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Lurdiak posted:ImpAtom was repeatedly saying the book was poorly written, and got really upset that I disagreed without writing a novel. I don't mind if people criticize the book, I'm not married to it. I think its lovely, nice rant btw
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Aug 2, 2016 14:22
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Franchescanado posted:You argue that it is an unsuccessful superhero comic because it doesn't have enough POWs and BOOMs and flying fists. Superhero stories benefit from superhero action. The Killing Joke is barely keeping with even the trappings of the genre. The fairground setting is at least some good stuff, in the original colours. The movie conversely has superhero action, but it doesn't have the comic's visual and narrative strength. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Aug 2, 2016 |
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Aug 2, 2016 14:32
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:I think its lovely, nice rant btw Thanks, glad you agree with it.
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Aug 2, 2016 14:46
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Superhero stories benefit from superhero action. The Killing Joke is barely keeping with even the trappings of the genre. The fair setting is at least some good stuff, in the original colours. Superhero stories benefit from Superhero Action. This does not define them. The barest definition of a superhero story is for someone to identify as a superhero or (masked) vigilante. Even that is questionable, because you have characters that subjugate this definition while still falling within it's definition (The Punisher, Ghost Rider, Blade, etc.) The Killing Joke isn't trying to keep within the trappings of the genre. Alan Moore's whole MO, for better or for worse, is to destroy genre trappings. We are still in a post-modern movement of art. This means tearing down idols, rules, structure to create something new and to call into questions tropes, and understanding of literature. Hence stories like Super, Kick-rear end, Watchmen, the new Deadpool movie. The Killing Joke holds it's place in the modern lexicon of comic books, despite whether it's good or not, because it is a notable work from the 80's when these stories weren't as common that calls into question what it means for Batman to be a vigilante and the cycle that he creates around him. Have you read some of Marvel's most popular runs since 2012? Many of them have single issues where we're given an insight into a character's life. Hawkeye and Superior Foes come to mind. They still include action, but that's not what's defining them. Character should always be priority. That's my personal opinion. Flying fists are fine, but you gotta root for (or maybe hate) the person who's throwing them. If they're just a bland nobody, the work can be salvaged by good art, but it doesn't linger in the minds of readers. Also, you think TKJ movie is better than the comic, so I realize that writing this is a vain attempt at giving you understanding as to why you're a serious loving idiot and should be euthanized.
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Aug 2, 2016 14:50
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Franchescanado posted:Superhero stories benefit from Superhero Action. This does not define them. Actually it does define them. The superhero genre is fundamentally about exceptional figures in extraordinary or superhuman action and drama. The spate of the PoMo "superhero" comics that are "not defined by superhero action" is more a device to sell non-superhero stories in a market where superhero comics are supreme - Ex Machina is a good example. The superhero aspect is a fairly obvious way of "selling" the political drama, and the comic tends to lose focus when the superhero aspect takes over. The Fix is the exact same comic as Sinister Foes, just without superheroes or supervillains. And calling comics like Sinister Foes, Squirrel Girl, and Howard the Duck iconoclastic or innovative is pretty silly, they operate by equally strict rules of irony and comedy. Also the TKJ comic is better than the movie, but it's still not very good. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Aug 2, 2016 |
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Aug 2, 2016 15:15
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Lurdiak posted:I'm sorry that I don't see the value in endlessly ranting about something, especially when my entire angle on that thing is asinine and clearly motivated by fanboyism of a lovely character. But please feel free to continue judging me as a person for disagreeing with one thing you said in your gigantic idiotic rant. You do see the irony in fanboying out while decrying fanboying right? Also no one called it poorly written just that part of it is, which it absolutely is. I don't give a gently caress about batgirl as a character but poorly written is poorly written. So stop being a smug, disingenuous motherfucker.
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Aug 2, 2016 15:18
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CharlestheHammer posted:You do see the irony in fanboying out while decrying fanboying right? Also no one called it poorly written just that part of it is, which it absolutely is. I don't give a gently caress about batgirl as a character but poorly written is poorly written. So stop being a smug, disingenuous motherfucker. I'm not fanboying out for poo poo, I'm reacting to an idiot thinking his stupid lovely opinion was worth more than a one sentence middle finger. If I can't be smug while replying to someone who throws a fit about how people disagreeing with him must be bad posters, I don't know when I can be. Not sure why you think something that obvious requires you to come in and declare me disingenuous, though.
