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So I've just mainlined like forty god drat pages in this thread with a growing grin on my face. Holy gently caress.Paradoxish posted:Patriotism and nationalism aren't really the same thing, but the problem is that there's like a millimeter thick line that divides the two. Patriotism is Captain America. Nationalism is that time when Captain America went around punching hippies. It's a pretty loving thin line. A Winner is Jew posted:American patriotism was pretty much being happy about the fact that being an american is awesome and being proud of being awesome because we're all awesome together and that's what makes us awesome. That kind of patriotism rules since it's not about being better than anyone else or "right", it's that you're proud of your dumb country and want to chill with your neighbors since they're proud of their dumb country to so lets all be proud that we live in a dumb country together. This as well. But my whole take on American patriotism is basically combining the big dumb over-eagerness of a golden retriever about how awesome we are when we're at our best while also furiously shouting at people to knock that poo poo off when we're at our worse. ImpAtom posted:I guess I don't see how "I am proud to be an American because Americans are inherently better and awesome" is meaningfully different. I would say "I'm proud to be an American because we do (x) thing worth being proud" but not in some inherent meaningless Americanism. The former sounds exactly to me like "we're better and right." YMMV but I don't think patriotism should be a default. I think it should be earned. It's a steady process. Be proud when you're living up to your ideals, correct yourself when you're not. But then I view the whole American Ideal thing in terms closer to the categorical imperative. Your mileage may vary. A Winner is Jew posted:It's more about loving your country than thinking it's #1. Like when I travel overseas I have no problem saying I'm from the US with a sense of pride while still wanting to go visit and experience all that the country I'm visiting has to offer because other countries have cool poo poo that they should be proud of. That's patriotism. One of the funniest things about my recent trip to Europe was everyone being surprised that an American/Texan was always trying to get people to tell me more about their country while also going "yeah, no, we've hosed up in a few spots" on top of showing some basic knowledge of global society and their culture. One of the other funniest things was everyone basically going "oh dear god please don't let Trump be elected please America". That and bullshitting with a Roman cabby about how similar Berlusconi and Trump were. gregday posted:He once cashed a check for 80 cents. I find it hard to give him poo poo for this, since it makes it seem as if he grabbed the check and went all Scrooge McDuck on it and immediately running to cash it as opposed to endorsing it and tossing it on to a pile of checks to be sent to the bank. Yeah, a cashier might have rolled their eyes but who the gently caress cares.
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Aug 4, 2016 05:46
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https://twitter.com/forecasterenten/status/761058678426308609
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Aug 4, 2016 05:56
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can we stop pretending that Pennsylvania is a swing state now
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Aug 4, 2016 05:59
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HorseRenoir posted:can we stop pretending that Pennsylvania is a swing state now People in 2020 will just skip this election because it's going to be such an outlier in like every single state and demographic
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Aug 4, 2016 06:00
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Other interesting notes: Clinton favorability at -2 Trump at -29 (!!!!) Toomey also looks really vulnerable. Also Trump is only getting 27% among women, 9% among nonwhite.
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Aug 4, 2016 06:00
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HorseRenoir posted:can we stop pretending that Pennsylvania is a swing state now B-b-b-b-but NARRATIVE! AND VIEWERS! AND CLICKS! WON'T YOU THINK OF THE CLICKS?
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Aug 4, 2016 06:00
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HorseRenoir posted:can we stop pretending that Pennsylvania is a swing state now The time to do this was 2008, I think. Colorado, too. The only reason either have been considered swing states is to push the horse race narrative instead of admitting that the Dems have a structural advantage in the Presidential race.
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Aug 4, 2016 06:02
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The spin could get interesting, tho "New poll shows Senator Cruz outperforming expectations with African Americans by 15x" *cut to screenshot showing Cruz polling at 15%*
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Aug 4, 2016 06:02
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Gyges posted:Never wear a US Flag. First it's against flag code, and if you actually cared about Worse than that, his casino was indistinguishable from being a straight-up scam. It's clear that he never intended for anything to be profitable, which is why he put so little of his own money into it and had the business wrack up insane amounts of debt. Trump was basically getting a huge salary and didn't have to deal with the fallout Each and every one of Trump's business ventures has been peak Trump: literally just a scam to rake in money for Trump at the expense of everyone else
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Aug 4, 2016 06:19
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, you'd follow flag code. Second, you'll be confused with the vast majority of people wearing the flag as clothing, who are hateful assholes just waiting for all the minorities to be out of earshot so they can drop some truth bombs on your. Third, and, really, most importantly, it's tacky as poo poo. If you've gotta put that flag on yourself go with a nice, understated flag pin.
