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LogicalFallacy
Nov 16, 2015

Wrecking hell's shit since 1993


quote:

If you moved too quickly, Denton has probably been turned inside-out. In which case, reload and try again.
Sounds like a great game to me.

Honestly, I love this kind of poo poo. I'm terrible at finding/taking advantage of it, but I love reading/watching someone chronicle the fantastic ways to break a game over their knees.

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Shayu
Feb 9, 2014
Five dollars for five words.
I didn't know this all about Dues Ex, maybe I judged it prematurely...

Nokiaman
Mar 2, 2013
deus ex is very good game

Samuel Clemens
Oct 4, 2013

I think we should call the Avengers.

Deus Ex is inarguably great, but it's no System Shock 2.

Curdy Lemonstan
Jan 25, 2012

by zen death robot

Samuel Clemens posted:

Deus Ex is inarguably great, but it's no System Shock 2.

I think the exact opposite. Ss2 is fantastic, but it sure is one techno dungeon crawler with no open spaces.

Copper Vein
Mar 14, 2007

...and we liked it that way.

Curdy Lemonstan posted:

I think the exact opposite. Ss2 is fantastic, but it sure is one techno dungeon crawler with no open spaces.

I feel that I can trace my enjoyment of Doom 3 back to my love of snooping around in the closets of System Shock 2.

I tried out the 5 minute (1.5gb) sample of the System Shock remake and it was pitch perfect. I heard they caved to pissbabies and re-released a version with texture filtering forced on. When the remake gets released in 2072 they better leave me an option for them dirty, dirty textures.

Commander Keenan
Dec 5, 2012

Not Boba Fett

Shayu posted:

I didn't know this all about Dues Ex, maybe I judged it prematurely...

Deus Ex is a showcase example of a game that "clicks" with players. You could play 70% of the game before "getting" it. (The early example that people get excited about is the mission at LaGuardia Airport.)

I've played through the game 30+ times and still find new things. It's just mindblowing how much thought was put into it.

It's kind of exhausting hearing all the praise the game has received over the years, but it truly deserves the accolade.

Al Cu Ad Solte
Nov 30, 2005
Searching for
a righteous cause
Man sometimes I feel like the only person that never got swayed by System Shock 2. I love the original but 2 just doesn't do it for me. I love Eric Brosius' sound design, I love exploring the ship, and Shodan is a PERFECT villain, but the moment to moment gameplay is just a slog for me. The RPG mechanics feel like gibberish. I can carry this grenade launcher in my inventory but I'm not strong enough to wield it? Instead of trying to make the cyberspace and other minigames better (not that I think they were all that bad in the first place) they stripped them out and replaced them with the most boring hacking minigame ever.

And then the mission design. You gotta go make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, but first you need to go get the bread. The cabinet is locked, and the key is upstairs. There's a note upstairs saying that someone borrowed the key then went down into the basement, but the basement's flooded and there's an electrical current charging the water. You gotta turn off the current, but to do that you need bolt cutters which are in the toolshed in the backyard. Unfortunately, Old Man Doomguy is getting a little senile in his old age and mined the backyard, so you need a mine detector. The mine detector is at the Army Surplus Store but to get there you need a car. Fortunately, your neighbor will let you borrow the car, but first you need a loving LICENSE. System Shock 2 just goes on and on like this and it almost never feels like I'm making any kind of progress.

:negative:

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal
I liked SS2 well enough until the ending cutscene which was horns.aiff in 90s CGI form.

"...nah."

heard u like girls
Mar 25, 2013

That almost sounds like a Resident Evil game

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!

haveblue posted:

I liked SS2 well enough until the ending cutscene which was horns.aiff in 90s CGI form.

"...nah."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YLMk1E41kE&t=81s

I loving love it.

ChickenHeart
Nov 28, 2007

Take me at your own risk.

Kiss From a Hog
UNATCO hurt my weenie

Samuel Clemens
Oct 4, 2013

I think we should call the Avengers.

