|
But isn't learning why a character is who they are the biggest pull of a piece of media? I think it is unreasonable to not want to follow an unpleasant person in a piece of media so long as that person isn't boring. If their actions are consistent and a good enough pace is kept, so long as it's not glorifying those unpleasant traits. Grisaia is good because Yuuji is interesting. The Labyrinth of Grisaia is bad because it's hamfisted delivery explaining why Yuuji is that specific brand of interesting.
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2016 23:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 12:59 |
|
|
Even though I hated the S;G main character at first they actually do a pretty good job of showing you that he's actually a good person who is just an awkward weirdo and also giving understandable reasons that the girls would come to like him instead of just being magically attracted to him
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2016 23:09
|
|
|
Stefan Prodan posted:Even though I hated the S;G main character at first they actually do a pretty good job of showing you that he's actually a good person who is just an awkward weirdo and also giving understandable reasons that the girls would come to like him instead of just being magically attracted to him He's also hammy as gently caress (especially in the anime) so even when he's being kind of a dick it's still entertaining to watch.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2016 23:21
|
|
|
I just don't care much for the awkward male virgin stereotype that chaos head and a lot of harem anime seems to go for. They're just not interesting characters to me. They're so pathetic and self-defeating that I can't even give a drat. I mean not to accuse anyone who likes that sort of thing, but they're pretty much designed to cater to male fantasies about being alpha male without actually having to put in any of the effort to be alpha male. It's like the anime equivalent of Twilight and 50 Shades for lonely ladies.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2016 23:33
|
|
|
It can be good if the game realizes the character is a jerk and takes steps to humanize or develop them. I felt like Fata Morgana did it pretty well. It's different if it's not acknowledged by the game and you're just expected to treat their actions as cool and good though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2016 23:33
|
|
|
I certainly prefer them to bland-o self insert, like most dating sims have. Clannad definitely feels like that when compared to how good the main character is in the anime.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2016 23:44
|
|
|
Irony Be My Shield posted:It can be good if the game realizes the character is a jerk and takes steps to humanize or develop them. I felt like Fata Morgana did it pretty well. It's different if it's not acknowledged by the game and you're just expected to treat their actions as cool and good though. I don't think that necessarily helps (or is the problem to begin with); the annoying self-pity is a large part of it. But I also think Nate RFB was right and that people keep going back to the chaos;head protagonist because there is nothing else memorable in the game.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2016 23:44
|
|
|
Stefan Prodan posted:Even though I hated the S;G main character at first they actually do a pretty good job of showing you that he's actually a good person who is just an awkward weirdo and also giving understandable reasons that the girls would come to like him instead of just being magically attracted to him I think it's a risky bet to have an unpleasant protagonist, even if there is some underlying why though. There's enough VNs out there where the main character's an unlikeable dick "just because," to the point where I just assume in general there isn't any reason for it, to the point where that pull of learning why a character acts the way they do is weakened. It's usually easier to just assume bad writing, unless there's something else entertaining or compelling about them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2016 23:47
|
|
|
HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:I certainly prefer them to bland-o self insert, like most dating sims have. Clannad definitely feels like that when compared to how good the main character is in the anime. Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Jul 30, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2016 00:46
|
|
|
the key in enjoying an unpleasant main character is whether the writer realizes theyre unpleasant if they do, they typically provide some reason the character is that way, or compensate for it through making them funny or ridiculous, or making the other characters react in entertaining ways, or just making it an actual character flaw that comes up sometimes. if they dont it gets annoying at best and unbearable at worst when the world warps to accomodate an rear end in a top hat being an rear end in a top hat because the writer thinks they're in the right
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2016 01:15
|
|
|
Stexils posted:the key in enjoying an unpleasant main character is whether the writer realizes theyre unpleasant That's actually a really good way of putting it. I agree with this.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2016 01:21
|
|
|
Even at his worst Okabe was never actually that bad though. It was pretty clear that he didn't actually mean any of the poo poo he says, beyond the stuff which is just fact like lab coats being the coolest outfits. Like I don't remember him ever being really unpleasant to anyone except maybe Ruka but that whole plotline was kind of weird outside of bad ends.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2016 03:40
|
|
|
yeah okabe is a total goober but he's never mean or spiteful about it. all his arguing with kurisu is just good natured banter and he's nice to everyone else. that's kinda what gets me about the whole unpleasant or heavily flawed protagonist thing. To go back to Grisaia, even though the game acknowledges Yuuji is a weirdo, and the game explicitly calls him out of his weird attitudes towards women, it doesn't change that him going 'heh, women' after a comedy scene kind of stops any of my laughter dead in its tracks. And with Chaos;head, even though the game is hyper aware that the protagonist is a jackass, it doesn't change the fact that he isn't a super fun or interesting character to spend time with, especially as the story goes on and he has to be sympathetic in some ways. it's one thing if the protagonist is a jackass, has weird morals or lines of thinking, or just isn't a decent person, but it's another thing if the protagonist is flatout unpleasant to spend any amount of time with. Especially in visual novels, where they're usually dozens of hours long and are 50% conversations about nothing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2016 03:45
|
|
|
