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General Dog posted:It's a simple story, but they chose to build a convoluted plot. They could easily have just said "the war never ended" and nobody would have blonked, but instead we've got proxy wars and shadow governments and all sorts of poo poo that nobody ever really bothers to explain. Except the plot isnt convoluted. Good guys stop genocidal nazis in ww2 analogue. You know why that whole Republic and First Order backstory are on the backburner in TFA? Because it only matters as an impetus to call the good guys into action for the climax. It doesnt matter, the politics and poo poo are not the point. The point is Rey becomes Jedi and Finn/Poe power couple bash the fash and First Order are evil neo nazis. It doesnt need to be explained. Phi230 fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Jul 24, 2016 |
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Jul 24, 2016 15:34
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Phi230 posted:You know why that whole Republic and First Order backstory are on the backburner in TFA? Because it only matters as an impetus to call the good guys into action for the climax. The "good guys" are already in open revolt with the First Order. One of their own being kidnapped is impetus enough for them to intervene. The Republic story exists to get around the contradiction of "we know the Republic owns a significant chunk of the Galaxy but the good guys should still be scrappy underdogs like in ANH".
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Jul 24, 2016 15:50
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Phi230 posted:Except the plot isnt convoluted. Good guys stop genocidal nazis in ww2 analogue. You're right, not everything needs to be explained. But the underlying dynamics of the conflict should be easily understandable and track with what we're shown on screen. TFA doesn't succeed at this at all. We don't know what the stakes of the conflict actually are in any meaningful sense. The New Order are supposed to be a fringe group, but they have an omnipotent superweapon even more powerful than the ones the Empire had at the height of its power, shiny new ships made of advanced materials, and preside over huge formations of troops wearing Steve Jobs-infused combat armor. Meanwhile, the galaxy's dominant power is nowhere to be seen except for when it gets wiped out as an afterthought, and the good guys who are affiliated with the galaxy's dominant power come across as some sort of cash-strapped, ragtag group scrabbling just to hold on. This is all apparently explained away at length in background material, but the actual movie itself does a very poor job of justifying its imagery. It only works if you come into it pre-accepting that the movie is and should be predicated on the notion of recreating the commercially friendly dynamics of A New Hope, with little to no priority placed on logical narrative progression from Return of the Jedi.
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Jul 24, 2016 18:46
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Serf posted:how many shots a loving blaster holds Has anyone ever reloaded in Star Wars? I always thought it was infinite because lasers and you don't gotta question it.
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Jul 24, 2016 18:55
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Cnut the Great posted:You're right, not everything needs to be explained. But the underlying dynamics of the conflict should be easily understandable and track with what we're shown on screen. TFA doesn't succeed at this at all. We don't know what the stakes of the conflict actually are in any meaningful sense. What are the stakes? Uhhh the Nazis win? Those are pretty huge stakes. TFA works perfectly as a Pacific Theatre Analogue. 1. There is uneasy peace between Peaceful Good Guys (Allies) and the fascist menace 2. Pearl Harbor (Starkiller base wipes out Hossin system in surprise attack) 3. Battle of Midway (Destruction of Starkiller Base) The USA were absolutely the scrappy underdogs for like the first 12 months of WW2, barely holding on.
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Jul 24, 2016 19:00
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While I understand you have to focus on the characters (and the criticism of "too much politics!" regarding the prequels no doubt influenced things), I think there is a story in "what went wrong after the Rebels won at Endor?" How did the New Republic become just as ineffectual as the old in something like 1/1000th of the time? Who the Hell is Snoke? The original Star Wars is vague but simple- "Evil Galactic Empire" explains itself. The First Order is a little trickier- they're kinda like Neonazis but they have access to advanced and shiny military equipment. And they want to have the same dynamic as the OT so instead of the Republic fighting them it's a tiny Rebell- er, Resistance. To a certain extent it's obvious they're planning to address this in later episodes. But it means TFA doesn't stand as well on its own as Eps. IV and I do.
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Jul 24, 2016 19:01
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Phi230 posted:The USA were absolutely the scrappy underdogs for like the first 12 months of WW2, barely holding on. Not in the slightest. If anything, Pearl Harbor is the equivalent of the Death Star blowing up at the end of ANH, and everything else in WW2 is ESB.
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Jul 24, 2016 19:08
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Bash the fash (ignore that they are slave soldiers)
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Jul 24, 2016 19:12
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I'm looking for an interesting gift for my Uncle who is a crazy huge Star Wars fan, I don't know poo poo about it so I was wondering if any of you had any ideas?
