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Drone posted:
Nothing in these movies is very tense. Nothing in modern blockbuster film making is ever very tense. The action quota means something crazy will always be happening or about to happen and nothing ever feels very real. I never feel any sense of danger when it comes to the name characters because they get through everything without breaking a sweat and are ready to go five minutes later when the next action sequence commences. Not every film needs to be all build like the Shining but there needs to be a build for the action to have any meaning beyond pointless spectacle.
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Jul 27, 2016 21:07
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Maybe ships in Star Trek are always trying to orbit over the same spot, but don't want to go all the way out to geostationary orbit, so they just hang out, blasting their impulse engines all the time, to stay aloft.
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Jul 27, 2016 21:26
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bull3964 posted:Well, an argument about past deficiencies doesn't mean we shouldn't ask for better. This goes for Star Trek's perceived progressiveness as well. Yes, when you scrutinise the track record, it isn't really as great as all that, but that doesn't change popular perception of what Star Trek is all about, or lessen the importance of progressiveness in popular scifi, so Star Trek absolutely should be as progressive as humanly possible, because all eyes are on it and it's in a position to make a difference.
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Jul 27, 2016 21:33
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Just caught Andrew Robinson on an episode of CHiPs as a prank-loving motorcycle cop with a super cheesy 70s porn stache.
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Jul 27, 2016 22:29
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Baronjutter posted:What would that philosophy be be the way? The idea that it's ok for some people to have massive biological advantages over others so long as it's "natural" for their race, but trying to do it on purpose is playing god and horrible. The funniest poo poo to me was the guy who developed super powers in the original show. The SECOND he starts gathering knowledge, they immediately start plotting to kill him. He hadn't done anything yet. The fact he turned evil seems more like a lucky break than anything else; the whole time I was watching that episode I could not shake the feeling that if the same episode was made today, he'd been the good guy. Dude was basically an X-Man being hunted for his crime of being too smart/powerful.
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Jul 27, 2016 22:54
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Arglebargle III posted:What's that Anyway, the result is one of the clearest, sharpest pictures I've ever seen on a screen doing 3D. I saw TFA with that system and the clarity was just wonderful. Pretty much does away with the drop in brightness that traditional passive 3D comes with.
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Jul 27, 2016 22:56
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skasion posted:"We're stuck in orbit" is a boring, dry crisis with no immediacy. Yeah it is bad, but it doesn't inject the same sort of sudden tension that "oh poo poo the ship broke and now we are going to crash and explode" does. It could potentially be interesting, but over the timescale of a single tv episode or even a two hour movie it doesn't really convince. It's the same kind of crisis as being stuck on a desert island, but what you want for a good tv episode is for that kind of conflict to be in the background while the main danger is that you're stuck on a desert island with a tribe of cannibals. Or a giant gorilla or smoke monster or vengeful ancient god alien or whatever. Yes, which is why I did not suggest transplanting the crisis of "the ship is crashing" with "ship stuck in orbit", but "trapped in space" is definitely a Space Thing that could be used to create an interesting conflict. Saying "X would be boring" is just a lack of creativity. "Stuck on a bus" is boring, "stuck on a bus because you can go under 40mph or it explodes" is an entire movie. The ship could be stuck in orbit while Kralls troops rampage through the ship looking for the artifact. Kirk realizes the only way to stop them is to crash the ship. It has no power, so they have to fight their way to the engine room and manually activate thrusters, or something like that. This forces Krall to evacuate empty handed. Enterprise tries to pull up out of the atmosphere at the last moment but can't, it crashes. This is more or less what happens on the actual film, but with the bonus of having avoided the "lost power = automatically crash" trope. Subyng fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Jul 27, 2016 |
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Jul 27, 2016 23:01
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Hyperriker posted:And thank gently caress for that. Personally I just press the 'Standard Orbit' button and let the computer do it. Would you like to make it a Deluxe Orbit for only $0.25 more?
