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I don't think the scene where Superman rescues his mom would have been quite the same if he had yelled "You think you can threaten Martha".
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Jul 28, 2016 11:03
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cvnvcnv posted:I don't understand why Superman would say, "Save mommy!" like a 4yo calling 911. Seeing Cavill act this way would be too cute for America to handle.
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Jul 28, 2016 11:54
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Renoistic posted:I don't think the scene where Superman rescues his mom would have been quite the same if he had yelled "You think you can threaten Martha". It's almost as if the context is different for that scene.
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Jul 28, 2016 12:04
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bring back old gbs posted:But how does Superman know this again? Like what is his reasoning for using his own mothers name instead of "mom"? Who talks like that? A literal alien that probably deserves a chest spear. Or a writer trying to hamfist as hard as they can. Superman: 'Save my mother' (dies) Batman: '....I have no idea who your mother is' He's using her name because he's talking about her to a third party who doesn't know her. And he's trying to get as much information to this, let's be honest, complete stranger who has him by the balls, as a desperate attempt to save his mother before he get's a spear through the chest. I'm not a huge fan of this film. But come on now.
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Jul 28, 2016 13:01
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I kind of want to see the Turkish version of BvS, it shouldn't have this problem as long as they change Martha's name into Anne. Also, this discussion makes me want to legally change my name into "Dad" to spare my son any confusion in the future.
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Jul 28, 2016 13:42
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Grendels Dad posted:Also, this discussion makes me want to legally change my name into "Dad" to spare my son any confusion in the future. Maybe change your name to BatDad? Or would that be placing too much pressure on your kid? Edit: also probably a death sentence, ignore my suggestion
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Jul 28, 2016 13:45
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Maybe change your name to BatDad? Or would that be placing too much pressure on your kid? To the best of my understanding I'm a dead dad anyway, should my son decide to become a superhero down the line. The dads never live.
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Jul 28, 2016 13:46
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Grendels Dad posted:To the best of my understanding I'm a dead dad anyway, should my son decide to become a superhero down the line. The dads never live. Make sure to own a house next to an expansive cave with plenty of huge bay windows for things to fly past.
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Jul 28, 2016 14:19
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Sir Kodiak posted:Is there anywhere else in the movie that he makes use of knowing Batman is Bruce Wayne? Because they make a point of establishing it at the party, then reminding us right at the start of the fight, so it would make sense if it was leading up to that. Going back to the gala scene, it really reads to me that Bruce knows who Clark really is. If I remember correctly, Clark doesn't hear the communications with Alfred until after he and Bruce talk so presumably that's what leads him to discover who Bruce is. But I can't read Bruce's comments and demeanor as being anything other than "I'm poo poo-talking you to your face, alien." MeatwadIsGod fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 14:27
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MeatwadIsGod posted:Going back to the gala scene, it really reads to me that Bruce knows who Clark really is. If I remember correctly, Clark doesn't hear the communications with Alfred until after he and Bruce talk so presumably that's what leads him to discover who Bruce is. Don't forget that Bruce fuckin' hates the Daily Planet because of it's pro-Superman stance, he'd poo poo-talk anyone associated with it.
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Jul 28, 2016 14:48
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Don't forget that Bruce fuckin' hates the Daily Planet because of it's pro-Superman stance, he'd poo poo-talk anyone associated with it. Yeah, I know he says that. But it's more the way he says it - the tone of his voice and how he looks Clark dead in the eye for the "freaks dressed like clowns" bit - that makes me think it's more than just dressing down a reporter.
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Jul 28, 2016 15:00
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Don't forget that Bruce fuckin' hates the Daily Planet because of it's pro-Superman stance, he'd poo poo-talk anyone associated with it. Bruce is also extremely territorial about Gotham, and the first thing Clark says is an insult. Bruce Wayne is like the public face of Gotham itself, regardless of Batman, so the defensiveness makes sense for his persona.