The ending to SS2 is the perfect culmination to everything that transpired throughout the game. After spending your entire journey being ordered around and mocked by SHODAN at every available opporunity, you finally manage to track her down, and when she tries to offer you a final, desperate bargain, you just calmly tell her to gently caress off. It's incredibly cathartic, and I wouldn't change it for the world.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!

ChickenHeart posted:

UNATCO hurt my weenie

Here's a picture

Copper Vein
Mar 14, 2007

...and we liked it that way.
The best/worst thing about SS2 is all the early zombies that are shooting you with shotguns that are magically jammed when you try and loot them off of the dead zombie, when it is very unlikely that your gun-unjamming skill is high enough yet.

Any person that didn't get instantly erect when encountering the functional, fully stocked chemical storage rooms, is a person that I can't have a meaningful Shock discussion with. They just don't understand.

"Hold up, I need to backtrack two floors because I forgot the iodine, because I want to shoot this cyber-bitch better." Awesome.

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?

Al Cu Ad Solte posted:

Man sometimes I feel like the only person that never got swayed by System Shock 2. I love the original but 2 just doesn't do it for me. I love Eric Brosius' sound design, I love exploring the ship, and Shodan is a PERFECT villain, but the moment to moment gameplay is just a slog for me. The RPG mechanics feel like gibberish. I can carry this grenade launcher in my inventory but I'm not strong enough to wield it? Instead of trying to make the cyberspace and other minigames better (not that I think they were all that bad in the first place) they stripped them out and replaced them with the most boring hacking minigame ever.

And then the mission design. You gotta go make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, but first you need to go get the bread. The cabinet is locked, and the key is upstairs. There's a note upstairs saying that someone borrowed the key then went down into the basement, but the basement's flooded and there's an electrical current charging the water. You gotta turn off the current, but to do that you need bolt cutters which are in the toolshed in the backyard. Unfortunately, Old Man Doomguy is getting a little senile in his old age and mined the backyard, so you need a mine detector. The mine detector is at the Army Surplus Store but to get there you need a car. Fortunately, your neighbor will let you borrow the car, but first you need a loving LICENSE. System Shock 2 just goes on and on like this and it almost never feels like I'm making any kind of progress.

:negative:

Yeah, I feel the same way pretty much. SS2 combines loads of things I love -- an atmospheric scifi horror rpg shooter dungeon crawler -- but it all adds up to nothing for me because it fails the critical test of actually being fun. I've never played the original so maybe I'm missing out on the backstory or something, but it isn't at all the plot or setting that I dislike, it's the gameplay. I think Arx Fatalis is a vastly superior take on the same sort of game concept, even though it is horribly janky and broken and needs like six patches to work.

Shadow Hog
Feb 23, 2014

Avatar by Jon Davies
The hatch code is 12232113333332121132231321133212113.

...watch out for the Karkian, though.

Lurdiak posted:

From what I remember, it did in the initial launch. A common complaint from reviewers, actually. That was basically an entirely different game, though.
Yeah, I only just started it this year, so I'm pretty firmly in ARR territory (though I'm not too far from HW at this point; patch 2.4, currently, did Snowcloak last night). I'll just have to take your word that it was overbearing in 1.0, since apparently a drat lot was off about that one.

Humans Among Us posted:

That almost sounds like a Resident Evil game
Also somewhat off-topic, but I've been playing this on DS lately, and it's actually pretty fun, despite the fixed camera angles making combat a tad clunky. That said, while the combat in RE4 (which I also decided to give another go recently) definitely feels a lot better (and being able to use mouse and keyboard in the Steam re-release is ace), the original's not too bad.

ChickenHeart posted:

UNATCO hurt my weenie
There's been some activity at sea. I'm going to watch the coast.

jeeves
May 27, 2001

Deranged Psychopathic
Butler Extraordinaire
For those that want a bit more modern Quake 1 custom maps past DOPA and honey, give the mapjam packs a shot.

Someone recommended them to me, and they opened up a whole new world of Quake 1 maps for me. There have been like 6 offical mapjams, with like "classic/explore" jams. Play them in order, as they get crazy better with each one-- the lava themed jam6 is amazing.

