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comedyblissoption posted:this is a long article that basically says the same thing in a lot more words and I agree w/ it our ui had interface ButtView and then ButtViewImpl implements ButtView everywhere. i think it was used for mocking. i just threw all that poo poo out and made concrete classes out of everything. mocking still works just fine.
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Aug 3, 2016 08:50
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comedyblissoption posted:you are probably creating absolutely terrible tests oh definitely
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Aug 3, 2016 08:53
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Shaman Linavi posted:i did something like that during an intro to comp sci class, which was in java of course better than the time i sent my religion professor an email about the lolcat bible and the next week she loads it up in class and makes me explain it  also i didn't know that there's java cargo culting around making interfaces for everything. that sounds awful
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Aug 3, 2016 14:04
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JawnV6 posted:remember the days when cs programs were stuck on crusty ol' pascal when the industry was clearly standardizing on java mine switched to pascal in 1998 because the modula-2 compiler they'd been using for years crashed on their new-fangled pentiums.
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Aug 3, 2016 14:10
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JawnV6 posted:remember the days when cs programs were stuck on crusty ol' pascal when the industry was clearly standardizing on java mine was doing the intro classes in C then C++ for forever until switching to python in like 2009
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Aug 3, 2016 14:24
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my language exposure in comp. eng. went c++ -> java -> MIPS assembly -> C -> scheme/prolog/ML lol
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Aug 3, 2016 15:00
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that's like... exactly backwards from what it should have been. also java should have been excised entirely
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Aug 3, 2016 15:01
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comedyblissoption posted:this is a long article that basically says the same thing in a lot more words and I agree w/ it this is a great article because it makes me feel a lot better about how i'm approaching this
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Aug 3, 2016 15:14
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imo the wordy boilerplate of java is a big downside in using it for intro programming modules. would be kind of nice if there was a babby mode that hid the public static void main(getInBiyatch[]) so students could first learn simple statements and control structures, then learn methods, then learn classes
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Aug 3, 2016 15:15
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Lutha Mahtin posted:imo the wordy boilerplate of java is a big downside in using it for intro programming modules. would be kind of nice if there was a babby mode that hid the public static void main(getInBiyatch[]) so students could first learn simple statements and control structures, then learn methods, then learn classes i post this every two weeks http://www.greenfoot.org
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Aug 3, 2016 15:21
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Lutha Mahtin posted:imo the wordy boilerplate of java is a big downside in using it for intro programming modules. would be kind of nice if there was a babby mode that hid the public static void main(getInBiyatch[]) so students could first learn simple statements and control structures, then learn methods, then learn classes processing is kinda like this
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Aug 3, 2016 15:24
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Lutha Mahtin posted:imo the wordy boilerplate of java is a big downside in using it for intro programming modules. would be kind of nice if there was a babby mode that hid the public static void main(getInBiyatch[]) so students could first learn simple statements and control structures, then learn methods, then learn classes Our first year programming classes were taught in python, we didn't do java until 2nd year and beyond. This is the answer
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Aug 3, 2016 15:35
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Lutha Mahtin posted:imo the wordy boilerplate of java is a big downside in using it for intro programming modules. would be kind of nice if there was a babby mode that hid the public static void main(getInBiyatch[]) so students could first learn simple statements and control structures, then learn methods, then learn classes you could use groovylang, as you can do many things extremely similar to java but without all the boilerplate, runs on jvm
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Aug 3, 2016 15:43
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there will be a repl but I don't think it'll help intro students ease into it all. I flip between several languages at work (Java, ruby, golang, Python, very rarely rust) and I enjoy Java the best. people have put in the work to sand off the rough edges and between things like guava, dagger2, sl4j, immutables, dropwizard, easymock etc. everything is p nice to work with, has amazing IDE support, is well documented, and generally does the needful. I would say if we could become a serious rustlang business for the code we currently write in c++ I would be much happier. I choose not to work on those teams specifically because of the language.
