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Powered Descent
Jul 13, 2008

We haven't had that spirit here since 1969.

WELCOME TO MY HOME PAGE
!!!!!!!!!
I KISS YOU !!!!!

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Gaz2k21
Sep 1, 2006

MEGALA---WHO??!!??

woodch posted:


More recently, do you remember having to figure out what DVD+/-R you had to buy to make your copies work with your DVD player, or your burner, or your Xbox or whatever? I'm so glad they worked that poo poo out eventually, and everything just sorta works with everything else (when the media isn't total garbage).

Oh god I had a worse problem, I had the glorious Samsung 709 DVD Player it wouldn't read any copied DVD's so I'd rip DVD's convert them to VCD (This process took the best part of 2 days for a 90 minute movie) and even then it would only read VCD's burnt on one specific brand of CD that wasn't officially sold in the UK and had to be acquired on Ebay at about twice the cost of other CD-R's.

My heart sank whenever a burn failed.

JediTalentAgent
Jun 5, 2005
Hey, look. Look, if- if you screw me on this, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine, you rat bastard!
I think a site called VCDHelper or DVDHelper and now likely something else used to keep a huge user created database of various DVD players, their features, region codes, etc.

stuffed crust punk
Oct 8, 2004

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Same

BOOTY-ADE
Aug 30, 2006

BIG KOOL TELLIN' Y'ALL TO KEEP IT TIGHT

Gaz2k21 posted:

Oh god I had a worse problem, I had the glorious Samsung 709 DVD Player it wouldn't read any copied DVD's so I'd rip DVD's convert them to VCD (This process took the best part of 2 days for a 90 minute movie) and even then it would only read VCD's burnt on one specific brand of CD that wasn't officially sold in the UK and had to be acquired on Ebay at about twice the cost of other CD-R's.

My heart sank whenever a burn failed.

Stuff like this made me SO happy for USB and AUX connectivity on new electronics. It's a lot nicer not having to hassle with discs that had limited size/time and hope that you didn't get cheap discs or have problems burning at native speeds and end up with a bunch of coasters.

Kthulhu5000
Jul 25, 2006

by R. Guyovich

Uncle at Nintendo posted:

Yep, I'd watch as the buffer meter went up and up, desperately hoping it burned ok and didn't cost me an hour's pay if it failed. I'll tell you what though, those $5 CD-R's still work to this day. Any made past 2000 flakes away at any slight movement.

It was until at least 2003 that you couldn't do anything on your computer while burning. 1997 though it was like the planets had to align right. I'm really surprised Sega even had the foresight to put copy protection on the Saturn considering I don't think CD burners were even thought to be a thing that could exist. I'm actually still kind of impressed it exists.

Sega and Sony probably included CD protection in the Saturn and Playstation to counteract the China and Hong Kong-based piracy industries, rather than anything related to home users copying discs. The video, audio, and data piracy industry in the region was big enough for the US government to threaten tariffs and sanctions over in mid-1990s, if the Chinese government didn't take action to do something about it. Likely, then, Sega and had some inkling about what a bunch of dedicated CD duplication factories could do, and acted to make it more difficult.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Anime Deviant
I've always been amazed that the Sega CD uses Redbook audio, and that you could play all the music/voice assets in a regular CD player.

Granted there wasn't much in the way of codecs of compression back then.


It's also been interesting to find out that the Saturn has copy protection baked into the discs with the little physical squiggle on the rim. The Dreamcast basically relied on the GDrom (or was that GameCube) to be burned inside out or something correct?

r u ready to WALK
Sep 29, 2001

Remember the swap trick?

