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Today started off really rocky and awkward but man did it turn into a slow burn that built momentum into something really stellar. The last few speakers in particular. Especially Michelle Obama. Wow. I think that speech is possibly her best. Genuinely impressed with what happened in the latter half of the convention tonight. We're already many miles ahead of the shitshow that was the RNC.
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Jul 26, 2016 05:31
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Mel Mudkiper posted:A progressive movement that thinks it should sit back and let white nationalism take over the country because maybe they can get elected in four years is an ethically bankrupt and politically worthless movement The way I see it, progressives will get hosed one way or the other because there is no way HRC is more than a one-term president, meaning 2020 will be another Republican wave allowing them to again redraw district lines in their favor. She's a loving awful candidate lucky to be running against a bloviating moron like Trump.
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Jul 26, 2016 05:32
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MrBuddyLee posted:Probably Donna Brazile? Thanks! I've been trying to find a pick of Bill with them, but I have been unsuccessful. A friend asked who they were, so I was trying to get it right.
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Jul 26, 2016 05:32
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Mel Mudkiper posted:A progressive movement that thinks it should sit back and let white nationalism take over the country because maybe they can get elected in four years is an ethically bankrupt and politically worthless movement This progressive movement isn't going to go away just because you don't like how a few acted.
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Jul 26, 2016 05:33
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Yinlock posted:I'd like you to look up a different word, "Persecution Complex" Those are two words. I am not a white guy so I never thought I was under attack. I am a brown guy saying "Im still passionate and pissed for Sanders too and some dudes with Raybans and sandals on dont represent me or the movement I believe in" So maybe you should actually read and stop just trying win.
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Jul 26, 2016 05:33
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ANy BernieBros wanna fight, they gonna get a fight
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Jul 26, 2016 05:34
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Gangsta Boogie posted:So maybe you should actually read and stop just trying win. 
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Jul 26, 2016 05:34
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Bernouts on TV saying there was no Bernie representation when literally half of the speakers said they #FeelTheBern
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Jul 26, 2016 05:37
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Gangsta Boogie posted:Its hilarious when you are saying this, when you are personally attacking me. And condescending me. For having a discussion, speaking objectively when I addressed someone (except for the corny personal attacks or tired "salt" references). Oh Christ...
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Jul 26, 2016 05:41
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Josh Lyman posted:Bernouts on TV saying there was no Bernie representation when literally half of the speakers said they #FeelTheBern Bernie is a real cool guy and most of his fan club are really cool people too. Bernouts however...they're the ones we ditch when they show up at parties.
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Jul 26, 2016 05:41
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Zerilan posted:Ok. The Glumslinger posted:OK, and how would Bernie have done better if he had won and republicans still had congress? Like, would be push it through via magic or something? Or would Bernie being the presidential nominee somehow given the Democrats back the House? I'm not even talking about the specifics of what it means for either of the two of them to become president. And I think its telling how quickly people are to criticize my dissent in terms that they want to use to understand it. Like I said, I was talking entirely about what I perceive to be hypocrisy, or a contradiction on what Sander's stated goal at the beginning of the primary was, and what he's now doing by endorsing Clinton. Is bringing this progressive movement into the fold of an organization which tried its best to ignore, condemn, and disenfranchise the movement a compromise but a win, or is it naive? It seems to me like it is naive, because its a pretty weak promise if you think about it. Even a person who actually believed in these ideas couldn't guarantee delivery. I don't think these compromises buy us anything. But I guess we'll have to wait and see. Is this the end of the movement, or the first win it has earned in a long time? Again, I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens to the movement after the election. If Sanders neglected this progressive movement after he became president, I would have these same concerns. But I'm not really buying what powerful people in the democratic party are telling me in the mean time. If you want to jump to conclusions and present this as me being 'unwilling to compromise', 'unrealistic', 'naive', I'm not sure what to tell you. I haven't mentioned who I'll be voting for. But if you were a Sanders supported before and you're saying these lines, and especially if you're saying this poo poo with ZEAL, hopefully you can see why I'm doubtful.