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Aug 3, 2016 15:50
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Lutha Mahtin posted:imo the wordy boilerplate of java is a big downside in using it for intro programming modules. would be kind of nice if there was a babby mode that hid the public static void main(getInBiyatch[]) so students could first learn simple statements and control structures, then learn methods, then learn classes we used turbopascal in my high school cs courses and it seemed to be pretty straightforward (granted i wrote a text adventure as a series of 800 methods representing each cell on a map, lol), but i think cs departments like java because it keeps you away from all the undefined behavior fun of c while still teaching you a language that you can actually use in a job after you graduate. my college cs experience went java->nothing but abstract math->fist fight with the department chair/get kicked out of program->years pass->java->java+mips assembly->c->nothing but abstract math im really, really glad i got the compiler course (the java + mips) before i had to do C, because it gave me way more of a loving idea what on earth was happening inside the computer when i was loving around with pointers and function pointers and poo poo. i cant imagine trying to understand the difference between a process and a thread without first having learned how to program a stack machine compiler.
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Aug 3, 2016 15:58
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Lutha Mahtin posted:imo the wordy boilerplate of java is a big downside in using it for intro programming modules. would be kind of nice if there was a babby mode that hid the public static void main(getInBiyatch[]) so students could first learn simple statements and control structures, then learn methods, then learn classes its called python
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Aug 3, 2016 16:00
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i kindly request to hear the fist fight story
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Aug 3, 2016 16:00
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python is terrible and teaching java first is absolutely fine. if your students cant comprehend main as the entry point to the program then they probably aren't gonna make it very far. you don't have to throw OO at them immediately either since you can start with a single class w/ static methods. if you want to obfuscate some of that stuff from them then ok fine but one of the goals of low level cs is to wash out people who aren't gonna be able to grasp later concepts.
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Aug 3, 2016 16:03
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most people taking intro to programming will not take another programming class, so python is fine* now, if we're talking about a CS majors/minors only section then ok, start with java or something edit: *this is probably incredibly school dependent, everyone in engineering at my school was "strongly encouraged" to take the intro programming class along with every math and physics major
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Aug 3, 2016 16:05
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also verbosity is good especially when teaching. java conventions including descriptive naming is one of the biggest strengths of the language.
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Aug 3, 2016 16:06
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hobbesmaster posted:most people taking intro to programming will not take another programming class, so python is fine nah python is bad because its a terrible language and nobody gets anything out of it. java is better for everyone.
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Aug 3, 2016 16:07
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"fist fight with the department chair/get kicked out of program" ummmmmmmmmm
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Aug 3, 2016 16:08
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nobody? the math, physics and other engineers are going to be copy/pasting poo poo into a numpy repl, matlab, mathematica or something so python is a really good deal for them
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Aug 3, 2016 16:09
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poo poo, i was just shaggared
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Aug 3, 2016 16:09
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hobbesmaster posted:nobody? the math, physics and other engineers are going to be copy/pasting poo poo into a numpy repl, matlab, mathematica or something so python is a really good deal for them they can learn to write their garbage code in their garbage code classes. intro to cs should be about stuff that matters.
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Aug 3, 2016 16:11
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w/ java theres atleast a chance, minimal as it is, that math majors learn something about programming.
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Aug 3, 2016 16:12
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well, it'd be nice to have an intro to cs class and an intro to hacking poo poo together to get a computer to do something class. we're probably getting into really school specific stuff now though i'd think
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Aug 3, 2016 16:18
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Barnyard Protein posted:i kindly request to hear the fist fight story its not that interesting. i lifted weights a lot in college (lol, trying to repress my gender identity) and so did the department chair. he super didnt like me because hed say blatantly wrong stuff and i would raise my hand and politely go "i understood <x> to be the case instead, was i mistaken?" and he was the type to take that as an assault on his manhood or some poo poo. anyway, he was in the weightroom at the same time as me and he was doing some bench press. now, you need to have a clear picture of this guy to really understand him. first of all, he's a geologist and not a computer scientist. somehow he was the cs chair anyway, maybe because no one else on faculty knew how to program? his gym attire, every single day, was a pair of classic zubaz pants, a bum equipment sweatshirt with the sides/sleeves cut out, a lot of body hair, a weight belt (that he wore at all times despite never squatting or deadlifting as far as i saw), and a gold chain. hed sometimes wear a sweatband on his head too. serious soupstrainer mustache situation. so, this guy gets down on the bench and has like maybe 150 on there. he unracks the weight in this terrifying manner that actually shakes the bench a bit so that a leg of it popped up and made a thud as it relanded. he then proceeds to do like 20 speedreps with this bar, his whole body shaking throughout. at this point im just watching with mild amusement between deadlift sets. then he gets up and loads the bar with 3 plates per side. after watching his previous production, its clear to me that he is in no way strong enough to bench 315 pounds. i call over "hey, you need a spot?". he just glares at me, the way a little boy might glare at his mom if she asks if someone hurt his feelings. he yells out loudly "*HHHHHAAAAAAAH*", clapping his hands together as hard as he can, practically flings himself onto the bench, does this terrifying unrack motion again, and promptly gets stuck under the bar. its not in imminent danger of killing him yet, so i watch for a couple seconds just wondering if hes doing some silly pause reps type thing. but when it starts to curl out of his fingers, rolling toward his neck, i drop my barbell and run over and pull it off him back onto the rack. just as i was looking up to see if he's ok he yells "gently caress you" and takes a swing at me. i dont know why he did that, literally the week before he'd attended a local amature mma event which i literally competed on and saw him in the crowd at. like, he should know im young and strong and take punches to the face for a hobby. anyway, i duck it, throw a left hook to his body and come up with a right upper cut tyson style, which puts him on his rear end. the gym attendant is watching us at this point so he just kinds of sputters in an incoherent, spittly purple rage and storms out of the gym. the thing is, he started this poo poo unprovoked so he knows he cant press charges, but i was struggling with some of the math stuff in cs and he had just enough of a case to kick me out of the program for academic reasons. jokes on him though because i graduated, got a better cs education at a better school, grew some sweet tits, and make more than he does to chair his little department where he constantly espouses java+opengl as the way forward in immersive 3d content.
