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SedanChair posted:Bigotry is OK, or not worth mentioning, because after all it is the status quo. Those two things would be a lot less offensive if they weren't actually used, yes.
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Jul 23, 2016 19:42
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Ugh my sister is on Facebook calling me a sellout for supporting Hillary and saying I like Tim Kaine.
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Jul 23, 2016 19:43
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greatn posted:Ugh my sister is on Facebook calling me a sellout for supporting Hillary and saying I like Tim Kaine. Post her SSN and credit card numbers!
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Jul 23, 2016 19:44
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if the Bern was anywhere near a good candidate or had non-terrible policies I could get wishing crimes on people that you politically disagree with, but, drat, now I am more eager for Clinton to be president so I can use that salt for my squirrels to lick
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Jul 23, 2016 19:44
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Zanzibar Ham posted:Those two things would be a lot less offensive if they weren't actually used, yes. Interesting, I would think they would raise serious questions about the ethics and character of the organization that allowed staffers to air such ideas.
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Jul 23, 2016 19:45
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hallebarrysoetoro posted:if the Bern was anywhere near a good candidate or had non-terrible policies I could get wishing crimes on people that you politically disagree with, but, drat, now I am more eager for Clinton to be president so I can use that salt for my squirrels to lick If you want some serious salt just wait for president Trump. Every incremental step the Democrats take to the right is another win for Trump. It vastly underestimates the amount of xenophobia and racism in the US. I remember when tons of people on this forum were all like, no way does Trump get the nom he's too loving crazy, but look at what just happened. So long as the democratic party continues disenfranchising the left they will keep shedding left voters who will continue to just not show up to vote because they think of ballots as nearly useless, or vote for some other candidate. They'll then bear the brunt of the blame for not electing Hillary when the democratic party didn't even try to court left voters. The democratic base will use the same nonsense argument they used during 2000 with Nader and blame everyone but themselves when they lose. Doorknob Slobber fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Jul 23, 2016 |
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Jul 23, 2016 19:47
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Yinlock posted:yes the only reason people would show empathy is to score rhetorical points Accusing people of virtue signalling should have a rule like Godwin's where rscott now loses this and has to go away
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Jul 23, 2016 19:47
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SedanChair posted:Interesting, I would think they would raise serious questions about the ethics and character of the organization that allowed staffers to air such ideas. what about the ethics and character of Sanders voters rotten apple spoils the barrel...makes you think.
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Jul 23, 2016 19:47
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hallebarrysoetoro posted:what about the ethics and character of Sanders voters Well, we're talking about staffers. If we're talking about Bernie voters we'd have to talk about Hillary voters, in which case the floor is the limit.
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Jul 23, 2016 19:49
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SedanChair posted:Interesting, I would think they would raise serious questions about the ethics and character of the organization that allowed staffers to air such ideas.
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Jul 23, 2016 19:49
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SedanChair posted:Interesting, I would think they would raise serious questions about the ethics and character of the organization that allowed staffers to air such ideas. Did they air it to anyone beyond each other? Was this some kind of all-staff memo and I missed it? I've managed emails for companies, people write incredibly stupid poo poo in their work emails all the time. That doesn't suddenly make the rest of the org aware of or responsible for them. I'm actually genuinely curious on this, is there any proof this was more widespread than these two dudes? It would lend a lot of credence to your point.
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Jul 23, 2016 19:50
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SedanChair posted:Interesting, I would think they would raise serious questions about the ethics and character of the organization that allowed staffers to air such ideas. Zore posted:.... That has nothing to do with the emails though? I mean you made a good shot at shifting the goalposts from "releasing people's identity and financial information is justified for an(admittedly bad) email" to " Antisemitism is bad", but you still haven't justified your initial argument.
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Jul 23, 2016 19:50
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The average cost of a data breach in 2016 is $158, considering we're talking about SSN & CC numbers its going to be much more than that but we'll just roll with the low number. Oh roughly $1.7 million in money going to criminal orgs, terrorist and hostile nation states and out of citizen pockets. But this is about identity politics.
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Jul 23, 2016 19:51
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greatn posted:Ugh my sister is on Facebook calling me a sellout for supporting Hillary and saying I like Tim Kaine. I really don't understand the ire some Democrats have for Sanders or Clinton. I preferred the former, but I was happy with the Democratic primary choices this cycle, and I think they were both good candidates. It's just baffling though that some, like your sister, are holding out on supporting Clinton because she won a primary. Someone has to win, and, big shock, it's not always your guy.
