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Got a weird one for you: I've been quite into 'placing' sounds in the stereo field, sound designery stuff. I can (somewhat well) make sounds that move laterally via panning + eq and sounds that move towards and away from the listener via reverb + eq, and combine the two. What I'd like to know is are there any similar techniques for making sounds move vertically? I've looked a bit into psychoacoustics and all I can really find is that "bright" (ie high frequency) sounds sound higher and vice versa. Is there a way to make it sound like an object is 'dropping' straight down the stereo field, like panning turned on its side by 90 degrees?
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Jul 4, 2016 19:50
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| # ? May 11, 2024 08:38 |
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NonzeroCircle posted:Got a weird one for you: I've been quite into 'placing' sounds in the stereo field, sound designery stuff. I'm not sure if that's possible, outside of something trying to do things binaurally. Take the virtual barbershop for example; I haven't listened to it in a while, but I believe that during certain parts, there's actually a feeling of sounds being above and/or below you. Again, though, that's not just taking into account relative volume from the source to each of your ears, but also the time delay. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUDTlvagjJA The closest I've gotten to this was screwing around with the binaural settings in Modartt's Pianoteq, but it didn't really make me feel like anything was above or below me. Maybe I have to check the settings again.
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Jul 4, 2016 19:55
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That's the sort of thing. I don't know how possible it may or may not be, it's more something I've been curious about- doubtful I could find a musical application for it as I'm not in NIN!
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Jul 4, 2016 20:35
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I don't know what DAW you use, but I think I remember Logic having a Binaural Processing plugin that does exactly what you're looking for. I've never used it so I don't know how good it is, but I assume it's designed to do exactly what you're thinking of.
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Jul 4, 2016 21:19
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If any of it works, it's on headphones only. It can't be done for a typical stereo setup of two speakers in a room. You can use some sort of binaural panning plugin, and create an impression of something moving up and down on headphones. Doesn't work as well for a static placement, because the disembodied sound you input in typical music production is so abstract, you wouldn't know the difference between it being equalized to be brighter or duller as an artistic choice or for the purposes of vertical placement. To create the perfect illusion, you need more than what these plugins typically do and have a pretty much perfect room simulation integrated with that and then other sounds also taking place in that room to give you a frame of reference, because these all contain cues the brain uses. And again, that poo poo plain doesn't work on speakers unless an actual top and bottom speaker pair is added. It's interesting from a research and experimental point of view and the easiest way in is getting a pair of binaural mics and a styrofoam head to record stuff in actual spaces, because the way eg. reverb typically simulates a space simply won't do. But the practical applications in music are very limited.
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Jul 4, 2016 23:08
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Thanks for a detailed response, figured it was probably not feasible on just 2 speakers but never hurts to ask!
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Jul 5, 2016 10:37
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This may be a dumb question, but what's the best way to either remove or significantly quieten an instrument in a single track, leaving the rest intact? I have a live take where my guitar playing was... less than good, but the rest is good. The guitar line already isn't that loud, but I'd like to either get rid of it entirely or have it barely be audible.
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Jul 9, 2016 13:10
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Maaaaaaaaybe eq could do it but it would gently caress with the sound of anything else in that range. If its a single "mixed" track of audio such as an iPhone recording of band practice its going to be very hard to remove it. If its fairly central in the mix perhaps some phase flipping could work. Maybe its easier to replay the line over the top and mix it in if the one you want rid of isnt egregiously loud?
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Jul 9, 2016 13:16
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NonzeroCircle posted:Maaaaaaaaybe eq could do it but it would gently caress with the sound of anything else in that range. If its a single "mixed" track of audio such as an iPhone recording of band practice its going to be very hard to remove it. If its fairly central in the mix perhaps some phase flipping could work. I already tried messing with the EQ, it was unsuccesful  I may be able to get away with playing guitar over the top and masking it, I'm not sure yet as I haven't tried, I just thought there may be a better way
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Jul 9, 2016 13:23
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What do you feel is wrong with your performance? Is it notes or timing? You may be able to do something with Melodyne but thats a pricey option
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Jul 9, 2016 18:54
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NonzeroCircle posted:What do you feel is wrong with your performance? Is it notes or timing? You may be able to do something with Melodyne but thats a pricey option It was fully improvised and I was really drunk  I can probably just mask it, I just wondered if there was something else I could do to get rid of it easily. I'd like to just do it all again but the rest of the track was so "in the moment" it would never work a second time around
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Jul 9, 2016 23:19
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I have two verses with identical vocals. One verse is quiet, the second is loud. During the loud verse, the vocals are too quiet. I'm compensating for this by just turning the vocals up in the mix during the second verse. Is that the right thing to do or is there some smarter approach I should be using? Popcorn fucked around with this message at 09:33 on Jul 23, 2016 |
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Jul 23, 2016 09:24
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That's fine, as long as you're not sending the mix into the red during the louder passages. Simple level riding is something that's done quite frequently and into detail (word or syllable level) in pro mixes to get stuff not buried. Though if you're recording the vocal yourself, you can get more creative. Like recording the passage twice. Singing loudly and quietly will give your voice different timbres. So will varying the mic distance, where closer will be more intimate and suited to the quieter section. You could accentuate this by adding the slightest touch more reverb/delay to the louder section, maybe. All artistic license. With prerecorded or sampled vocals, you've got to look at if it's super noticeable that you've copy pasted the stuff and whether that's just cool or an annoyance. You can split the vocal up into words and shuffle the timings around a bit into an alternate phrasing that works equally well, giving more of an impression of a different take. If you're obsessive about it, that is. If the verse is louder because the backing track has extra elements in it, you could of course ride those levels as well, trying to make the summed level more similar, making large adjustments in vocal level unneccesary. There's certainly a good compromise there, where you push some things back a little as well as pull the vocal to the front. Anyway, it is a bit of an odd question, in that it really doesn't matter how you get there if it sounds right. If the simple thing of changing the level works, I can't imagine what would be smarter. Unless it doesn't sound right. In which case, try to describe what sounds wrong about it.
