligur posted:You stupid illiterate mental midget. DarkCrawler used to be much more chill but he has really become a total tool. please rational finnish language people, keep calling Ligur out on his stupid poorly-hidden neo-nazi bullshit, it makes him really mad and onlookers very happy
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Jul 23, 2016 16:36
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