Most of those old consoles including the Saturn only checked the CD copy protection once at boot, and since were top loaders you could tape or glue down the lid sensor button, open the lid without the console knowing after it had checked the copy protection and replace the original CD with your burned copy. You had to time it just right so the console was finished checking but hadn't had time to reposition the laser and read the game executable yet :ninja:

Buttcoin purse
Apr 24, 2014

Tubesock Holocaust posted:

I remember creating a mock-up rent-a-car website on Geocities for an economics class project back in high school around 2001 or 2002. I completely forgot all about it for years, only to make a mad dash to find it just before Geocities bit the dust. Never did find it. :(

Did you look on any of the Geocities archives? Did I already mention doing that in this thread, possibly even to you? :v:

error1 posted:

Remember the swap trick?

Most of those old consoles including the Saturn only checked the CD copy protection once at boot, and since were top loaders you could tape or glue down the lid sensor button, open the lid without the console knowing after it had checked the copy protection and replace the original CD with your burned copy. You had to time it just right so the console was finished checking but hadn't had time to reposition the laser and read the game executable yet :ninja:

I think I read that with PlayStation 2, you can only do that sort of thing with particular games, at particular points in the game even?

laserghost
Feb 12, 2014

trust me, I'm a cat.

error1 posted:

Remember the swap trick?

Most of those old consoles including the Saturn only checked the CD copy protection once at boot, and since were top loaders you could tape or glue down the lid sensor button, open the lid without the console knowing after it had checked the copy protection and replace the original CD with your burned copy. You had to time it just right so the console was finished checking but hadn't had time to reposition the laser and read the game executable yet :ninja:

wasn't this abused with PS2 and the magic disc or whatever was that called?

also when my dad discovered eMule, he got broadband connection and a CD burner with stack of cheap-rear end CDs. I spent way too much time looking for poo poo he wanted (more often than not in 192kbps mp3s), burning it (of course with cracked software), labeling it etc. There were a lot of unreadable CDs, and of course it was all my fault :v: This was 10+ yrs ago, so most of those CDs are totally worthless now, so he asks me now to redownload a lot of stuff now, but now in flac and wav.

Buttcoin purse
Apr 24, 2014

WebDog posted:

The problem with After Dark is that it ran off 16bit. Windows 32 bit is the best option you have and there's a user hack to get version 3.0 running by jimmying in .dlls from newer versions of the program. After Dark 4.0 can work on Windows 10 with a bit of compatibility wrangling but that has the modern modules

The cool thing is that when it does work it actually tiles the screensavers so they work perfectly on 16:9 screens.

I spent a little bit more time on After Dark today:

I found a manual which I think might have been for version 1, and it says you can configure a hotkey which starts the screensaver. This means it should be pretty easy to write a little program that simulates that keystroke to start the screensaver.

I also managed to find version 3:



No, I don't mean I managed to find these on eBay or a download site, I mean that with a lot of difficulty I found them stashed in my house :suicide:

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006

Enjoy every sandwich.

Smellrose

I never realized how much he looks like Johnny Five-Aces.

GORDON
Jan 1, 2006

by Fluffdaddy

ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:

I never realized how much he looks like Johnny Five-Aces.

I haven't seen that in what... 20 years? But I remembered him as looking like Borat.

Pretty good
Apr 16, 2007



Pending somewhat corrected Wikipedia article (battling with some biased mods)

Chumbawumba4ever97
Dec 31, 2000

by Fluffdaddy

Kthulhu5000 posted:

Sega and Sony probably included CD protection in the Saturn and Playstation to counteract the China and Hong Kong-based piracy industries, rather than anything related to home users copying discs. The video, audio, and data piracy industry in the region was big enough for the US government to threaten tariffs and sanctions over in mid-1990s, if the Chinese government didn't take action to do something about it. Likely, then, Sega and had some inkling about what a bunch of dedicated CD duplication factories could do, and acted to make it more difficult.

