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whoa I saw these on twitter today and I must say, this has to be the most fair and balanced and substantive debates I've seen during the election cycle. I think it's because this is from a non-profit news organization so they aren't just trying to spam hysteria for ratings. I'm not sure how to feel about this election, but I think these debates are showing a very fair and balanced view of both sides of the argument. Jill Stein vs. Ben Jealous: Should Progressives Reject Hillary Clinton & Vote Green? http://www.democracynow.org/2016/7/26/jill_stein_or_hillary_clinton_green Who Should Bernie Voters Support Now? Robert Reich vs. Chris Hedges on Tackling the Neoliberal Order http://www.democracynow.org/2016/7/26/who_should_bernie_voters_support_now
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Jul 28, 2016 03:39
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The av/post combo made me laugh, a++ would skim again. Progressives should vote for Hillary and regroup while accepting minor victories such as shifting the Overton window a little more to the left thanks to Bernie instead of directly supporting or implicitly condoning open fascism you fucks
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Jul 28, 2016 04:38
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Please Vote For Jeb!!
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Jul 28, 2016 05:01
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Right-wing authoritarian populists coming to power has generally resulted in the left being crushed. In some countries that had nationalist takeovers decades ago, the left has still not recovered. In countries where they've been kept out of power, it's because of a united opposition that understands the threat. Now here is a Cacodemon. 
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Jul 28, 2016 05:03
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MaxxBot posted:Please Vote
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Jul 28, 2016 05:59
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Volunteer to help progressives running for local offices
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Jul 28, 2016 06:08
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See normally i'm a pragmatic type of person, but this year has been very inspirational for me and has led to me question a lot of things. The arguments presented by the "don't vote for Hillary" people in these debates are not simply full of passion, but they seem to make sense. This is making me very anxious.
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Jul 28, 2016 06:09
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If the choice is between a continuation of the Obama administration by electing his secretary of state president, and a neofascist, I'll take the former. No question. You could say I'm with Bernie Sanders on this one. BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 06:19 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 06:11
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Wikkheiser posted:Now here is a Cacodemon. hey cacodemon
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Jul 28, 2016 06:30
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Keep Autism Wired posted:See normally i'm a pragmatic type of person, but this year has been very inspirational for me and has led to me question a lot of things. The arguments presented by the "don't vote for Hillary" people in these debates are not simply full of passion, but they seem to make sense. Hillary Clinton remains a garbage person and bad candidate, but Donald Trump is shaping up to be Literal Hitler and this dumb broken system only gives you a choice of two viable candidates for President. If you live in a swing state I would recommend you vote Hillary, if you're in a secure state for one side or the other vote for which ever third party floats your boat. Your vote is your own though, do whatever you want, these are only recommendations. With Hillary you get questionable integrity and duplicity alongside support for forever war, small minded goals and getting too cozy with banks, but she also seems fairly dedicated to lots of other socially progressive programs. Assuming she accomplishes anything at all in the face of the GOP she'll likely come through on a few solid small wins for progressivism. Its not ideal, but its not like we're not going to have wars and growing inequality under Trump. Vote Hillary, shes the least bad candidate with a chance of winning. Unless you dont want to, then vote for whoever you want because its your vote!
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Jul 28, 2016 06:51
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Progressives should move to safe Democrat states where they can be free of the dumb moral quandaries brought on by the binary FPTP system, write in whoever makes them feel warm inside, and get involved in local politics and activism to work towards a better socialist future
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Jul 28, 2016 07:16
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build workers' power independent of electoral politics and break out of the mindset that sees voting as the only way to change this hell planet
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Jul 28, 2016 07:20
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Set yourself on fire as a political protest. prophets of rage might use you as their new album cover
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Jul 28, 2016 07:20
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Honestly though hearing from radical left friends (who do this stuff pretty much full-time) they're worried about a Trump presidency because of how strategically unprepared the left is to resist things like mass deportations.
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Jul 28, 2016 07:22
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I have so many progressive friends who are like "nope not voting for Hillary" and it's always for the flimsiest, shittiest reasons. I will be voting for Clinton because the alternative is probably World War 3. And also, of the two viable presidential candidates she's the more progressive one. Seems like a pretty obvious choice.