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Jul 27, 2016 23:07
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Gammatron 64 posted:Like... I kind of feel like Tim Russ's Tuvok feels more like Spock to me than Quinto's. And Tuvok pulls off the "really hates you but keeps it contained" thing a lot better. That's probably because he really loathes Neelix and it works because the audience really loathes Neelix, too. Tuvok gets along okay with almost anyone not Neelix.
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Jul 27, 2016 23:10
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Subyng posted:Kind of a strange response. It's not as if sci fi portraying orbital mechanics requires the audience to start doing calculations in their heads. You simply present it to the audience as is. "The ship has no power, we're stuck in orbit Captain" is enough for the audience, for example. Have you ever watched something try to figure out Kerbal space program? The vast majority of people don't understand even basic orbital mechanics. Plus star trek has never cared about scientific orbits. If it helps your sperg just imagine that when inertial dampeners are on you retain the same inertia and velocity you had when you entered orbit so you wouldn't have a vector that has a stable orbit. Please ignore the fact that the shift from inertial dampeners on to off would turn the crew into a puddle.
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Jul 27, 2016 23:18
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Nitrousoxide posted:Have you ever watched something try to figure out Kerbal space program? For the umpteenth time, I never said it was a strike against the film for not obeying physics or that Star Trek should be expected to rigorously adhere to them because it is not and has never tried to be hard sci fi, simply that the "lost power, ship slows to a stop/crashing into the planet" trope was a pet peeve of mine. But it would be a bonus if they did, and it's not mutually exclusive to being able to tell whatever story you want to tell. Besides, the audience isn't flying the ship. They are just observing what happens. They don't need to know anything about orbital mechanics, they just need to know the consequences. Nobody explains the intricacies of orbital mechanics in The Martian (which was completely accessible to mainstream audiences despite being pretty hard scifi),they just told you the consequences: the ship is going too fast, we need to slow down, but we don't have enough fuel so we need to find an alternative means of propulsion. In fact, Star Trek is filled with poo poo that the audience won't understand because it's literally space magic, which is why characters either verbally explain how it works, or its shown visually. Does anybody need to understand warp field mechanics to watch Star Trek? No, you just know that it makes the ship go really, really fast. edit: re inertial dampers, only if they are accelerating  but that would actually be another opportunity to create an interesting scene and have it be unique, simply exploiting the setting of the film. Intertial dampers are failing, seatbelts deploy except for one guy, who goes flying into a bulkhead. A nice reminder that inertia is a thing while also having a crew member get killed by something that isn't an explosion becasuse sci fi is really the only setting where you can have a person get turned into goo because they were accelerating at 100 G's or something. Subyng fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Jul 27, 2016 |
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Jul 27, 2016 23:30
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Subyng posted:Yes, which is why I did not suggest transplanting the crisis of "the ship is crashing" with "ship stuck in orbit", but "trapped in space" is definitely a Space Thing that could be used to create an interesting conflict. Saying "X would be boring" is just a lack of creativity. "Stuck on a bus" is boring, "stuck on a bus because you can go under 40mph or it explodes" is an entire movie. This is basically exactly what I just said: being stuck in orbit makes a good background problem for a threat to be set against, but it isn't a good immediate threat in itself because the threat it poses is distant and impersonal. Look at The Naked Time and tell me if it would be as effectual if instead of spiraling down towards the planet as a result of Lt Irish's drunken shenanigans, they were just stuck in orbit around it for an indefinite amount of time.
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Jul 27, 2016 23:37
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For all that I'd be happy if they would just figure out "inertial dampers" vs. "dampeners".
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Jul 27, 2016 23:43
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skasion posted:This is basically exactly what I just said: being stuck in orbit makes a good background problem for a threat to be set against, but it isn't a good immediate threat in itself because the threat it poses is distant and impersonal. Look at The Naked Time and tell me if it would be as effectual if instead of spiraling down towards the planet as a result of Lt Irish's drunken shenanigans, they were just stuck in orbit around it for an indefinite amount of time. Yeah, I'm just saying that it's not an problem from a storytelling standpoint because you wouldn't transplant the situation of crashing with the situation of being stuck in orbit without making some other changes to the story to introduce a greater sense of urgency. In this case, we need the ship to crash because being stranded is a core part of the story, but the how's and why's of it can change.