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Jul 28, 2016 15:01
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Bruce had no idea at the time, he poo poo-talks Clark because he's better than some Daily loving Planet reporter. This is the face of a man who sees God for the first time: https://zippy.gfycat.com/GregariousUnfortunateAsiaticmouflon.webm
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Jul 28, 2016 15:10
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Superman still has some semblance of a secret identity. AS Superman, he refers to his mother as Martha, as Clark, as "mom." Lex, knew his secret identity, so he would refer to her as "mom," Batman, who didn't know at this point, he was telling to rescue Martha Kent. I don't know why this has spawned so much Internety Internet complaints.
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Jul 28, 2016 15:19
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Darko posted:Superman still has some semblance of a secret identity. AS Superman, he refers to his mother as Martha, as Clark, as "mom." Lex, knew his secret identity, so he would refer to her as "mom," Batman, who didn't know at this point, he was telling to rescue Martha Kent. I don't know why this has spawned so much Internety Internet complaints. The confusion stems from people misinterpreting what Superman is doing in the scene. A lot of people seem to think that he's like deliriously calling out for his mother because he's about to die and he's panicking. Really though he's just trying to get the information to Bruce so that someone will be able to save Marth even if he does die.
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Jul 28, 2016 15:23
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Basebf555 posted:The confusion stems from people misinterpreting what Superman is doing in the scene. A lot of people seem to think that he's like deliriously calling out for his mother because he's about to die and he's panicking. Really though he's just trying to get the information to Bruce so that someone will be able to save Marth even if he does die. My first impression of the scene was the former. I also got the impression that Bruce knew who Clark was by this point because of how I read the gala scene, but Clark desperately trying to impart some information works if Bruce really didn't know. Since it's not explicitly shown or stated that Bruce knows, you're left wondering if Bruce would have investigated in those intervening 18 months or if he was too consumed to bother. The movie is really cavalier about secret identities, moreso than Dark Knight Rises was. They're not all that important to the story so it doesn't matter much either way.
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Jul 28, 2016 15:41
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CityMidnightJunky posted:Superman: 'Save my mother' (dies) I mean, just saying "Martha" doesn't give Bats much either. The Ultimate edition improves basically every other area, but the Bats v Supes scene itself still feels clunky and dumb to me. Clark says something like "Bruce, you don't understand. There's no time" then shoves Bats 60 feet. He basically makes no effort to explain things; why would he not say "Luthor has my mom as a hostage, he's pitting us against each other so he can do some other hosed up poo poo while we're busy"? It felt too much like a sitcom or romcom where an easily resolved misunderstanding goes on and on to manufacture conflict and move the plot artificially.
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Jul 28, 2016 15:54
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Terrible Horse posted:I mean, just saying "Martha" doesn't give Bats much either. The Ultimate edition improves basically every other area, but the Bats v Supes scene itself still feels clunky and dumb to me. Clark says something like "Bruce, you don't understand. There's no time" then shoves Bats 60 feet. He basically makes no effort to explain things; why would he not say "Luthor has my mom as a hostage, he's pitting us against each other so he can do some other hosed up poo poo while we're busy"? It felt too much like a sitcom or romcom where an easily resolved misunderstanding goes on and on to manufacture conflict and move the plot artificially. Iirc, Supes does start to say something about Lex when Bats interrupts him with one of his traps.
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Jul 28, 2016 16:03
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Terrible Horse posted:I mean, just saying "Martha" doesn't give Bats much either. The Ultimate edition improves basically every other area, but the Bats v Supes scene itself still feels clunky and dumb to me. Clark says something like "Bruce, you don't understand. There's no time" then shoves Bats 60 feet. He basically makes no effort to explain things; why would he not say "Luthor has my mom as a hostage, he's pitting us against each other so he can do some other hosed up poo poo while we're busy"? It felt too much like a sitcom or romcom where an easily resolved misunderstanding goes on and on to manufacture conflict and move the plot artificially. This bugged me a bit after watching the movie again recently, too. He clearly tries to get through to Batman, but saying "you don't understand" and then pushing Batman right after just instigates things further. It's a nice way to humanize Clark since it's the superhero equivalent of trying to tell someone something important while they go LALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU. He's understandably frustrated after dealing with the sonic device and the turrets, but he made the wrong move. Granted, I don't think Batman would have listened even if Superman got that information quickly anyway. He clearly had his mind made up.