Granted, some of the maps are pretty amateur, because you can tell it is a newish map maker joining the jam, but it really lets you find out who is the loving amazing mappers to look out for and to search for other maps by. Socks, Troyn, Scampie, daz, to name a few.

I just finished Troyn's giant vertical castle in jam6 and it is probably one of the most visually huge maps I've ever seen in Quake 1.

Al Cu Ad Solte
Nov 30, 2005
Searching for
a righteous cause
Despite what I said before SS2's ending is perfect. "Nah." Also very much in line with SS1's ending.

Hey, you saved the world. Want to come work for the largest, most powerful corporation in the world? Nope. Gonna go back to hacking in my lovely apartment.

Commander Keenan
Dec 5, 2012

Not Boba Fett
DX Recut and Malkavian Mod get all the love. Here are some other funny DX videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-BQqotCQT0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmQpXpeiPFo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOKt1z1TkvU (I made this one)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=860fXWqbUhs (IW, but cracks me up every time)

Convex
Aug 19, 2010
wow, Deus Ex 2 did not age well at all

Lork
Oct 15, 2007
Sticks to clorf
Another forgotten Deus Ex gem: Old Man Murray's walkthrough for the demo.

skasion posted:

Yeah, I feel the same way pretty much. SS2 combines loads of things I love -- an atmospheric scifi horror rpg shooter dungeon crawler -- but it all adds up to nothing for me because it fails the critical test of actually being fun. I've never played the original so maybe I'm missing out on the backstory or something, but it isn't at all the plot or setting that I dislike, it's the gameplay. I think Arx Fatalis is a vastly superior take on the same sort of game concept, even though it is horribly janky and broken and needs like six patches to work.
The thing you missed by not playing the first game is a chance to see what an actually good Shock game is like. Keep an eye out for the remake.

catlord
Mar 22, 2009

What's on your mind, Axa?
I absolutely adore SS2, which is why the fact that Deus Ex hasn't clicked with me yet is so confusing to me.

Commander Keenan posted:

Deus Ex is a showcase example of a game that "clicks" with players. You could play 70% of the game before "getting" it. (The early example that people get excited about is the mission at LaGuardia Airport.)

This is absolutely right, and I can tell it when I'm playing it, but that click just never hits. It's been a while since I last tried, what's the ideal setup for somebody who's on their... fourth attempt at a first playthrough? I remember grabbing the new renderers and a new launcher, should I just do that again?

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011
Don't worry about the renderers or whatever, just play the game. I agree that it can take awhile to get working - it did take until LaGuardia for me the first time I'm pretty sure.

Samuel Clemens
Oct 4, 2013

I think we should call the Avengers.

catlord posted:

I absolutely adore SS2, which is why the fact that Deus Ex hasn't clicked with me yet is so confusing to me.

I don't think it's that surprising. Despite being made by the same developers, they're very different games at their core. Deus Ex' appeal lies in its open levels which allow for multiple approaches and reward exploration as well as the fact that its story somehow manages to incorporate every conspiracy theory under the sun, while SS2 is beloved for its dense atmosphere and unique blend of FPS, RPG, and survival horror elements. Plenty of people love both, but it's easily possible that you'd enjoy one, but not the other.

Edit: Deus Ex' shooting mechanics are also harder to get used to at first because of the changing crosshair. SS2's gunplay is more straightforward. Once you rebind every button, anyway.

2nd Edit:

Convex posted:

wow, Deus Ex 2 did not age well at all

It didn't look all that great when it first came out either. Then again, neither did the first game.

Samuel Clemens fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Jul 29, 2016

Curdy Lemonstan
Jan 25, 2012

by zen death robot

catlord posted:

I absolutely adore SS2, which is why the fact that Deus Ex hasn't clicked with me yet is so confusing to me.


