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Nuns with Guns posted:I think all of those quotes all come from the original discussion of Zak back in the grogs.txt thread that pulled Zak onto SA to begin with. Which happened like over a year before Zak's blog post. So that should tell you something about how long those comments lingered in Zak's mind. inklesspen posted:The author of Red and Pleasant Land made a blog post where he listed me personally as one of his Salieris. His 36 Salieris, all of whom are "psychotic" and "sociopaths". So, you know, gently caress him.
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Aug 1, 2016 14:51
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I wouldn't conflate Zak's vileness with mental illness. Dude just seems like a straight up bad person. E: new thread title is great
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Aug 1, 2016 15:04
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Slimnoid posted:More that they deadnamed the person, which is a pretty big loving no-no. Referring to a trans person by the name their parents/guardians assigned them is a big faux pas, but in some contexts it's forgiveable. If you're not too familiar with the rules of polite behaviour regarding trans people, you might make that mistake, especially if you're listing every name a person has used online for because you think you've been targeted for harassment by someone using a lot of pseudonyms and want to lift the curtain on their behaviour. If one, in such a situation, refers to a trans person by their assigned name, it's not unreasonable to expect people to find it in their hearts to forgive them. If they apologize. It's significantly harder to argue that we should forgive them when their reaction to being told that deadnaming and/or outing a trans person is not OK is not to apologize, but instead talk about how all this talk about this supposed trans person being outed and/or deadnamed is just a cynical attempt to draw attention away from the real LGBT people being harmed here, Zak and Mandy. Playing what I really can only term "the LGBT card" to hide their own transphobic behaviour? That's bordering on unforgivable. Hell, I'd forgive that too if someone sought forgiveness, but I don't think people who run attack blogs where they call a trans woman a "grotesque" "fraud" are looking for forgiveness in the first place.
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Aug 1, 2016 15:54
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LatwPIAT posted:Referring to a trans person by the name their parents/guardians assigned them is a big faux pas, but in some contexts it's forgiveable. If you're not too familiar with the rules of polite behaviour regarding trans people, you might make that mistake, especially if you're listing every name a person has used online for because you think you've been targeted for harassment by someone using a lot of pseudonyms and want to lift the curtain on their behaviour. If one, in such a situation, refers to a trans person by their assigned name, it's not unreasonable to expect people to find it in their hearts to forgive them. Mandy gets around apologizing by calling people "trolls," who as we all know in Zak-land are sub-human filth who harass and lie and throw libel at people all day long. This is different from Zak's behavior because
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Aug 1, 2016 16:14
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LatwPIAT posted:Referring to a trans person by the name their parents/guardians assigned them is a big faux pas, but in some contexts it's forgiveable. If you're not too familiar with the rules of polite behaviour regarding trans people, you might make that mistake, especially if you're listing every name a person has used online for because you think you've been targeted for harassment by someone using a lot of pseudonyms and want to lift the curtain on their behaviour. If one, in such a situation, refers to a trans person by their assigned name, it's not unreasonable to expect people to find it in their hearts to forgive them. The narrative being pushed now is the one set up by seebs, I think. Which starts out about the same with not knowing about who is or isn't trans and how it might be an understandable mistake if you think they use a lot of pseudonyms. But then seebs deflected any blame for the outing back on the victim/the victim's allies by saying it's their fault if a person gets outed. The implication being that it was a missable mistake that only became an outing when everyone pointed it out. (Or if you're of the more  persuasion that it was a deliberate gotcha.) Which was clever, really, for the way it blamed the victims of an outing while also dodging any apologies for any mistake.
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Aug 1, 2016 16:51
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Nuns with Guns posted:The narrative being pushed now is the one set up by seebs, I think. Which starts out about the same with not knowing about who is or isn't trans and how it might be an understandable mistake if you think they use a lot of pseudonyms. But then seebs deflected any blame for the outing back on the victim/the victim's allies by saying it's their fault if a person gets outed. The implication being that it was a missable mistake that only became an outing when everyone pointed it out. (Or if you're of the more Oh god, seebs. Speaking of people who use progressive language to defend regressive and hateful things and hide behind trans friends to excuse transphobia. Are they still around defending Zak for everything he's done? Also, this was linked in IRC last night (by Nuns, actually), but it's a great response to Mark's actions and words here.
