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Gammatron 64 posted:Yeah. People often say "oh, well he saw this planet get blown up and his mother die!" but I don't really feel like that's a good excuse. Nimoy Spock would almost definitely shed a tear but still try to remain stoic. The only times Nimoy Spock would have a full-on meltdown is if he was going through Pon Farr or if something weird was screwing with his brain chemistry. I disagree with all of you... I was just saying to my friend yesterday that the complaints about Spock's characterization always annoy me, because they've made it clear in the new movies that alt-universe Spock is a lot more in touch with his human side, and I find that an interesting thing to explore with an alt-universe!
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Jul 27, 2016 17:36
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The bashing on the new movie series is making me glad I started with TNG. Even if Data was low-key LARPing Sherlock Holmes as an alien lightning bolt was possessing the crew. Somehow that makes it better, honestly.
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Jul 27, 2016 17:40
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Gammatron 64 posted:Yeah. People often say "oh, well he saw this planet get blown up and his mother die!" but I don't really feel like that's a good excuse.  Nu-Spock being more in touch with his human emotions is one of the few interesting things they've done with the character in these movies.
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Jul 27, 2016 18:01
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just watched the season 2 episode of tng where the crew/Pulaski tries to solve the olds disease. how was darwin station ok with the federation? I thought they banned screwing around with genetics, because back in the 90s khan tried to rule the world
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Jul 27, 2016 18:06
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Trying to create super dangerous perfect humans that ends up turning everyone old and killing them is ok, treating your son's learning disabilities so he can pass school and become a doctor or what ever is a serious serious violation of the law and needs to make you a 2nd class citizen. Oh also if your race has crazy super powers that gives them a massive advantage over other federation members that's ok because the federation respects different races and will find a way to get along. But if a human is slightly smarter than normal it's a huge threat because they have an advantage over other federation citizens such as the super smart and strong long lived vulcans or the telepathic betazed or the trill which have a loving memory backup disk they keep transferring from person to person allowing them to collect generations of experience. But humans slightly smarter than average? That's dangerous and you're banned from service or politics. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Jul 27, 2016 |
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Jul 27, 2016 18:22
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Baronjutter posted:Trying to create super dangerous perfect humans that ends up turning everyone old and killing them is ok, treating your son's learning disabilities so he can pass school and become a doctor or what ever is a serious serious violation of the law and needs to make you a 2nd class citizen. You just need to file the correct forms.
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Jul 27, 2016 18:30
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I really expected more people to object to the exquisite superstructure habtat porn as "too advanced" or "not matching the aesthetic" and am pleasantly suprised that's not the case.
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Jul 27, 2016 18:32
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What would that philosophy be be the way? The idea that it's ok for some people to have massive biological advantages over others so long as it's "natural" for their race, but trying to do it on purpose is playing god and horrible. Why can Vulcans have super strength but humans can't? Why can tons of races of minor to major psychic powers but humans can't? And if all this technology does exist and is fairly easy to do why isn't every race that doesn't have the federation's hang-ups on engineering not turning them into super people. Do you really think the romulans would scoff at turning their race or at least their elite into genetic supermen?
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Jul 27, 2016 18:36
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Otisburg posted:I really expected more people to object to the exquisite superstructure habtat porn as "too advanced" or "not matching the aesthetic" and am pleasantly suprised that's not the case. Like the drydock from TMP or Spacedock from STIII, Yorktown was precisely the kind of visual spectacle I want from a Star Trek movie, the type of thing they'd have given us in the series if they'd had the budget or the effects technology to pull it off.
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Jul 27, 2016 18:42
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Otisburg posted:I really expected more people to object to the exquisite superstructure habtat porn as "too advanced" or "not matching the aesthetic" and am pleasantly suprised that's not the case. I just saw it as non-Terran technology. The federation is big. One thing they've done well in the movie is made aliens more omnipresent, if still an obvious minority in starfleet for so many reasons. The giant bubble seems like overengineered nonsense, but it might be really simple to make in a world with essentially free energy and replicators etc, plus it does the very Trek thing of optimistic awesome future really well.
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Jul 27, 2016 18:43
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Spock laughing was a great moment. 
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Jul 27, 2016 18:45
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Otisburg posted:I really expected more people to object to the exquisite superstructure habtat porn as "too advanced" or "not matching the aesthetic" and am pleasantly suprised that's not the case. I'm not a huge fan of the film but Yorktown is exactly the kind of thing I've always wanted to see in Trek. Both from an aspirational future angle and simply a special effect. CGI can still wow with some interesting design behind it.
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Jul 27, 2016 18:50
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The_Doctor posted:Spock laughing was a great moment. It would have been better if he had more restraint at other times.