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Aug 2, 2016 15:22
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Actually it does define them. The superhero genre is fundamentally about exceptional figures in extraordinary or superhuman action and drama. The spate of the PoMo superhero comics that are "not defined by superhero action" is more a device to sell stories in a market where superhero comics are supreme - Ex Machina is a good example. The superhero aspect is a fairly obvious way of "selling" the political drama, and the comic tends to lose focus when the superhero aspect takes over. The Fix is the exact same comic as Sinister Foes, just without superheroes or supervillains. And calling comics like Sinister Foes, Squirrel Girl, and Howard the Duck aren't iconoclastic or innovative is pretty silly, they operate by equally strict rules of irony and comedy. Thank you for agreeing with me and admitting you were wrong, it takes a big person to admit defeat.
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Aug 2, 2016 15:32
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Grrrrr gently caress you your OPINION IS poo poo. HOW DARE YOU. aaaaaaAAAAAHHHHHHH
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Aug 2, 2016 15:34
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Lurdiak posted:I'm not fanboying out for poo poo, I'm reacting to an idiot thinking his stupid lovely opinion was worth more than a one sentence middle finger. I pose the same question to you. Why was your opinion worth three paragraphs? You posted it like we were supposed to care about it, but I didn't see you prove out why your opinion deserved more than one sentence
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Aug 2, 2016 15:36
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Franchescanado posted:Thank you for agreeing with me and admitting you were wrong, it takes a big person to admit defeat. The Killing Joke isn't a very good superhero story, or really a good story. It's not even a good "PoMO" "non-superhero" story. It's obscured by the characters of Batman and Joker, when characters are just devices to tell the story. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Aug 2, 2016 |
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Aug 2, 2016 15:37
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DrProsek posted:I pose the same question to you. Why was your opinion worth three paragraphs? You posted it like we were supposed to care about it, but I didn't see you prove out why your opinion deserved more than one sentence Why do any of us post on forums when we could all keep our thoughts to ourselves. Really makes you think.
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Aug 2, 2016 15:38
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Lurdiak posted:I'm sorry that I don't see the value in endlessly ranting about something, especially when my entire angle on that thing is asinine and clearly motivated by fanboyism of a lovely character. I don't like Barbara Gordon as Batgirl at all and while I did like her as Oracle she wasn't in my top 10 favorite characters. So maybe you shouldn't be making assumptions about that. But instead, as always, you hop to assumptions that the only person who can have any opinion on something is fanboying. Lurdiak posted:ImpAtom was repeatedly saying the book was poorly written, and got really upset that I disagreed without writing a novel. I don't mind if people criticize the book, I'm not married to it. I enjoy how you ignored the multiple times I said the majority of the story was well written, just not Barbara Gordon's segment of it. It is in fact possible to criticize a part of a story without going "the entire thing is worthless trash" and I literally defended Killing Joke in the previous thread as being a good story despite the Barbara Gordon segments against people who were actually calling it irredeemable trash. As usually, Lurdiak, you just wanted to shitpost and run and in doing so you decided without actually reading anything that I was someone talking about how terrible and awful Killing Joke is and how it's the worst story ever. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Aug 2, 2016 |
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Aug 2, 2016 15:39
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ImpAtom posted:As usually, Lurdiak, you just wanted to shitpost and run and in doing so you decided without actually reading anything that I was someone talking about how terrible and awful Killing Joke is and how it's the worst story ever. It's interesting that you decided to get mad and insult me and declare I was "shitposting and running" when I didn't even quote you in my initial post. I just said "Killing Joke isn't bad" and you called that a shitpost and declared me the worst! poster! ever! And I'm supposed to be the one with a reading problem?
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Aug 2, 2016 15:46
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Lurdiak posted:I'm not fanboying out for poo poo, I'm reacting to an idiot thinking his stupid lovely opinion was worth more than a one sentence middle finger. If I can't be smug while replying to someone who throws a fit about how people disagreeing with him must be bad posters, I don't know when I can be. That is the definition of fanboying. You got offended someone didn't think a story you like is perfect and responded in a juvenile whiny way.