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Jul 28, 2016 07:46
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Keep Autism Wired posted:See normally i'm a pragmatic type of person, but this year has been very inspirational for me and has led to me question a lot of things. The arguments presented by the "don't vote for Hillary" people in these debates are not simply full of passion, but they seem to make sense. Feel free to start posting these arguments and I'll tell you why they're actually poo poo
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Jul 28, 2016 07:48
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QuarkJets posted:Feel free to start posting these arguments and I'll tell you why they're actually poo poo today one of my 'progressive' friends (white college-educated straight male, Bernie supporter) posted about how he's voting for Donald Trump so that the capitalist US can hit 'rock bottom' which will usher in a new era of leftist dominance when Trump fucks up badly and the US electorate realizes what they've done he was rightfully jumped on for being an idiot accelerationist by real live queer and poc folk usa gonna get woke by Trump I guess
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Jul 28, 2016 07:53
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Look at Hillary vs Trump as Gore vs Bush, but this time with hindsight.
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Jul 28, 2016 08:03
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"I think that I'm smoking too much pot, and I'd really like to stop, so I've decided that I'm going to start shooting tons and tons of heroin. That way I'll hit rock bottom and then I'll probably never smoke pot again and my life will be improved" -- an idiot Accelerationists are also astonishingly unaware of history, like they really just have no idea what they're asking for but one of their idiot friends said it'd be good so that's that QuarkJets has issued a correction as of 08:36 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 08:34
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accelerationists know what they're asking for, deep down, which is death
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Jul 28, 2016 08:38
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they're the guy in the backwoods who unloads the sawed off into his wife and kids first to make it easier
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Jul 28, 2016 08:39
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QuarkJets posted:Feel free to start posting these arguments and I'll tell you why they're actually poo poo CHRIS HEDGES: Well, I think we have to acknowledge two facts. We do not live in a functioning democracy, and we have to stop pretending that we do. You can’t talk about—when you eviscerate privacy, you can’t use the word "liberty." That is the relationship between a master and a slave. The fact is, this is capitalism run amok. This whole discussion should be about capitalism. Capitalism does what it’s designed to do, when it’s unfettered or unregulated—as it is—and that is to increase profit and reduce the cost of labor. And it has done that by deindustrializing the country, and the Clinton administration, you know, massively enabled this. And, you know, we’re sitting here in Philadelphia. The last convention was in Cleveland. These are Potemkin villages, where the downtowns are Disneyfied, and three and four blocks away people are living in appalling poverty. We have responded to surplus labor, as Karl Marx says, in our deindustrialized internal colonies, to quote Malcolm X, by putting poor people of color in cages all across the country. Why? It’s because surplus labor—corporate entities cannot make money off of surplus or redundant labor. But when you lock them in a cage, they make $40,000 or $50,000 a year. This is the system we live in. We live in a system where, under Section 1021 of the National Defense Authorization Act, the executive branch can put the soldiers in the streets, in clear violation of the 1878 Posse Comitatus Act, to see—carry out extraordinary rendition of American citizens who are deemed to be, quote-unquote, "terrorists," strip them of due process and hold them indefinitely in military facilities, including in our black sites. We are a country that engages in torture. We talk—Robert talks about, you know, building movements. You can’t build movements in a political system where money has replaced the vote. It’s impossible. And the Democrats, you know, their bedside manner is different from the Republicans. You know, Trump is this kind of grotesque figure. He’s like the used car salesman who rolls back the speedometer. But Hillary Clinton is like, you know, the managers of Goldman Sachs. They both engage in criminal activities that have—and Clinton’s record, like Trump, exposes this—that have preyed upon the most vulnerable within this country and are now destroying the middle class. And to somehow speak as if we are in a functioning democracy, or speak as if there are any restraints on capitalism, or speak as if the Democratic