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Aug 1, 2016 16:57
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Halloween Jack posted:Zak will also quote very old SA posts from conversations he wasn't a part of, and that weren't even about him, as evidence of the conspiracy against him. Because he's nuts. I got cited as a conspirator in the one that lead to the GBS mock thread. At some point he dredged the archives, and found a post where I said his girlfriend(?) wasn't using a word right. The photo link had died, so he had absolutely no frame of reference or context. It was an image macro where she was making sexy faces and possibly licking some dice. She's captioned it "GROGNARD." I actually remember this; it was hilarious that anyone would caption their cam-girl photo with bragging to be a grognard. Although in retrospect yeah, they were the kind of people who belonged in g.txt after all.
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Aug 1, 2016 16:58
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Roland Jones posted:Oh god, seebs. Speaking of people who use progressive language to defend regressive and hateful things and hide behind trans friends to excuse transphobia. Are they still around defending Zak for everything he's done? This is a pretty great read. I completely missed him asking for us to wait a year before deciding if he was in the right or not.
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Aug 1, 2016 17:11
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Kurieg posted:This is a pretty great read. I completely missed him asking for us to wait a year before deciding if he was in the right or not. Yeah, he did that in the comments of his G+ post for the non-apology FAQ. moths posted:I got cited as a conspirator in the one that lead to the GBS mock thread. GBS mock thread?
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Aug 1, 2016 17:16
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Kurieg posted:This is a pretty great read. I completely missed him asking for us to wait a year before deciding if he was in the right or not. It was in the comments of Mark's G+ posting of the FAWA. That was pretty much the point where I stopped giving him the benefit of any doubt. e: and of course I'm too late to cancel my Patreon pledge for last month. Figures. Evil Mastermind fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Aug 1, 2016 |
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Aug 1, 2016 17:23
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Roland Jones posted:GBS mock thread? Oh Jesus, that was a fantastic thing. Basically GBS found out about his raging hate-on for us. It's one of the few times he's publicly had his internet rear end handed to him. GBS went full GBS, and you almost felt bad for him getting a dose. Almost.
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Aug 1, 2016 17:45
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moths posted:Oh Jesus, that was a fantastic thing. Basically GBS found out about his raging hate-on for us. As I recall it was in the middle of the worst of GamerGate's horseshit too, so all of the pro-GG anti-SJW assholes in GBS went way past any appropriate line and gave him validation and "proof" that SA/TG were worse than the poo poo he was accused of and defending. Viscerally satisfying but ultimately I think counterproductive.
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Aug 1, 2016 17:52
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Yeah all it really accomplished is having Zak redouble harassment on people who didn't even post in the threads.
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Aug 1, 2016 18:04
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My recollection of the GBS thing is that Mandy made a conspiracy post about SA, and then GBS responded by screaming expletives at her for a week or two. Not really anything to crow about even if you couch it in "it's bad but if it has to happen…"
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Aug 1, 2016 18:49
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I'm kind of two minds on it. I think some posters decided that Mandy was a sort of "viable outlet for misogyny," and that was disgusting. But the Zak stuff stopped short of pulling the poo poo he routinely does. I don't know what's best. You're supposed to stand up to bullies, but when it's a bully who pretends to be a victim? The optics get confusing. E: It was also a unique event in that his antics were exposed to (and ridiculed by) non-gamer "regular people" who gave no fucks about his OSR persecution narrative. His default deflection had no traction. moths fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Aug 2, 2016 |
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Aug 1, 2016 19:24
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Oh btw, the comments for Mark's non-apology have been closed so that they can "focus on prepping for Gencon," but don't worry, they'll "continue to listen to the conversation as it takes place on other forums. Thanks!"
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Aug 2, 2016 09:19
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moths posted:Oh Jesus, that was a fantastic thing. Basically GBS found out about his raging hate-on for us. Well you can't rightly say something like that without providing a link.