That makes a lot more sense (being worried about mass-produced discs from a Chinese factory). Thanks!

woodch posted:


More recently, do you remember having to figure out what DVD+/-R you had to buy to make your copies work with your DVD player, or your burner, or your Xbox or whatever? I'm so glad they worked that poo poo out eventually, and everything just sorta works with everything else (when the media isn't total garbage).

haha yeah! Better yet, I remember that DVD-R had better compatibility with stuff, but DVD+R had something about them that allowed you to change their "bit setting" or something. Basically with a hacked DVD burner firmware, you could force DVD+R discs to "report" as DVDs (not burned). I remember spending countless hours flashing my Plextor and Pioneer DVD burners with custom firmwares. It was ridiculous.

JediTalentAgent posted:

I think a site called VCDHelper or DVDHelper and now likely something else used to keep a huge user created database of various DVD players, their features, region codes, etc.

doom9.org was one!

Casimir Radon
Aug 2, 2008


I liked when CDs didn't really have copy protection because most people didn't have burners. My copies of Tonka Construction and Fate of Atlantis were decidedly not legit.

thathonkey
Jul 17, 2012

Uncle at Nintendo posted:

Yep, I'd watch as the buffer meter went up and up, desperately hoping it burned ok and didn't cost me an hour's pay if it failed. I'll tell you what though, those $5 CD-R's still work to this day. Any made past 2000 flakes away at any slight movement.

It was until at least 2003 that you couldn't do anything on your computer while burning. 1997 though it was like the planets had to align right. I'm really surprised Sega even had the foresight to put copy protection on the Saturn considering I don't think CD burners were even thought to be a thing that could exist. I'm actually still kind of impressed it exists.

interesting since the dreamcast had 0 copy protection and would play literally any brand of CD-R I tried. meanwhile my car stereos of the time would only work with certain brands if at all.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Anime Deviant

thathonkey posted:

interesting since the dreamcast had 0 copy protection and would play literally any brand of CD-R I tried. meanwhile my car stereos of the time would only work with certain brands if at all.
The CD media wasn't an issue with the Dreamcast, it was the burner brand and model. I think certain Phillips burners were juuuuust the right type to get it to work.

Chumbawumba4ever97
Dec 31, 2000

by Fluffdaddy

thathonkey posted:

interesting since the dreamcast had 0 copy protection and would play literally any brand of CD-R I tried. meanwhile my car stereos of the time would only work with certain brands if at all.

Well to be fair to Sega that was because their discs were on 1 gb proprietary media and they knew no one would have a gd-rom burner. Their problems started when people figured out how to dump the discs and chop out stuff to make it fit.

Later model Dreamcasts could not read CDRs. Not sure how they managed that.

I think the games STILL require a program called Disc Juggler to burn. Like even since the early 2000s no other program can burn them.

Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

😎🐗🚬

iirc the idea for Dreamcast games is that many discs had to be "overburned" beyond their listed capacities and not all discs or burner hardware/software can do it properly.

Leroy Dennui
Aug 9, 2014

Gina McCarthy made us gay,
but we would not have met
had Biden not dropped his cones
:gaysper::frogbon:

FilthyImp posted:

I've always been amazed that the Sega CD uses Redbook audio, and that you could play all the music/voice assets in a regular CD player.

It's entirely possible to replace the MP3 files in a Sega CD ROM's data folder with your own tracks and have them play in-game on an emulator. Makes me wonder if you can get your own songs running in Sonic CD on a real Sega CD...

Clitch
Feb 26, 2002

I lived through
Donald Trump's presidency
and all I got was
this lousy virus
Wasn't Sega telling publishers to pad their game files beyond the standard CDR size, so they couldn't be burned?

azurite
Jul 25, 2010

Strange, isn't it?!


Mak0rz posted:

iirc the idea for Dreamcast games is that many discs had to be "overburned" beyond their listed capacities and not all discs or burner hardware/software can do it properly.

I'd like to see a definitive write-up about how these discs are constructed. There's a lot of differing opinions about how it was done. I read somewhere that they're essentially normal CDs with the error correcting data removed, so the data was more densely packed. This would also explain why the discs are unusually vulnerable to minor scratches.

