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The Gate posted:They're one of those cards that isn't really reliable, but is potentially game changing when it works. For 2 points it's certainly not bad. Potentially game changing is kind of the problem right now, because currently the things that X-Wing The Game highly favors are things that bypass potentially and go straight to guarantees. I mean that's always how it is in games where variance is a factor, things which give you guaranteed results are generally pretty good, but right now the things which are dominant in the game are the things that give the people using them the best and most consistent results on average. It's why Palp aces are so good even though "high potential variance" is supposed to be a drawback for ships leaning on high agility for defense, it's why Jumpmaster torpedo boats are so good because the combination of upgrades you can take turns torpedoes from an iffy upgrade into a largely guaranteed alpha strike. And it's why Cluster Mines and Proximity Mines aren't tearing up the charts even though they have potential to dish out big-money damage outside of the combat phase. I mean hell, Proximity Mine could one-shot Soontir outright! And yet most folks, if they're of a mind to use mines, tend to go with something like a Conner Net because the results (1 damage, ion tokens, loss of an action) are guaranteed rather than up to chance, because chance has that nasty tendency to go against you whenever you least want it to. That's kind of where I see these things, in the same general category of Prox and Cluster Mines, an upgrade that you'll maybe get a cool story to tell out of but that you'll spend a lot of time wondering if the points wouldn't be better spent elsewhere. I'm not even sure how these things really threaten crackswarms all that much since unless you're just crossing your fingers for lucky crits it won't really do much to stop swarm ships outright, I guess the idea is you're using it to improve the odds of followup attacks taking out individual ships, but it still seems like an iffy thing to try and plan around.
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Aug 1, 2016 18:55
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Really can't believe they worded it so that the ship owner rolls the dice though.
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Aug 1, 2016 19:03
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hoiyes posted:Really can't believe they worded it so that the ship owner rolls the dice though. Why not? It's the same for striking an obstacle or running over mines. Having your opponent be betrayed by his own hot attack dice is the best thing.
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Aug 1, 2016 19:06
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It also literally can't hasten to the ships that it would otherwise actually be effective against. If you manage to catch both aces in a Palpaces list against one asteroid, good job your opponent hosed up really bad, and there's still an automatic guarantee that at least one won't take damage. That said, I'm looking forward to Airen Cracken shenanigans with seismic torps in the combat phase.
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Aug 1, 2016 20:41
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canyoneer posted:Why not? It's the same for striking an obstacle or running over mines. It brings Palp into the fray.
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Aug 1, 2016 21:42
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Strobe posted:It also literally can't hasten to the ships that it would otherwise actually be effective against. If you manage to catch both aces in a Palpaces list against one asteroid, good job your opponent hosed up really bad, and there's still an automatic guarantee that at least one won't take damage. If they have to Palp in the action phase, and can't use it in combat when you stack up 4 hits with an attack, that's actually loving huge. If you manage an actual hit that's all well and good, but burning a Palp usage is actually pretty loving baller. That's how poo poo like Soontir blanking his dice turns into a dead Soontir instead of flying away with an HP left.
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Aug 1, 2016 21:48
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Chemmy posted:It brings Palp into the fray. Yeah, I recognize that interaction. What I mean is that I'm unsurprised that the card would handle it that way because of the precedent with obstacle overlap and with mines.
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Aug 1, 2016 21:51
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Yeah, but it's way less effective because a) the psychological effect of I have to avoid range 1 of obstacles because "maybe I'll have to use palp" is way less than "maybe I'll take a hit/crit". Also if Soontir were forced to burn Palp, it would occur before he takes action, so he may be able to disengage, or play safe and token up. It kinda reduces the impact. On the other hand, this torpedo is the first time it's possible to give someone a stress (through the relevant crit) after they set the dial but before they reveal it. Imagine how salty you'd be if your opponent sent you off the board with basically no recourse. Also possible with the Hard turns become red crit. (Quickdraw could also do this by attacking I guess)
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Aug 1, 2016 21:57
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Poopy Palpy posted:Those ships don't have 360° firing arcs. Sure they do
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Aug 1, 2016 22:14
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No, they don't. They have a forward arc, and the ability to perform attacks outside of that arc. It matters.
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Aug 1, 2016 22:17
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The torps feel like a little throw-in that might be pretty good on occasion but you'd never build for them.
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Aug 1, 2016 22:20
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Panzeh posted:The torps feel like a little throw-in that might be pretty good on occasion but you'd never build for them. Like poo poo I'm not. I'm going to go all-in on that shenanigans just because. Gold Squadron Pilot (18) Seismic Torpedoes (2) Bomb Loadout (0) Thermal Detonator (3) Gold Squadron Pilot (18) Seismic Torpedoes (2) Bomb Loadout (0) Thermal Detonator (3) Ten Nunb (31) Veteran Instincts (1) Tractor Beam (1) Fire Control System (2) Airen Cracken (19) Total: 100 Ten uses the tractor to try and roll into a crit, which can't be blocked and parks an enemy near an asteroid. The FCS is there for the singular purpose of rerolling the entire attack if there's not a crit to try and roll into a crit. Cracken shoots, which lets one of the Y-wings pop the torpedo in the combat phase. If the set-up is just right (lol it won't be) they pop the other the next turn at PS 2, and also drop thermal detonators to really gently caress with maneuvering and also stress. It's a terrible list but I'm going to troll the gently caress out of my opponents with it.