This is absolutely right, and I can tell it when I'm playing it, but that click just never hits. It's been a while since I last tried, what's the ideal setup for somebody who's on their... fourth attempt at a first playthrough? I remember grabbing the new renderers and a new launcher, should I just do that again?

Just watch a competent LP up to hells kitchen and if your fingers arent itching to discover all of the game's secrets then you can safely move on.

Origami Dali
Jan 7, 2005

Get ready to fuck!
You fucker's fucker!
You fucker!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6emKRhNk24

New early Brutal Doom 64 extended gameplay video. Looks cool.

Mill Village
Jul 27, 2007

This is based off Doom 64 EX, right? I can't imagine Sgt Mark IV doing this from scratch.

Selenephos
Jul 9, 2010

Convex posted:

wow, Deus Ex 2 did not age well at all

The most impressive thing about it was the lighting system which... Deus Ex 2 barely used at all and the same lighting system was put to much better use in Thief: Deadly Shadows instead.

Assepoester
Jul 18, 2004
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
Melman v2

Al Cu Ad Solte posted:

Man sometimes I feel like the only person that never got swayed by System Shock 2. I love the original but 2 just doesn't do it for me. I love Eric Brosius' sound design, I love exploring the ship, and Shodan is a PERFECT villain, but the moment to moment gameplay is just a slog for me. The RPG mechanics feel like gibberish. I can carry this grenade launcher in my inventory but I'm not strong enough to wield it? Instead of trying to make the cyberspace and other minigames better (not that I think they were all that bad in the first place) they stripped them out and replaced them with the most boring hacking minigame ever.

And then the mission design. You gotta go make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, but first you need to go get the bread. The cabinet is locked, and the key is upstairs. There's a note upstairs saying that someone borrowed the key then went down into the basement, but the basement's flooded and there's an electrical current charging the water. You gotta turn off the current, but to do that you need bolt cutters which are in the toolshed in the backyard. Unfortunately, Old Man Doomguy is getting a little senile in his old age and mined the backyard, so you need a mine detector. The mine detector is at the Army Surplus Store but to get there you need a car. Fortunately, your neighbor will let you borrow the car, but first you need a loving LICENSE. System Shock 2 just goes on and on like this and it almost never feels like I'm making any kind of progress.

:negative:
http://www.caltrops.com/review0010.php

Al Cu Ad Solte
Nov 30, 2005
Searching for
a righteous cause

Jeez, this thing was kind of harsh. SS2 isn't thatbad. Funny enough it reminded me of the existence of the degrading weapons and enemy respawning. I completely forgot those were things because I cfg filed that poo poo right out.

"The best way to describe it (System Shock) was 'Die Hard in space'. You were a cybernetic Bruce Willis foiling the plans of a terrorist A.I. at every turn."

I've never heard System Shock described this way and it couldn't be any more perfect. :allears:

Vakal
May 11, 2008
The worst part of System Shock 2 was finding the generic dead body of Marie Delacroix in some random shuttle bay since the SS2 engine didn't really support NPCs. :(

Samuel Clemens
Oct 4, 2013

I think we should call the Avengers.

The only old-school FPS reviews I can respect are those using Old Man Murray's Crate Review System™.

Vakal posted:

The worst part of System Shock 2 was finding the generic dead body of Marie Delacroix in some random shuttle bay since the SS2 engine didn't really support NPCs. :(

I hope I wasn't the only one who spent a long time looking for her in the cargo bays on Engineering.

Keiya
Aug 22, 2009

Come with me if you want to not die.

Mercury Crusader posted:

So for the past day or two I've been playing around with Quake on DOSBOX because I didn't know the GOG release included the DOS version, and in a fit of nostalgia I wanted to get that running. Anyway, I wanted to play that new DOPA episode they released a while back on it but I also like how the DOSBOX launcher thing GOG had allowed me to select mission packs in a simple manner. I searched online to see if anybody bothered trying to add that in but I guess not so I did it myself.



So that was easy. I guess the other one or two folks that might care about struggling with the DOSBOX version can use this.