I've also read that the data was written from outside to inside instead of the other way around. I don't know if it's one theory, the other, or a combination.

Edit:

wikipedia posted:

It is similar to the standard CD-ROM except that the pits on the disc are packed more closely together,
...
Sega achieved the higher density by decreasing the speed of the disc to half and by letting the standard CD-ROM components read at the normal rate thus nearly doubling the disc's data density. This method allowed Sega to use cheaper off-the-shelf components when building the Dreamcast.

azurite has a new favorite as of 03:53 on Aug 1, 2016

monster on a stick
Apr 29, 2013

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bobsgame

quote:

I am Robert Pelloni, creator of "bob's game."

I am the Messiah and the true successor to Jesus Christ.

Ok then.

90s Solo Cup
Feb 22, 2011

To understand the cup
He must become the cup



error1 posted:

Remember the swap trick?

Most of those old consoles including the Saturn only checked the CD copy protection once at boot, and since were top loaders you could tape or glue down the lid sensor button, open the lid without the console knowing after it had checked the copy protection and replace the original CD with your burned copy. You had to time it just right so the console was finished checking but hadn't had time to reposition the laser and read the game executable yet :ninja:

Speaking of lasers, did anyone else have problems with PS1/PS2 lasers "burning out" or just going out of adjustment after a couple of years? I had that happen to my original PSX, had it happen to my second PS One and it happened to two PS2s within a couple of years of buying each one.

Buttcoin purse posted:

Did you look on any of the Geocities archives? Did I already mention doing that in this thread, possibly even to you? :v:


Don't remember seeing it, but I'll give it a try.

Buttcoin purse
Apr 24, 2014

Tubesock Holocaust posted:

Don't remember seeing it, but I'll give it a try.

http://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=GeoCities is probably a good place to start for info on what is available out there.

Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

😎🐗🚬

Tubesock Holocaust posted:

Speaking of lasers, did anyone else have problems with PS1/PS2 lasers "burning out" or just going out of adjustment after a couple of years? I had that happen to my original PSX, had it happen to my second PS One and it happened to two PS2s within a couple of years of buying each one.

I know a guy whose PS1 did that and he somehow discovered that turning the system upsidedown fixed it entirely so he'd put a disc in, flip it over, and reach under to turn it on and play like normal with the PS1 just sitting on its own lid.

Chumbawumba4ever97
Dec 31, 2000

by Fluffdaddy

Tubesock Holocaust posted:

Speaking of lasers, did anyone else have problems with PS1/PS2 lasers "burning out" or just going out of adjustment after a couple of years? I had that happen to my original PSX, had it happen to my second PS One and it happened to two PS2s within a couple of years of buying each one.


The original PS1 systems had really bad overheating problems but not so much with the lasers. The PS2 had probably the worst lasers ever used. The PStwo continued this tradition with a laser that received too much voltage and burned out ridiculously fast. I don't remember the PSone being that bad though.

Mak0rz posted:

I know a guy whose PS1 did that and he somehow discovered that turning the system upsidedown fixed it entirely so he'd put a disc in, flip it over, and reach under to turn it on and play like normal with the PS1 just sitting on its own lid.

This wasn't really from the laser dying. The mechanism that held the laser would drop. Flipping the system upsidedown put it back in its original place.

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

I had a Sony CD player that would not read discs properly unless I put two Lego bricks under the feet on the left side. I only noticed this because while I was trying to fix it I accidentally moved it so that the right side feet slid off the table while it was playing, and it started working. The feet were just about the height of a standard Lego brick.

Alan_Shore
Dec 2, 2004

EQ Talk: I have, and always shall, set all my EQs to Rock. I hope I haven't been making a HUGE error.