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Jul 23, 2016 19:51
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SoggyBobcat posted:They appear to be fine since the ideas were squashed? Not squashed enough. Brad Marshall, who floated the idea, is CFO of the DNC and is still employed there.
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Jul 23, 2016 19:52
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SedanChair posted:Interesting, I would think they would raise serious questions about the ethics and character of the organization that allowed staffers to air such ideas. Can you link the whole conversation concerning this brainstorming session? I want to see how it went but I can only find the one specific e-mail in it.
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Jul 23, 2016 19:53
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SedanChair posted:Not squashed enough. Brad Marshall, who floated the idea, is CFO of the DNC and is still employed there. Think evil, do good.
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Jul 23, 2016 19:53
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Nichael posted:I really don't understand the ire some Democrats have for Sanders or Clinton. I preferred the former, but I was happy with the Democratic primary choices this cycle, and I think they were both good candidates. It's just baffling though that some, like your sister, are holding out on supporting Clinton because she won a primary. Someone has to win, and, big shock, it's not always your guy. my ire for sanders is solely because he gave the left in america a voice, and the left in america is absolutely loving insufferable.
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Jul 23, 2016 19:53
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Cat Army 
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SedanChair posted:Well, we're talking about staffers. If we're talking about Bernie voters we'd have to talk about Hillary voters, in which case the floor is the limit. I'm talking about independent people and not a hivemind, you're talking about the shadowy conspiracy that consists of a poorly run campaign being called out as such. You remember how back when Sanders got his campaign up and running and how it was universally pointed out how he started too late and didn't have the Rolodex to attract anything but C level talent?
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Jul 23, 2016 19:54
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Yinlock posted:I mean you made a good shot at shifting the goalposts from "releasing people's identity and financial information is justified for an(admittedly bad) email" to " Antisemitism is bad", but you still haven't justified your initial argument. I still believe both of those things. I haven't seen any need to further justify them because all I'm hearing is "politics is dirty" which excuses everything up to and including Trump. If politics is dirty, non-politicians have to be dirty or they are at a permanent disadvantage.
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Jul 23, 2016 19:54
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SedanChair posted:Staffers spitballing how to paint Bernie Sanders as an atheist fake Jew is not a bombshell? I suppose if you've lowered your expectations to the point of clinical depression that would be the case. It's not about him being Jewish! It's about trying to court Southern Baptists who specifically hate Atheists. The question was literally "Can we get confirmation of whether Bernie Sanders is <good thing> or <other good thing>? The people we're working with like <good thing> but dislike <other good thing>, so him being <good thing> would help us out."
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Jul 23, 2016 19:54
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Nichael posted:I really don't understand the ire some Democrats have for Sanders or Clinton. I preferred the former, but I was happy with the Democratic primary choices this cycle, and I think they were both good candidates. It's just baffling though that some, like your sister, are holding out on supporting Clinton because she won a primary. Someone has to win, and, big shock, it's not always your guy. I may not agree with the term sellout, but Bernie attracted a fair amount of people who are not Democrats. Those people probably wouldn't vote democrat unless the candidate they voted for was perceived as an outsider or force of change for the party. So I think its fair for those people to be upset and not support a candidate that they don't like.
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Jul 23, 2016 19:54
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SedanChair posted:Not squashed enough. Brad Marshall, who floated the idea, is CFO of the DNC and is still employed there. It's OK, it was just an idea he floated and wrote down for consideration. He came up with it, but it doesn't show anything about him as a person or his beliefs, and sure doesn't say anything bad about the DNC for employing him in such a high position. But you know, I heard he's an atheist.
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Jul 23, 2016 19:55
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Zanzibar Ham posted:Can you link the whole conversation concerning this brainstorming session? I want to see how it went but I can only find the one specific e-mail in it. quote:From:MARSHALL@dnc.org quote:AMEN
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Jul 23, 2016 19:55
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Nichael posted:I really don't understand the ire some Democrats have for Sanders or Clinton. I preferred the former, but I was happy with the Democratic primary choices this cycle, and I think they were both good candidates. It's just baffling though that some, like your sister, are holding out on supporting Clinton because she won a primary. Someone has to win, and, big shock, it's not always your guy. It's more Two-Party stuff, the Republicans are(or have been) voting lockstep for a long time, so Everyone Else had to band together to oppose them in any meaningful way. This leads to one party having a variety of beliefs and policies, which isn't a bad thing for a government but disastrous for a single party. Basically Democrats are "everyone that isn't straight-up Republican" which means they have everyone from "stereotypical hippie" to "one step removed from fascism" and any one of them will vote differently on different things. Two party system yaaaay!