EDIT: lol "choice 5" to exit is broken, forgot to add the number 5 to the line:

code:
choice /c12345 /s Which game do you want to run? [1-5]: /n 

Wait, wait, since when has Windows supported ansi codes? Last time I checked you had to use the horrible native api rather than just sticking stuff in the output stream like EVERY OTHER TERMINAL EMULATOR EVER.

Edit: I am dumb, that's running in dosbox.

Keiya fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Jul 30, 2016

Origami Dali
Jan 7, 2005

Get ready to fuck!
You fucker's fucker!
You fucker!

Mill Village posted:

This is based off Doom 64 EX, right? I can't imagine Sgt Mark IV doing this from scratch.

Yeah, it's basically a big EX mod.

Instruction Manuel
May 15, 2007

Yes, it is what it looks like!

Mill Village posted:

This is based off Doom 64 EX, right? I can't imagine Sgt Mark IV doing this from scratch.

Lol, as if Sgt wouldn't take the shortest possible route. I wonder if there will be anything else coming from him. Seems pretty one note now.

Pomp
Apr 3, 2012

by Fluffdaddy
i miss old man murray

Shadow Hog
Feb 23, 2014

Avatar by Jon Davies

Mill Village posted:

This is based off Doom 64 EX, right? I can't imagine Sgt Mark IV doing this from scratch.
Well it's certainly not running on Doom 64 EX, anyway; it's another GZDoom mod, like Brutal Wolfenstein and Brutal Quake, Brutal Duke Nukem 3D and Brutal Depth Dwellers were before it. (I may have just made half of those up, but the first half is real.)

Keiya
Aug 22, 2009

Come with me if you want to not die.

Keiya posted:

Wait, wait, since when has Windows supported ansi codes? Last time I checked you had to use the horrible native api rather than just sticking stuff in the output stream like EVERY OTHER TERMINAL EMULATOR EVER.

Edit: I am dumb, that's running in dosbox.

I am still dumb, but: holy poo poo they actually added support in win10 at some point.

code:
@ECHO OFF

ECHO #[33;42;1m
ECHO +------------------------------------+
ECHO ^| 1) Quake                           ^|
ECHO ^| 2) Quake: Scorge of Armagon        ^|
ECHO ^| 3) Quake: Dissolution of Eternity  ^|
ECHO ^| 4) Quake: Dimension of the Past    ^|
ECHO ^| 5) Arcane Dimensions               ^|
ECHO +------------------------------------+
ECHO ^| 6) Exit                            ^|
ECHO +------------------------------------+
ECHO #[0m

CHOICE /C 123456 /M "Which game do you want to run? [1-6]:" /N

if errorlevel 6 goto exit
if errorlevel 5 goto ad
if errorlevel 4 goto dopa
if errorlevel 3 goto rogue
if errorlevel 2 goto hipnotic
if errorlevel 1 goto quake

:quake
quakespasm
exit

:hipnotic
quakespasm -hipnotic
exit

:rogue
quakespasm -rogue
exit

:dopa
quakespasm -game dopa
exit

:ad
quakespasm -heapsize 256000 -zone 4096 -game ad
exit

:exit
exit
To get this to work with colors you'll probably have to break open a hex editor and replace the hash symbols with ESCs, no editor I've tried but good ol' edit will let you type an escape and that doesn't work on win64.

Now if only I could fix arcane dimensions complaining about an autoexec.cfg file every time.

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catlord
Mar 22, 2009

What's on your mind, Axa?

Shadow Hog posted:

Well it's certainly not running on Doom 64 EX, anyway; it's another GZDoom mod, like Brutal Wolfenstein and Brutal Quake, Brutal Duke Nukem 3D and Brutal Depth Dwellers were before it. (I may have just made half of those up, but the first half is real.)

Brutal Depth Dwellers wasn't anywhere near as good as Brutal Operation Body Count.

Started up Deus Ex again, I forgot how wildly inaccurate this highly trained and augmented agent is. I'm in the sewers looking for the Ambrosia shipment that got stolen now, I've spent most of my time getting the poo poo kicked out of me.

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