I recently got back into MiniDiscs, because they are cool as gently caress. Got a Sharp player/recorder off eBay. I even bought an optical cable so I could record at the maximum quality MiniDisc can handle, which, as it turns out, isn't very high at all. I have one official album: Bat Out Of Hell. I regret nothing (turns out MiniDisc albums are ridiculously expensive, except for an Oasis album that people are DESPERATE to get rid of).

I'm confused why MiniDisc chat isn't bigger. All the forums are dead, no one cares. But they're so cool! Much cooler that cassettes. Where's the MD love? I've been falling asleep to my mixtape at night, it's nice.

RE: Sega Saturn. It was cracked recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOyfZex7B3E

This is sooo exciting, especially if he can manufacture the card. Every Saturn game, ever, sitting on a HDD inside your Saturn. Maybe it could even by a music player. I love that console.

thathonkey
Jul 17, 2012
I remember there was some problem with the PS2 that if you played it stood it up in the provided vertical stand it would cause discs to warp after too long or something ? not sure if that's actually true but i had heard that rumor so when i finally got a PS2 i always left it horizontal.

Drastic Actions
Apr 7, 2009

FUCK YOU!
GET PUMPED!
Nap Ghost

Alan_Shore posted:

EQ Talk: I have, and always shall, set all my EQs to Rock. I hope I haven't been making a HUGE error.

I recently got back into MiniDiscs, because they are cool as gently caress. Got a Sharp player/recorder off eBay. I even bought an optical cable so I could record at the maximum quality MiniDisc can handle, which, as it turns out, isn't very high at all. I have one official album: Bat Out Of Hell. I regret nothing (turns out MiniDisc albums are ridiculously expensive, except for an Oasis album that people are DESPERATE to get rid of).

I'm confused why MiniDisc chat isn't bigger. All the forums are dead, no one cares. But they're so cool! Much cooler that cassettes. Where's the MD love? I've been falling asleep to my mixtape at night, it's nice.

I originally got one through my parents. They bought me one thinking that it was similar to the hip iPod's that everyone had. They were wrong, but I still liked it anyway. Eventually I bought myself an iRiver H10 and stopped using it, but I started to get back into that and Clie's (The best Palm PDA's IMO, their designs hold up quite well today) a few years ago, so I got a few models now.

I still loving hate Sonicstage though.

Chumbawumba4ever97
Dec 31, 2000

by Fluffdaddy

thathonkey posted:

I remember there was some problem with the PS2 that if you played it stood it up in the provided vertical stand it would cause discs to warp after too long or something ? not sure if that's actually true but i had heard that rumor so when i finally got a PS2 i always left it horizontal.

You might be thinking of the XBox 360 and standing it vertically (which it was designed to do, supposedly). It would completely destroy the discs on some consoles and I remember Microsoft for a long time claimed it could only happen if you moved the consoles. I think the UK government got involved and they owned up to it.

thathonkey
Jul 17, 2012
i'm pretty sure it was PS2 but i wouldn't be surprised that the 360 had a similar issue at a much higher incidence rate. that thing was a goddamn poo poo heap. red ring of death et al.

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 31, 2003


It's strange to be hearing that so many people had issues with burning Dreamcast games; back in high school the generally accepted theory among my group of friends was that the DC flopped because of how easy it was to burn their games. I can't remember ever having a bad burn on a Dreamcast game, and I don't remember there being a particularly large number of hoops to jump through to get them working properly.

GutBomb
Jun 15, 2005

Dude?

drunk asian neighbor posted:

It's strange to be hearing that so many people had issues with burning Dreamcast games; back in high school the generally accepted theory among my group of friends was that the DC flopped because of how easy it was to burn their games. I can't remember ever having a bad burn on a Dreamcast game, and I don't remember there being a particularly large number of hoops to jump through to get them working properly.