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Jul 27, 2016 23:44
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Baronjutter posted:What would that philosophy be be the way? The idea that it's ok for some people to have massive biological advantages over others so long as it's "natural" for their race, but trying to do it on purpose is playing god and horrible. I don't think it's a Federation rule per se, I think it's more a human one. Humans are deeply guilty about what happened during the Eugenics Wars and outlawed it among themselves. Vulcans or Tellarites or whoever could probably give a poo poo if humans did some genetic editing. Falken posted:Yes, I was thinking the same thing, but I actually kind of like Tuvok anyway. Mr. Tuvok is actually one of my favorite Vulcans in the franchise.
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Jul 27, 2016 23:55
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Drink-Mix Man posted:This is coming from the series that brought us "A black hole just opened up in orbit around the earth, but everything is fine since we used momentum to escape from it." I don't remember a black hole opening near the Earth in any Star Tracks.
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Jul 28, 2016 00:07
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I feel like a scene missing from the movie was Spock and McCoy discovering that the bad guys on Altima were bioengineered worker drones controlled by swarm intelligence, maybe with a direct comparison to bees. Set up the swarm disruption later and more clearly explain Krall's army of followers. Also they could've called the Evil Smoke the nanoswarm, but maybe they just wanted to leave it as Evil Smoke instead of bogging things down. (Actually, if they'd actually depicted it as a swarm of tiny but just visible machines working in concert, that would've worked really well, fitted the tech, and made the threat more visceral by calling back the visual of the Enterprise being ripped apart) MikeJF fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 00:14
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Star Trek is in a weird position because it's typically thought of as harder sci fi than Star Wars, but it's all the more fake because it regularly goes into detail about it's fake science.
WickedHate fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 00:20
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Big Mean Jerk posted:
Whatever, dude. Nu-Spock literally feels like an entirely different character to me. I feel like his characterization is way, way off. I seriously feel like Tuvok feels more like Spock to me than JJ Spock. Nu-Spock is more like a T'Pol.
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Jul 28, 2016 00:23
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McNally posted:I don't remember a black hole opening near the Earth in any Star Tracks. The red matter detonation in Trek 09 happens some indeterminate distance from, but presumably close to, Earth since they were just fighting Nero there.
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Jul 28, 2016 00:27
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McNally posted:I don't remember a black hole opening near the Earth in any Star Tracks. The climax of ST '09 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaXzku3aSho
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Jul 28, 2016 00:27
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WickedHate posted:Star Trek is in a weird position because it's typically thought of as harder sci fi than Star Wars, but it's all the more fake because it regularly goes into detail about it's fake science. Star Trek is like "soft hard sci fi" because it often is about science. Star Wars is space fantasy full of wizard knights and where science exists only tangentially to anything.
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Jul 28, 2016 00:30
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FilthyImp posted:IMAX has these fancy 4k 3D projector systems that use laser diodes to create the light source (or possibly also to break it into RGB, don't exactly remember). Hornby
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Jul 28, 2016 00:48
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Drink-Mix Man posted:The climax of ST '09 The warped away and it's not clear how far away the Jellyfish is when it drops out of warp. Edit: Jake Sisko suuuuuuuuuuuuucks. Rhyno fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 00:58
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Rhyno posted:The warped away and it's not clear how far away the Jellyfish is when it drops out of warp. Yeah. Plus, it's presumably a pretty small black hole. Which wouldn't actually have any effect even if it was relatively close to Earth. It'd just act like an extra planet. But black. And hole-ish. Small black holes evaporate quickly anyway.