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Jul 23, 2016 10:41
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That's a very useful and considerate answer, thank you.  It's an electronic thing so the copy-pasted vocal part is very deliberate. It's supposed to sound artificial.
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Jul 23, 2016 10:47
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I bit on the 40% off Cubase upgrades (Elements>Artist) but Steinberg are still knobs for requiring me to buy a USB Licenser on top. Why isn't the soft licenser good enough? Still, I suppose its at least transferable between machines and more importantly I can render in place instead of faffing about with exporting and re-importing.
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Jul 23, 2016 18:45
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edit: wrong thread.
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Jul 24, 2016 14:33
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What are some good ways to give your track more "bounce", for want of a better word? I'm working on a hip hop beat and everything sort of sounds a bit flat, a bit constant. I can't think of any examples at the moment but I like the way the music on some tracks sort of goes in and out a little with the beat, sort of adding another layer of rhythm/groove. I apologise for this being pretty vague but I feel like people will have some ideas anyway
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Jul 24, 2016 19:32
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Paperhouse posted:What are some good ways to give your track more "bounce", for want of a better word? I'm working on a hip hop beat and everything sort of sounds a bit flat, a bit constant. I can't think of any examples at the moment but I like the way the music on some tracks sort of goes in and out a little with the beat, sort of adding another layer of rhythm/groove. I apologise for this being pretty vague but I feel like people will have some ideas anyway You could try a Talking Heads-type thing and create a bunch of different musical layers that all fit over your basic loop that you can bring in and out in different combinations over the course of the song, maybe? I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but that will give you some ways to keep it from being too samey throughout the song, and depending on how you do it you can either make it super obvious or pretty subtle.
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Jul 24, 2016 19:37
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What I read in that description is sidechaining to make a compressor pump with the rhythm, maybe?
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Jul 24, 2016 19:51
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Flipperwaldt posted:What I read in that description is sidechaining to make a compressor pump with the rhythm, maybe? Yeah, I think that is probably what I mean. It sounds hard :/ I'll look into it though
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Jul 24, 2016 20:08
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Paperhouse posted:Yeah, I think that is probably what I mean. It sounds hard :/ I'll look into it though It's not hard with modern software, just choose the track to pump from and adjust a couple of settings, but there's also volume shapers like LFOtool which serve the same function as a side chain compressor but just rhythmically decrease and increase the volume of the track instead of compressing it down (which can change the sound depending on the compressor and its settings). Track dynamics also play a huge part in bounce/groove, if everything is around the same unvarying volume level then there's nothing to bounce to, if you were tapping out the rhythm on a desk it would just be TAP TAP TAP TAP but if you make the kick quieter than the snare and the hats alternating louder/softer on alternating counts you'd start to feel a pulse and the desk rhythm would become Tap tap TAP tap Tap tap TAP tap etcetera. Do the same thing with a melody or chord sequence, have some notes emphasized on certain beats and reduced in others, nod along to how you want the groove to feel and put emphasis on the beats where your nod fell and you can easily implant solid bounce to a track.
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Jul 25, 2016 06:39
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Paperhouse posted:What are some good ways to give your track more "bounce", for want of a better word? I'm working on a hip hop beat and everything sort of sounds a bit flat, a bit constant. I can't think of any examples at the moment but I like the way the music on some tracks sort of goes in and out a little with the beat, sort of adding another layer of rhythm/groove. I apologise for this being pretty vague but I feel like people will have some ideas anyway That's a sidechain and it is really quite simple to get it working. Making it sound good takes a bit of practice, but once you get the hang of it it shouldn't be too much of a problem. A simple and effective method to get a track to bounce is to work those automations. Make the track more quiet during verses, that way choruses will snap out more once they come since they'll be louder (and thanks to the way our ears work, sound better).