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This talk about patriotism and nationalism seems to reflect a view of them as two extremes of one phenomenon, when it's not that one dimensional in reality. Which is worse - nationalists resisting a multi-national colonial empire that is trying to eradicate their distinct language and culture, or patriotic sons of that empire suppressing the nationalist villains by any means? Nationalism and patriotism can both be positive forces, but it's also really easy to taint both with xenophoby, prejudice and militancy.
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Aug 4, 2016 06:23
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Epic High Five posted:The spin could get interesting, tho ? I thought anything x 0 was 0.
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Aug 4, 2016 06:31
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Nenonen posted:Which is worse - nationalists resisting a multi-national colonial empire that is trying to eradicate their distinct language and culture, or patriotic sons of that empire suppressing the nationalist villains by any means? #1 is typically "Foreigners are tainting our pure unmatched language and culture with their dirty foreignness, also taking are jobs" and #2 happens when #1 takes that to the point of violence. Nationalism is never good.
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Aug 4, 2016 06:31
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I just wanted to share this Howard Dean moment from the 2016 DNC because I thought it was a nice self-deprecating moment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKZnbmbm9Z4&t=369s
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Aug 4, 2016 06:46
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Why the gently caress did they ever kick out that dude as DNC chair anyway?
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Aug 4, 2016 06:55
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"Hey this guy who became DNC chair and then we kicked some rear end in the 2006 midterms what do you reckon we should do with him? Fire him? Okay yeah let's fire him." - establishment Dems, apparently
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Aug 4, 2016 06:56
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i miss the days of making a goofy sound was the height of not being suitable to be a leader of a nation.
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Aug 4, 2016 06:57
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Casimir Radon posted:I've heard rumors about Trump abusing diet pills that are similar to amphetamines. Sure would be funny if he gave himself an overdose in the near future. Oh my god with Trump's birther followers and him constantly talking about the system being rigged...If Trump dies anytime between now and the election I can only imagine the conspiracy theories that will spawn.
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Aug 4, 2016 07:00
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Is it just me or did Trump stay relatively sane by his own standards today? I did hear from Joe Scarborough that some military advisor said Trump had asked him more than one time why we can't use nuclear weapons, but that seems to be about the worst thing from today and it didn't actually come directly from Trump's own mouth.
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Aug 4, 2016 07:04
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is it possible to get a hangover from narcissistic supply? maybe that explains it
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Aug 4, 2016 07:06
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Kilroy posted:Why the gently caress did they ever kick out that dude as DNC chair anyway? Obama wasn't a big fan.
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Aug 4, 2016 07:09
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Gyges posted:Never wear a US Flag. First it's against flag code, and if you actually cared about Look I'm just gonna come right out and say it, we need an exception here for flag bikinis.
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Aug 4, 2016 07:09
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paperwind posted:Is it just me or did Trump stay relatively sane by his own standards today? I did hear from Joe Scarborough that some military advisor said Trump had asked him more than one time why we can't use nuclear weapons, but that seems to be about the worst thing from today and it didn't actually come directly from Trump's own mouth. Okay but we don't usually measure someone's insanity by "their own" standards, like we're still talking about a guy who asking whether global nuclear war would be so bad
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Aug 4, 2016 07:09
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Wonky history question: Let's say George HW Bush dies within the next few years. When was the last time a major party had only one current or former president still alive? Late Truman years?
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Aug 4, 2016 07:11
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paperwind posted:Is it just me or did Trump stay relatively sane by his own standards today? I did hear from Joe Scarborough that some military advisor said Trump had asked him more than one time why we can't use nuclear weapons, but that seems to be about the worst thing from today and it didn't actually come directly from Trump's own mouth. It's a metastable transition state. This reactions far from over.
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Aug 4, 2016 07:11
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7e6gLht6OQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr2PtuviAJo
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Aug 4, 2016 07:12
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sarmhan posted:
Holy poo poo.
