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Kairo posted:I'm think gonna lower the flak drone chance across the board. It won't solve the sniper rounds but it might help keep your repair drones alive. Well the main issue with the flak is that your fighters get wiped really quickly. Rarely does it come into play with cap ship fights to what I have seen. Also, it seems like omiflak guns are much less useful against missiles than flak drones as flak drones can move out to engage at a safe distance while the ship-mounts will barely engage it in time, if they even do. Overall, it feels like the enemy can have a max of 4 railguns or 2 heavy torpedo capitals before your capitals start getting instakilled. So either 2x2RG/1 Torp Capitals or 1x2 RG / 2 Torp capitals seem to be possible o beat as you have to slam on them quickly. Out of the two the 4x RG one is much tougher and probably doesn't need a torpedo capital in backup, so perhaps if there must be a 3 capital, just a fighter launcher maybe? Two Heavy Torpedo capitals in a wave are fine provided that you have a reasonable chance of still having your capitals at that point or if they don't have shields and thus you can snipe the bridge/launcher with a LR. So basically where you have those waves of I think, 6 or 8?, destroyers with rail-guns is a big gently caress you to the player as it's not even possible to do bomb runs against a bridge like you can against capitals to greatly reduce enemy firepower. You can only do so incrementally and all the while under deadly fire. Also, what does the carapace armor's -95% AOE protect against? Because at that level of reduction it would probably let you laugh off most flak in a fighter. Does it help against direct rail-gun/artillery hits? I'm wondering if it is worth putting on my capitals to keep them alive a little longer, but the combination of Rep and Flak drones on destroyers is too good to beat. Suggestion: Please let us have an option to see the actual stats of weapons in the selection menu instead of just relative bars. An enemy unit viewer like exists in Freespace 2 would also be kinda cool!
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Jul 25, 2016 16:43
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95% will protect you from flak and torpedo explosion AOE. Basically anything that doesn't directly do damage. The biggest problem I'm reading here is the lack of counterplay with the sniper capitals and some of the torpedo ships (but those should be way more counterable in theory). I can see that and will think about other ways to make it easier. I do absolutely want the mode to grind you down, I just need to make sure it's feasible to hit that 20 wave achievement with simple tweaks. Xerxes17 posted:An enemy unit viewer like exists in Freespace 2 would also be kinda cool! Would be neat, but most of my major work moving forward is going to be bug/perf fixes, upgrading Unity (oh God), and starting to figure out console ports. I'm really trying to have 1.0 out by early September, then focus 90% of my time on porting/bugs/cert and the rest on small balance tweaks.
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Jul 25, 2016 17:18
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Do you have plans to expand the main campaign by any chance?
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Jul 25, 2016 17:26
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HardDisk posted:Do you have plans to expand the main campaign by any chance? Any extra work I do on the campaign is going to be using whatever time I have left between all the stuff I mentioned earlier. Nothing ever goes to plan, so I don't know how much time that will actually end up being.
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Jul 25, 2016 17:34
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how well does this play with KB/M? my all time favorite KB/M system in a fighter game was Tachyon: The Fringe. You had both the cursor as virtual joystick target and, at the press of a button, high accuracy FPS-style mouse control mode.
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Jul 25, 2016 18:22
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Helter Skelter posted:On a side note to actual gameplay, Twitch had the name of the game still stuck as Enemy Starfighter in their database. I threw them an email a little while back and as of a couple days ago it's been updated. Not a huge difference to people who've been following the game, but it might help with discovery a bit I guess? Also "House of the Dying Sun" is a bad-arse, cool, evocative name. Well worth the correction.