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Jul 27, 2016 18:52
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One knock on the movie is it still doesn't have a sense of scale in space. The proximity of the Yorktown to the big bad was too coincidental and I felt it was a bit of a cheat that Sulu's family just happened to be living on it. I mean, they are 3 years in to a 5 year mission, but it still kinda feels like they are running around the local neighborhood. Oh yeah, we just happen to be building our new flagship here as well. bull3964 fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Jul 27, 2016 |
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Jul 27, 2016 18:53
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bull3964 posted:One knock on the movie is it still doesn't have a sense of scale in space. The proximity of the Yorktown to the big bad was too coincidental and I felt it was a bit of a cheat that Sulu's family just happened to be living on it. I mean, they are 3 years in to a 5 year mission, but it still kinda feels like they are running around the local neighborhood. I thought that Sulu's hubby and Demora flew out to Yorktown to meet him. I'm almost positive Sulu said something like "glad you could make it" or something like that.
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Jul 27, 2016 18:57
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Drone posted:I thought that Sulu's hubby and Demora flew out to Yorktown to meet him. I'm almost positive Sulu said something like "glad you could make it" or something like that. It's possible I might have missed that, but the other points still stand.
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Jul 27, 2016 18:58
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bull3964 posted:One knock on the movie is it still doesn't have a sense of scale in space. The proximity of the Yorktown to the big bad was too coincidental and I felt it was a bit of a cheat that Sulu's family just happened to be living on it. I mean, they are 3 years in to a 5 year mission, but it still kinda feels like they are running around the local neighborhood. When has star trek ever properly conveyed the scale of space though? When you have FTL drives space necesarily gets a lot smaller. I guess I do agree that the alien planet was supposed to be somewhere they had never been before, but because of its proximity to Yorktown, you didn't really get that sense. It's not just that Sulu's family just so happens to be living on it, its an important location where lots of important things happen. If they had shown a bit more during the traversing the magic nebula scene, showing how a lot of ships get lost in there, making the journey more perilous, we could have gotten a better sense that the alien planet was past the frontier and not just a hop skip away. But imo this is a failing that all treks are guilty of . Subyng fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Jul 27, 2016 |
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Jul 27, 2016 19:01
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Of course everyone is also very lucky to have crash landed in the same general area on a planet. A lot of the crew died in the initial attack presumably, How many people were jammed into the NX near the end there? Doesn't the Enterprise seat like over a thousand?
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Jul 27, 2016 19:05
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One little thing that bugs me is how ships will crash into the planet they are orbiting or lose speed when they lose power. That's not how that works!!!
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Jul 27, 2016 19:15
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Subyng posted:One little thing that bugs me is how ships will crash into the planet they are orbiting or lose speed when they lose power. That's not how that works!!! What happens to a plane when it loses power? Spaceships are just planes in space.
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Jul 27, 2016 19:20
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They seemed to want to portray Yorktown as both like DS9, 'on the very edge of the final frontier' and also as home from home where Starfleet had big offices and a shipyard and where thousands of people lived. I'm not saying it can't be both, but Yorktown felt very settled and safe if they wanted the former.
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Jul 27, 2016 19:20
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remusclaw posted:Of course everyone is also very lucky to have crash landed in the same general area on a planet.
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Jul 27, 2016 19:29
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Baronjutter posted:What happens to a plane when it loses power? Spaceships are just planes in space. What? No. That's not how physics works. That being said, that the Enterprise fell to the planet is also a really dumb complaint, considering Trek has never, ever gotten orbital mechanics correctly.
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Jul 27, 2016 19:32
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Drone posted:What? No. That's not how physics works. Do you need the concept of humor explained to you by Joe Piscapo, Mr. Data?
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Jul 27, 2016 19:46
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WampaLord posted:Do you need the concept of humor explained to you by Joe Piscapo, Mr. Data? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZpTojhnKqM&t=111s
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Jul 27, 2016 19:49
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Subyng posted:When has star trek ever properly conveyed the scale of space though? When you have FTL drives space necesarily gets a lot smaller. I guess I do agree that the alien planet was supposed to be somewhere they had never been before, but because of its proximity to Yorktown, you didn't really get that sense. Well, an argument about past deficiencies doesn't mean we shouldn't ask for better. That said, I do think they at least tried before. The end of ST:VI had some sense that they were racing to some far flung outpost. ST:III even managed make it feel like they were traveling for a bit to get back to Genesis. I think it's about taking a breather in the action. The characters are primed for their task, but are forced to wait. That's one of the best places for the character development to come through. There are a few things i think they could have done. A private conversation between the 'survivor' and Kirk could have helped to setup his suspicion of her and show it's taking time to get to the nebula. Scotty spending some time bonding with Jaylah about her 'home' after they escaped the planet could have shown some downtime while laying the groundwork for the academy stuff at the end. Just minor interstitial scenes that wouldn't have to be long, but I think would have strengthened the movie and gave it a grander scale.