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Jul 26, 2016 05:41
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Dog Jones posted:I think what's happening here, is that the powerful people who rule our society have successfully found another way to misdirect progressives. I think when Clinton wins the election, the democrats won't even try to do any of the poo poo they are saying they will do as 'concessions' to the progressives that the Sanders campaign was working with. Or perhaps they'll try, but it will be a theatrical production. The Republicans will almost certainly maintain control of congress, and that will be a convenient excuse to not actually do anything positive for middle / lower class people. Meanwhile, the people who rule our society will continue to transfer complete control over the wealth of our country into a small group of technocrats and billionaires, we will continue to make pointless war, and we will continue to ravage the environment. That's the balance of probability, sure. Not at all a bad forecast of the next 4 to 8 years. To be clear, I'm not trying to convince you that Hillary is sincerely going to hew left, or that the Democratic party is going to become a meaningfully progressive one, or that governance in this country is going to change, in some major way, overnight. It's not. poo poo is still gonna suck tomorrow, and poo poo is still gonna suck November 9th. I'm just trying to convince you that, despite this setback, progress has been made--and that we are seeing, at this particular moment in American politics, an incredible opportunity to make even more, and push politics in a direction that has the potential to change things for the better. But, again, that's a slog still to come. That's gonna be slow and lovely and hard and disappointing. You're pretty much right. All of those trends you've identified are going to continue. They would continue even if Bernie got the nomination and was elected. That's just what America is right now, and nothing we did in November was going to make that different anyways. Actually, the only thing I'd meaningfully disagree with you on is this: quote:I don't think he carved out a space in american politics for left leaning policy discussion. Because right now you and I are talking about Bernie Sanders, avowed socialist, and his speech at the DNC, the nominating convention of one of our country's two main parties.
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Jul 26, 2016 05:42
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Jimbot posted:Well, the mainstream media, during one of his town hall QAs, asked how he different was from Castro. So he can just embrace that and just have the opposition execution. El Presidente takes no gruff from dissidents. I just hope he can manage housing better than I did in Tropico. loving shanty towns. Well you handle them by building cheap as gently caress apartments and then those who don't move fast enough from the shantys are eliminated. Its all told in the miracle of Tropico by Milton Friedman. Speaking of I am considering making a Tropico 4 democracy LP.
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Jul 26, 2016 05:48
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I liked Warren's speech, I wish that she not Bernie ran for president as the "progressive" candidate I think she could have beaten Clinton in the primaries and been a stronger force for the movement. I am greatful for Bernie's campaign too long have the democrats moved right in an attempt to appear "moderate" and the center keeps shifting right and the Republicans keep moving the goalposts further into some weird libertarian evangelical hellhole. Now as mentioned its clear there are at least millions of voting Americans with some interest in Socialist policies whereas before this election that word was verboten.Crowsbeak posted:Well you handle them by building cheap as gently caress apartments and then those who don't move fast enough from the shantys are eliminated. Its all told in the miracle of Tropico by Milton Friedman. Speaking of I am considering making a Tropico 4 democracy LP. Please do I really liked the early Tropico games, wasn't as huge of a fan of 3 and never got 4 or 5 which just seemed like small changes/reskins of 3.
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Jul 26, 2016 05:49
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What is it about internet politics that makes people type like a nutjob ponce trying to fabricate a Shakespeare quote? But, verily, it is I who demand that you read the dictionary for "facile argument." Hardly have I ever seen such a cad as thou, putrescent plebeian! I swear half the people here think their posts in this thread will be part of their memoirs one day...
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Jul 26, 2016 05:49
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Axeface posted:Because right now you and I are talking about Bernie Sanders, avowed socialist, and his speech at the DNC, the nominating convention of one of our country's two main parties. Right, and actually I'm with you on pretty much everything you're saying. I posted my thoughts in this thread because I see a bunch of people condemning people for feeling disappointment, and shaming the people who are skeptical of the Hillary endorsements. I'm sure many of them are democrats and Clinton supporters who think this is all well and good. But there's also people who are Sanders supporters here, and see it as correct to vote for Hillary, because of reasons of strategy, or whatever. And even some of them seem willing to gleefully crush dissenting opinions, and to try and humiliate people for being skeptical of the Hillary endorsement. And now these are the conversations we're having, about strategic compromise and voting for Clinton, because of this decision to endorse her. I think this sort of thing will poison peoples minds and misdirect their energy and spoil the momentum of Sanders' movement. And I think this national conversation that Sanders created by compromising, which is really a conversation powerful people in back rooms are having (and down to the last minute democratic party main streamers fought hard to keep Sanders people out), I'm not sure if that will buy us anything.