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Aug 1, 2016 22:27
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I don't know about effectiveness, but Seismic Torps look really fun. Take the biggest rocks and watch your opponent flounder about trying to stay away from them.
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Aug 2, 2016 00:32
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Is it time to freak about about Latts Razi crew? Because I think it's time to freak about about Latts crew. Good against PtL aces? Yes Good against U-Boats? Yes Good against R3-A2? Yes Is there a matchup this crew isn't awesome in? Swarms, I guess.
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Aug 2, 2016 03:43
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Probably nothing special against VI Brobots. But it's also great against Dash lists and Dengaroo.
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Aug 2, 2016 03:59
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Brunas posted:Is it time to freak about about Latts Razi crew? Because I think it's time to freak about about Latts crew. It's nice that there is something out there that adds more of a downside to acquiring stress, even if it's not available to everyone.
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Aug 2, 2016 04:41
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Brunas posted:Is it time to freak about about Latts Razi crew? Because I think it's time to freak about about Latts crew. Latts Razi is cool because her crew card makes her look like a wildcard punk like Sabine, which means she'd put neat, colorful art on her space bus which retroactively justifies my space garbage truck graffiti hell bus.
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Aug 2, 2016 04:43
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Brunas posted:Is it time to freak about about Latts Razi crew? Because I think it's time to freak about about Latts crew. All of the above? It's a solid upgrade, but increasing your defence at the cost of opening up your opponents' dials seems like a REALLY bad idea to me, not least because it's in a slot and at a cost that Scum just have SO many good options for. It's at its best against Dengaroo though, FTR.
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Aug 2, 2016 17:32
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Yeah, I can't think of a PtL ace that wouldn't be delighted to lose a stress.
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Aug 2, 2016 17:42
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Certainly takes the sting out of being on the wrong end of Zuckuss crew, which is part of the magic of Dengaroo
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Aug 2, 2016 17:55
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canyoneer posted:Certainly takes the sting out of being on the wrong end of Zuckuss crew, which is part of the magic of Dengaroo Yeah, it's at its best against Dengaroo. And Tycho. nerf Tycho..
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Aug 2, 2016 18:03
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So I flew against Dangaroo last night. I admit, when I saw it was Dangaroo I was like "Ugh, dangaroo." (not being super serious, but I said I had heard they're a bit of a pain to fight against,) I was fighting a version of my Inqy-Tie Shuttle-Marak D list. I nearly got one of them by focus firing (I think it had 2 hits left), but I messed up with K turning Inq when I should have turned in, making him lose 2 turns before he could get in the fight. Also, I kept forgetting to use Crackshot on Tomax and Lone wolf when defending on Inqy. It seems even with the Stealth Device people always focus fire on Maarek first and take him out, and leave Inqy for last.  Big Hitter Imp Vets - 99 Pts. The Inquisitor (28): Lone Wolf (2)*+ TIE/v1 (1) Tomax Bren (29): TIE Shuttle (0)+ Crack Shot (1)*+ Mara Jade (3)*+Intelligence Agent(1) Maarek Stele (42): Tractor beam (1)+ Marksmanship (3)+ TIE/D (0)+ Stealth Device (3) This is the list I'm considering running on the 14th, but I feel like this list needs some work, and some of the cards I can't use because I only have proxies for them (the ones marked with *). I feel like though Inqy with lone wolf can hang back at 3 range and take shots and still be far away , it's maybe not the most efficent EPT he could have anyway. With no 1 foreward I find a lot of times after a round or two he ends up too close to everyone. The other upgrade I'm not sure about is intelligence agent. Sadly I don't have a lot of crew memers, and I've cycled a lot of different things in this slot. Someone suggested Systems Officer, but I feel like with Mara I'm trying to get close to the enemy, and it's not likely I'm going to be also 1 range of allies as well very often. I don't have fleet officer., and it has the same problem anyway. I was considering Agent Kallus, (though I need to find the card, it's gone missing somehow) The other crew I have are Recon Spc., Weapons Engineer and Gunner and tactician. None of these really jump out as really good to use for this build.
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Aug 2, 2016 20:20
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How do you not have a crack shot? It came with Imp Veterans. Two of them. Do you have Push the Limit and Autothrusters? if so, I'd strongly suggest putting those on Inquisitor; remove Mara Jade to do it.
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Aug 2, 2016 20:28
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People are killing Maarek first because he's an expensive, easy target. If you're using marksmanship he's got no tokens for defence so even with a stealth device he's going to get hit pretty easily, then he's on 3 naked greens. He's also shooting last so you're not getting much use out of the tractor beam. TIE/x7 and juke are pretty good on Maarek, it works well with two higher PS ships stripping focus before he shoots. In general, I'd say x7 is the stronger upgrade than TIE/D, on top of being cheaper. Intel agent's not all that useful and not really worth keeping, I'd say if you're taking a tie shuttle you should keep it cheap, even with reusable crack shot Tomax doesn't seem that dangerous for his cost. The nature of Xwing movement means lone wolf isn't too great, your ships are all probably converging as they shoot so it's easy to end up at r1-2 of a friendly. If you've got them, the inquisitor really wants PTL and autothrusters to boost his survivability and damage output.