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Jul 28, 2016 01:18
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CPColin posted:Maybe ships in Star Trek are always trying to orbit over the same spot, but don't want to go all the way out to geostationary orbit, so they just hang out, blasting their impulse engines all the time, to stay aloft. I had the exact same idea! And it totally fits with all those TNG-era visuals of the ship hanging out far closer to a planet than geostationary but not zipping along like the Space Shuttle/ISS.
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Jul 28, 2016 01:41
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MikeJF posted:Yeah. Plus, it's presumably a pretty small black hole. Which wouldn't actually have any effect even if it was relatively close to Earth. It'd just act like an extra planet. But black. And hole-ish. An "extra planet" would gently caress up the orbits of all the other planets pretty badly.
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Jul 28, 2016 01:54
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McSpanky posted:I had the exact same idea! And it totally fits with all those TNG-era visuals of the ship hanging out far closer to a planet than geostationary but not zipping along like the Space Shuttle/ISS. They should be facing retrograde and radial out then which we see like never. But whatever. They probably have impulse engines all over the ship. Or as a great man once said, "It's just a show, I should really just relax" Nitrousoxide fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 02:08
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Drink-Mix Man posted:The climax of ST '09 I wonder how they do the "chekov speaking in a really strong Russian accent over the PA" scene in that
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Jul 28, 2016 02:39
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McSpanky posted:I had the exact same idea! And it totally fits with all those TNG-era visuals of the ship hanging out far closer to a planet than geostationary but not zipping along like the Space Shuttle/ISS. Strangely, TOS's depiction was the most realistic.
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Jul 28, 2016 02:41
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Besides, why would anyone assume that while maneuvering to fight/retreat from an alien
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Jul 28, 2016 02:41
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Cat Hatter posted:Besides, why would anyone assume that while maneuvering to fight/retreat from an alien So that you don't end up on a collision course with the planet when the power goes offline, duh.
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Jul 28, 2016 02:46
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Given that the Enterprise was thrusting wildly at full impulse with her mass distribution totally messed up when she fell out of orbit, I don't think there's really reason to complain in this case anyway.
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Jul 28, 2016 02:47
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Blazing Ownager posted:The funniest poo poo to me was the guy who developed super powers in the original show. On the other hand, https://i.imgur.com/Px2ZOhs.mp4
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Jul 28, 2016 03:55
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MikeJF posted:Yeah. Plus, it's presumably a pretty small black hole. Which wouldn't actually have any effect even if it was relatively close to Earth. It'd just act like an extra planet. But black. And hole-ish. Well, the thing about black holes is... they're black. And the thing about space is...
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Jul 28, 2016 04:31
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Fister Roboto posted:An "extra planet" would gently caress up the orbits of all the other planets pretty badly. Not really. Over the course of a few thousand years, maybe.
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Jul 28, 2016 04:36
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Gammatron 64 posted:Whatever, dude. Nu-Spock literally feels like an entirely different character to me. I feel like his characterization is way, way off. I think it's because Nimoy had a gravitas about him that Qunto lacks. Nimoy looked older and more serious
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Jul 28, 2016 05:17
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They definitely went a new direction with nuSpock and that's good, especially compared to the alternative, doing a dialed-up impression of the characters that most of the other actors are stuck with.
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Jul 28, 2016 05:21
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:They definitely went a new direction with nuSpock and that's good, especially compared to the alternative, doing a dialed-up impression of the characters that most of the other actors are stuck with. Well here's the thing though. Let's just assume that you're right and new is better etc etc. Why does McCoy react like he's seeing a sasquatch when he sees Spock laugh in Beyond? Hey, a super emotional guy had yet another emotional outburst, whatever. Urban played it much more like he was seeing Nimoy's Spock crack up-- like he was seeing something out of character. So is Quinto loving up his characterization or is Urban? Before you answer, keep in mind that Urban is completely flawless in these movies.
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Jul 28, 2016 05:41
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Quinto's performance is not strong enough to make me not think of him as the brain eating guy from Heroes. Urban's performance is so good that I can't even remember what his actual voice sounds like.
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Jul 28, 2016 05:44
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