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Jul 28, 2016 16:03
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They both have their minds made up, that's the point. Superman isn't going to say "Lex has my mother, so we need to band together to stop him", he's already decided that Batman won't listen, and he can't risk Martha's life trying to talk him down. The "you don't understand", is more of like an apology for doing what he thinks he has to do to save Martha. Both sides think the other is a lost cause, no point in negotiating. Its only when he thinks he's beaten, and he won't actually be capable of saving Martha, that he seriously tries to tell Batman about it.
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Jul 28, 2016 16:20
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Terrible Horse posted:I mean, just saying "Martha" doesn't give Bats much either. The Ultimate edition improves basically every other area, but the Bats v Supes scene itself still feels clunky and dumb to me. Clark says something like "Bruce, you don't understand. There's no time" then shoves Bats 60 feet. He basically makes no effort to explain things; why would he not say "Luthor has my mom as a hostage, he's pitting us against each other so he can do some other hosed up poo poo while we're busy"? It felt too much like a sitcom or romcom where an easily resolved misunderstanding goes on and on to manufacture conflict and move the plot artificially. When Clark visits Lois the moment before he flies to confront Bruce, he genuinely has no idea what he's going to do. "Lois. I have to go to Gotham to convince him to help me." "Who?" "Or he has to die." "Clark..." "No one stays good in this world." He arrives and begins to speak, is interrupted by Batman's lines of offense/defense, and that uncertainty takes over and he attempts to toss Batman around until he submits, or worse if he refuses to yield at all, which firmly guarantees Bruce won't listen as it's the same bully tactic Superman took when he ripped the Batmobile doors off and proclaimed the Bat is dead. Truth is, Bruce may not have listened or heard a word of it, but Clark insisted on advancing from the very start. If he had stood still, not threatened Bruce by his physical advance, he could have spoken freely and expressed his truths. They both were wrong and that is why the violence began instantly.
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Jul 28, 2016 16:21
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seravid posted:Bruce had no idea at the time, he poo poo-talks Clark because he's better than some Daily loving Planet reporter. This is the face of a man who sees God for the first time: That look on his face is so perfect. OH FUCKIN gently caress gently caress poo poo
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Jul 28, 2016 16:36
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Jose Oquendo posted:That look on his face is so perfect. OH FUCKIN gently caress gently caress poo poo Goddamn it, what was that cool line I was going to say if this happened? Do you bruise? What's red and blue and bruised all over? gently caress, I should have written it down OH poo poo GAME ON DO YOU BLEEEED? No that wasn't it, gently caress I'll have to run with that, god drat gently caress it pull it together Bruce you're The Batman WELL YOU WILLLLL Yeahhhhh nice recovery. Nailed it. Fukken batnailed it like a batboss.
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Jul 28, 2016 16:43
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When I watched the Ultimate edition I did notice that Superman might be trying to say "Kent" but Batman's boot on his throat is kinda messing up his plea. It's like "You're letting them kill Martha kch...kch....kugh" I mean it's by no means definitive but it would make sense if he tried to appeal to Batman's good nature by saying "while you're threatening me there's a group of people killing this random lady and you're letting it happen." I mean this is one of those "welcome to EARF" or "Beam me up Scotty" moments where people just remember "MARTHA!" and hugs when in fact it's Pretty Much Not That. Edit: Superman is not trying to kill Batman at any point in the fight before the Kryptonite. He's just pissed off. Remember that this version of Superman is kinda like Wolverine: he's invulnerable but still feels pain. Batman sonic blasts and peppers him with bullets and it makes him mad. In the Ultimate Edition you also know he's been tuned up by seeing all the misery Batman inflicts and primed to fight with "you know what does stop him? A fist!" Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 16:57
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Jose Oquendo posted:That look on his face is so perfect. OH FUCKIN gently caress gently caress poo poo Yeah, but put a  
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Jul 28, 2016 16:59
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Goddamn it, what was that cool line I was going to say if this happened? Do you bruise? What's red and blue and bruised all over? gently caress, I should have written it down OH poo poo GAME ON It's funny this line got so much press when it's like an impotent George Costanza comeback in the movie, followed by Batman's Drive of Shame back to the Batcave. Also I love that Batsmirk. Affleck is so good.