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Jul 27, 2016 19:50
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MikeJF posted:I was in IMAX 3D with a fancy new laser projector and it was astonishing. What's that
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Jul 27, 2016 19:53
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Baronjutter posted:What would that philosophy be be the way? The idea that it's ok for some people to have massive biological advantages over others so long as it's "natural" for their race, but trying to do it on purpose is playing god and horrible. If there's one thing you learn about the star trek galaxy from watching the tv shows, it's that the Milky Way is littered with the ruins of dead civilizations. The best explanation for 'why doesn't starfleet do this' is that they found the results of loving it up in an episode-of-the-week and decided against it.
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Jul 27, 2016 19:57
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Arglebargle III posted:What's that Blast Prossessing Farfegnugen Retsin using Monster Cables (it's probably cool I dunno)
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Jul 27, 2016 19:58
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Drone posted:Trek has never, ever gotten orbital mechanics correctly. And thank gently caress for that. Personally I just press the 'Standard Orbit' button and let the computer do it.
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Jul 27, 2016 20:28
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Drone posted:What? No. That's not how physics works. Its not a serious complaint against the movie, just like how Baronjutter's response was also not a serious answer. Star trek is not hard sci fi obviously. Subyng fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Jul 27, 2016 |
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Jul 27, 2016 20:32
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Hyperriker posted:And thank gently caress for that. Personally I just press the 'Standard Orbit' button and let the computer do it. Kind of a strange response. It's not as if sci fi portraying orbital mechanics requires the audience to start doing calculations in their heads. You simply present it to the audience as is. "The ship has no power, we're stuck in orbit Captain" is enough for the audience, for example. Again, it's not a criticism against the movie because Trek is not hard sci fi, but I think presenting some of the realities of space travel would make for some interesting stories, precisely because the way things work in space is not what we are used to, and presents different challenges for our heroes to solve. If you're going to have a setting that takes place in space, why not take full advantage of the uniqueness of that setting? Subyng fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jul 27, 2016 |
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Jul 27, 2016 20:36
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Science fiction writers often don't know anything about science.
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Jul 27, 2016 20:46
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Subyng posted:Kind of a strange response. It's not as if sci fi portraying orbital mechanics requires the audience to start doing calculations in their heads. You simply present it to the audience as is. "The ship has no power, we're stuck in orbit Captain" is enough for the audience, for example. "We're stuck in orbit" is a boring, dry crisis with no immediacy. Yeah it is bad, but it doesn't inject the same sort of sudden tension that "oh poo poo the ship broke and now we are going to crash and explode" does. It could potentially be interesting, but over the timescale of a single tv episode or even a two hour movie it doesn't really convince. It's the same kind of crisis as being stuck on a desert island, but what you want for a good tv episode is for that kind of conflict to be in the background while the main danger is that you're stuck on a desert island with a tribe of cannibals. Or a giant gorilla or smoke monster or vengeful ancient god alien or whatever.
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Jul 27, 2016 20:52
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were they even in orbit?
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Jul 27, 2016 20:53
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Maybe they could split the difference and have the ship get messed up when operating within the atmosphere rather than having to fall from orbit?Tunicate posted:were they even in orbit? Exactly.
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Jul 27, 2016 20:54
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"Captain, that last attack has left us in an unstable orbit. Given the speed that the Enterprise is going, I have calculated that we will impact the surface in X minutes" where X is whatever is most dramatic. There, problem solved.
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Jul 27, 2016 20:56
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This is coming from the series that brought us "A black hole just opened up in orbit around the earth, but everything is fine since we used momentum to escape from it."
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Jul 27, 2016 20:57
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Tunicate posted:were they even in orbit? If we wanna get super pedantic about it, as long as they were influenced more by the gravity of the planet than by its sun, yes, they were in orbit  No, I don't think they were. WampaLord posted:"Captain, that last attack has left us in an unstable orbit. Given the speed that the Enterprise is going, I have calculated that we will impact the surface in X minutes" where X is whatever is most dramatic. This also destroys any tension caused by that entire scene, ruins the pacing of the entire event, and shatters the illusion that everyone has of the drama that is unfolding. Congrats, everyone in the theater has been put to sleep.
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Jul 27, 2016 21:01
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Drone posted:This also destroys any tension caused by that entire scene, ruins the pacing of the entire event, and shatters the illusion that everyone has of the drama that is unfolding. Congrats, everyone in the theater has been put to sleep. Not if you make X something like 2 or 3 minutes. Just enough time to abandon ship and then it crashes. I wasn't suggesting it take an hour, I was trying to think of a way to appease the "That's not how orbiting works!" crowd.
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Jul 27, 2016 21:06
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