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Aug 4, 2016 07:15
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This might be a better question for Games, but isn't Trump just channeling Gandhi here? His words are backed with nuclear weapons.
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Aug 4, 2016 07:22
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Aliquid posted:Wonky history question: Let's say George HW Bush dies within the next few years. When was the last time a major party had only one current or former president still alive? Late Truman years? What president are you talking about? Is Nixon still alive? I just checked with CNN and they weren't sure who was president in 2004 but they think it was a Democrat all the way back to '92
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Aug 4, 2016 07:28
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Jazerus posted:The time to do this was 2008, I think. Colorado, too. The only reason either have been considered swing states is to push the horse race narrative instead of admitting that the Dems have a structural advantage in the Presidential race. VA might as well go from swing to lean/safe Dem at this point as well. If/when Dems get a solid grasp on Florida that's the end of the GOP's chances at the White House until the country has a political realignment.
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Aug 4, 2016 07:28
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QuarkJets posted:Okay but we don't usually measure someone's insanity by "their own" standards, like we're still talking about a guy who asking whether global nuclear war would be so bad At least he asked, rather than just reassuring us that he would have the best nuclear war. The 'Trump awards himself Purple Heart' thing is satire, right?
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Aug 4, 2016 07:30
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Gyges posted:Never wear a US Flag. First it's against flag code, and if you actually cared about  Whoa there.
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Aug 4, 2016 07:31
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paperwind posted:Is it just me or did Trump stay relatively sane by his own standards today? I did hear from Joe Scarborough that some military advisor said Trump had asked him more than one time why we can't use nuclear weapons, but that seems to be about the worst thing from today and it didn't actually come directly from Trump's own mouth. It's more that he had a really bad 48 hours or so and now normal Trump antics seem tame by comparison.
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Aug 4, 2016 07:33
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Gyges posted:Never wear a US Flag. First it's against flag code, and if you actually cared about 
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Aug 4, 2016 07:35
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Aliquid posted:Wonky history question: Let's say George HW Bush dies within the next few years. When was the last time a major party had only one current or former president still alive? Late Truman years? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_Presidents_of_the_United_States There was a period during Nixon's term where there were no former presidents alive. This means that Nixon was the only living Republican president during that period of his term and Carter was the only living Democratic president between him taking office and Clinton taking office. Pakled fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 07:38
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Cardboard Box A posted:Flag-themed clothing are not actual US Flags, the same way gold-fringe flags are not, and thus not subject to the flag code. So wear that stars and stripes bikini all you want. Does stars and stripes bikini mean subject to seaman law?
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Aug 4, 2016 07:39
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DemeaninDemon posted:Does stars and stripes bikini mean subject to seaman law?
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Aug 4, 2016 08:02
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Cardboard Box A posted:Only if they have a gold fringe No that's just Trump's jungle pubes.
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Aug 4, 2016 08:03
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Josef bugman posted:Oh, sorry! I hope there is a positive out of this. It always makes me a bit uneasy. Since I don't think you ever got much of an answer for your questions, patriotism/nationalism serve a function, convincing a disperate groups of people that they share something so they'll be more inclined to work towards common goals and collective enterprises like society and government. It usually does this by referencing shared culture and values while establishing some kind of other to be distinguished from. Whether it's good or bad depends on what values you hold and what actions you want your see your country take as an extension of them. Under the Bush years, patriotism was conservative and nationalistic, prioritizing devotion to the state and constantly pointing out 'others' who were a threat to our way of life. Conversely, the DNC defined patriotism as a full-on bear hug of egalitarianism, tolerance, and diversity. And people get excited by that, not because it gets them out accepting the lovely things the US has done, but because they know it's best moments are the product of those values and having that reconfirmed in the national conscious means were striving for them again.
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Aug 4, 2016 08:11
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FAUXTON posted:No that's just Trump's jungle pubes. "Gadsen flag shot away by cannon fire"
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Aug 4, 2016 08:13
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The Lone Badger posted:At least he asked, rather than just reassuring us that he would have the best nuclear war. He didn't award it to himself, he was given it by a veteran at some rally "I always wanted to get the Purple Heart. This was much easier"
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Aug 4, 2016 08:26
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