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Jul 25, 2016 19:15
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cl_gibcount 9999 posted:how well does this play with KB/M? The KB+M controls here are excellent. Kairo posted:95% will protect you from flak and torpedo explosion AOE. Basically anything that doesn't directly do damage. Good to know about flak, I might give an armor-fighter build a go with it. On capitals it's a bit of a scaling problem. One carrier with 2 railguns, not a problem. Three carriers with railguns? That's doable as you can snipe out bridges and turrets with your fighters and use your capitals to whack the hull. Three carriers with shields? Well you better like eating poo poo and dying because that's what going to happen to you. There's no way to bash down the shields from a distance in time and so you are left with fighter bomb-rushing at the bridge past an escort that will often soon kill your fighter. Torpedo carriers have a similar issue that once you get into the shielded variety you have the problem of no way of dealing with their firepower from a distance and thus must move in close to deal with them, which is extremely dangerous for a fighter on a bomb run as you're basically relying on enemy flak shooting at you to stop those torpedoes vaporizing you with premature detonations. Like, I think it is a bit of a game play hole that your sole long-range anti-shield option is the torpedoes on the destroyers. So if you lose them you're basically hosed in a fight with a lot of shielded capitals and if said capitals are packing rails... welp. Edit: BUG REPORT: If a carrier launches fighters, you can't use the wheel menu for "next subsystem" on that carrier as it then targets a fighter that it launched instead. Xerxes17 fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Jul 25, 2016 |
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Jul 25, 2016 22:57
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I am compiling a build for the challenge mode branch that will tone down the enemy flak, enemy escort shields, and more. The the enemy super capitals are the real problem, the easiest answer might just be to either cap them at 2 per wave or remove their shields. I could get into all sorts of RNG wrangling to make sure X don't have shields, but I would rather not get into that madness.
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Jul 26, 2016 00:00
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So, against this current ball-buster of a challenge mode setup, I got past the wave 11-12 hump and hit level 15!  Setup: Fighters Carapace Armor AP rounds Autocannon Fury Missiles Destoyers/Frigate Rep drones/Shields/omniflak with torps and artillery. Basically you have to play this one super aggressively but also very tactically in that you need to be able to smash a fighter or two quickly with little hassle to replace your dead interceptors, which the fury missiles are excellent for. They also are pretty good at opening corvette shields for your auto-cannon. You must also correctly juggle your 3 interceptors and know when to sacrifice them or not to kill something, or so that their slot is opened up for a new and rearmed fighter. Against big ships you must roll in with the purifiers really hard, and must come in at a good angle so that your two salvos hit and can thus trade a super-capital for a fighter. Also use the AC on your run in to zap a railgun or torpedo launcher on the way in to reduce the damage that your caps suffer. However if down to fighters then just knock out torpedo tubes. Playing with carapace armor pretty much lets you laugh off flak fire and makes torpedoes not much of a thread as a hard rolling turn will make them prox-detonate on you and do little damage. So with that in mind, I think reducing flak damage globally would be a good idea so that players can be much more aggressive without the upgrade. Edit: I died historic in the Fury Asteroid Field for the Immortal Emperor. 
Xerxes17 fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Jul 26, 2016 |
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Jul 26, 2016 00:36
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Busted down to third place  Actually, how does it break ties within a wave? Survival time doesn't appear to be it. Kills?
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Jul 26, 2016 01:45
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I think the person to record the score first will get priority. If not, the opposite will probably happen. I think it's purely chronological. There might be some way to ask Steam to sort the entries with a secondary field, but I am not sure at the moment. Kairo fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Jul 26, 2016 |
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Jul 26, 2016 02:22
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I like shield on capitals cause I can get under them for safety from other enemies and plink away with the shotgun.
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Jul 26, 2016 02:59
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Played a couple of hours last night, kept getting stuck with a HOTAS problem where my throttle wouldn't go to 100%, was as if there was some other input constantly applying a brake, terrible bug report I know, but that's as much as I can figure out. Regardless, I switched back to gamepad to get controls back and had lots of fun bombing capital ships. One thing I realize in retrospect is that the target selection dial should have some way of selecting the option without releasing the shoulder button used for targetting. Maybe I've missed this in the tutorials, but when I want to step through targets on a ship I have to repeatedly open targeting radial, push the analogue stick and then release it. For stepping through multiple targets wouldn't it be better to also allow the D-Pad to instantly step through the target options without having to release the target button, it'd make the game flow a lot better as you're scanning through targets to find what you want to prioritize. Also add shortcuts to all the radial menu options to the controls list so people with excess buttons can flip between targets and subsystems without even hitting the radial menu. Of course I say this fully expecting one of you to point out that I haven't played the game enough and this is already in there. In which case do your worst, I can take it.
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Jul 26, 2016 17:57
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ROCKET SCIENCE
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I've been playing with HOTAS and I actually think the game works better if you bind three buttons to boost, drift, and brake. Running the throttle analog seems to get in the way more than anything. Definitely takes a minute getting used to not moving the throttle though.