The hoops were all on the end of the people creating the rips of games to be made available on DirectConnect and the like. To rip a dreamcast game one had to have the broadband adapter and the ability to read the disc on a computer connected through ethernet to the broadband ID since the discs couldn't be read fully by the CD-ROM drives on PCs. (They had a partition that could be read by PCs but not the game data) and then once it was ripped the data was too big to fit on a CD so they had to recompress images and videos to shrink their file size, rip out non-redbook audio, (did any DC games use redbook audio?) and repackage them into CDI/GDI disc images which could only be used by DiscJuggler, some obscure disc burning program. Not exactly copy protection, it was more security by obscurity, but still, hoops.

Vargatron
Apr 19, 2008

MRAZZLE DAZZLE


drunk asian neighbor posted:

It's strange to be hearing that so many people had issues with burning Dreamcast games; back in high school the generally accepted theory among my group of friends was that the DC flopped because of how easy it was to burn their games. I can't remember ever having a bad burn on a Dreamcast game, and I don't remember there being a particularly large number of hoops to jump through to get them working properly.

The Dreamcast had a thing where GD-ROM drives would randomly just not work at all. I remember purchasing several games that just wouldn't work, or if they did work at all, they would just randomly not boot the game.

What really killed the Dreamcast was the PS2 launch and the quality of games that came out for that system. It's too bad because the Dreamcast was one of the first consoles to really try and utilize online content.

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 31, 2003


GutBomb posted:

The hoops were all on the end of the people creating the rips of games to be made available on DirectConnect and the like. To rip a dreamcast game one had to have the broadband adapter and the ability to read the disc on a computer connected through ethernet to the broadband ID since the discs couldn't be read fully by the CD-ROM drives on PCs. (They had a partition that could be read by PCs but not the game data) and then once it was ripped the data was too big to fit on a CD so they had to recompress images and videos to shrink their file size, rip out non-redbook audio, (did any DC games use redbook audio?) and repackage them into CDI/GDI disc images which could only be used by DiscJuggler, some obscure disc burning program. Not exactly copy protection, it was more security by obscurity, but still, hoops.

Yeah I meant hoops on the end-user side. DiscJuggler was pretty dead simple to use and I never had issues with the brands of CD-R I was using (wish I could say the same about burning music CDs).

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 31, 2003


Vargatron posted:

The Dreamcast had a thing where GD-ROM drives would randomly just not work at all. I remember purchasing several games that just wouldn't work, or if they did work at all, they would just randomly not boot the game.

What really killed the Dreamcast was the PS2 launch and the quality of games that came out for that system. It's too bad because the Dreamcast was one of the first consoles to really try and utilize online content.

I mean I know the PS2 launch sealed the deal but along with myself I had at least half a dozen friends who had the system and maybe 1 or 2 actually purchased games, and a short spindle of burned games, and I don't think we were that unique. I wonder if there's any data on it, but I gotta say that even in hindsight "the system died because it was piss-easy to play burned games" seems like a pretty legitimate explanation, especially since the DC had so many excellent multiplayer games and top-notch arcade ports (wasn't it the only system to have ports of the Street Fighter 3 series until the anniversary collection or whatever came out on PS3 a couple years ago?)

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Lowen SoDium
Jun 5, 2003

Highen Fiber
Clapping Larry

Vargatron posted:

The Dreamcast had a thing where GD-ROM drives would randomly just not work at all. I remember purchasing several games that just wouldn't work, or if they did work at all, they would just randomly not boot the game.

What really killed the Dreamcast was the PS2 launch and the quality of games that came out for that system. It's too bad because the Dreamcast was one of the first consoles to really try and utilize online content.

Dreamcast had a lot of contributing factors that killed it. The Pending release of the PS2 was a big one, but I personally think that it was more because the PS2 was announced as a DVD player in a time when most people didn't have DVD players yet. Also, Sega had a real problem with 3rd party developers after the botched 32X and Saturn platforms.

I have no doubt that piracy contributed some, but not enough on it's own to kill the system. It was just a convenient scapegoat.

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