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Aug 2, 2016 20:40
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Latts is actually best vs dash lists because youre basically making half their upgrades worthless.
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Aug 2, 2016 21:30
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Endman posted:I don't know about effectiveness, but Seismic Torps look really fun. Take the biggest rocks and watch your opponent flounder about trying to stay away from them. Ya, maybe I'm a low level casual scrub and all, but I think Seismic Torpedoes look pretty fun. Situational, sure. Gimmicky, hell yes. But those are all reasons why I think they're so awesome.
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Aug 2, 2016 21:34
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AndyElusive posted:Ya, maybe I'm a low level casual scrub and all, but I think Seismic Torpedoes look pretty fun. Situational, sure. Gimmicky, hell yes. But those are all reasons why I think they're so awesome. I am VERY tempted to put them on my Decimator list. I have 2 points leftover. I could bump RAC from Predator to VI and keep the bid, even.
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Aug 2, 2016 21:38
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Foolster41 posted:So I flew against Dangaroo last night. I admit, when I saw it was Dangaroo I was like "Ugh, dangaroo." (not being super serious, but I said I had heard they're a bit of a pain to fight against,) If you're gonna run the Tomax TIE shuttle at least put some useful crew on it.
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Aug 2, 2016 21:51
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zVxTeflon posted:Latts is actually best vs dash lists because youre basically making half their upgrades worthless. Not really. It makes Kanan redundant, which... is fine because Dash still gets the benefit either way, and that's about it. If people still ran Kyle (which they don't) then it would be annoying because Dash wouldn't get the focus for removing a stress.
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Aug 2, 2016 22:01
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It means Dash is paying 3 points for a card that does nothing either way, and giving you more defense in the bargain.
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Aug 2, 2016 22:02
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Strobe posted:It means Dash is paying 3 points for a card that does nothing either way, and giving you more defense in the bargain. I don't use Engine Upgrade every single game, does that mean I wasted 4 points?
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Aug 2, 2016 22:06
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Finster Dexter posted:I don't use Engine Upgrade every single game, does that mean I wasted 4 points? No, because you still had the option to at any point.. Also if you don't use Engine Upgrade in a game but have a build where you include it you're probably bad. Going against Latts, Kanan and Kyle are three points of pretty much useless.
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Aug 2, 2016 22:09
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Strobe posted:No, because you still had the option to at any point.. Also if you don't use Engine Upgrade in a game but have a build where you include it you're probably bad. Going against Latts, Kanan and Kyle are three points of pretty much useless. LOL this argument is dumb. "I'll sure show those Dash players! I'll make Kanan worthless!" *Dash continues to reveal hard turns and 3-banks* I know, the next time you wipe someone out with XXX make sure to let them know that they made your Integrated Astromech worthless by not dealing damage cards to you. "Latts takes away the option to use Kanan!" Ok but you didn't take away the benefit... the whole point of Kanan is removing stress tokens... so you replaced Kanan's ability to remove stress tokens with a stress token removal. 
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Aug 2, 2016 22:14
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Yes, my zero point upgrade was totally worthless.  If I ever flew Dash and came up against Latts (which I won't because gently caress big ships), I'd 100% want to have something that wasn't Kanan or Kyle in the crew slot.
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Aug 2, 2016 22:21
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Strobe posted:Yes, my zero point upgrade was totally worthless. Well, considering the other Modifications you could've had... it's less than worthless.
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Aug 2, 2016 22:25
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I see what you're trying to say, but Dash players aren't going to be giving any fucks, unless every single list ever brings Latts Razzi. If that's the case, then the meta will dictate bringing some other crew. Not to mention, if someone brought Latts, it means I may end up not having to worry about getting double-stressed, because I can just attack the Latts ship for extra stress removal. Guaranteed that is how Dengaroo players will view it, as well.
Finster Dexter fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Aug 2, 2016 |
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Aug 2, 2016 22:27
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Also, if Dash doesn't have Kanan, couldn't the ship with Latts just, you know, not remove the stress token from Dash and screw him over way way worse? Like, what's worse? Having your 3 point crew rendered "useless" by a ship that removes your stress for you or not being able to shed your PtL stress because your opponent isn't a moron?
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Aug 2, 2016 22:31
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People making GBS threads themselves over a decent scum crew itt.
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Aug 2, 2016 22:36
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I don't see Latts as game-breaking or anything. It's like a lovely version of Autothrusters.
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Aug 2, 2016 22:38
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Its not just Kanan that Latts screws over. Its the entire PTL HLC combo as well as his ghost wingman w/hera crew. And lol noone is saying to change your entire dash list to meta counter 1 crew card thats retarded as hell but it does hit Dash more than prob any other list.
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Aug 2, 2016 22:38
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