Party has not pushed forward this agenda—I mean, Obama has done this. You know, he has been as obsequious to Wall Street as the Bush administration. There’s no difference. ......... I covered the war in Yugoslavia, and I find many parallels between what’s happening in the United States and what happened with the breakdown of Yugoslavia. What is it that caused this country to disintegrate? It wasn’t ancient ethnic hatreds. It was the economic meltdown of Yugoslavia and a bankrupt liberal establishment that, after the death of Tito, until 1989 or 1990, spoke in the language of democracy, but proved ineffectual in terms of dealing with the plight of working men and women who were cast out of state factories, huge unemployment and, finally, hyperinflation. And the fact is that these neoliberal policies, which the Democratic Party is one of the engines for, have created this right-wing fascialism. You can go back—this proto-fascism. You can go back and look at the Weimar, and it—Republic—was very much the same. So it’s completely counterintuitive. Of course I find Trump a vile and disturbing and disgusting figure, but I don’t believe that voting for the Democratic establishment—and remember that this—the two insurgencies, both within the Republican Party and the—were against figures like Hillary Clinton, who spoke in that traditional feel-your-pain language of liberalism, while assiduously serving corporate power and selling out working men and women. And they see through the con, they see through the game. I don’t actually think Bernie Sanders educated the public. In fact, Bernie Sanders spoke for the first time as a political candidate about the reality the public was experiencing, because even Barack Obama, in his State of the Union address, was talking about economic recovery, and everything was wonderful, and people know that it’s not. And when you dispossess— ROBERT REICH: Well, let me—let me— CHRIS HEDGES: Let me just finish. Let me finish. When you dispossess that segment, as large as we have—half the country now lives in virtual poverty—and you continue to essentially run a government that’s been seized by a cabal, in this case, corporate, which uses all of the machinery of government for their own enrichment and their own further empowerment at the expense of the rest of the citizenry, people finally react. And that is how you get fascism. That is what history has told us. And to sit by—every time, Robert, you speak, you do exactly what Trump does, which is fear, fear, fear, fear, fear. And the fact that we are going to build some kind of—
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Jul 28, 2016 08:40
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DR. JILL STEIN: I agree. Donald Trump is a very dangerous person. He says extremely despicable, reprehensible things. But at the same time, Hillary Clinton has a track record for doing absolutely horrific things, for expanding wars, in the likes of Libya, for example. There could hardly be an example of a more catastrophic war, which has been more problematic for increasing the terrorist threats. Finger on the nuclear button? I worry very much about the air war that Hillary Clinton would like to start over Syria with this no-fly zone against a nuclear-armed power in the form of Russia. And in terms of racism, the immigrant deportations that Hillary has approved of and has supported are equally horrific. Whether it’s against black people or Muslim people or Latinos, it’s not acceptable for anyone. And, in fact, Hillary played a major role in creating the refugees, the waves of refugees, particularly coming out of Honduras, into this country, where she’s supported the deportation of women and children, and, in fact, the night raids that are going on, and, under the Obama White House, the greatest number of immigrants who have actually been deported. Further, let me say, I think it’s so important for us to have unity to stop Donald Trump. And it’s important to point out that the most powerful way to stop Donald Trump was, in fact, sabotaged by the Democratic Party and by Hillary Clinton by way of stopping Bernie Sanders’ campaign, as he himself and many others have pointed out. It’s so true historically—we know this from Nazi Germany—that it’s really important to have a unified front and a strong progressive coalition in order to stop neofascism. It’s not just Donald Trump. We are seeing this in Europe, as well, as well as in other countries, and particularly throughout the U.S. The problem is not Donald Trump alone. The problem is the policies of neoliberalism, of austerity, of the Wall Street deregulation and the NAFTA, which Hillary Clinton herself represents, has promoted. Putting another Clinton in the White House, unfortunately, is not the answer. It will only fan the flames of the right-wing extremism that Donald Trump represents. If we want to defeat Donald Trump, it’s very important that we really rally and unify, in my view, around a truly progressive campaign. Hillary Clinton represents the opposite of that. My campaign represents the continuing agenda of the Bernie Sanders campaign.