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Aug 3, 2016 16:19
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i mean, my school recommended that CS majors take the computers for nontechnical women and children class or whatever it was called of course the real for this is that with junior or senior standing you could TA a class you previously took. at least they started paying undergrad TAs instead of giving worthless credits
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Aug 3, 2016 16:20
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:its not that interesting. i lifted weights a lot in college (lol, trying to repress my gender identity) and so did the department chair. he super didnt like me because hed say blatantly wrong stuff and i would raise my hand and politely go "i understood <x> to be the case instead, was i mistaken?" and he was the type to take that as an assault on his manhood or some poo poo. 
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Aug 3, 2016 16:23
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:its not that interesting. i disagree
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Aug 3, 2016 16:23
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:its not that interesting. i lifted weights a lot in college (lol, trying to repress my gender identity) and so did the department chair. he super didnt like me because hed say blatantly wrong stuff and i would raise my hand and politely go "i understood <x> to be the case instead, was i mistaken?" and he was the type to take that as an assault on his manhood or some poo poo. 
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Aug 3, 2016 16:35
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No intro to programming class should be done in a language without an REPL. Being able to do little bits and see them immediately on the screen is a powerful motivator, and the sooner they have their "The computer does what I say  " moment, the sooner they can have their "The computer does what I say  " moment.Honestly, I would recommend LOGO.
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Aug 3, 2016 16:48
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:its not that interesting. i lifted weights a lot in college (lol, trying to repress my gender identity) and so did the department chair. he super didnt like me because hed say blatantly wrong stuff and i would raise my hand and politely go "i understood <x> to be the case instead, was i mistaken?" and he was the type to take that as an assault on his manhood or some poo poo. 
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Aug 3, 2016 16:50
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Share Bear posted:you could use groovylang, as you can do many things extremely similar to java but without all the boilerplate, runs on jvm Lol, only if you hate your students
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Aug 3, 2016 16:51
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gonadic io posted:Lol, only if you hate your students Things Should Be As Hard As Possible From The Start Because Otherwise Bad Students Will Succeed
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Aug 3, 2016 16:55
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:his gym attire, every single day, was a pair of classic zubaz pants, a bum equipment sweatshirt with the sides/sleeves cut out, a lot of body hair, a weight belt (that he wore at all times despite never squatting or deadlifting as far as i saw), and a gold chain. hed sometimes wear a sweatband on his head too. serious soupstrainer mustache situation. he sounds like a minor Achewood character
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Aug 3, 2016 17:00
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Zemyla posted:No intro to programming class should be done in a language without an REPL. Being able to do little bits and see them immediately on the screen is a powerful motivator, and the sooner they have their "The computer does what I say Erlangs time to shine
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Aug 3, 2016 17:01
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gonadic io posted:Lol, only if you hate your students groovy would definitely be better than python. plus you could write a little webapp to run the groovy scripts for them so they don't need an ide or anything to start.
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Aug 3, 2016 17:01
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Mr Dog posted:Guice is pretty ftw guice is best used sparingly imo when done wrong it just turns a lot of compile time errors into runtime errors
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Aug 3, 2016 17:02
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