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Jul 26, 2016 05:54
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Gangsta Boogie posted:Its hilarious when you are saying this, when you are personally attacking me. And condescending me. For having a discussion, speaking objectively when I addressed someone (except for the corny personal attacks or tired "salt" references. Yeah I think we're done. You are completely incapable of empathizing with someone elses view point to see how obnoxious you are being. I've argued with enough people like that to know there is little point in continuing. You can declare victory if you'd like (that's what they usually do). Sadly you'll probably continue to derail the thread with your obsession with decorum. Try to remember some of us actually want to talk about the convention.
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Jul 26, 2016 05:55
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Gio posted:The way I see it, progressives will get hosed one way or the other because there is no way HRC is more than a one-term president, meaning 2020 will be another Republican wave allowing them to again redraw district lines in their favor. She's a loving awful candidate lucky to be running against a bloviating moron like Trump. Hmm, yes. Progressives are equally hosed if we elect a centrist democrat who doesn't change much or if we elect a literal white nationalist whose campaign cornerstone is the destruction of the lives of a few million people.
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Jul 26, 2016 06:07
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Alright, I went to go see Star Trek Beyond after Michelle's speech, what did I miss, if someone would be so kind as to give me a rundown.
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Jul 26, 2016 06:10
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gfsincere posted:Alright, I went to go see Star Trek Beyond after Michelle's speech, what did I miss, if someone would be so kind as to give me a rundown.
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Jul 26, 2016 06:12
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joepinetree posted:Hmm, yes. Progressives are equally hosed if we elect a centrist democrat who doesn't change much or if we elect a literal white nationalist whose campaign cornerstone is the destruction of the lives of a few million people. perhaps the truth is in the middle, and we can destroy the lives of maybe 1 less million people instead there, everything solved.
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Jul 26, 2016 06:12
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https://twitter.com/Mr_Ghostly/status/757798363823603712
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Jul 26, 2016 06:12
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White people cant help but be awful sometimes.
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Jul 26, 2016 06:13
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https://twitter.com/devincf/status/757798485152239616 Uh wow I didn't interpret Trumps tweet that way but it does kind of make sense. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/757760973419712512
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Jul 26, 2016 06:13
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joepinetree posted:Hmm, yes. Progressives are equally hosed if we elect a centrist democrat who doesn't change much or if we elect a literal white nationalist whose campaign cornerstone is the destruction of the lives of a few million people. Not to mention it's a literal fact that presidents try really loving hard to enact all the policies they campaign for president on. Hand waving that fact away because you feel differently is literally no different than when republicans hand wave away climate change because they feel differently.
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Jul 26, 2016 06:17
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Gio posted:The way I see it, progressives will get hosed one way or the other because there is no way HRC is more than a one-term president, meaning 2020 will be another Republican wave allowing them to again redraw district lines in their favor. She's a loving awful candidate lucky to be running against a bloviating moron like Trump. The way I see it, you're a loving idiot.
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Jul 26, 2016 06:20
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gfsincere posted:White people cant help but be awful sometimes. That said, Warren and Bernie made quality speeches and most of the Bernie supporters should be ready to support Hillary against Trump, if not necessarily happily. Bernie's was especially memorable, the DNC handed out a bunch of pro-Bernie signs to everyone for them to wave and he got a standing ovation coming in that lasted like five minutes. He looked ready to cry. This is how Bernie closed his speech: Bernie Sanders posted:It is no secret that Hillary Clinton and I disagree on a number of issues. That’s what this campaign has been about. That’s what democracy is about. But I am happy to tell you that at the Democratic Platform Committee there was a significant coming together between the two campaigns and we produced, by far, the most progressive platform in the history of the Democratic Party. Among many other strong provisions, the Democratic Party now calls for breaking up the major financial institutions on Wall Street and the passage of a 21st Century Glass-Steagall Act. It also calls for strong opposition to job-killing free trade agreements like the Trans-Pacific Partnership. It was drat good and quite effective. Warren's speech was objectively pretty good but it didn't personally interest or grab me. I don't really like her as a public speaker, and I dunno why.  There was another guy whose name escapes me, a black gentleman from Minnesota, who was also pretty drat good.