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Jul 28, 2016 08:41
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QuarkJets posted:"I think that I'm smoking too much pot, and I'd really like to stop, so I've decided that I'm going to start shooting tons and tons of heroin. That way I'll hit rock bottom and then I'll probably never smoke pot again and my life will be improved" -- an idiot the drug addiction metaphor is literally the exact argument he used like he said his friends who went through addiction, didn't get better until the hit rock bottom and started clawing their life up from there all the parts about withdrawals and permanently loving your body up and going through pure living hell were left out though, much like the irreprebable harm caused to minorities and democracy was left out of his vision of a post-Trump socialist future for my part i said accelerationism is loving stupid on the face book
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Jul 28, 2016 08:47
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Zas posted:accelerationists know what they're asking for, deep down, which is death accelerationists have never heard of Kansas
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Jul 28, 2016 08:47
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my bony fealty posted:the drug addiction metaphor is literally the exact argument he used Point out that relapse is a real thing Like it's not just a matter of hitting rock bottom once and then everything is peachy; poo poo is real loving hard from then on and your life and body are irreparably damaged. That's assuming rock bottom doesn't wind up being just death
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Jul 28, 2016 08:52
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Keep Autism Wired posted:DR. JILL STEIN: I agree. Donald Trump is a very dangerous person. He says extremely despicable, reprehensible things. But at the same time, Hillary Clinton has a track record for doing absolutely horrific things, for expanding wars, in the likes of Libya, for example. There could hardly be an example of a more catastrophic war, which has been more problematic for increasing the terrorist threats. Finger on the nuclear button? I worry very much about the air war that Hillary Clinton would like to start over Syria with this no-fly zone against a nuclear-armed power in the form of Russia. Glad to see that Jill Stein is telling people not to vote for Jill Stein
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Jul 28, 2016 08:55
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S.T.C.A. posted:Progressives should vote for Hillary and regroup while accepting minor victories such as shifting the Overton window a little more to the left thanks to Bernie instead of directly supporting or implicitly condoning open fascism you fucks  MaxxBot posted:Please Vote Nevermind, this guy has the right idea. gently caress off  , we're going high energy up in this bitch
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Jul 28, 2016 08:57
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QuarkJets posted:"I think that I'm smoking too much pot, and I'd really like to stop, so I've decided that I'm going to start shooting tons and tons of heroin. That way I'll hit rock bottom and then I'll probably never smoke pot again and my life will be improved" -- an idiot It's not the capitalist class that gets annihilated, but the left. BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 09:13 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 09:08
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quote:DR. JILL STEIN: But I would think back to the campaign of Eugene V. Debs. He never won. But what did he do? Because he was in a high-visibility position, he helped raise up the fight at the community level, got hundreds of people. And he ran over and over and over again, and built a movement, because he had— Jill Stein just compared herself to Eugene Debs, and then acted like 2016 is more oppressive for left-wing politicians than 1918. This is actually the most tone deaf and delusional thing I have ever seen.
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Jul 28, 2016 09:53
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Her gulags would be carbon neutral. That's the important thing.
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Jul 28, 2016 09:54
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The irony behind US accelerationism in 2016 is that it's only possible due to Obama's incrementalist change improving living conditions enough to allow accelerationists room to pretend accelerationism will work. Real shitholes where living standards have collapsed in recent memory don't usually vote in strongmen wannabe dictators. They already have or had them in charge and want none of that. But by all means, do ask the Russian left how voting in Putin turned out.
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Jul 28, 2016 09:55
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El Pollo Blanco posted:Jill Stein just compared herself to Eugene Debs, and then acted like 2016 is more oppressive for left-wing politicians than 1918. This is actually the most tone deaf and delusional thing I have ever seen. quote:BEN JEALOUS: Uniquely?
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Jul 28, 2016 10:00
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The entire premise of accelerationism - that progressive, pro-humanity, Left movements will necessarily evolve out of financial, ecological, or military disaster - is fallacious and can be easily brushed aside. In any case, if you live in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, Nevada, Colorado, New Hampshire, Iowa, Virginia, or North Carolina you should absolutely vote Hillary if the thing looks like it's going to be a squeaker. Outside of that, vote for whomever you want. It also helps that many of these same states (NH, PA, Florida, Ohio, NC) have lovely Republican senators and very competitive elections. If a 6-3 conservative court for a generation doesn't scare the gently caress out of you, I don't know what will.
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Jul 28, 2016 10:01
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maybe it's just the sample size of people i listen to but afaict accelerationists tend very strongly toward upper middle class straight white male in their 20s and 30s with comfortable jobs living in cities or other densely populated areas with lots of infrastructure, aka people that will be hecka fine under The Trump Regime
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Jul 28, 2016 10:02
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CraigK posted:maybe it's just the sample size of people i listen to
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Jul 28, 2016 10:05
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Wikkheiser posted:Gonna quote that part again. Chris Hedges also competing for 'most tone deaf' award here: quote:
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Jul 28, 2016 10:16
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A Winner is Jew posted:Look at Hillary vs Trump as Gore vs Bush, but this time with hindsight.
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Jul 28, 2016 11:17
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It turns out that people making minimum wage aren't excited about tearing down society under the guise that possibly things might get better in 40 years Middle-class people though be like "I don't actually know what poverty feels like, gently caress yeah let's roll those dice"
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Jul 28, 2016 11:35
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QuarkJets posted:It turns out that people making minimum wage aren't excited about tearing down society under the guise that possibly things might get better in 40 years "You know what really made the world appreciate Jews? The Holocaust"
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Jul 28, 2016 11:52
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