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Jul 26, 2016 18:04
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illectro posted:... You can D-PAD left and right through subsystems on the gamepad, but I'm not sure if I teach that explicitly yet. On a Rift it's slightly different but IIRC, you're using a Vive. A couple people have reported throttle weirdness but I can't reproduce it on my X52, so it'll probably stay that way for a while as I do other tasks. Edit: I was wrong -- DPAD down will cycle subsystems and DPAD L/R will cycle all targets on the battlefield. Kairo fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Jul 26, 2016 |
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Jul 26, 2016 18:06
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Kairo posted:You can D-PAD left and right through subsystems on the gamepad, but I'm not sure if I teach that explicitly yet. On a Rift it's slightly different but IIRC, you're using a Vive. So wouldn't it make more sense to then make the D-Pad all about selecting targets without entering into the radial menu at all, and then put the orders radial menu on the right shoulder button. Sure it sucks for players that are used to the current setup but it would make more sense to put the common functions in one place.
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Jul 26, 2016 18:49
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illectro posted:So wouldn't it make more sense to then make the D-Pad all about selecting targets without entering into the radial menu at all, and then put the orders radial menu on the right shoulder button. Sure it sucks for players that are used to the current setup but it would make more sense to put the common functions in one place. But RB will quick-target whatever is under your crosshair, and moving that to DPAD makes you take your thumb off the steering to do so.
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Jul 26, 2016 18:52
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Kairo posted:But RB will quick-target whatever is under your crosshair, and moving that to DPAD makes you take your thumb off the steering to do so. Your logic is undeniable, thanks for not mocking me too harshly.
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Jul 26, 2016 18:57
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illectro posted:Your logic is undeniable, thanks for not mocking me too harshly. LOL. What throttle are you using? Is it a CH or Thrustmaster?
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Jul 26, 2016 19:06
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It's the Saitek X52 throttle, I suspect I just have some wierd binding that crept in, but it can be hard to track that kind of thing down.
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Jul 26, 2016 19:28
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illectro posted:It's the Saitek X52 throttle, I suspect I just have some wierd binding that crept in, but it can be hard to track that kind of thing down. Gah. I upgraded my middleware to solve some of these throttle problems on the nutso CH/Thrustmaster sticks. It doesn't seem like it worked anyways, and it might have caused other issues. I know you guys like these things, but I absolutely hate them. I'm sure some of it is my programming too, but this is a special kind of hell. When I finish this game I'm going to take my X52, reenact the end of Office Space with a baseball bat, and forget they exist.
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Jul 26, 2016 19:51
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Kairo posted:Gah. I upgraded my middleware to solve some of these throttle problems on the nutso CH/Thrustmaster sticks. It doesn't seem like it worked anyways, and it might have caused other issues. The middleware upgrade might explain why my mappings had changed, will go through my mappings with a fine tooth comb.
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Jul 26, 2016 20:31
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holy poo poo this wave 5 might force me to re-evaluate my life decisions
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Jul 27, 2016 01:35
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Reiterpallasch posted:holy poo poo What is the composition of the wave? I haven't done a full run in today's build. It's funny, working on this mode has completely reaffirmed my decision to not let an RNG run the campaign.
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Jul 27, 2016 01:55
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Kairo posted:What is the composition of the wave? I haven't done a full run in today's build.
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Jul 27, 2016 04:03
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really fun game so far and yeah those railgun carriers are nasty managed to get up to wave 11 in today's challenge (tied with #1) using machine guns and shotguns, I think it's possible to get past that wave but would need a little luck
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Jul 28, 2016 06:04
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cl_gibcount 9999 posted:really fun game so far and yeah those railgun carriers are nasty Nice! Glad you like it. Some of the waves are definitely brutal. I panic every once in a while about the difficulty, and then like 10 people figure out a way to smash the top score. The game is part of the Steam VR Weekend Sale and is 10% off: http://store.steampowered.com/app/283160/ Or it's 25% off if you get it as part of the special VR sale bundle: http://store.steampowered.com/bundle/1097/ Everything in the bundle is +15% the normal discount, and you only pay for what you don't have.
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Jul 28, 2016 18:51
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from my own limited experience so far I can say: railguns are a bit too good, they're basically anti-everything. I think their mounts rotate too quickly, making them better than they probably should be at tracking close targets repair drones (for the player) are too good. they negate most of the attrition aspect of challenge mode and will make balancing the mode difficult without limiting these drones somehow the best suggestion I can think of is to lower the rate they repair at and also have hulls accrue irreparable damage (say 25% of each hit taken) that will build over time and eliminate the potentially infinite sustainability they currently offer
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Jul 29, 2016 00:40
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cl_gibcount 9999 posted:from my own limited experience so far I can say: I agree about the railguns. They need to rotate more slowly and it would be nice if they had to fire in a smaller arc so the ship itself had to move around a bit more. I like the repair drones for the player the way they are though. I still lose ships with them by about round 5 or 6. With drones, I wouldn't mind if you could use the betrayer module to affect enemy drones. Repair drones do damage instead, etc.