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Jul 24, 2016 20:49
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FAT WORM OF ERROR posted:I'm looking for an interesting gift for my Uncle who is a crazy huge Star Wars fan, I don't know poo poo about it so I was wondering if any of you had any ideas? A signed copy of the Christmas special
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Jul 24, 2016 21:15
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FAT WORM OF ERROR posted:I'm looking for an interesting gift for my Uncle who is a crazy huge Star Wars fan, I don't know poo poo about it so I was wondering if any of you had any ideas? Condoms
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Jul 24, 2016 21:18
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FAT WORM OF ERROR posted:I'm looking for an interesting gift for my Uncle who is a crazy huge Star Wars fan, I don't know poo poo about it so I was wondering if any of you had any ideas? Young Anakin action figure. E: whoops thought you said Star Trek fan, my bad.
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Jul 24, 2016 21:32
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Get him one of those little rolling BB-8 toys everyone was so crazy about over Christmas. Hell, I still want one of those myself.
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Jul 24, 2016 21:43
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FAT WORM OF ERROR posted:I'm looking for an interesting gift for my Uncle who is a crazy huge Star Wars fan, I don't know poo poo about it so I was wondering if any of you had any ideas? https://www.amazon.com/Bandai-Scale...nium+falcon+kit You need to put it together yourself though so there's some work involved but who doesn't want this or any of the other models.
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Jul 24, 2016 22:53
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Cnut the Great posted:You're right, not everything needs to be explained. But the underlying dynamics of the conflict should be easily understandable and track with what we're shown on screen. TFA doesn't succeed at this at all. We don't know what the stakes of the conflict actually are in any meaningful sense. It's almost like Star Wars fans dont like Star Wars
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Jul 25, 2016 01:02
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UmOk posted:It's almost like Star Wars fans dont like Star Wars I believe the thought process here is "Lucas isn't involved so it doesn't count"
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Jul 25, 2016 02:54
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It can't be all that omnipotent, considering it exploded. 
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Jul 25, 2016 14:34
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UmOk posted:It's almost like Star Wars fans dont like Star Wars I like all the Star Wars movies so i don't really understand what you're getting at here. And you don't even have to like all the movies to be a Star Wars fan. Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:I believe the thought process here is "Lucas isn't involved so it doesn't count" And the only reason people criticized the Total Recall reboot was because Paul Verhoeven wasn't involved. Thank you for the contribution to the discourse, dude, you're doing a hell of job hoisting me my own petard.
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Jul 25, 2016 18:30
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Cnut the Great posted:you're doing a hell of job hoisting me my own petard. Throwing Shakspeare quotes at me? That's a deep cut dude, you think you're George Lucas or somethin'?
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Jul 25, 2016 20:03
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When is Rogue One going to show all the awesome starfighter stuff. Because it is gonna be all about starfighters right? Right?
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Jul 26, 2016 00:07
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Vitamin P posted:When is Rogue One going to show all the awesome starfighter stuff. The film might not actually feature any star war.
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Jul 26, 2016 00:08
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Troposphere Wars
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Jul 26, 2016 00:13
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Rogue One: A Beachskirmish Story
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Jul 26, 2016 01:06
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ROGUE ONE: WORST CASE Rogue One begins with an action introduction. Zoey Deschanel is under attack by der sturmtruppen. Beard white man sees value in this REBELLIOUS PERSON and 'rescues' her but she gets handcuffed cuz shes EDGY and fights back She, a random prisoner of Beard Man, Is taken to the main rebel headquarters and shown to the entire rebel leadership for no reason other than she is protagonist She is given THE MOST IMPORTANT JOB IN THE GALAXY by the clone of the actress who played Mon Mothma. Thus begins act 1 WE'RE PUTTIN A TEAM TOGETHER Beard man says. So begins recruitment montage of a bunch of archetypal A Team members. After feel good recruitment montage, we cut to Angry White Man. He is given job to stop Good Guys. He orders EVIL BLACK PEOPLE i mean MORDTRUPPEN to hunt Good Guys THUS BEGINS ACT 2 Good Guys take the leap and sneak onto the Death Star and steal the plans. MORDTRUPPEN interrupt before they escape and kill a popular team member and engage good guys On their escape from the death star which is like a 30 minute action sequence they crash land on MAUI TROPICAL RESORT THUS BEGINS ACT 3 Act 3 is a 45 minute long action sequence where 50% or higher of the A TEAM dies trying to exfiltrate the Death Star Plans. The MORDTRUPPEN all die and ANGRY white man gets fuckin choked out by Vader who appears outta fuckin nowhere Vader is in chase personally now Whike the A Team flees from Vader; Donnie Yen stops and gives a tearfuk goodbye and tries to fite vader 1v1 and gets fuckin spooked Zoey Katniss and White People Look The Same are the sole survivors whatever Beard Man dies in tearful embrace Edgy white girl is mortally wounded She delivers the Laserdisk with the Death Star plans as her last action. "get these to...eugh...PRINCESS LEIAH" and she fuckin dies C3P0 whines about seeing some girl die, and CGI princess leiah says something ominous The final shot is is a fixed rear shot of the Corvette flying high over loving TATOOINE gently caress YOU with some dark music playing in the background Literally the end of Halo Reach FCUJ YOU
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Jul 26, 2016 01:43
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Phi230 posted:Laserdisk DATA TAPES
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Jul 26, 2016 02:59
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quote:Literally the end of Halo Reach Who's the tryhard with the edgy skull helmet in this case?