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Aug 2, 2016 15:48
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Lurdiak posted:It's interesting that you decided to get mad and insult me and declare I was "shitposting and running" when I didn't even quote you in my initial post. I just said "Killing Joke isn't bad" and you called that a shitpost and declared me the worst! poster! ever! And I'm supposed to be the one with a reading problem? We are on an internet forum where your previous posts can be directly linked you know. Lurdiak posted:You can't make Killing Joke badly written just by repeating the lie often enough. Unless you were talking to someone who literally wasn't posting you were responding to a conversation that literally involved me responding to Kurzon with one post from Franchescanado which mentions nothing about bad writing. So trying to go "no, no, I wasn't talking to you, how funny you assume that?" is dumb. It's genuinely lovely to call someone a liar because they dared to criticize a book you like in any way, shape or form, and doubly lovely to assume it is because they hate the entire book and are lying to make it look bad or something. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Aug 2, 2016 |
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Aug 2, 2016 15:51
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Lurdiak posted:Why do any of us post on forums when we could all keep our thoughts to ourselves. Really makes you think. Lurdiak says, with no self awareness.
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Aug 2, 2016 15:52
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Aug 2, 2016 15:53
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Is this the "superhero action" you crave in your comics?
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Aug 2, 2016 15:55
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CharlestheHammer posted:That is the definition of fanboying. You got offended someone didn't think a story you like is perfect and responded in a juvenile whiny way. Well, I guess you can apply death of the author to forum posts, and I can't stop you. ImpAtom posted:We are on an internet forum where your previous posts can be directly linked you know. I was responding to more or less the entire page the conversation was happening on.
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Aug 2, 2016 15:57
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CharlestheHammer posted:That is the definition of fanboying. You got offended someone didn't think a story you like is perfect and responded in a juvenile whiny way. Somethings wrong with him
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Aug 2, 2016 16:00
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Lurdiak posted:I was responding to more or less the entire page the conversation was happening on. ... The only other post about TKJ on that page was D_T's review of the movie.
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Aug 2, 2016 16:00
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ImpAtom posted:... The only other post about TKJ on that page was D_T's review of the movie. No it isn't?
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Aug 2, 2016 16:03
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Lurdiak posted:Well, I guess you can apply death of the author to forum posts, and I can't stop you. This isn't a book and posters can and do lie all the time so don't be dense.
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Aug 2, 2016 16:04
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CharlestheHammer posted:This isn't a book and posters can and do lie all the time so don't be dense. I was referring to how you were applying non-existent intent to my post. This argument is starting to go in circles.
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Aug 2, 2016 16:05
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Lurdiak posted:I was referring to how you were applying non-existent intent to my post. I don't really understand the hate either, Lurdiak. You took the minimal approach when there are actual bad and stupid opinions being thrown in this thread left and right.
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Aug 2, 2016 16:10
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Franchescanado posted:I don't really understand the hate either, Lurdiak. You took the minimal approach when there are actual bad and stupid opinions being thrown in this thread left and right. I guess it's just "poo poo on Lurdiak to make ourselves feel better" time, again. I'm used to it.
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Aug 2, 2016 16:11
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Lurdiak posted:I guess it's just "poo poo on Lurdiak to make ourselves feel better" time, again. I'm used to it. I got your back, bro. You doing Scream Stream again this year? How far in advance do you plan that poo poo?
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Aug 2, 2016 16:12
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Lurdiak posted:I'm not fanboying out for poo poo, I'm reacting to an idiot thinking his stupid lovely opinion was worth more than a one sentence middle finger. If I can't be smug while replying to someone who throws a fit about how people disagreeing with him must be bad posters, I don't know when I can be. U MAD? heh  I'm kind of wondering why Valiant comics never made a push into bad 90s SatAm stuff. Seems like their storytelling would be a natural for it. X-O Manowar would be the barbaric fish out of water. Ninjak is the Gambit-like smooth-talking rogue. Rai is your Wolverine, Bloodshot your Punisher type. Malibu did it, why not Valiant?