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Jul 29, 2016 02:52
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Turmoil posted:With drones, I wouldn't mind if you could use the betrayer module to affect enemy drones.
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Jul 29, 2016 03:25
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Turmoil posted:I like the repair drones for the player the way they are though. I still lose ships with them by about round 5 or 6. yeah but it would be nice to be able to play with other upgrade setups besides X+repair drone and the mode would have to be balanced around the fact that you could be in any wave with a full fleet with full health, not a favorable assumption for any setup that is not using repair drones I think another acceptable solution is to just give all of the player capital ships an innate repair drone mod, allowing the player to choose a 2 upgrade combo that doesn't use repair drones
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Jul 29, 2016 04:22
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  No doubt i'll check in later and find that someone else has managed to go to 25, but let me enjoy this in the meantime! Some more thoughts - Okay, you guys were right and I was wrong. The Longrifle is the only possible way to consistently survive engaging wave 16+ corvette deathballs and pick off destroyers at range. - Maps with an Outpost on them are so, so much easier--the outpost is a staging point you can gap to before each run, letting you make your first bombing runs from the side of the enemy ball. - This goes double if you have a bright skybox. The outpost also provides a second possible angle of attack if your first is too bright to aim from. - Nervewracking and exciting but perhaps not fun: dodging artillery shots for ten bloody minutes while farming fighter respawns for more purifier bombs to immediately suicide into a carrier. - I might argue for reducing the number of carriers per wave and beefing up on escorts again instead: maybe instead of 2/3/4/fuckoff it should be 2/2+heavier escort/3/3+heavier escort or something. - This is because once you hit a certain critical mass of artillery on the field it's basically just a question of whether you can kamizake fast enough to take enough artillery tubes out that all your capships don't instantly melt. - You need to be careful about nerfing carriers entirely, because they're basically the only thing that can stop a gap drive equipped longrifle abuser except maaaaybe massed shield corvettes. Throwing twice as many fighters at the player basically just results in the wave taking twice as long to clear, not making it actually any harder. e: juggernaut armor on a carrier is just about the most infuriating thing, because it takes the carrier out of 2x purifier range
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Jul 30, 2016 08:47
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In it, voted 5.
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Jul 30, 2016 10:35
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This has probably been one of my favorite challenge modes. It got a little hairy at one point when I was on my last ship left and was almost dead, but I was able to jump to the station and take out the 6 cargo containers and get 2 more ships. That allowed me to fight on for another few rounds at least.
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Jul 30, 2016 12:27
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Incredibly minor report: most missions on the world map list a MAIN OBEJCTIVE and BONUS: SECONDARY OBJECTIVE, but the second-to-last mission (Blockade Run at Bastille Gate) doesn't have the BONUS: before the secondary objective. A particularly dull player might conclude that the dreadnought needs to stay above 40% hull or it's a mission failure.
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Jul 31, 2016 08:27
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You say this as if failing the secondary objective isn't a mission failure
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Jul 31, 2016 08:41
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i just loaded up that mission on harbinger and literally did not touch my mouse/keyboard and the dreadnought jumped out at 94%, so maybe this isn't exactly a priority-0 bug
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Jul 31, 2016 09:16
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I know there's at least one person out there who's managed to fail that objective on easy. Never count out the ability of people to be aggressively bad at video games.
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Jul 31, 2016 09:44
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Reiterpallasch posted:i just loaded up that mission on harbinger and literally did not touch my mouse/keyboard and the dreadnought jumped out at 94%, so maybe this isn't exactly a priority-0 bug Mine somehow got its engines killed just before the warp, and got out at 36%. Kairo: I've seen friendly capitals fly across the warp gate beams and instakill themselves a few times. I'm glad they follow orders but sometimes you want to assume they can act appropriately!
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Jul 31, 2016 10:58
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Helter Skelter posted:I know there's at least one person out there who's managed to fail that objective on easy. Never count out the ability of people to be aggressively bad at video games. DSG Tries... House of the Dying Sun 
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Jul 31, 2016 13:38
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