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Jul 26, 2016 05:34
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ThePlague-Daemon posted:Has anyone ever reloaded in Star Wars? I always thought it was infinite because lasers and you don't gotta question it. Not in the movies, but in the old EU books at least the laser guns run on some kind of gas or something and they have to change out cartridges. It's right up there with all the other dumb things that suck the magic out of Star Wars in so many of the books.
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Jul 26, 2016 12:54
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Rosh posted:Not in the movies, but in the old EU books at least the laser guns run on some kind of gas or something and they have to change out cartridges. It's right up there with all the other dumb things that suck the magic out of Star Wars in so many of the books.  You can clearly see in A New Hope that Leia's blaster ejects a cartridge requiring 300 pages of explanations of blaster physics
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Jul 26, 2016 17:17
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It's ejecting my verisimilitude.
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Jul 26, 2016 18:21
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Barudak posted:It's ejecting my verisimilitude. Get this man some immersion, stat!
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Jul 26, 2016 18:25
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Just keep in mind that if prequel talk were banned, as some people argued for, it'd be nothing but blaster cartridge talk in here all day every day.
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Jul 26, 2016 18:26
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Eagerly awaiting jivjov's explanation of how blasters work.
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Jul 26, 2016 18:28
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dublish posted:Eagerly awaiting jivjov's explanation of how blasters work. Working from memory here, so my apologies if I get the details wrong. Basically a blaster bolt is a little packet of charged gas in a magnetic envelope. The guns themselves contain that which does the charging and packaging, ammunition clips are basically reserve tanks of Tibanna gas. The colored bolt is a side effect; excess energy. The lethal bit is nearly invisible to the naked eye. There are even some (really expensive) weapons that will fire an invisible shot, like the Xerrol Nightstinger sniper.
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Jul 26, 2016 18:56
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jivjov posted:Working from memory here, so my apologies if I get the details wrong. All that is stupid and less fun than shooting lasers at eachother
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Jul 26, 2016 19:04
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Basebf555 posted:Just keep in mind that if prequel talk were banned, as some people argued for, it'd be nothing but blaster cartridge talk in here all day every day. An acceptable alternative.
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Jul 26, 2016 19:07
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jivjov posted:Working from memory here, so my apologies if I get the details wrong. They shoot lasers and go PEW PEW imo. I just realized they do have visible magazines in them though so that's kind of disappointing.
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Jul 26, 2016 19:30
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Of course they have cartridges. They're laser guns. And of course they run on tibanna gas. Lando is an arms dealer.
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Jul 26, 2016 19:36
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is that ever mentioned in the films? As far as I'm aware Landon just mines gas for whatever reason under his own quasias trade federation analog. It's a parallel to the earlier films and I guess you could make an argue menu that it creates a theme that free enterprise is, innately, opposed to oversight regardless of the ideology
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Jul 26, 2016 20:14
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It's never mentioned. I assume it came about as a way to explain blaster magazines and the fact that they don't behave like lasers. Because it's vitality important that we invent convoluted explanations for the minutiae of the perfect holy trilogy rather that say "Who cares? It's neo-Flash Gordon, just enjoy it."
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Jul 26, 2016 20:36
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Well that's the beauty of Star Wars. On screen it's just pew pew lasers. But if you feel like engaging with stuff beneath the surface, there's a wider world of fun stuff that you can check out via the EU and whatnot.
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Jul 26, 2016 20:41
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