Huh, I guess they didn't translate the medical dictionary that was included in the original version of Nurse Love Addiction. It helped in the first game being able to actually look up all the medical terminology and have it explained in plain words, but I guess I can see why a translation company wouldn't want to spend the time necessary to actually translate a huge list of medical terms. Would've been nice. Edit: I wonder if the feedback for the first game was 'this was nice but yuri gamers can't really relate to a try-hard main character so please make the next protagonist lack any discernible positive qualities aside from being attractive to other girls' Getsuya fucked around with this message at 12:27 on Aug 1, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2016 12:22
|
|
|
Getsuya posted:Edit: I wonder if the feedback for the first game was 'this was nice but yuri gamers can't really relate to a try-hard main character so please make the next protagonist lack any discernible positive qualities aside from being attractive to other girls'
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2016 12:32
|
|
|
Japanese neckbeards and the 10 women who don't like BL (edit: I should point out that I am a yuri gamer myself and was mostly just hypothesizing about some kind of marketing move that made them have a main character so completely worse than the one from the 1st game this time around) Getsuya fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Aug 1, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2016 12:36
|
|
|
Wrong answer. Thanks for playing. Please don't post again.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2016 12:48
|
|
|
Sorry for joking around from now on I will be dead serious when referring to people who play a certain type of game that I myself enjoy playing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2016 13:02
|
|
|
yes, thank you. i would appreciate exactly that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2016 13:03
|
|
|
everybody take five, maybe get a water.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2016 13:17
|
|
|
LOVE LOVE SKELETON posted:everybody take five, maybe get a water. do you have any dr p
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2016 22:44
|
|
|
LOVE LOVE SKELETON posted:everybody take five, maybe get a water. Would you like to save? >YES NO
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2016 03:43
|
|
|
Slur posted:Would you like to save? Understood. Now returning to the investigation.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2016 11:42
|
|
|
I like yuri
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2016 13:52
|
|
|
Junpei Hyde posted:I like yuri I personally don't. Most of the characters he voices gets on my nerves.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2016 15:32
|
|
|
So, Rock Paper Shotgun had a fairly new writer review Muv Luv. They absolutely panned it and highlighted the lacrosse as a high point.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2016 19:08
|
|
|
muv-luv is a super uneven game and there's a lot to criticize about it but also parts of the article just seem like the reviewer trying way too hard to get up on a high horse
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2016 19:30
|
|
|
Endorph posted:muv-luv is a super uneven game and there's a lot to criticize about it but also parts of the article just seem like the reviewer trying way too hard to get up on a high horse 
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2016 19:37
|
|
|
Endorph posted:muv-luv is a super uneven game and there's a lot to criticize about it but also parts of the article just seem like the reviewer trying way too hard to get up on a high horse It is, and a lot of the criticisms levied against it I'd agree with. But noting lacrosse as one of the highest points is hilarious to me, since that's the only part I skipped through.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2016 20:19
|
|
|
i pretty much agree with the article, the first two games are only worth reading as "the prelude to alternative." the school slice of life is just dull, the military sci fi is better but doesnt really make use of its premise nearly as much as it could, and as the article writer notes everything is really predictable also takerou is incredibly unlikable in the school story, he's a super boring character and treats everyone terribly. the earlier discussion of likable/unlikable characters applies perfectly to him, theres no reason whatsoever for the characters to be attracted to him at all. the sci fi story is better in large part because other characters (who have been living in an apocalyptic setting) actually start calling him out on his immaturity and entitlement and he starts growing up somewhat
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2016 21:29
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2016 21:34
|
|
|
Yeah the 2nd is way better but it kinda ends right as I thought it was getting going I don't want to get any more specific but basically there were some cool scenes towards the end where I was like ok yeah it's getting going then it never really did anything with it in that game Still haven't played 3 yet but I put it off long enough already that I figured I might as well wait and pay for the good translation now
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2016 21:58
|
|
|
Stefan Prodan posted:Yeah the 2nd is way better but it kinda ends right as I thought it was getting going it being all ages will also be a significant improvement
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2016 22:05
|
|
|
Yeah, there's supposedly one H-scene in Alternative that people say is like  or something?Maybe someone can just spoil it for me after I play the game
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2016 22:07
|
|
|
It will still be there, apparently, just with altered CGs and maybe less explicit language?
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2016 22:13
|
|
|
its bad.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2016 22:13
|
|
|
Most of the criticism of Extra is definitely fair, though honestly on the reread it wasn't as bad as I'd built it up to be in my head. Extra on its own definitely wouldn't be worth anyone's time. Unlimited retreading the same character arcs is also a definite minus. But treating lacrosse as the high point is just absurd. As for the h-scene? With how explicit they've been about what is happening despite being all ages I think they'll get the point across.
Desuwa fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Aug 2, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2016 22:17
|
|
|
Did anyone actually like the original Muv-Luv particularly? I thought all the excitement was for the sequel.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2016 22:32
|
|
|
I thought Extra was pretty funny yet dull, but Unlimited was legitimately great and I really enjoyed that as its own story.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2016 22:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 12:59 |
|
|
Yeah, Muv-Luv was some kind of Spec Ops-esque bait-and-switch where they released a cheesy dating game that maybe had a couple good moments, but could be succinctly described as "Do you like this sort of thing a lot? Then you'll find this one mediocre!" and then the second part was way better, and then the long-delayed third part was even better than that. Like a wet fart that transforms into a flute solo.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2016 22:46
|
|