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Aug 2, 2016 09:30
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Kai Tave posted:Oh btw, the comments for Mark's non-apology have been closed so that they can "focus on prepping for Gencon," but don't worry, they'll "continue to listen to the conversation as it takes place on other forums. Thanks!" Mark just keeps proving that he doesn't really give a drat about the people he's hurt or the victims of abuse in the community. What a bastard; first he calls out the victims and their supporters for not being polite enough while ignoring the abuse that caused their anger, then he makes a self-aggrandizing non-apology, then he tells his critics (including those suffering harassment right now) to wait months or even a year, and now he's basically saying "well I'd love to hear all your concerns but I'm busy so shut up". What an utter bastard. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 10:11 on Aug 2, 2016 |
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Aug 2, 2016 10:03
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Halloween Jack posted:Zak will also quote very old SA posts from conversations he wasn't a part of, and that weren't even about him, as evidence of the conspiracy against him. Because he's nuts. No, he isn't. HJ, I don't want to pick on you specifically, but this is really pissing me off. I'm a game designer, and I'm nuts. Z is the kind of human being who should've been a stain in his dad's sock, someone who couldn't pass the Voight-Kampff test if he wrote the answers on his hand. Saying he's nuts is either excusing his behaviour as being something not under his control (when he hasn't claimed that), or implicitly sticking him in the same box as myself and others who, y'know, have developed coping mechanisms so that whatever affects us doesn't bleed out to affect other people and thus tarring us with the "could become like Z" brush. So please, everyone, don't call him nuts or crazy or anything like that. He knows full well what he's doing, and is even more deserving of hate because of it.
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Aug 2, 2016 11:46
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Well, one good thing that happened is that Brendan G. Conway was very kind and understanding when I asked for a refund on Masks and provided it very quickly. Very professional guy. I'd gladly do business with him in the future without Truman in the picture.
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Aug 2, 2016 11:47
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Terrible Opinions posted:Well you can't rightly say something like that without providing a link. You really don't need to see GBS harass a chronically ill woman, it's not actually that funny and it completely vindicated Mandy and Zak because they did receive a lot of harassment for it and turned that back onto their prior targets. Zak is awful but saying he deserved it also feeds back into his entire take on everything that happened that TG is a hive of people who want to irrationally destroy him DigitalRaven posted:No, he isn't. HJ, I don't want to pick on you specifically, but this is really pissing me off. calling him indistinguishable from a replicant is pretty weird too, you know Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 12:02 on Aug 2, 2016 |
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Aug 2, 2016 12:00
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Eh I find arguments between idiots on the internet, and was hoping for something like hbomb's videos making fun of internet "rationists". If it got real creepy, then my bad.
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Aug 2, 2016 12:14
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Terrible Opinions posted:Eh I find arguments between idiots on the internet, and was hoping for something like hbomb's videos making fun of internet "rationists". If it got real creepy, then my bad. It was GBS, duder. Pretty sure right after they decided to 'detumblr the forums' and everything really went to poo poo.
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Aug 2, 2016 12:44
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Kai Tave posted:Oh btw, the comments for Mark's non-apology have been closed so that they can "focus on prepping for Gencon," but don't worry, they'll "continue to listen to the conversation as it takes place on other forums. Thanks!" Of loving course he did.
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Aug 2, 2016 13:16
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Caedar posted:Can confirm that Rob is one of the nicest people ever. Mark too; they're both friends of mine. They're also both great designers and admirable people. I hope the rift doesn't grow too much from this. Caedar posted:He's well aware. That's about all I know. Yo you might want to give your homeboy a heads up on how much he's loving up on all this, and hope he doesn't decide to throw you under the bus, too.
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Aug 2, 2016 16:10
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I wouldn't call the dude who to promote himself decided to go bat for a serial harasser an admirable person.