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Jul 26, 2016 01:06
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Paperhouse posted:What are some good ways to give your track more "bounce", for want of a better word? I'm working on a hip hop beat and everything sort of sounds a bit flat, a bit constant. I can't think of any examples at the moment but I like the way the music on some tracks sort of goes in and out a little with the beat, sort of adding another layer of rhythm/groove. I apologise for this being pretty vague but I feel like people will have some ideas anyway Aside from doing things like using compression and transient shaping to create emphasis on rhythmic accents and movement, I would say go for variation. If it's flat and constant, create transitions and dramatic elements by weaving new bits of the arrangement in and out.
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Jul 26, 2016 21:52
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I'm mixing an ambient track and preparing it for mastering. Pretty much the whole mix hovers around -6dB but occasionally I have a loud single sub-bass note (maybe once every minute) that pushes the stereo bus to -1/0dB. It is purposely much louder than the rest of the mix so my question is, will this be OK when I hit the mastering phase or do I need to do some mixing magic at this point?
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Jul 31, 2016 10:21
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Are you mastering it? What were you planning on putting on your master buss if so? Perhaps a judicious multiband compressor would let that through without squishing the poo poo out of everything else when it hits.
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Jul 31, 2016 12:39
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NonzeroCircle posted:Perhaps a judicious multiband compressor would let that through without squishing the poo poo out of everything else when it hits. What you want of the note, is to be as loud as it was without peaking so high. This can be approximated reasonably well by keeping up the average level of it, while reducing the peak level, aka compressing it (without makeup gain)! Probably even with a multiband compressor that passes through everything else! Pretty much de-essing, but at another frequency range. After that, the level of the whole mix can be brought up as normal, without unwanted ducking.
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Jul 31, 2016 15:06
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Home studio headphone recommendations? Looking for quality but I'm partially deaf anyway so...... edit: and by home studio I mean a laptop and an interface in my office... Captain Apollo fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Jul 31, 2016 |
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Jul 31, 2016 21:31
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Not sure where the best place to put this is, so lets try Home Recording (it's definitely not that). I have a wireless mic set and the output from the receiver is a balanced 3.5mm minijack. The PA system I want to plug into is a little church disco kinda all-in-one PA and it has some phono line-ins (obviously unbalanced). While it's easy to go unbalanced-> balanced, how do I go the other way? Apparently I can buy a box but can I buy a cable? I'm not good with the solderings...
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Aug 2, 2016 16:01
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thehustler posted:I have a wireless mic set and the output from the receiver is a balanced 3.5mm minijack. thehustler posted:The PA system I want to plug into is a little church disco kinda all-in-one PA and it has some phono line-ins (obviously unbalanced). It helps if you post brand and model of gear you're talking about. But if you're going line level to line level, something made of cables and adapters should work.
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Aug 2, 2016 16:29
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Captain Apollo posted:Home studio headphone recommendations? Looking for quality but I'm partially deaf anyway so...... Really depends on your budget and what you want to use them for. I use Sennheiser HD 280 PROs for pretty much everything and love them, but I also don't really mix on headphones. Those are anywhere between $80-$100 USD depending on when/where you get them. If money was no object, I'd probably buy a pair of Sennheiser HD 800s, but those are open-backed so they wouldn't be good for recording, so I'd probably still keep a bunch of 280s around for recording.
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Aug 3, 2016 02:35
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For what it's worth I use Sennheiser HD 280 Pros as well. Have been using them for years now. They have a solid sound that's fairly neutral but more importantly they're rugged as hell. After years of abuse the only problems I've had is the headband pad thingy coming off and the cup padding is a little worn. But that's cool because Sennheiser sells replacement parts for them cheap anyway! I really need to get around buying those replacement bits. A non serious question: I like the look and features of the MOTU 1248 family (The Thunderbolt ones). Overkill for a home studio? (It absolutely is but man they look cool. Pity they cost so much)
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Aug 3, 2016 04:52
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Will the AT2020usb or NT-1 USB record guitar amps ok? I've failed at setting up a recording space (as opposed to a jamming space) multiple times and I'd rather not go with a 2i4 + sm57 budget wise yet. I want to record vocals and my 2x12.