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Jul 26, 2016 06:21
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gfsincere posted:White people cant help but be awful sometimes. Not to mention ugly. Goddamn...
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Jul 26, 2016 06:27
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Lightning Knight posted:That said, Warren and Bernie made quality speeches and most of the Bernie supporters should be ready to support Hillary against Trump, if not necessarily happily. Bernie's was especially memorable, the DNC handed out a bunch of pro-Bernie signs to everyone for them to wave and he got a standing ovation coming in that lasted like five minutes. He looked ready to cry. Well that's dope. And I heard of course Trump broke protocol and decided to hold a white power rally during the convention, because narcissism doesn't allow anyone else to have any attention.
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Jul 26, 2016 06:28
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Lightning Knight posted:Warren's speech was objectively pretty good but it didn't personally interest or grab me. I don't really like her as a public speaker, and I dunno why. Warren isn't a great public speaker, although she has gotten much better from when she ran for senate. I sill love her though and being a great public speaker isn't why you should or shouldn't like a politician.
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Jul 26, 2016 06:31
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Her infomercial joke was killer, though
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Jul 26, 2016 06:32
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A Winner is Jew posted:Warren isn't a great public speaker, although she has gotten much better from when she ran for senate. I mean I agree, I was just disclaiming that I thought it was a good speech, but I didn't enjoy it.
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Jul 26, 2016 06:32
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Who is the lady to the right sitting by Bill? I don't think its Donna Brazile...this woman seems much older and the hair/clothes doesn't seem quite right to me. This is the best screenshot I could find.
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Jul 26, 2016 06:33
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Tomorrow will focus on a roll call vote to officially nominate Hillary. In addendum, the focus will be on the mothers of the movement, that include moms of blacks killed by police; including but not limited to Mike Brown's, Trayvon Martin's, Sandra Bland's, and Eric Garner's. Oh, and Slick Willy is speaking too 
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Jul 26, 2016 06:33
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HighwireAct posted:Her infomercial joke was killer, though  Especially since my wifes first job after college was an editor for a b2b magazine about the infomercial business.
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Jul 26, 2016 06:35
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based on the attacks on warren by the bernouts, i'm going to assume that they're trump plants because that poo poo is trump as gently caress I think the GOP is probably kicking themselves that in the time they spent last week pretending to pay lip service to american and minority interests they didn't include Citizens United like the DNC did tonight. i mean obviously they DONT want to reverse Citizens United but they'd pretend to recognize that people want it to change to try and sucker some people
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Jul 26, 2016 06:53
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Man for all the poo poo that went down today, tonight was about as good as it gets.
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Jul 26, 2016 07:03
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straight up brolic posted:Man for all the poo poo that went down today, tonight was about as good as it gets. Don't count Bill's speech out yet. Remember, he's speaking not just as a former president and great orator, but as the person who has been Hillary's partner, friend and lover for more than 40 years.
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Jul 26, 2016 07:51
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Jack2142 posted:I liked Warren's speech, I wish that she not Bernie ran for president as the "progressive" candidate I think she could have beaten Clinton in the primaries and been a stronger force for the movement. I am greatful for Bernie's campaign too long have the democrats moved right in an attempt to appear "moderate" and the center keeps shifting right and the Republicans keep moving the goalposts further into some weird libertarian evangelical hellhole. Now as mentioned its clear there are at least millions of voting Americans with some interest in Socialist policies whereas before this election that word was verboten. Warren's place right now is in the Senate. Her efforts would have been wasted running against Hillary, and she'd be an absolute nobody as veep. She's right where she belongs right now.
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Jul 26, 2016 07:55
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Fulchrum posted:So the big takeawy from the first day of both conventions was Michelle Obama's speech.
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Jul 26, 2016 08:00
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