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Aug 2, 2016 16:45
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Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Aug 25, 2016 |
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Aug 2, 2016 19:01
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Lightning Lord posted:I get people who are only aware of the Z Man rough his Gravity's Rainbow book and have heard something vague about internet nerds giving his sick girlfriend poo poo or actual friends of his like Patrick Stuart or scrap princess defending him. What I don't get is a game designer who has never been associated with him injecting himself into the issue under the guise of unity, using a friend as a sacrifice to boot. Clearly, people not liking someone is clearly evidence of some grand conspiracy theory against Pre-2nd Edition D&D Likers, who are obviously all a unified tribe who like each other very much. Even if this was his belief before all this, Truman has to be aware of how flawed that is by now. Yet he continues to stumble around like a fool. He'd have gotten better results if his apology was quoting himself and posting a video of Homer Simpson going doh. Wait is Patrick Stuart just a random name you threw in there or does that serial harasser and abusive monster actually have serious, legitimate celebrities defending him? If the latter, just... Ugh. Everything is poo poo. Edit: Wait I'm thinking of Patrick Stewart; been up all night so I'm out of it. Okay, barring a typo things aren't as poo poo as I thought. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Aug 2, 2016 |
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Aug 2, 2016 19:38
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Roland Jones posted:Wait is Patrick Stuart just a random name you threw in there or does that serial harasser and abusive monster actually have serious, legitimate celebrities defending him? If the latter, just... Ugh. Everything is poo poo. This Patrick Stuart cowrote Blue Medusa. I assume he is not the beloved comic sketch actor of Unappealing Erotic Cakes fame.
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Aug 2, 2016 19:45
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Roland Jones posted:Wait is Patrick Stuart just a random name you threw in there or does that serial harasser and abusive monster actually have serious, legitimate celebrities defending him? If the latter, just... Ugh. Everything is poo poo. A friend of a friend has that name, and it makes facebook posts interesting.
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Aug 2, 2016 19:45
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Roland Jones posted:Wait is Patrick Stuart just a random name you threw in there or does that serial harasser and abusive monster actually have serious, legitimate celebrities defending him? If the latter, just... Ugh. Everything is poo poo. Patrick Stuart is a game designer who is an IRL friend of the person in question. Patrick Stewart is the captain of the Enterprise (NCC-1701-D)
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Aug 2, 2016 19:46
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Lightning Lord posted:Patrick Stuart is a game designer who is an IRL friend of the person in question. Yeah I realized that and edited it into my post already. Like I said above, did not sleep at all last night. Zak having friends in relatively high places still sucks but at least they aren't that high.
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Aug 2, 2016 19:48
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Roland Jones posted:Wait is Patrick Stuart just a random name you threw in there or does that serial harasser and abusive monster actually have serious, legitimate celebrities defending him? If the latter, just... Ugh. Everything is poo poo. You might be thinking of Patrick Stewart here. No, I'm pretty sure Captain Picard is not down with Z. Afaik Stuart is another OSR person or something. Efb
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Aug 2, 2016 19:52
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This discussion has reminded me that I need to get Beyond the Wall because that game is just lovely  It will be sandwiched between my FAE and Apocalypse World books to cross cross-contaminate it with storygame filth and also upset anyone who likes their books neatly alphabetized
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Aug 2, 2016 20:06
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John Cocking and Peter Williams like dreaded storygames, so Beyond the Wall is in good company there, friendo. Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Aug 2, 2016 |
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Aug 2, 2016 20:36
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Beyond the Wall is already rife with the dreaded Storygame corruption. It has playbooks!
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Aug 2, 2016 20:40
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Nuns with Guns posted:This discussion has reminded me that I need to get Beyond the Wall because that game is just lovely The setup of a game of Beyond the Wall is the best part and is basically a storygame on its own. A storygame prelude to a garden-variety OSR game. I wish those playbooks were attached to something better! It's still neat though and I do not regret getting it.
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Aug 2, 2016 20:42
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Also, Larry MacDougall did art for it. That guy rules. I really should start an RPG art thread.
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Aug 2, 2016 20:44
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Lightning Lord posted:Also, Larry MacDougall did art for it. That guy rules. I really should start an RPG art thread. Doooooooo it. I will post Ramon Perez and Tony DiTerlizzi and Caitlyn Kurilich in there all day.
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Aug 2, 2016 21:10
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potatocubed posted:Doooooooo it. I will post Ramon Perez and Tony DiTerlizzi and Caitlyn Kurilich in there all day. Him, Kent Burles, Kevin Long and John Zeleznik are why anybody cares about Rifts IMO. Kurilich is new to me but her art is pretty drat fabulous, thanks for bringing her up. Always love to find new stuff.
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Aug 2, 2016 21:15
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