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Aug 3, 2016 07:58
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Flipperwaldt posted:Mic level or line level? Actually balanced or are you deducing that from the use of tip-ring-sleeve only? Manual for the wireless mic says the receiver can do line or mic level output, set by DIP switches, and explicitly says balanced. It's this: http://www.revolabs.com/getattachment/7bc4ee70-75bf-4a89-9618-2ead73e1a656/HD-Single-Dual-Channel-User-and-Setup-Guide The little PA speaker I'm not sure of, but I'm just assuming it's unbalanced because those kind of things usually are. I'll double check. Edit: PA is one of these: http://avslgroup.com/en/product/178.843UK Dug out the manual and it says "AUX line input" so assuming it's the latter of what you said for that. thehustler fucked around with this message at 11:19 on Aug 3, 2016 |
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Aug 3, 2016 11:16
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thehustler posted:Manual for the wireless mic says the receiver can do line or mic level output, set by DIP switches, and explicitly says balanced. In this picture, look at number 10. It says to go from balanced trs to unbalanced rca, you just have to ignore the ring bit.  In the following picture you see that that's equivalent to using a stereo trs mini jack to rca cable, but leaving the right (red) channel unplugged.  You could use two of those cables or put the receiver in mix mode and use one cable. As long as it's all mixed down to mono at the end and the sound is only coming out of that single PA speaker, there's no difference. It doesn't look like there is a panning or balance control to worry about on the PA speaker anyway. In a stereo setup, you'd have to think about one mic coming out of the left speaker and the other one out of the right one. Or both left if only using one cable. That would be a pain in the rear end associated with using that aux input. I'm assuming you're doing this because the other mic inputs on the PA thing are already taken. In the first picture you'll see what's needed for using those at number 9. But that would probably mean more adapters anyway. On the other hand: no worries if this is expanded to a stereo setup through the aux out. Looks like using the aux in will also mean you have to set levels on the receiver end. You might also be bypassing any eq and echo options on the PA. Might not be a problem; just saying.
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Aug 3, 2016 12:23
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Thank you very much that's a huge help I'm doing this because it's the only spare mic system I have that's portable-ish and also that's our portable PA speaker for events in places without a permanent system. But yeah, I'm poo poo at soldering so I'll get my supervisor to make it
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Aug 4, 2016 20:16
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The recommendation for using a 3.5mm stereo jack to rca cable was made with the condition in mind that it wouldn't require soldering, because they are ubiquitous and cheap. And again, the portable PA speaker has mic inputs that will allow you to use the level and tone controls. If you're not plugging any other mics in there and you're having a cable made anyway, might as well use those inputs. Emphasizing that, lest your supervisor think what you're asking him to provide is odd and people on the internet crazy.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:56
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That's probably the best option. I'm pretty sure I just forgot the mic inputs were there... I'm good at plugging stuff into stuff usually but audio things are hard for me. Video is fine.
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Aug 4, 2016 22:06
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I record a lot of voiceover work, and currently use the AT2020 XLR'd to the Art Tube MPV3 and then into a Scarlett Solo. I'm considering getting a Blue Spark, but I don't know if that's a significant enough quality improvement to justify the Spark's price - which even on eBay amounts to like £100. Should I instead be looking at different audio interfaces or preamps? Any recommendations in particular for voiceover work?
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Aug 11, 2016 19:33
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SoundOnSound says that's a sidegrade, if anything. It will have a slightly different character, for sure, but who knows if that will suit you better. Otherwise it's completely in the same class. I'd maybe look at the Rode NT1, that has a reasonably flat response and an extremely low noisefloor for about £160 instead (if you've got the sort of kit to mount it already, otherwise about £240). That's an actual technical advantage that makes just about everything more convenient down the line. That said, what problem are you thinking of solving? Is there even something wrong with the AT2020? Maybe you're better served with some basic acoustic treatment or a better mic stand/desk mount, better headphones or even a can of compressed air to clean out your computer's fans or some software that makes life easier for you. A non-creaky chair? A visual metronome app to keep your pacing consistent? Not as exciting, but £100 doesn't buy you a lot of mic that's going to be a lot better than what you've got anyway. If you can try it out, by all means, though.
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Aug 11, 2016 20:28
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Kind of a random question, but using modern recording procedures, how does one obtain a more murky cavernous production quality, while still retaining a good sound? I point towards a variety of recent blackened death metal and similar releases as a point of reference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3ILtHfVUYY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0miw_zYniIw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4tOKfzJyR0 Good production these days tends to aim at really clean and clear tones, but how does one go about achieving something like these? To me it appears recordings like the ones I've linked are well recorded and produced, and done so in a deliberate manner to achieve this sound, but I'm unclear on how exactly this is achieved since everything seems so oriented towards a clean sound. I'd contrast this with say early 80-90s death metal or black metal recordings and demos which clearly sound awful because of a lack of technology and more modern sounding super clear and even sterile sounding death metal.
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Aug 12, 2016 23:31
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