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Jul 23, 2016 19:55
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Nichael posted:I really don't understand the ire some Democrats have for Sanders or Clinton. I preferred the former, but I was happy with the Democratic primary choices this cycle, and I think they were both good candidates. It's just baffling though that some, like your sister, are holding out on supporting Clinton because she won a primary. Someone has to win, and, big shock, it's not always your guy. Some people get emotionally attached to the candidate instead of the ideals which that candidate represents. Other people find the idea of supporting the outsider and "fighting the system" to be extremely cool.
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Jul 23, 2016 19:56
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I want to see the whole conversation. That's not the whole thing, right?
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Jul 23, 2016 19:57
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Zanzibar Ham posted:I want to see the whole conversation. That's not the whole thing, right? No, that's it.
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Jul 23, 2016 19:58
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Reason posted:Why? Because if you flesh out the implications of it, it ends up indicting every person who participates in the political process. What material outcome results from that conviction? What useful bit of insight can we gain from it because it may be true but it's a tautology.
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Jul 23, 2016 19:58
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You know what I'd rather not be involved in this shitshow nm
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Jul 23, 2016 19:59
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Zanzibar Ham posted:I want to see the whole conversation. That's not the whole thing, right? I think it is. I thought there was an earlier email because of the Re: but I just searched and found Brad Marshall's original email without the Re: quote:Received: from DNCDAG1.dnc.org ([fe80::f85f:3b98:e405:6ebe]) by
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Jul 23, 2016 20:00
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SedanChair posted:If politics is dirty, non-politicians have to be dirty or they are at a permanent disadvantage. This is absolutely true, but I just don't think it justifies loving some innocent people over. There's also a difference between "He's apparently an atheist but has used his Jewish heritage for political gain, see what's up with that" and "He's a Jew that's bad.". I mean it's still cynical as gently caress so tomato tomahto, but it doesn't seem THAT bad, or at least not worth loving people over for.
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Jul 23, 2016 20:00
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UV_Catastrophe posted:Some people get emotionally attached to the candidate instead of the ideals which that candidate represents. This is a huge problem right? Being attached to the ideals Bernie represented and then voting Hillary is kind of selling out. Bernie's biggest shtick was being against big money and Hillary is big money. I mean if your ideals are "I agree with democratic incrementalism" but you liked Bernie a little bit more than you probably aren't a sellout. But if you were like gently caress big corporations and big money and get money out of politics turning around and voting Hillary is kind of hypocritical considering on her actual record she tends to side with banks and big business.
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Jul 23, 2016 20:02
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Wow, have you never had people saying dumb things in your workplace? I guess this is enough to say they were all no angels.
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Jul 23, 2016 20:02
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Personally I want to hear more about the Ecuadorian drug farm.
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Jul 23, 2016 20:03
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Reason posted:This is a huge problem right? Being attached to the ideals Bernie represented and then voting Hillary is kind of selling out. Bernie's biggest shtick was being against big money and Hillary is big money. I mean if your ideals are "I agree with democratic incrementalism" but you liked Bernie a little bit more than you probably aren't a sellout. But if you were like gently caress big corporations and big money and get money out of politics turning around and voting Hillary is kind of hypocritical considering on her actual record she tends to side with banks and big business. It would be if this was a parliamentary system. As it is, we're stuck picking the corrupt insider over the insane narcissistic ignoramus.
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Jul 23, 2016 20:03
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I would be kinda surprised if there weren't Sanders staffers coming up with stupid/terrible/offensive plans and having them squashed who continued to work at the campaign afterwords as well.
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Jul 23, 2016 20:03
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Yinlock posted:"He's an atheist but pretend to be Jewish" is not the same as "Jews are bad" To be honest I'm kind of surprised that's the nastiest they got. That's loving some maple-story children tier "mud"
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Jul 23, 2016 20:03
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Zanzibar Ham posted:Wow, have you never had people saying dumb things in your workplace? I guess this is enough to say they were all no angels. If I sent something like that to my CEO I would expect a formal reprimand at the very least, or even something more than "AMEN."
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Jul 23, 2016 20:04
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Tim Kaine seems like a nice guy. The difference in how Pence was introduced vs Kaine is pretty loving stark. Can we talk about these things for a while
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Jul 23, 2016 20:04
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