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Aug 2, 2016 16:15
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Franchescanado posted:I got your back, bro. Of course I'm doing it again! I've got a theme planned and some of the lineup set up based on that, but it's not set in stone and I've still got plenty of research to do. I usually have to stop myself from planning it TOO far in advance, cuz if I get everything ready in like July that leaves me chomping at the bit for months. I'll make a thread as usual in October. FilthyImp posted:Hey Lurdy... Sometimes... Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Aug 2, 2016 |
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Aug 2, 2016 16:16
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Lurdiak posted:I guess it's just "poo poo on Lurdiak to make ourselves feel better" time, again. I'm used to it. Hahahahaha
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Aug 2, 2016 16:18
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Lurdiak posted:Of course I'm doing it again! I've got a theme planned and some of the lineup set up based on that, but it's not set in stone and I've still got plenty of research to do. I usually have to stop myself from planning it TOO far in advance, cuz if I get everything ready in like July that leaves me chomping at the bit for months. I'll make a thread as usual in October. Righteous. I'll probably make the October Horror Movie Challenge thread in late September again and link it.
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Aug 2, 2016 16:20
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Lurdiak posted:No it isn't? Unless you're referring to after your post then yes. People are discussing The Dark Knight (including yourself), D_T makes his review post and then Kurzon asks about why people criticize the TKJ. If you're referring to after your post then thank you for posting on our forums Booster Gold. " Even if you go back to the previous page I can't find a single example of someone calling TKJ badly written as a whole, just criticism of Barbara Gordon's treatment as a character. I snapped at you and I probably shouldn't have but at bare minimum I think you have to recognize the difference between "The Killing Joke isn't bad" and calling people a liar.
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Aug 2, 2016 16:34
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Lurdiak posted:I guess it's just "poo poo on Lurdiak to make ourselves feel better" time, again. I'm used to it. It's almost as if people reacted to a lovely post you made. Imagine a world where you didn't make lovely posts and no one shat on you for it. I'm not even trying to dog pile here dude. You literally flipped out and started swearing and name calling because you got mad that someone called you out on a kind of lovely post. Maybe instead of getting used to it, you should look inward and realize that maybe the problem is something you are doing wrong, if it is happening that often. Or don't' and get poo poo on. Either way don't whine about. No one forces you to post.
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Aug 2, 2016 16:39
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ImpAtom posted:I snapped at you and I probably shouldn't have but at bare minimum I think you have to recognize the difference between "The Killing Joke isn't bad" and calling people a liar. Yeah I guess I coulda been less snippy too. Waking up after a lovely night's sleep to being called "the worst poster on the forum" is a bad way to start the day. ToastyPotato posted:It's almost as if people reacted to a lovely post you made. Imagine a world where you didn't make lovely posts and no one shat on you for it. I'm not even trying to dog pile here dude. You literally flipped out and started swearing and name calling because you got mad that someone called you out on a kind of lovely post. Maybe instead of getting used to it, you should look inward and realize that maybe the problem is something you are doing wrong, if it is happening that often. Or don't' and get poo poo on. Either way don't whine about. No one forces you to post. I'm not even dogpiling *proceeds to dogpile*
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Aug 2, 2016 16:41
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Lurdiak posted:Yeah I guess I coulda been less snippy too. Waking up after a lovely night's sleep to being called "the worst poster on the forum" is a bad way to start the day. Yeah, I apologize. That was seriously unfair and lovely of me and I shouldn't have done it. I really am sorry.
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Aug 2, 2016 16:44
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Lurdiak posted:Yeah I guess I coulda been less snippy too. Waking up after a lovely night's sleep to being called "the worst poster on the forum" is a bad way to start the day. Dogpiling probably would have been just making fun of you. Which I didn't really do. Just pointing out that you over reacted and then wanted to act like some innocent victim. Kurzon posted:Well, I'm glad you don't read newspapers because lovely things like what happens to Barbara happens all the time. People hate on Alan Moore the same way people hate on God for letting bad things happen to people who don't deserve it. People were pretty mad about the Sansa thing because it didn't happen in the books apparently. I'm not sure what "it happens in the real world: has to do with anything we are discussing. Neither Game of Thrones nor Batman are the real world, so writers choosing to use women as nothing but emotional props for male characters is problematic and no one's fault but their own.
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Aug 2, 2016 16:46
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Lurdiak posted:I was referring to how you were applying non-existent intent to my post. I know what you were trying to say, it was dumb was my point.
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Aug 2, 2016 16:52
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Mods, please close this thread, it's a disgrace. I've seen YouTube threads with more civility and insightful debate.
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Aug 2, 2016 17:43
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I have been nothing but civil and insightful, you piece of poo poo.
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Aug 2, 2016 17:47
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