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Jul 28, 2016 17:06
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300 is Batfleck's favorite movie, but for all the wrong reasons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NV9DSykTbo
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Jul 28, 2016 17:08
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:When I watched the Ultimate edition I did notice that Superman might be trying to say "Kent" but Batman's boot on his throat is kinda messing up his plea. It's like "You're letting them kill Martha kch...kch....kugh" I mean it's by no means definitive but it would make sense if he tried to appeal to Batman's good nature by saying "while you're threatening me there's a group of people killing this random lady and you're letting it happen." That's what I took from the scene. Clark is trying to say "Martha Kent" but his neck is getting stomped. Also from a neutral perspective it might have been more coherent, but we're seeing it through Bruce's eyes and once he's triggered everything else becomes white noise.
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Jul 28, 2016 17:08
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MeatwadIsGod posted:
Batman grinning sadistically when he had Superman on the ropes was a great touch.
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Jul 28, 2016 17:18
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Goddamn it, what was that cool line I was going to say if this happened? Do you bruise? What's red and blue and bruised all over? gently caress, I should have written it down OH poo poo GAME ON This sounds like Lego Movie's Batman and it's fantastic.
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Jul 28, 2016 17:57
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I think "You're not brave, men are brave" might be my favorite line in the movie.
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Jul 28, 2016 18:11
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Basebf555 posted:I think "You're not brave, men are brave" might be my favorite line in the movie. Yeah, that was exceptional, a perfect encapsulation of everything that was happening from his taking every blow to Superman's "Oh, gently caress me" face at the blocked punch.
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Jul 28, 2016 18:15
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Basebf555 posted:I think "You're not brave, men are brave" might be my favorite line in the movie. That line, and "A man like that, words don't stop him...do you know what stops him? A fist." are good poo poo.
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Jul 28, 2016 18:16
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I also loved "You were never a god, you were never even a man." Affleck just oozed contempt and it was great.
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Jul 28, 2016 18:17
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I think the whole "they were hunters" bit is my favorite from Affleck. Or maybe "...just a feeling" after Wonder Woman asks why the need to fight. He has this distant but slightly tortured look on his face. Perfect for conveying the crazy poo poo he saw while not being able to express it. I can't believe I ever doubted that casting.
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Jul 28, 2016 18:20
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Affeck was pretty much my ideal Batman and the fact he got scenery emulsifying lines to back up his horror monster vibe was the icing on the cake.
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Jul 28, 2016 18:21
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Watching his fight near the end where he saves Martha... jesus, he hits HARD. Those hits were brutal and so many of them died.
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Jul 28, 2016 18:26
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I can't believe nobody thought to just use a voice modulator for Batman before, it's perfect.
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Jul 28, 2016 18:27
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RBA Starblade posted:I can't believe nobody thought to just use a voice modulator for Batman before, it's perfect. I loved the ghosting effect it had after his mask got wrecked during the Superman fight.
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Jul 28, 2016 18:30
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RBA Starblade posted:I can't believe nobody thought to just use a voice modulator for Batman before, it's perfect. I know, right? It seems ridiculous in retrospect that Bale et al would try to do it with just their voice. "Breathe it in.....that's fear" in the growling techno-demon voice actually makes you believe he's a threat to Superman.
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Jul 28, 2016 18:31
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